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Buddhism and Magic

Buddhism and Magic

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:59 pm

Original post: Master 27

I've been interested in Buddhism for awhile now. But the more I read about it, the more uneasy I get about it when it comes to magic.

I've heard that there are Buddhist magicians out there, and I also know that some Buddhist sects have "magical" rituals, but I'm curious as to how this can be? I'm a spellcaster and I'm very much interested in changing things in the physical realm around me using spells and charms and whatnot. The vibe I get from most Buddhist books is that we should focus on the spiritual and not the physical.

Basically: How can you be both a magician and a Buddhist? How do your magical practices work with your Buddhist beliefs?

-Ater

PS: If this topic has already been discussed, I couldn't find it using the search feature, so any hints/links would be welcomed.
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Buddhism and Magic

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:43 pm

Original post: Scarlett_156

Basically: How can you be both a magician and a Buddhist? How do your magical practices work with your Buddhist beliefs?


Disclaimer: While I know quite a bit about Buddhism, but I don't practice it. I am not spiritually oriented or concerned about religion.

However, I can give you some advice from a Chaotic point of view which might be helpful to you.

Instead of trying to integrate the present "you" with the "you" who wants to know more about Buddhism, why not just shed the present "you" for now--assuming that Buddhism has truly sparked your interest--and let the new "you" get thoroughly into Buddhism for awhile? In other words, let yourself become what you think a Buddhist is, and put aside whatever reservations or misgivings you may have.

After a period of time you may see that the old "you" did not need to be discarded in favor of the new one, and that both "yous" can coexist in the same body without conflict. Or, you may like the "new you" that is a Buddhist better, and choose to leave the "old you" behind permanently. Or you could find that Buddhism really isn't as cool as you thought it was at first, and decide to return to your former habits and values.

The only way you can really know a spiritual system is to get all the way into it. Don't hang onto your former beliefs, just set them aside and JUMP. In the same way a swimmer learns to resist the urge to breathe when he's in the water, and then to enjoy swimming without struggle or fear, you can live without your present beliefs, at least for awhile.

Regardless of what route you ultimately end up taking, you may well start to realize that you have less of a set personality and "self" than you formerly believed. That is always a good thing to know. It's very liberating.

Good luck! I hope this helped in some way. xoxo [COLOR="Sienna"]Scarlett[/COLOR]
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Buddhism and Magic

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:48 am

Original post: Erebus

What Scarlett is talking about is a chaos magick term: Paradigm Surfing. Its part of the chaote practice of immersing oneself into a paradigm and taking from it what works for you to later integrate into your parctice.
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Buddhism and Magic

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:00 am

Original post: Jenfucius

Keep in mind that the mixing & borrowing of occult systems existed befor the term "chaos magick" became into being.
The original Golden Dawn is perhaps the most well known of these groups that has mixed and matched systems.
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Buddhism and Magic

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:37 am

Original post: Master 27

[QUOTE=Scarlett_156;312691]Disclaimer: While I know quite a bit about Buddhism, but I don't practice it. I am not spiritually oriented or concerned about religion.

However, I can give you some advice from a Chaotic point of view which might be helpful to you.

Instead of trying to integrate the present "you" with the "you" who wants to know more about Buddhism, why not just shed the present "you" for now--assuming that Buddhism has truly sparked your interest--and let the new "you" get thoroughly into Buddhism for awhile? In other words, let yourself become what you think a Buddhist is, and put aside whatever reservations or misgivings you may have.

After a period of time you may see that the old "you" did not need to be discarded in favor of the new one, and that both "yous" can coexist in the same body without conflict. Or, you may like the "new you" that is a Buddhist better, and choose to leave the "old you" behind permanently. Or you could find that Buddhism really isn't as cool as you thought it was at first, and decide to return to your former habits and values.

The only way you can really know a spiritual system is to get all the way into it. Don't hang onto your former beliefs, just set them aside and JUMP. In the same way a swimmer learns to resist the urge to breathe when he's in the water, and then to enjoy swimming without struggle or fear, you can live without your present beliefs, at least for awhile.

Regardless of what route you ultimately end up taking, you may well start to realize that you have less of a set personality and "self" than you formerly believed. That is always a good thing to know. It's very liberating.

Good luck! I hope this helped in some way. xoxo [COLOR="Sienna"]Scarlett[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Thanks Scarlett! That was a very helpful post!

