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Baphomet- not "Satan" oriented

Baphomet- not "Satan" oriented

Postby JohnTitor » Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:01 am

Wasn't sure if this fell into the category of Gnosticism or Satanism- because it relates to both. The Baphomet being used by Satanists as a representation of the Devil or Satan/Lucifer for so many years has clouted the practices and the stigmatized the symbol as evil. I personally have no feelings one way or another as to what others believe or practice. Let ye do what ye shall sort of thing there. I had to find a few sources because my studies are so long in the past that I could definitely not tell you the translations and reasons behind the interpretations of latin and such. My knowledge in that area is rather limited to be fair and honest.
I am however aware to an extent of the misrepresentation of Moses (not the causes) and the relation to the Baphomet. Fun stuff here-

Moses was depicted as horned after a possible misinterpretation of the passage in Exodus 34:29 "And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses knew not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him."
The Vulgate Latin version renders it , "that his face was horned", which has given occasion to painters to represent him as having horns coming out of his forehead; though the word has the signification of an horn, and the meaning of that version, as of others, may only be, that the skin of his face "darted out rays" (r) like horns, such as the rays of the sun appear to be like to the eye, see Habakkuk 3:4 hence Jupiter Ammon, the same with the sun, is described as having horns (s); and so Bacchus, who is supposed to be the same with Moses, is represented as having a horned face"

http://gnosticwarrior.com/who-is-baphomet.html- goes into more detail and follows Amon-Ra/ Ammon/Jupiter Ammon etc...

It kinda falls into the realm of "The Golden Bough," a publication that points out all the similarities and correlations between all religions (current to the date of its publishing) as well as ties them together in a manner that is understandable and insinuates that all religions stem from one core belief or point of origin in history.

I would like to ask that any replies be made after at least reading most of the material on my references. You can skim through it if you want- but I have noticed that when a post is long and detailed, nobody wants to put their two-cents in. I will let you all read the references and the information held within them- as I have done the cross-referencing of many sources and deemed these to be the best sources for my post.
I am no gnostic, but the learning of this was very interesting and warranted research. As with most things this old- one can cast it aside as conspiracy or as all speculation. It also ties in with the Templar teachings to a degree, when you dig deep. I just figured I'd bring up a few things here for discussion to see if anyone has some better sources- and perhaps inform the less informed who are still rooted in modernism (in their infancy in their practice and have yet to learn much of the history of things- is all I mean by that) vs history and mystery teachings. I am friend to all- and look forward to hearing back on this.
Creation is our gift, yet we seek only destruction. We have the ability to achieve greatness and mold our very existence into that which we desire- only to writhe in our perceived notions of existence and preconceived limitations set forth by our predecessors. Let us go forth together and create something wondrous and unique~
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Re: Baphomet- not "Satan" oriented

Postby JohnTitor » Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:05 am

forgot to post my link to biblehub.com. It has so many breakdowns of stories in the bible that to align it to just one thing is rather treacherous to the site itself. they do specifically cover the breakdown of the Cherubim and Moses and Adam and the Serpent in relation to the Baphomet however- this is the link to that- much information held within, but no more than maybe a 30 min read if that.


http://biblehub.com/exodus/34-29.htm

this is another good link-
http://gnosticteachings.org/courses/the ... homet.html
Creation is our gift, yet we seek only destruction. We have the ability to achieve greatness and mold our very existence into that which we desire- only to writhe in our perceived notions of existence and preconceived limitations set forth by our predecessors. Let us go forth together and create something wondrous and unique~
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Re: Baphomet- not "Satan" oriented

Postby cyberdemon » Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:09 pm

This is indeed a huge topic. However, apart from history's sake - and by that I mean real history of the universe - there's no point in looking too deep into it right now. The Events in the map of Eden (which most likely occurred somewhere in the current African server) happened so long ago that unless we spoke to Adam, Eve or even Lucifer (the serpent-form), we can never understand exactly what went down.

Baphomet on the other hand is an another-form. In general, just like the Creative Singularity Of The Administrator has different usernames with different forms, so does The Moderator Of Rebellion.

