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Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Postby inMalkuth » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:25 am

So many people interpret Do What Thou Wilt as a license to act and do whatever they like, and it is true; you are meant to experience and experiment. The reason for this is to broaden the human experience, and the laws that we employ that govern what we are allowed to do. Constantly refining and challenging the status quo in search of the "correct path" is necessary and good for our ever evolving number of people, and relations, and resources.

Aiwass gave this to us. Aiwass is not the grand God of Egypt. A more ancient God is Ra, Horus, Thoth and Ma at. These are Gods of knowledge, intelligence, law, life and love. Obviously we are meant to understand the greater implications of morality when we observe the valuable things in the world.

Do What Thou Wilt, and Learn.
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Re: Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Postby violetstar » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:57 am

inMalkuth wrote:So many people interpret Do What Thou Wilt as a license to act and do whatever they like, and it is true; you are meant to experience and experiment. The reason for this is to broaden the human experience, and the laws that we employ that govern what we are allowed to do. Constantly refining and challenging the status quo in search of the "correct path" is necessary and good for our ever evolving number of people, and relations, and resources.

Aiwass gave this to us. Aiwass is not the grand God of Egypt. A more ancient God is Ra, Horus, Thoth and Ma at. These are Gods of knowledge, intelligence, law, life and love. Obviously we are meant to understand the greater implications of morality when we observe the valuable things in the world.

Do What Thou Wilt, and Learn.

The problem with 'Do what thou wilt' as a mandate is firstly that it originates from Rabelais-who said it in a satirical tongue-in-cheek way that Crowley bastardised.Confined to the Occult that 'Law' is probably more acceptable than its application in the everyday world.
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Re: Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Postby Shawn Blackwolf » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:39 pm

@ Violetstar

If you remember me talking about that arrangement of symbols in the other thread equaling 1008 ,
and there were two columns of nine symbols , thus eighteen in total...

The sum of 1 to 18 , inclusive , is 171 ( 1 + 2 + 3 + 4...)

Snake = 171

We have another arrangement of symbols , equaling 1788 , which Crowley knew ;

Now , first , in gematria :

Do = 375

What = 45

Thou = 90

Wilt = 246

= 756

Sephiroth , Numbers , Emanations = 756

However :

Do What Thou Wilt = 756

Shall Be = 30

Whole = 440

Of = 150

Law = 240

+

171

= 1787

There were reasons , as there always are for occult sayings , often based in gematria...

And yes , the ideal of that above , is different in application , due especially to space time placement... [wink]
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Re: Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Postby inMalkuth » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:49 pm

Well, as a goat, I butt heads. I am not a sheep (I failed that) BUT I am not far from a sheep. The difference is that I butt heads, and in order to make clothes out of me you need to skin me alive.

Anyway...

First step in all of this is to recognize a God exists. Pick a God, any God... Got one in mind? Good.

Now think... what is God? Well, God is a few things.

God is:

Very old, if not immortal.
Watching from a superior vantage point, probably aware of all physical activity if not also psychological activity. God from above can at least hear and see what you do.

Now, you may not agree that any God made all of this, but if you think that, then I say... wonder what is NOT possible for a God that could create all of this.

In either case we establish that God is very old, and very aware. As a Being that watches all of this transpire, what would you eventually conclude? Is it unreasonable that you would start to decide what is good and what is bad? Would you not choose favorites of some sort? Would you not want to interact with your favorites and let them know a few things, especially things that would pertain to what we are all doing?

You can say that God loves us all, and I would say God tolerates most of us, but love? Probably not as much as you imagine. I can also say that God has an agenda, and it comes from watching this all unfold, and that Gods agenda is one that is highly moral and righteous. Certainly God knows what is best and what isnt, because He has been watching for so long.

Ask yourself "What does God think of what I say and do" and if you want to go further... "What does God say about what I think?"
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Re: Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Postby Cerber » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:05 pm

inMalkuth wrote:You can say that God loves us all, and I would say God tolerates most of us, but love? Probably not as much as you imagine.

Are you trying to say our God is a bulimic suicidal self hating Emo? Must have some psychological issues, because a healthy person would feel some degree of "self love", I believe.
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Re: Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Postby inMalkuth » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:40 pm

Sort of... Im saying that a personal God is a necessary element to learning how to govern your actions, and the more you identify with this idea, the more refined you will become in understanding.
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Re: Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Postby Cerber » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:57 pm

inMalkuth wrote:Sort of... Im saying that a personal God is a necessary element to learning how to govern your actions..

I am "a necessary element to learning how to govern her actions" to my daughter, she is 2y old, but expect her to reach some level of self sufficiency some time within next 20 years or so.

inMalkuth wrote:..and the more you identify with this idea, the more refined you will become in understanding.

People would be more willing to dive with you in to the unknown if you wouldn't be so "certain" about everything.
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Re: Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Postby inMalkuth » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:39 pm

Ok... From here forward you can preface everything i say with "i think..."
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Re: Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Postby Shawn Blackwolf » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:46 pm

From here forward , take some responsibility , and write that yourself...