I was thinking of doing something like that, but I think I love magic more than any religion/spiritual path. Hence my saying: Religion is bullshit. Science is bullshit. Only magic is real. :angel:

To the others: Thanks for the info, but I already know a lot about chaos magic.

-Ater
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Buddhism and Magic

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:01 pm

Original post: Venefica

I am not a Buddhist but I have read a bit about it and Buddha himself advocated a balance between the physical and the Spiritual. There are a reason why we are born as physical beings in a physical world, and we must not forget that we are physical beings, but we should neither forget that under all this matter we are Spirit. Many Buddhist directions have forgotten this and speaks only of cultivating the Spirit, but that was not the original teachings of the man that have been called Buddha.

It is the same as some Christians saying one should not drink alcohol at all and yet Jesus both drank vine and created it to. Whit religions different sects and the like tend to distort the original teachings.

I do not think magic is a problem in Buddhism, and generally magic users and Buddhists go rather well together when the two meet rather often. But remember that there is a balancing act. Buddhism I think would not go well whit spells that impede on other's development though the lives or that hurt others for example. But spells to help yourself in your everyday life should be no problem.
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Buddhism and Magic

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:58 pm

Original post: simex

Well, I think the real problem is that once you accept a dharmic path, there's no reason to do magic in the first place, except to help people. But, the metaphysics of dharmic religions support the possibility of magic in the fullest degree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tummo

and on the Hindu side of dharma...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhi
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Buddhism and Magic

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:51 pm

Original post: Master 27

Thanks for the replies!

Venefica, I like the idea of balance, because a lot of what I've read seems grossly imbalanced (at least from my perspective).

simex, that's pretty much my main concern. I'm not really fond of the idea of using magic for only "good" things. :) That's why I left Wicca behind a few years ago, if I remember correctly. I'm more of a witchcraft practitioner, and I wouldn't have a problem cursing somebody if I had a good reason to.

I am spiritual though, but in my own way. I don't like the idea of following somebody else's revelations/thoughts...that's one of my main gripes with organized religions...not too much thinking is done on the part of the followers.

-Ater
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Buddhism and Magic

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:24 pm

Original post: Frater Mugen

Master 27, Scarlett has all ready given a good response and a answer that seemed to resonate well with you. But I will give my views on the matter as a person who seeks to understand Buddhism as a vehicle for self-cultivation. Treat these views as opinion, and also my influences from Buddhism primarily comes from Mahayana thought and the Japanese Shingon school of Vajrayana.

First of all, I believe that performing magic is simply a type of action. You can take action on several levels, magic is then one resource we have to take action. As such, it is subject to dependent co-arising (aka dependent origination, in other words, the interconnectedness of causality). Upon understanding dependent co-arising it should be clear that when doing magic there are conditions that led up to the desire to do magic and there will be various effects from the act of magic. So, from a Buddhist perspective, a Buddhist using magic would have to take great care in understanding the conditions that led up to the act of magic and also the effects his action will have on the rest of the universe. If the act of magic is rooted in attatchment/clinging, aversion/hatred, or ignorance, then it may be the case that you are simply digging yourself deeper into delusion. Also, the results of your magic (as with any action) may result in suffering. A reason why there are rules to follow in Buddhism is that a person who is not enlightened may not have the capacity to fully understand and accept the full responsibility suggested in dependent co-arising. Unless given some guidelines until they reach higher states of consciousness, their actions may simply lead to further bondage and suffering for themselves and others. Similarly, when doing magic you may not know exactly what the results will be. An answer to this problem has been divination to make sure everything is cool. This is my interpretation as to how the truth (from a Buddhist POV) of dependent co-arising relates to magic. These ideas aren't exclusive to Buddhism, of course.

