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The Essence of Ninjutsu

The Essence of Ninjutsu

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:53 am

Original post: Leviathan

very fascinating martial art, and one I have never had the privilege of learning (beyond a few leg locks and grappling techniques)
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Re: The Essence of Ninjutsu

Postby manonthepath » Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:34 am

Occult Forum Archive wrote:Original post: Kath_

I kinda think that the modern sniper is the embodiment of the essence of ninjitsu.
targeted lethality + high tech weaponry (hey a ninja's tools were state of the art in their day, even kinda james-bond-ish)

sorry, we now return you to your regularly scheduled 'traditional' ninjutsu. :)


The modern sniper is a piece of shit. If you'd ever lived it, you'd know. Be glad you'll never know. People nitpick over little things that mean very little. Many read and read, but never practice the art. Get your asses out and do it!
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Re: The Essence of Ninjutsu

Postby Ramscha » Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:55 pm

In times of Smartphones, Smartshoes, Smartwatches and so on even killing with a sniper is not complicated anymore. Let me introduce you to the Smart sniper rifle.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ooter.html
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Re: The Essence of Ninjutsu

Postby RoseRed » Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:12 pm

manonthepath wrote:The modern sniper is a piece of shit. If you'd ever lived it, you'd know. Be glad you'll never know. People nitpick over little things that mean very little. Many read and read, but never practice the art. Get your asses out and do it!


I am intensely curious as to how you've come to hold this opinion.
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Re: The Essence of Ninjutsu

Postby manonthepath » Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:49 am

RoseRed wrote:
manonthepath wrote:The modern sniper is a piece of shit. If you'd ever lived it, you'd know. Be glad you'll never know. People nitpick over little things that mean very little. Many read and read, but never practice the art. Get your asses out and do it!


I am intensely curious as to how you've come to hold this opinion.


Thank you for your curiousity. Can you be more specific?
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Re: The Essence of Ninjutsu

Postby RoseRed » Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:05 pm

I thought the underlined part would've been specific enough.

I'm curious as to why you think the modern sniper is a piece of shit.
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Re: The Essence of Ninjutsu

Postby manonthepath » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:41 pm

Why would you want to know me personally?
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Re: The Essence of Ninjutsu

Postby Ramscha » Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:43 pm

Well, I guess it is a simple question because of your statement you made before. I am curious too how you come to that conclusion.
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Re: The Essence of Ninjutsu

Postby manonthepath » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:58 am

Well, it comes down to this. A sniper looks through his or her scope every day and looks deeply into the faces and mannerisms of the person targeted. The sniper then assesses the value of the target. The criteria for death are intelligence, leadership, or technical proficiency. These traits are determined through long observation. Snipers get to know something about each victim. They kill according to value. If they see a potential criminal or psychotic among the enemy, they allow them to live. This ensures that the enemy will be denied quality and will be saddled with rapists and scum. The sniper engages only under the most favorable circumstances and never engages in a fair fight. Snipers will often wound a man in a painful place, which will be a slow bleed out. This will draw medics and the most couragious of his comrades to their deaths.

I usually refrain from sharing, because it often leads to my actions, experiences and opinions being subjected to the approval or disapproval of others. I will not contend with anyone as to the merits of my observations and assessments. They are mine and come from intimate involvement over a long period of time. These lines are the complete extent to which I will go to answer curiosity regarding this matter. Please accept my sharing as a gift or token of my good will towards all here.
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Re: The Essence of Ninjutsu

Postby manonthepath » Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:32 am

In addition, mercenary snipers serving in Bosnia were paid by the individual kill. The Serbs paid $100 for each armed and uniformed adult male, $50 for any adult female, and $25 for each child. The Muslims and Croats had similar incentives in place at different times. Here is an example of why I think what I do about snipers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxmzCyQfkSo
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Re: The Essence of Ninjutsu

Postby RoseRed » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:24 pm

I appreciate the answer. There's no judgement on my end. You may believe that.