A better route to understanding is to note that the Moderators (ie. angels / demons / extradimensional-beings) are in charge of maintaining the quantum states of the universe. For example, the calculations of the set up of a star-planet-orbit, maintenance or supervision of star life-cycles, etc. This is why various demons are associated with legions of demons in their office, each with a different office - or thing to look after. Knowledge, chaos, physics, waters, etc. etc.

The Moderator Of Rebellion thus tampered with the Eden Event, as his first action in the new game as started after his challenge to the Administrator (ie. fall of angel).

Again, all this is history. Understanding the Moderators' true nature is far more important to reconnection than revisiting what's happened so long ago that no matter what you do now, what's been done cannot be reversed.
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Re: Baphomet- not "Satan" oriented

Postby JohnTitor » Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:52 pm

A most agreeable sentiment Cyber- though it was more relative to how it effects the satanic belief system (so perhaps posting it in gnosticism was incorrect of me).

How WOULD it effect such a matter, when the symbol is now regarded as Satanic when the term Baphomet is actually a reference to the holy temple of God?

“Tem-o-h-p-ab”. It means in Latin templi omnium hominum pacis abbas, "Peace of the Father to all men in the temple." latin being a dead (though still studied) language, it has been slightly altered just as any language that old has been.

How does that change the workings of worshiping it as a satanic emblem or as a representation of Lucifer in the Satanic paradigm?

(loving your input)

Titor
Creation is our gift, yet we seek only destruction. We have the ability to achieve greatness and mold our very existence into that which we desire- only to writhe in our perceived notions of existence and preconceived limitations set forth by our predecessors. Let us go forth together and create something wondrous and unique~
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Re: Baphomet- not "Satan" oriented

Postby cyberdemon » Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:30 pm

Linguistically, you have to remember that names are just a way to call a thing, even if it is abstract. The "real" names of any higher dimensional beings will also be like such, any names we have here are just representations of the real thing which we can't even perceive. For the same reason we end up with multiple names for a single "person".
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Re: Baphomet- not "Satan" oriented

Postby EternalReturn » Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:15 pm

I had an interesting flash in my head after reading this. Concerning satanism I have seen that some of them adopted the horn symbol but rarely I have seen anyone explain it that way.

But as Christianity has destroyed these old symbols and adopted Mithra like crown, or sun disk - horns could be represented as reviving the old ways.

And it has reminded me of one album cover:

Image
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Re: Baphomet- not "Satan" oriented

Postby JohnTitor » Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:45 pm

While this be true, I could not fathom calling upon Baphomet as anything other than what it originally stood for. While the name may have changed, it is used outside of context. Take for example trying to ask around for a friend- their name is John- and you are asking around for William and instead of having a picture of him that is recognizable as John- you have a picture or drawing that does not resemble nor accurately represent him. I am calling upon Satan and those under his rule- I am doing so using a tool that was never intended for such use when devised, and actually was meant to invoke his adversary or something that I do not believe exists. Certainly linguistics come into play to an extent (the idea behind linguistics is the evolution and change of a language while meaning is still clear if I'm not mistaken), but I wouldn't think that it would to such a degree as to allow one to use a holy name to call forth something that is less than holy.

I do understand that if you strictly adhere to certain Satanic Paradigms JHVH does not matter nor exist- but it does to an extent when Baphomet literally is calling upon something outside of that paradigm such as JHVH's light and power. Not antagonistically speaking here since it is all subjective to an extent (and I love speculation), but when you take the fact that it is Christian Mysticism/Gnosticism I cannot see that which you are calling forth being all that happy lol.

The "real" names of any higher dimensional beings will also be like such, any names we have here are just representations of the real thing which we can't even perceive


Could one infer though, that what we have perceived is not that which we thought it was? Could we in turn actually be perceiving the light of JHVH and instead think it is this Satan/Lucifer/Baphomet? all curiosity here, am not discrediting anything please keep in mind.

Again, all this is history. Understanding the Moderators' true nature is far more important to reconnection than revisiting what's happened so long ago that no matter what you do now, what's been done cannot be reversed.