To answer the question more fully, allow me to quote from the book Shingon, which is a book put together based on Japanese writings by Yamasaki Taikou. The author's perspective is, of course, of the Shingon school of Buddhism. Sorry, but this is a long excerpt. I made notes and omissions where I felt it appropriate.
The name Shingon (真言), as we have seen, means "true word," referring to the mantric words and syllables that convey the essence of the Buddha-teaching... The Sanskrit word mantra (shingon) originally meant a vessel heaped up with sacred thoughts. Another word for incantation was vidya (Jap., myou 明) meaning knowledge or learning. Vidya came to refer to occult knowledge, and a compound word meaning knowledge-holder referred to a sorcerer or magician. Early Theravada texts in Pali refer to mantra as paritta, meaning protection, that being the first Buddhist use of mantra. The term dharani, literally meaning all-holding, derives from an ancient word used for the practive of controlling the senses and concentrating the mind. The word first used in Buddhism for this kind of incantation was mantra, and the term dharani was not employed until the appearance of Mahayana. Shingon uses the general term mantra to refer to all types of esoteric incantation.
Use of mantras flourished in all schools of Buddhism, and even in the austere Theravada, priests gathered before stupas, bodhi trees, or Buddha-images to perform offerings and recite mantras in unison for such purposes as bringing rain. The early Matouga-kyou (摩登伽經), translated into Chinese in the third century, tells the story of how a young woman, having fallen in love with Shakyamuni's disciple Ananda, had her mother recite vidyas in a magical ritual to draw Ananda to their house, where she intended to bind him in the coils of love. Ananda's plight, however, was known to the Buddha, who in turn recited vidyas to rescue his disciple from this worldly attachment.
Mahayana incorporated the vidyas which early Buddhism had taken from preexisting practices primarily concerned with protection from misfortune. These it used together with the dominant Mahayana form of mantra, the dharani, employed as an aid to concentrate the mind in contemplation. With the development of many new Buddhas and bodhisattvas in Mahayana, the belief grew that invoking the name of a particular deity could bring its aid. The Lotus Sutra, for example, teaches the practice of calling on Kannon (Note: Guanyin/Avalokitesvara) as a way to avert disaster, and Wisdom sutras give corresponding practices. The Kanmuryouju-kyou (観無量寿経), translated into Chinese in the fifth century, teaches invocation of Amida as a way to attain rebirth in the Pure Land.
Exoteric dharani invocation was meant to lead to contemplative states of mind by concentrating the meditator's mind--through long, continuous recitation--on the deity being invoked. Some esoteric recitation also consists of calling on particular deities by name, and functions similarly to concentrate the mind without necessarily involving any contemplation of the mantric syllables' meaning. The literal sense of many mantras and dharanis has in any case been long forgotten (or in some cases had never existed), repeated recitation alone being considered to have the desired effect.
In a development of this type of practice, Mahayana meditators began to use dharanis as abbreviated expressions of certain teachings, or as core symbols for regulating the mind in meditation... Then, in an important transition toward esoteric practice, dharanis became not just a means to concentrate the mind but objects of internal visualization symbolizing Buddha-truth. Originating in this kind of Mahayana dharani recitation, esoteric mantra practice had the aims of uniting the self and the deity, experiencing wisdom, and manifesting the universal self in the particular practitioner. In The True Meaning of the Voiced Syllable, Kuukai wrote (note: Koubou Daishi Kuukai is the founder of the Shingon school):

By performing empowerment with the Buddha, the way will be pointed out for [living beings'] return. If the way to return is not founded on this teaching, it will not be established. If the vitality of this teaching is not in the voiced syllable, it will not be accomplished. By reciting the voiced syllables with clear understanding, one manifests the truth.

...
Esoteric mantra practice, therefore, more than simple voiced recitation, focuses rather on contemplation within the mind. Characteristic of this practice is contemplation of the written form, the sound, and the inner meaning of a mantra, by which the mantra reveals the image, the voice, and the mind of the deity. Although their form often resembles that of earlier magical incantations, in Mikkyo (密教; mikkyou; esoteric Buddhism) their content and use differ in that esoteric mantras are considered to embody the actuality of enlightenment. In the Commentary on the Dainichi-kyou (大日経; Mahavairocana Tantra)is written (sic):

The fire ritual, offering rituals, and so on are all held in common from the Vedas. The reason that only the Mantra Gate fulfills the secret is that [ritual is performed] by empowerment with the truth. If mantras are recited only in one's mouth, without contemplation of their meaning, then only their worldly effect can be accomplished--but the adamantine body-nature cannot.