As with everything else - they have their place - whether others find it distasteful or not.
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Re: The Essence of Ninjutsu

Postby Ramscha » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:35 pm

RoseRed wrote:I appreciate the answer. There's no judgement on my end. You may believe that.

As with everything else - they have their place - whether others find it distasteful or not.


Same here, just wanted to know where this statement comes from.

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Re: The Essence of Ninjutsu

Postby Asurendra » Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:13 am

I don't like modern warfare. I prefer traditional weapons.

As to Ninjutsu, so far as I know and believe Oda destroyed all the hidden villages which were the centers of that tradition.
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Re: The Essence of Ninjutsu

Postby manonthepath » Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:09 pm

Asurendra wrote:I don't like modern warfare. I prefer traditional weapons.

As to Ninjutsu, so far as I know and believe Oda destroyed all the hidden villages which were the centers of that tradition.


Yes, there is much controversy surrounding the topic. The Ninja of the Iga region operated under the tolerance of most shogunates. Sometimes with overt support, sometimes not. Although the Koga seem to have been driven underground so deeply that they no longer exist. No one can be sure as secrecy WAS always of paramount importance. Whether a direct lineage exists or not is certainly a debatable topic, but perhaps not as relevant as some think. In any case, the practice lives on and many search diligently to unearth the secrets. Many have had great success, while many are also pretenders. As in history, there are the proficient, the fakes, and some, who are the stuff of legend. Here are links discussing the matter of lineage of both Iga and Koga clans:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Togakure-ry%C5%AB

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C5%8Dga-ry%C5%AB
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Re: The Essence of Ninjutsu

Postby magari » Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:26 am

I studied for a year under the Genbukan.

My sensei, of course, studied under the current grandmaster at the time.

I'm going to second the guy that said Ninjitsu is for combat, not spirituality....

Unless of course there is some secret society at the top, it was my understanding, explained to me by my sensei, that Ninja's followed Shinto based teachings.
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Re: The Essence of Ninjutsu

Postby manonthepath » Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:50 am

Profound mastery is measured by decades, not years. A single year of experience does not provide one with advanced knowledge to a level that would allow one to speak with authority about an entire spectrum or limitations of an art when hundreds of long-time practitioners have interpreted otherwise. One might be taken more seriously and one's thoughts taken more seriously if one were to preface with something like: "In my years experience" or "My year of practice has left me with this impression...", or something like that. This may be hard for some to swallow, but there is much that exists outside of your limited experience.
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Re: The Essence of Ninjutsu

Postby magari » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:42 am

Good point.

In my experience.....

Ninjitsu's spiritual context is based on shinto
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Re: The Essence of Ninjutsu

Postby manonthepath » Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:10 pm

magari wrote:Good point.

In my experience.....

Ninjitsu's spiritual context is based on shinto


You might want to research something called Shugendo. Knowledge of it may be enlightening and possibly useful.
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Re: The Essence of Ninjutsu

Postby magari » Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:04 am

manonthepath wrote:Well, it comes down to this. A sniper looks through his or her scope every day and looks deeply into the faces and mannerisms of the person targeted. The sniper then assesses the value of the target. The criteria for death are intelligence, leadership, or technical proficiency. These traits are determined through long observation. Snipers get to know something about each victim. They kill according to value. If they see a potential criminal or psychotic among the enemy, they allow them to live. This ensures that the enemy will be denied quality and will be saddled with rapists and scum. The sniper engages only under the most favorable circumstances and never engages in a fair fight. Snipers will often wound a man in a painful place, which will be a slow bleed out. This will draw medics and the most couragious of his comrades to their deaths.

I usually refrain from sharing, because it often leads to my actions, experiences and opinions being subjected to the approval or disapproval of others. I will not contend with anyone as to the merits of my observations and assessments. They are mine and come from intimate involvement over a long period of time. These lines are the complete extent to which I will go to answer curiosity regarding this matter. Please accept my sharing as a gift or token of my good will towards all here.