I am not attempting to reverse nor make any alteration here so much as impress the fact that historically speaking- the practice of summoning satan/Lucifer with the Baphomet is inaccurate as it is a representation of the holy temple of God/JHVH.Keep in mind however, I am discussing the Baphomet as a symbol and/or representation of, not as an actual being itself.It wasn't until much later after the Baphomet was created/devised that it was thought of as an actual being vs symbol of or representation of- a higher power (demon, angel, deity etc...), first appearing (publicly perhaps) in 1098 in a letter written by a crusader

"The name Baphomet appeared in July 1098 in a letter by the crusader Anselm of Ribemont:

Sequenti die aurora apparente, altis vocibus Baphometh invocaverunt; et nos Deum nostrum in cordibus nostris deprecantes, impetum facientes in eos, de muris civitatis omnes expulimus.[6]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baphomet

I have not read any information on you Cyberdemon, though i assume this is your key area of study (Satanism to any degree/paradigm)?

I feel like this is a learning experience < :) and Great input Eternal- The horns on the depictions of moses were indeed representative of the holy light exuding from him from his face/forehead which ties in with the horns being a holy representation vs unholy. <3 wonderful feedback from both of you
Creation is our gift, yet we seek only destruction. We have the ability to achieve greatness and mold our very existence into that which we desire- only to writhe in our perceived notions of existence and preconceived limitations set forth by our predecessors. Let us go forth together and create something wondrous and unique~
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Re: Baphomet- not "Satan" oriented

Postby cyberdemon » Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:41 pm

JohnTitor wrote:While this be true, I could not fathom calling upon Baphomet as anything other than what it originally stood for. While the name may have changed, it is used outside of context. Take for example trying to ask around for a friend- their name is John- and you are asking around for William and instead of having a picture of him that is recognizable as John- you have a picture or drawing that does not resemble nor accurately represent him. I am calling upon Satan and those under his rule- I am doing so using a tool that was never intended for such use when devised, and actually was meant to invoke his adversary or something that I do not believe exists. Certainly linguistics come into play to an extent (the idea behind linguistics is the evolution and change of a language while meaning is still clear if I'm not mistaken), but I wouldn't think that it would to such a degree as to allow one to use a holy name to call forth something that is less than holy.


This is the correct idea. Why would you call Sadie's phone number and ask for John, if you know where you can find John's phone number in the first place?

JohnTitor wrote:I do understand that if you strictly adhere to certain Satanic Paradigms JHVH does not matter nor exist- but it does to an extent when Baphomet literally is calling upon something outside of that paradigm such as JHVH's light and power. Not antagonistically speaking here since it is all subjective to an extent (and I love speculation), but when you take the fact that it is Christian Mysticism/Gnosticism I cannot see that which you are calling forth being all that happy lol.


Of course not. They are busy in the higher dimensions! Imagine their being as an abstract form of energy with a consciousness with a specific purpose beyond which it cannot usually work.. Why else would they be at least a little pissed off when someone actually tries to summon them? Even if time is relative, they don't have much time. It's a difficult topic.

JohnTitor wrote:
Could one infer though, that what we have perceived is not that which we thought it was? Could we in turn actually be perceiving the light of JHVH and instead think it is this Satan/Lucifer/Baphomet? all curiosity here, am not discrediting anything please keep in mind.


Apply the theory of the singularity-duality self-non-self we are talking about in Crowley vs Spare. "The light of Allah" is basically then, the singularity of One, and everything else, a cycle of one of the innumerable lifetimes. Technically speaking - yes. We are definitely perceiving said light.

JohnTitor wrote:
Again, all this is history. Understanding the Moderators' true nature is far more important to reconnection than revisiting what's happened so long ago that no matter what you do now, what's been done cannot be reversed.