As embodiments of enlightenment, mantras represent all-pervading Truth, present in all things. It should not be surprising to find, therefore, that Mikkyo mantra practice can have a twofold purpose. On the one hand, esoteric mantras are directed toward supramundane realization, but on the other hand, reflecting their origin in magical practice, they can also be directed toward immediate material benefit. The esoteric practitioner employs mantras to unite with the universe, and so to function as the great self, which, however, is not separate from the phenomenal world. Esoteric ritual, therefore, may also concern itself with the fulfillment of proper worldly needs.
...In explaining the nature of Shingon (mantra), Kuukai stated that it was the central teaching of all Buddhism; that the teachings were for protecting the nation and the world; that the practices were for real benefit in this life by averting misfortune and inviting happiness and good fortune; and, as the ultimate expression of this, that the teachings could result in becoming a Buddha in the present body (sokushin joubutsu 即身成仏 note: the teaching of sokushin joubutsu sets Vajrayana apart from many other schools of Buddhist thought)
As this suggets, Mikkyo, like most religious systems, does perform rituals of prayer for immediate secular benefit--to cure illness, to bring good fortune, to drive away misfortune, and so on. A term often used for this kind of Mikkyo ritual is kaji kitou (加持祈祷). Kitou means prayer, and kaji refers to mutual empowerment with the deity, without which Mikkyo prayer is not thought to be effective. One risk observed in such ritual is that the practitioner may become attached to worldly things or even power for its own sake. Efforts to gain this type of benefit are, therefore, considered with great care.
Exoteric Buddhist--and pre-Buddhist--magical ritual by which the adept would take on a deity's power through mantric techniques was adapted by Mikkyo. Most esoteric rituals are classifed even today as being for the purpose of averting disaster, or inviting blessings, or vanquishing a foe; but this is the superficial format of ritual as it was adopted into esoteric Buddhism, and these are but symbolic names for what is actually of spiritual, not secular, meaning. By employing well-established, traditional three-secrets techniques (note: beyond the scope of this post, but in simplified form the three-secrets techniques involve uniting the three activities of body, speech, and mind of the practitioner with the three secrets of the universe, the Buddha's body, speech, and mind), the Mikkyo practitioner "becomes" the deity, and the power thus "gained" is the power of realization. Mantras are employed by the solitary practitioner as an essential part of three-secrets practice for attaining immediate Buddhahood, therefore, but they are also used in large-scale Mikkyo rituals involving dozens of priests on behalf of the nation and the entire world.
...


Also remember that aversion/avoidance/hatred is as much an attatchment as clinging. If you have an attitude of aversion toward wordly concerns or hold on to the idea that magic that brings change on a worldly level is worthless, then that could be as much an attatchment of yours as clinging to your notion of self or to material things. Of course, in my opinion magic is just a vehicle for change, so both magical and mundane methods are valid methods to make changes in one's conditions. It then becomes important to pay close attention to one's motivations and the results of your actions if you are to follow the Dharma of the Buddhas, whether your actions be magical or mundane. As Venefica was saying, Siddharta Gautama taught to take the Middle Way. Buddhism does not condemn the physical in favor of the spiritual. Siddharta Gautama lived a life of over-indulgence as a prince, and then became a renouncer and retreated to severe asceticism and self-rejection in hopes of realizing moksha. The mentality of the renouncer is that only the atman is the real, eternal self, and indeed the universal Brahman, so renouncing all that is worldly including the physical body (which is illusory) is not detrimental. The Buddha rejected this and taught anatman, or no-self, but one should not be attached to the idea of atman or anatman. The Buddha, Siddharta Gautama, found the Middle Way between extremes to be the way to enlightenment and liberation.
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Buddhism and Magic

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:15 pm

Original post: Master 27

Thanks Frater Mugen!

That was very interesting reading. Thanks for the info.

If I understand correctly, the message seems to be that (practical) magic is okay, just not to take it too far and forget about the spiritual.

-Ater
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Buddhism and Magic

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:47 pm

Original post: Venefica

Well, I think the real problem is that once you accept a dharmic path, there's no reason to do magic in the first place, except to help people. But, the metaphysics of dharmic religions support the possibility of magic in the fullest degree.
But you have to help yourself some way, you work to get food on your table and so on, after all dharma or no dharma if you just lie down and wait to die that is what will happen, no matter what your destiny is. I think it is important to even if you believe in destiny to not forget about personal responsibility for walking your path to.

simex, that's pretty much my main concern. I'm not really fond of the idea of using magic for only "good" things. :) That's why I left Wicca behind a few years ago, if I remember correctly. I'm more of a witchcraft practitioner, and I wouldn't have a problem cursing somebody if I had a good reason to.
And here we have a problem, Buddhist philosophy do not allow for harming another being, even for good reasons. I would say that magic to help yourself practically is all right, but harming somone is not if you are to be a Buddhist.
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Buddhism and Magic

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:21 am

Original post: Jenfucius

Venefica;312956 wrote:And here we have a problem, Buddhist philosophy do not allow for harming another being, even for good reasons. I would say that magic to help yourself practically is all right, but harming somone is not if you are to be a Buddhist.