As a person with training and experience I can agree with everything you said.
I also noticed that while you don't wish to be questioned now, earlier you questioned another about how they came to their own conclusions.

However, I respect what you're writing. Its engaging and only adds value to these conversations.

Thanks for reminding me about Shugendo. Almost forgot that existed. I've realised the Japanese are a people who seem to love all religion. On the river when I camped near Hongu Taisha I saw a very old japanese man perform the islamic ritual of bowing towards mecca. This happened practically right underneath one of the largest Tori gates in the entire country.
I've personally spent a night at the Koyasan temple in Japan which is one of Shugendo's most important sites.
The next morning I attended a ceremony and a few of the monks wished me good luck before I rucked up and walked the Kohechi trail, the longest part of the Kumano Kodo (my GPS clocked over 120KM).
One of the greatest experiences of my life, changed me forever.
It was a solo journey though I met 3 people along the way. 2 were going in the opposite direction. Another I split with at Nachi Taisha. One of the most beautiful things I've ever seen.
ごめん、日本語をはなしますか。

In regards to ninjitsu as compared to being a sniper....
First we must look at the organizational structure.
Ninjas took on roles like one would within a family, hiding under a clan name to help protect their secrets.
You mess with 1, you mess with the clan.
This mode of life was a lot easier to maintain when life didn't have the entire world knocking at your door.
You hid in the mountains and focused on your art.

Snipers are organized by the modern military. However, what every marksman knows that accuracy with a rifle is a skill that must be maintained. Its not exactly like riding a bike. Its been proven that the more a shooter shoots, the more accurate he becomes. However, if he stops shooting, over time his skill diminishes.
Unfortunately bullets cost money. Every military has a budget. Not every military has a sniper school, and even the US military has opened and closed multiple sniper schools throughout its history.
So very few "qualified" snipers in the military have a lot of confidence in their ability as marksmen. Those with the bigger budgets however (SOCOM) can only guess who has resources equal to their own and so there is a confidence in that as long as they keep shooting.

Now just as there is a lot more to Ninjitsu than the sword or the katana, there is a lot more to being a sniper than just shooting a rifle.

Nowadays we call it "fieldcraft". Its a generalized term for particular training handed down by the Army. This could be something as simple as how to draw a range card to something complicated like selecting and building proper hide sites. There are even fieldcraft techniques for improving hygiene and taking care of wounds without supplies. A well known book full of this information, some of it pretty esoteric in my opinion, but nonetheless useful, is The Ranger Handbook. There is also a US Army manual for snipers. However, in my opinion the best fieldcraft is handed down from sniper to sniper.

What you said about a sniper's targets is correct in my opinion. However, what you have defined is a sniper "without a leash" so to speak. If a sniper can hide in the chaos of battle well enough to be able to fire his weapon with intent to wound a weak enemy in order to kill stronger enemies he just might. However, operating in some of the conditions I have a sniper has very little to no support from the friendly element. A smart sniper would never fire his weapon unless the escape route he takes after the initial "kill" is pretty much guaranteed.
Most soldiers who undergo some kind of "basic" training will eventually figure out what cardinal direction it came from and they will start searching with machine guns, mortars, RPGs, whatever they can afford. Hanging around, even if they don't see you is a bad idea, because eventually patrols will come. Also, there is no chance for you to fire again without being spotted this time and so therefore risking compromise of the entire mission.

Unless the mission is the elimination of said target. These missions, if they exist, are only available to the snipers "with the budget" to to speak ;)

Now as far as the religion goes.....
I can see how a sniper can get so wrapped up in his art, his "fieldcraft" that it bleeds into his spirituality. Just as a Ninja might. Especially a Japanese Ninja ;)
I like to think that I was attempting my magick in the woods in Germany when I went to sniper school.