That would keep you from getting as much flak...

Don't expect us to insert it for you...

Other options :

IMO = In My Opinion

IME = In My Experience

Or , "in my tradition" , "how / what I believe" , "the way I see it" , etc.

For instance , in *my* tradition , we do not want , nor need a personal god to refer to
to "govern our actions" , nor do we believe in black and white good and evil , right
or wrong , nor care about morals...we care about what is applicable in the moment...

Now , you are not , by your statement , allowing for an atheist to have their opinion ,
which means they do not believe in a god...not my path , but I will defend them and
their right to believe that way...and that does not make them lesser , nor less "refined
in their understanding"...just means they believe differently...

And no , I do not choose "favorites"...each situation in life is different , each magical
situation is different , and I do not play favorites...never did when I was a kid , either...

Playing favorites always got people in trouble , by my observation of others...

Do I care if a god loves me , hates me , or even cares about me ?

No.

Do I feel the same way about a god ?

Yes.

If a god wants to befriend me , will I accept ?

Depends on the god , the situation , the agenda , and if the god is highly moral and righteous ,

no thanks , I'll reject that god...

Do I give a flying f... about what a god thinks of me ?

Not really , just don't get in my way...there are many stories of those who went up against the gods...

Some won , some did not...

There are a number of us who rebel at the thought of any god trying to tell us what to do , *if* we
even choose to believe in a god...some of us are outright what could be called , in one tradition ,
though it is a name I am only using to illustrate a point , Luciferians... [wink]

As I said..."in *my* Tradition"... [thumbup]
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Re: Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Postby chowderpope » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:15 pm

I'm sure your patience and helpfulness will go completely unappreciated.

I totally agree with you on that last post, Shawn, and Cerber mentioned it earlier too. One of the reasons inMalkuth gets on so many nerves is he states these half baked, confused ideas as absolute fact. He writes them as if they are commandments or something. I'd like to see him present his ideas in this thread to actual Thelemites and watch them eat him alive. He'd react by telling them they're all immature intellects, I'm sure. Anyway, I'm not going to refer to him directly or engage in his threads too much anymore, except to watch the trainwreck and giggle to myself. Why? I don't think he wants to change at all. He thinks he knows it all, his approach is preachy, and anyone who doesn't like it is the problem. He's socially dense, it seems.
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Re: Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Postby inMalkuth » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:34 pm

You do realize that you are all doing exactly the same thing you accuse me of doing, right?
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Re: Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Postby Cerber » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:46 pm

inMalkuth wrote:You do realize that you are all doing exactly the same thing you accuse me of doing, right?

No, I always (90% of the time) insert at least once one of the these: "I think", "I believe". Sometimes I go fancy over the top with something like "I might be wrong, but from my PERSONAL experience and gut feeling.." or something as elaborate. Even on occasions when I'm 99% certain I'm probably right.
There can't be any 100% certainty in anything ever (neither: religion, magic(k) or even science), in my personal opinion and believes. Uncertainty is one of the cornerstones in my "religion".
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Re: Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Postby Shawn Blackwolf » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:49 pm

Hmmm...

I guess you refuse to see I said twice "in *my* tradition" , in my post , as I often ( not always ) do...

And , sometimes I do use IMO , or IME...

So , no , I would disagree...I am not perfect with it , yet I do try to cover those bases , generally...

And I do try not to make blanket statements such as the idea above ,

"Certainly God knows what is best and what isnt, because He has been watching for so long."

or :

"First step in all of this is to recognize a God exists."

Or others of that type in this or other threads...

So , no , we do not all do what we are calling you on , at the very least with the frequency you do... [wink]
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Re: Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Postby Shawn Blackwolf » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:55 pm

Cerber wrote:No, I always (90% of the time) insert at least once one of the these: "I think", "I believe". Sometimes I go fancy over the top with something like "I might be wrong, but from my PERSONAL experience and gut feeling.." or something as elaborate. Even on occasions when I'm 99% certain I'm probably right.
There can't be any 100% certainty in anything ever (neither: religion, magic(k) or even science), in my personal opinion and believes. Uncertainty is one of the cornerstones in my "religion".


You might like this... [wink]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BdTgPhrEHA
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Re: Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Postby Cerber » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:06 pm

Shawn Blackwolf wrote:You might like this... [wink]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BdTgPhrEHA

Must the the first time you've posted something worth a silver coin, in my humble opinion [grin]

Didn't watch all of it, but based on the opening couple minutes seems like a smart man speaking smart things. I've added that to my "watch later", cheers [thumbup]
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Re: Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Postby Shawn Blackwolf » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:33 pm

Well , I am glad your "humble opinion" is not all that matters... [grin]

However , I am pleased to have found something to interest you... [thumbup]

And yes , look into Robert Anton Wilson...there are many you tubes of him speaking...
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Re: Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Postby OrderoftheSerpent » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:21 am

I take the Will of Do What Thou Wilt as true will, which I believe Crowley did as well. It's not just to do whatever experiments in a chaos magic type way, it's to find and walk the best possible path for the individual self. Imo Aiwass is the only speaker of AL, using illustrative language. Interestingly, Crowley at one point was considering a connection between Aiwass and Set, as well as Melek Taus of the Yezidi.
"You look up into the night sky - whether as a child or an adult - and if you open yourself honestly, then it is a gateway to mystery, to the unknown."
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Re: Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Postby Shawn Blackwolf » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:30 am

Which Kenneth Grant furthered , in his Skoob Books , by linking them directly...