(nothing personal or anything)
I believe there are a few sects that do believe in harming (I believe it was either Son of Mr.Gordo or Mmorthra that brought it up in a past post ages ago. I have heard of it as well). It has to do with Tibetan Buddhism where a ruthless King was assasinated by a priest. The reasoning behind it was that it was an act of compassion and that this Tibetan King was killed to prevent him from doing further karma to himself because he would kill and torture his enemies. (Essentially what happen was that the Tibetan Priest entertain the King with a sacred religious ceremonial dance and near the end of the dance he shot an arrow out from beneath his sleave and killed the king.)
The other acception I've heard are Shaolin Monks who will kill but only in self defense.
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Buddhism and Magic

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:05 am

Original post: Venefica

Like I said I am not a Buddhist, I may definitely be wrong in what I am saying, and there definitely may be sects and groups in the religion that I know nothing about. As in all religions not all see the teachings as the same, there are bound to be many intepretations, just as whit religions as Christianity. But whit for example the the Shaolin Monks while they may accept a curse to save one's on life or to save a life they will accept it for very few other reasons. The general idea in Buddhism is that everyone have to be allowed to follow their dharma path, whiteout interference.

(Off topic why do you feel the need to inform me that it is not personal that you have another opinion than me? We are on a discussion forum after all where the whole point is to exchange ideas.)
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Buddhism and Magic

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:14 am

Original post: Jenfucius

Venefica;313037 wrote:(Off topic why do you feel the need to inform me that it is not personal that you have another opinion than me? We are on a discussion forum after all where the whole point is to exchange ideas.)

Oh just some people may take it the wrong way even though there may be no intentionally doing so. I sometimes see senseless flame wars erupt just because of misunderstandings.
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Buddhism and Magic

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:11 pm

Original post: noorakoi

Hi, I'm new. Been browsing around and lurking for a while.

The previous discussion has been very interesting to me. I wanted to point out something though. This far we have been discussing mainly using low magic to improve the daily life. While I do not see why it would be incompatible with Buddhism, I would like to stress that in Buddhism the ideal of bodhisattva is of utmost importance, that is, to become a Buddha. (There have been many.)

What's interesting is that this ideal is not too far from the ideal of Adept in the Western mysticism. To me, high magic would make more sense than low magic: to strive with all your being to, simply, become a better person, gradually eliminating all wants and attachments to the world fleeting past, and to gain control of it by not being attached to it, a slave of it anymore.

Zen masters, Buddhist teachers etc. have been reported to make great miracles by simply expressing their wish. This is because their relation to the world of illusions is no longer that of the slave to the master.
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Buddhism and Magic

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:49 pm

Original post: Draginvry

Also remember that aversion/avoidance/hatred is as much an attatchment as clinging.


This is quite a common mistake for those studying Buddhism. In their zeal to let go of attachments, they throw everything away, thinking that they are now free since they tossed out their TV and their Pepsi.

This is not enlightenment. It is folly. That is like throwing out the baby with the bathwater. The true sage would know that their TV and Pepsi is nothing but a choice. In the choosing of one's actions, one accepts the responsibility of the consequences and implications. But by merely denying or avoiding the material world, one is just as attached to the idea of freedom as they were to the idea of materialism.

One must let go of all attachments, including the attachment to the idea of detachment. When this happens, the choice to do magick is easy, because one will see beyond illusion and know the exact implications of their spell and what it means.

It's not the physical world which causes suffering, as many people mistake Buddism to be. Rather, it is the attachment to the physical world which causes suffering.
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Buddhism and Magic

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:37 pm

Original post: noorakoi

Let me still remark that throwing out your TV and Pepsi for a year or two serves well to cut the attachment (as well as to give you better health and more time to be onli... ahem, meditate.)
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Buddhism and Magic

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:36 pm

Original post: Master 27

Thanks for your comments, noorakoi!

I'm not a big fan of ceremonial magic, so that's out of the question. ;) But as I said earlier, the more I read about different religions, the less I wanna be involved in them. While I can respect people who choose those paths, I find it much more fulfilling to make up my own.

I'm still interested to hear people's thoughts on this topic. I keep hearing/reading about magicians who are Buddhist, and I'm just wondering...how do you do it?

-Ater
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Buddhism and Magic

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:51 am

Original post: Frater Mugen

[QUOTE=Master 27;315071]I keep hearing/reading about magicians who are Buddhist, and I'm just wondering...how do you do it?