Side Note:

Snipers who dedicate themselves to their real art, Camoflauge, do everything within their power to be invisible when perfectly still. The only required movement should be the trigger pull. Even then its often impossible to hide the muzzle flash of a firing weapon. There are a few suppressors that do the job really well for smaller caliber bullets, but the larger the bullet, typically the harder it is to hide the flash. Snipers use high caliber rifles that require precision manufactured bullets that are heavier and require a larger explosion to propel. In order to be effective on targets at range (long distances) snipers are required to shoot a lot more often than the normal soldier who's effectiveness on target isn't as important. With larger, more expensive bullets, you can see why most "qualified" sniper's shooting ability isn't exactly "one shot one kill".
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Re: The Essence of Ninjutsu

Postby magari » Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:19 am

manonthepath wrote:Well, it comes down to this. A sniper looks through his or her scope every day and looks deeply into the faces and mannerisms of the person targeted. The sniper then assesses the value of the target. The criteria for death are intelligence, leadership, or technical proficiency. These traits are determined through long observation. Snipers get to know something about each victim. They kill according to value. If they see a potential criminal or psychotic among the enemy, they allow them to live. This ensures that the enemy will be denied quality and will be saddled with rapists and scum. The sniper engages only under the most favorable circumstances and never engages in a fair fight. Snipers will often wound a man in a painful place, which will be a slow bleed out. This will draw medics and the most couragious of his comrades to their deaths.

I usually refrain from sharing, because it often leads to my actions, experiences and opinions being subjected to the approval or disapproval of others. I will not contend with anyone as to the merits of my observations and assessments. They are mine and come from intimate involvement over a long period of time. These lines are the complete extent to which I will go to answer curiosity regarding this matter. Please accept my sharing as a gift or token of my good will towards all here.


It concerns me that you have come to this conclusion regarding snipers. This doesn't sound anything like any "modern" sniper that I have met, which include members of the Marine and Army school houses as well as the German school house and teams in Afghanistan operating under multiple flags.

If you have been offended I truly apologize. Every man I have met is one of the upmost Integrity. People with heart and character others can aspire to.
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Re: The Essence of Ninjutsu

Postby manonthepath » Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:12 am

magari wrote:
manonthepath wrote:Well, it comes down to this. A sniper looks through his or her scope every day and looks deeply into the faces and mannerisms of the person targeted. The sniper then assesses the value of the target. The criteria for death are intelligence, leadership, or technical proficiency. These traits are determined through long observation. Snipers get to know something about each victim. They kill according to value. If they see a potential criminal or psychotic among the enemy, they allow them to live. This ensures that the enemy will be denied quality and will be saddled with rapists and scum. The sniper engages only under the most favorable circumstances and never engages in a fair fight. Snipers will often wound a man in a painful place, which will be a slow bleed out. This will draw medics and the most couragious of his comrades to their deaths.

I usually refrain from sharing, because it often leads to my actions, experiences and opinions being subjected to the approval or disapproval of others. I will not contend with anyone as to the merits of my observations and assessments. They are mine and come from intimate involvement over a long period of time. These lines are the complete extent to which I will go to answer curiosity regarding this matter. Please accept my sharing as a gift or token of my good will towards all here.


It concerns me that you have come to this conclusion regarding snipers. This doesn't sound anything like any "modern" sniper that I have met, which include members of the Marine and Army school houses as well as the German school house and teams in Afghanistan operating under multiple flags.

If you have been offended I truly apologize. Every man I have met is one of the upmost Integrity. People with heart and character others can aspire to.



Concerned? Why the heck should you be concerned by anything I think or feel? You don't know me, care about me, nor will ever meet me. My experience and opinions are mine and I'm entitled to them. Offended? Your experience is yours. Your opinions are yours. You are entitled to them. You communicate with clarity and respect. I have no reason to be offended.
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Re: The Essence of Ninjutsu

Postby manonthepath » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:19 am

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Re: The Essence of Ninjutsu

Postby magari » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:30 am

This is a gem.

Takes me back.
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