I am not attempting to reverse nor make any alteration here so much as impress the fact that historically speaking- the practice of summoning satan/Lucifer with the Baphomet is inaccurate as it is a representation of the holy temple of God/JHVH.Keep in mind however, I am discussing the Baphomet as a symbol and/or representation of, not as an actual being itself.It wasn't until much later after the Baphomet was created/devised that it was thought of as an actual being vs symbol of or representation of- a higher power (demon, angel, deity etc...), first appearing (publicly perhaps) in 1098 in a letter written by a crusader.


What is the difference between Baphomet as an actual being vs a higher power? It is both a symbol, and an entity. Much like light is a wave of energy and a particle at the same time. Context is always important. Considering that linguistics have their issues and higher powers can access thought-forms, what matters is who you are trying to call.

JohnTitor wrote:I have not read any information on you Cyberdemon, though i assume this is your key area of study (Satanism to any degree/paradigm)?


Putting my field under a specific category would be strange, for I am only after finding out the Truth, how it works, and how it can be practically used. I mainly apply techniques from multiple fields of occult practices in a mixed form of chaos magick, experimenting to see what works and what doesn't. Besides that, I apply scientific knowledge to attempt to form an understanding of the Universe and what lies Outside. My group and I are attempting to document it all in a practical, replicable form complete with 21st century upgrades as opposed to reusing old material. We call it the MMORPG theory, but the first iteration of its bible is now - just four months since it was written - already quite obsolete in terms of theology. A second iteration is in the works and it should be much more comprehensive by the time we have finished it.
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Re: Baphomet- not "Satan" oriented

Postby JohnTitor » Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:21 pm

You and I have our practice in common then. I attempt to apply science to religion, magick, theology and philosophy to better understand how things work. In my experience, all of the areas I have practiced in have their merits.

What is the difference between Baphomet as an actual being vs a higher power? It is both a symbol, and an entity. Much like light is a wave of energy and a particle at the same time. Context is always important. Considering that linguistics have their issues and higher powers can access thought-forms, what matters is who you are trying to call.


The difference between Baphomet as a symbol vs entity being that a symbol is a representation.( If the symbol doesn't matter- I could align the moderator with a squiggly, and as long as I knew I wanted to call him- in theory I would get him right?) Take your light analogy- light is a wave of energy and a particle at the same time. The wave and light emitted merely a representation of its numerous sub-atomic particles. They produce light as a collective and only as a result of (on the perceivable level as far as modern technology, though this has no bearing on any sort of higher being)the cumulative energy shared and emitted during interaction. The symbol is a representation of something specific, (light representing it's particles- the specification) say Satan is the particle. He emits a certain ray/wave/frequency that is perceived and reacted to. Satan is not exuding the light that he is being interpreted as. Again names and technicalities here can be argued that it doesn't matter what you call it so long as you know what/who you want to call- but you can't expect light when you wire it incorrectly or put the particles together incorrectly. With your Moderator of Rebellion analogy (I would like to hear more about the MMORPG theory, a topic post or perhaps PM if you would, I love the sound of it as it seems to tie together a few things otherwise left separate) he signifies or represents a falling, a new way of thinking. The particular ray seen is such and that is fine. But we are putting a screen or filter over it with the Baphomet by saying this is The moderator of rebellion when it already had a specific purpose- to call the Administrator (regardless of whether or not this is the collective whole) not the Moderator of Rebellion(a PART of the collective whole). It's like attempting to make light out of shadow I think. A representation of all that is(the cosmos and all of its inner workings down to the subatomic and strong atomic force)- being used to specify one type of force (eg light, gravity) which in turn encompasses many smaller specifics.I note that you agreed to a point -
Apply the theory of the singularity-duality self-non-self we are talking about in Crowley vs Spare. "The light of Allah" is basically then, the singularity of One, and everything else, a cycle of one of the innumerable lifetimes. Technically speaking - yes. We are definitely perceiving said light.