-Ater[/QUOTE] I'm sorry but I may be misunderstanding something. When you ask, "how do you do it?" do you mean how is it done in general or are you asking how any magicians who are Buddhist that happen to be on this forum do it personally (whether they are traditional in some way or self-styled)?
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Buddhism and Magic

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:13 pm

Original post: Master 27

[QUOTE=Frater Mugen;315211]I'm sorry but I may be misunderstanding something. When you ask, "how do you do it?" do you mean how is it done in general or are you asking how any magicians who are Buddhist that happen to be on this forum do it personally (whether they are traditional in some way or self-styled)?[/QUOTE]

The latter. If there are any such practioners on this forum, it would be nice to hear from them! ;)

(I'm not as interested in what's done traditionally, although that's useful, too.)

-Ater
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Buddhism and Magic

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:40 am

Original post: Aradia

Buddha had a simple message when asked if he were a god or a saint or someone special. He said NO. Just someone who has woken up! Then like what happens with so many who try to bring wisdom into this reality it got distorted into a religion of people building temples and worshipping him as a god which would go against everything he wanted to tell people.

Aradia
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Buddhism and Magic

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:39 pm

Original post: Anathema_Oracle

From my impoverished understanding of both Buddhism and magic Ill just insert my opinion. Some buddhist schools have a syncretic nature in that they amalgamate practises that may be considered occult, Dzogchen springs to mind, but I'm not sure if that is 'magical' or not.

Bare bones buddhism as I fleetingly conceive of it is a very down to earth pragmatic philosophy, it also has schools of thought that manifest highly superstitious teachings, demons, prayer to buddha incarnations etc.

In that sense, there's no obvious dichotomy to being buddhist and practising magic, only that perhaps the further one goes along a certain tradition, the reason to do magic in relation to manifesting things in 'reality' may subside.

Look at Taoism for example, as a philosophy it isn't neccesarily magical, but as far as Im aware, "Taoist magic" has a long, and sometimes sordid tradition.

Hope that was somewhat helpful.
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Buddhism and Magic

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:11 pm

Original post: Master 27

Thanks, AO!

That was helpful. :)

-Ater
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Buddhism and Magic

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:00 am

Original post: BigJonMud

[QUOTE=Master 27;312660]I've been interested in Buddhism for awhile now. But the more I read about it, the more uneasy I get about it when it comes to magic.

I've heard that there are Buddhist magicians out there, and I also know that some Buddhist sects have "magical" rituals, but I'm curious as to how this can be? I'm a spellcaster and I'm very much interested in changing things in the physical realm around me using spells and charms and whatnot. The vibe I get from most Buddhist books is that we should focus on the spiritual and not the physical.

Basically: How can you be both a magician and a Buddhist? How do your magical practices work with your Buddhist beliefs?

-Ater

PS: If this topic has already been discussed, I couldn't find it using the search feature, so any hints/links would be welcomed.[/QUOTE]

Last year I found a few different forest monasteries and spent about 4months doing my own magick in the caves on their grounds. I would chant and meditate with the monks daily, and have light-moderate discussions which usually went knowhere- and then i'd go to listen to my mp3 and do art in the forest and/or even banishings by the buddha in the temple room where I was allowed to sleep.
I found that the only person to agree with me was Buddha himself:) despite leaving the circle of reincarnation forever, he was my only true role model amongst masses of brainwashed runaways and physically delapidated monks. In the theravadin tradition, many dont even believ in exercise and take only 1 small meal per day. I met the head abbot of the Teravadin tradition from England who scoffed at suggestions to imporve the ego and make it useful in the world instead of becoming as uselss and weak as he and his fellows. Crowley was mentioned in a group discussion and they treated this idea as they treated any other which did not include entire renunciation.
On the other hand, you've got Shaolin monks who took what they needed from buddhism, combined it with teachings of the Tao and Damo and become some of the most hardcore magicians around.
Essentially the teachings can stil be found soooo pure, and Buddha himself is the fucking MAN! I think Buddhism and magick are entirely complimentary and ima continue mixin all my disciplines till I annihilate it all:)
Peace
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Buddhism and Magic

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:16 pm

Original post: Master 27

Thanks for that post, BigJonMud!

It's nice to know there's people like you out there, who do their own thing.

I like the idea of mixing up ideas an coming up with my own unique path.

I also like ego. It serves a purpose in my life. ;)

-Ater
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