I do not agree with Grant on many things , yet he did find and make some interesting links... [wink]
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Re: Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Postby OrderoftheSerpent » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:34 pm

Shawn Blackwolf wrote:Which Kenneth Grant furthered , in his Skoob Books , by linking them directly...

I do not agree with Grant on many things , yet he did find and make some interesting links... [wink]


I'm on the same page with you there!
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Re: Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Postby violetstar » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:09 pm

Shawn Blackwolf wrote:Which Kenneth Grant furthered , in his Skoob Books , by linking them directly...

I do not agree with Grant on many things , yet he did find and make some interesting links... [wink]

Thats the intriguing part about Grant,he mixed his fiction with fact which makes for interesting reading.The mish mash of ideologies tend to read as gibberish nowadays and its fast becoming old hat.This is reflected in the slump of interest in both Grants and Crowleys books.

I think that you are wise to disagree on many things concerning Grants ideas.
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Re: Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Postby inMalkuth » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:43 pm

I feel the need to outline my thoughts.

I have taken many stances in posting on web forums. I have yet to find a satisfactory way to present my ideas and questions that will encourage a healthy discussion on what I am talking about, or trying to understand. I have been the peasant seeker asking for help. I have been the speculative thinker saying "I might know...", I have been the commanding YOU MUST HEAR THIS AND DO THIS. I have settled upon making declarative statements that I believe, because I assume that my reader is not going to act like a peasant, that they have an opinion on my subject matter, and that they will consider my view as I would consider theirs.

What I do not expect is to be ridiculed for my presentation, or belittled because I made an error in observation. I expect that when I converse with a friend that they will try to clarify my ideas for me based on what they see, and that they will consider what I say and allow it to influence their view. This is what I consider to be an enlightened form of exchange.

I am greatly saddened that I do not find much of that here. We are all here to learn (i would hope).
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Re: Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Postby inMalkuth » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:45 pm

violetstar wrote:
Shawn Blackwolf wrote:Which Kenneth Grant furthered , in his Skoob Books , by linking them directly...

I do not agree with Grant on many things , yet he did find and make some interesting links... [wink]

Thats the intriguing part about Grant,he mixed his fiction with fact which makes for interesting reading.The mish mash of ideologies tend to read as gibberish nowadays and its fast becoming old hat.This is reflected in the slump of interest in both Grants and Crowleys books.

I think that you are wise to disagree on many things concerning Grants ideas.


I dont believe there is a difference between fact and fiction, its all fiction, except for things that actually happened. Fiction and non fiction are only separated by biographical documentation of physical events, and most of the time, even that can be fictional.
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Re: Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Postby violetstar » Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:11 am

inMalkuth wrote:
violetstar wrote:
Shawn Blackwolf wrote:Which Kenneth Grant furthered , in his Skoob Books , by linking them directly...

I do not agree with Grant on many things , yet he did find and make some interesting links... [wink]

Thats the intriguing part about Grant,he mixed his fiction with fact which makes for interesting reading.The mish mash of ideologies tend to read as gibberish nowadays and its fast becoming old hat.This is reflected in the slump of interest in both Grants and Crowleys books.

I think that you are wise to disagree on many things concerning Grants ideas.


I dont believe there is a difference between fact and fiction, its all fiction, except for things that actually happened. Fiction and non fiction are only separated by biographical documentation of physical events, and most of the time, even that can be fictional.

That you argue there is no difference between fact and fiction is seriously worrying.Then you have the audacity to suggest people should respect you.

We are trying to build bridges on this forum.Stupid statements and continued arrogance will bear no fruit.
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Re: Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Postby inMalkuth » Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:53 am

Im not asking you to respect me, Im asking you to respect my rights as I respect yours.

Also, from my understanding, what I say is not a lie or preposterous. What is real, anyway? A car drove into a building. That is real. What the driver of the car was thinking, and how it was observed by those at the scene will change depending on who tells the tale. That is just one way that "reality" is fictional.

When it comes to angels, gods, devils, names of things, definitions of things... that is all dependent on one persons experiences as corroborated by another, and two people do not define reality for 8 billion (yet they can and do). Especially when it comes to the occult, much of it is fiction. What isnt fictional is what it represents in the way of describing a car.
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Re: Do What Thou Wilt and learn.

Postby inMalkuth » Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:52 am

The fountain of love which is the heart is to be followed in accordance to do what thou wilt. This is a spiritual law, and an emotional law. Aiwass was a spiritual adept, it is not meant to be a political law.
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