but we are only perceiving a fraction of that light if we are truly establishing contact with just the moderator in using said method of contact, even though we are still perceiving it. It's not in it's entirety, being a fraction of the collective. I mean... Given that they can access thought-forms the admin wouldn't bother because he knows that it is not he that is being called to, and the mod will step in knowing what you mean, I can see it being like I said- a fragment of what it should be. Faulty wiring ends in disaster- and this could be why they have such a finicky nature when such methods are used- aside from being pulled from their designated role. Like you said, difficult topic when semantics and such get in the way, combined with moderated history. This has been a very informative discussion- making me really consider things a little differently.
Creation is our gift, yet we seek only destruction. We have the ability to achieve greatness and mold our very existence into that which we desire- only to writhe in our perceived notions of existence and preconceived limitations set forth by our predecessors. Let us go forth together and create something wondrous and unique~
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Re: Baphomet- not "Satan" oriented

Postby cyberdemon » Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:10 pm

JohnTitor wrote:The difference between Baphomet as a symbol vs entity being that a symbol is a representation.( If the symbol doesn't matter- I could align the moderator with a squiggly, and as long as I knew I wanted to call him- in theory I would get him right?)


Theoretically, yes. Practically, no. Several things go into play when using sigils and symbols after all. Theoretically you can also rearrange a number sequence until it forms John's phone number and not nonsense or even Sadie's phone number. An interesting topic about sigils is somewhere on the boards relating higher dimensions to lower ones via thought-form (astral/ether/etc) - likewise the amount of association a symbol has with a specific meaning, it will conform into performing what it is thought to perform. Not to mention the requirements of "charging" sigils and so on, utilizing one that has a specific meaning now is possibly more powerful than using it for its original intention.

This, needs to be heavily tested out experimentally, of course.

JohnTitor wrote:...

but we are only perceiving a fraction of that light if we are truly establishing contact with just the moderator in using said method of contact, even though we are still perceiving it. It's not in it's entirety, being a fraction of the collective. I mean... Given that they can access thought-forms the admin wouldn't bother because he knows that it is not he that is being called to, and the mod will step in knowing what you mean, I can see it being like I said- a fragment of what it should be. Faulty wiring ends in disaster- and this could be why they have such a finicky nature when such methods are used- aside from being pulled from their designated role. Like you said, difficult topic when semantics and such get in the way, combined with moderated history. This has been a very informative discussion- making me really consider things a little differently.


It's not only light as we visually see it, etc, but it is a metaphor for energy itself. Remember that when these terms were used back in history, the concept of energy in terms of physics was still far away from human knowledge. I'm not saying it is light energy that we are supposed to perceive, it goes far deeper than that. Quantum, multi-dimensional connections and so on.

Anyway, the first iteration of the MMORPG theory is here.
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Re: Baphomet- not "Satan" oriented

Postby JohnTitor » Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:16 pm

thank you for the link, and this has been a very fun topic to discuss. As with our Crowley vs Spare discussion- I feel that there is much that is too subjective and as you stated in this last- needs heavy experimentation. While I can agree with you on most points, the points we seem to differ on are subjective and very much inconclusive as far as any practical implementation being relevant or even proper. Quantum mechanics and multidimensional connections and relative science as we currently understand do very much limit our ability to test, and understand to a certain degree. I would be very interested to discuss theories and such in another topic-or PM. Relay experimental outcomes and whatnot. :)
Creation is our gift, yet we seek only destruction. We have the ability to achieve greatness and mold our very existence into that which we desire- only to writhe in our perceived notions of existence and preconceived limitations set forth by our predecessors. Let us go forth together and create something wondrous and unique~
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Re: Baphomet- not "Satan" oriented

Postby ThomasK » Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:12 pm

Baphomet or Baphometr is primarily an alchemic symbol with some Kabbalah thrown in for good measure. Solve et Coagula. It's a composite symbol which connotes various bits of knowledge in order to focus the intellect.
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Re: Baphomet- not "Satan" oriented

Postby cyberdemon » Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:22 pm

ThomasK wrote:Baphomet or Baphometr is primarily an alchemic symbol with some Kabbalah thrown in for good measure. Solve et Coagula. It's a composite symbol which connotes various bits of knowledge in order to focus the intellect.


That's what most symbols, sigils, etc. are. They focus the intellect onto an idea. The idea we're talking about here is the same idea that is characterized, or personified, as Baphomet.
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