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Studies on Tantra

Studies on Tantra

Postby Lucca » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:56 pm

Hey guys, hope you can help me on this.

I started my path on magick few months ago, but I found out that I wasn't particularly interested in developing occult powers or contacting entities/archetypes. It has been 3 months now that I fell in love for Yôga philosophy, specially because my readings on Jung's psychology and the possibility of entering in contact with the collective uncounscious, but I'm still very confused and needing some light on my practices in order to attain samádhi on this life.

My first question is about the autonomy of the seeker in the spiritual path. I've read some stuff saying that different spiritual traditions shouldn't be mixed up because there are strong gregarious powers involved and, therefore, the colision of these forces might produce dangerous results. Other argument is that you should be loyal to your master by not accepting other master's teachings.

I was quite sceptical about this approach, but the master who told me this seems to be a wise yôgi and pretty familiar with all kinds of traditions by his own experience in youth. I understand that this is a very personal point, and I feel that many of you are likely to disagree with this, but I still wanted to hear some opinions.

Now, moving to the next subject, which concerns Tantra (specially Kaula Tantra, but I would love to hear if you have anything to say about your thoughts on Mishra and Samaya). I'm very happy I discovered this sensorial and freedom-based philosophy, but here in my country there are lots of centers offering Tantra teachings in the form of "tantric therapy capacitation", but some of them require initiation (maithuna, sexual intercourse), while others only works with massages. So, is an initiation necessary to obtain the knowledge of Tantra or that's just a tradition? Initiatic schools are more realiable in terms of knowledge and techniques?

Another point is about the mystic and ritual work that some centers develop. Now, my Yôga school is founded on Sámkhya (which rejects the mysticism and ritualistic work, and it would be awesome to discuss Védanta and Sámkhya in other topic), but I couldn't find a Sámkhya-Tantra school. Many of them are closely related to Osho's neotantra, Wilhelm Reich, Mesmer and so on. Am I likely to get good knowledge on these places? Is it really importante to find the "right" school or Tantra depends more on personal practice and development since there is no ultimate written source?

Finally, most of the schools here are Vamachara (left-handed), and, therefore, uses meat, fish and alcohol. I'm vegetarian and drugs-free, but I'm not exactly sure about my position. What are your impressions about karma theory (and, specifically, use of substances on ritual practices)?

If you got book recommendations on Tantra, I would love to hear it.

Love, folks.
Lucca
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Re: Studies on Tantra

Postby Rin » Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:30 am

Hey, I don't know much about Indian practices directly, as I'm studying within the hermetic/theurgic paradigm, but I have done some reading on the subject, and my own teachers studied under Indian teachers for a period of time, which has passed down into what I've learned from them (and prior to studying under them, I studied Bardon's IIH, which is basically Tibetan Tantra in European/Hermetic terminology), so I'll try offer what input I can.


Lucca wrote:Hey guys, hope you can help me on this.

I started my path on magick few months ago, but I found out that I wasn't particularly interested in developing occult powers or contacting entities/archetypes. It has been 3 months now that I fell in love for Yôga philosophy, specially because my readings on Jung's psychology and the possibility of entering in contact with the collective uncounscious, but I'm still very confused and needing some light on my practices in order to attain samádhi on this life.

My first question is about the autonomy of the seeker in the spiritual path. I've read some stuff saying that different spiritual traditions shouldn't be mixed up because there are strong gregarious powers involved and, therefore, the colision of these forces might produce dangerous results. Other argument is that you should be loyal to your master by not accepting other master's teachings.



I think mixing teachings isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it should be done very cautiously, either because the energies and entities behind those lineages could be incompatible, or because the effect the teachings have on your mind and energetic anatomy could be incompatible. Likewise, mixing different systems necessarily divides your time, which means you'll end up making slower progress. That said, there can be benefits, if you feel a calling to more than one system, or feel that the benefits of one system would complement another (eg. many magicians practice Yoga, Tai Chi, Chi Kung or another yogic/martial practice that works to strengthen the physical as well as energetic bodies, which increases their health and capacity for energetic/magical work dramatically).

So my advice would be to try and find a system which offers as many of your goals as possible. If you can't find one that offers all of them, then taking up a second system on the side should be done only with the permission and advice of the teachers of both systems, and with the understanding that one system will be your main focus, and one system will be complementary.


Now, moving to the next subject, which concerns Tantra (specially Kaula Tantra, but I would love to hear if you have anything to say about your thoughts on Mishra and Samaya). I'm very happy I discovered this sensorial and freedom-based philosophy, but here in my country there are lots of centers offering Tantra teachings in the form of "tantric therapy capacitation", but some of them require initiation (maithuna, sexual intercourse), while others only works with massages. So, is an initiation necessary to obtain the knowledge of Tantra or that's just a tradition? Initiatic schools are more realiable in terms of knowledge and techniques?


I can't give you specific advice here, but I'll just say that you shouldn't do anything that you aren't comfortable with, sexually or otherwise, that sex often complicates the social dynamic within a school and the student/teacher dynamic enormously, and that you should tread very carefully in that specific area. Normally my advice would be that sex for magical or spiritual purposes should only take place between a loving and dedicated couple who are both at a similar level of attainment, and that otherwise you leave yourself open for enormous exploitation - spiritual, energetic and psychological.

Is it really importante to find the "right" school or Tantra depends more on personal practice and development since there is no ultimate written source?


I think finding the right school/teacher is essential for any magical or spiritual path. All the books in the world won't help you as much as a decent teacher.

Finally, most of the schools here are Vamachara (left-handed), and, therefore, uses meat, fish and alcohol. I'm vegetarian and drugs-free, but I'm not exactly sure about my position. What are your impressions about karma theory (and, specifically, use of substances on ritual practices)?


When it comes to the spiritual use of drugs, I believe that if you're not developed and mature enough to reach a state of consciousness without drugs, then you're not developed and mature enough to undergo and properly appreciate that state of consciousness, speaking from experience.

As for alcohol and recreational drug use in general, that's your call, but almost all drugs have a negative effect on the energetic anatomy of some kind or another with regular, heavy or long term use.

Hope that helped a little. Good luck.
"The path of the Sage is called
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"

- DDJ, Verse 27

"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett
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Re: Studies on Tantra

Postby corvidus » Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:08 am

Lucca wrote:If you got book recommendations on Tantra, I would love to hear it.

Love, folks.


The only other person I've heard talk about Tantra (on a forum) referenced E.J. Gold quite a bit.
After looking him up, he has various books: Tantric Sex, The Book of Sacraments, The Hidden Work
May be worth checking out :)
Free yourself from the seduction of words.
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Re: Studies on Tantra

Postby Lumpino » Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:50 am

First of all, what in the western meditation centers often presents itself as Tantra, there is only a modified sexual extract without any spiritual content. In the western countries if you really want to practice eastern path, so, you must study many translantions of original eastern texts. Not only a one book like Kaula for example.
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