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Advice pls help me

Re: Advice pls help me

Postby violetstar » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:47 pm

Cerber wrote:I understand where you are coming from, I do, but I'm terrible sexist and I just couldn't help but notice you launching missiles at a girl half your age for merely expressing her general disapproval, not aimed at only you, of what we have created here (or attempted to create). I wanted this place to grow out of a "book club" in to a "playground" where many different realities, even the wacky and crazy ones could coexist in peace. But it seems we still have long way to go [sadface]

Thank you Cerber for your realistic overview.Firstly,I did not 'have' to resurrect the post but I chose to in attempt to highlight how the forum was viewed from the outside.I receive lots of feedback on this and though it would be easy to simply ignore emails regarding how this forum has in their view degenerated into a notice board of silly thoughts,nonsensical ideas and a repository of pseudo-Occult information,I decided to review the topics posted and the 'advice' given over the last six months here.

I do not need to defend myself against attacks on my academic prowess that I use to pinpoint valid problems within belief systems that are often forged by authors who themselves have no experience in practising the things they advise others to take on.In highlighting flawed and even forged information the genuine and more commited Occultist is able to adjust,ditch or retain the information by comparison to and accounting for any new knowledge gleaned from ongoing research,empirical analysis from actual practitioners and of course from recourse to the actual original documents and MSS that are often at odds with modern interpretations that will lead the unwary into a cul-de-sac of error and inherent failure to accurately connect to the system in hand.

To suggest I need to study 'properly' is a rather bizzare and ignorant remark when in all fairness I had offered the chance for several people here to substantiate what were clearly not listed as a personal belief but arrogantly claimed as universalisms and truths that we should accept without question.Rather than attempt to substantiate or validate those claims,the response was hostile,abusive and destructive.Such responses added nothing to the chance for others to assess the information with any degree of accuracy but what it did acheive was to further oust any interest from serious Occult students who inevitably moved on elsewhere.

I can understand Cerber's idea of a balance between fun and the more serious side of things but sadly terms like 'playground' and 'wacko' has in rcent times reflected the sum total of this forum rather than an element of it.He is correct.There is a long way to go to achieve a balanced and friendly community wherein we can learn and evolve together.Critical is how we discern what is a personal belief and what can be safely accepted by the majority as a useable and reliable corpus of information that turns hypothesis into actual result.

Despite what people may assume,I find the 'Book Club' thing immensely boring but only a fool believes we should burn all learned works and rely only on the ideas forwarded by others.Another well worn myth is borne from an assumption that anyone holding academic based views is not an Occultist,witch or Shaman.In reality the reverse is true and many Occultist's past and present-and indeed the authors of the medieval Grimoires were and are academics often at the highest levels of scholarship.No-one needs to take my word on this but simple internet research will quickly show me to be correct.This blend of academia(or even mundane Googling)and reflections of undertakings by practitioners is aptly termed 'Occulture' and for the serious student it is the way ahead in a magical world haunted by advice from the un-Initiated,the mis-informed and books purprting their authors to be proficient and learned but in fact in places have no more experience than the student attempting to make sense of what they write.

I reserve the right to challenge information I suspect misleading,flawed or designed to instigate a spiritual undertaking that will waste peoples time.Forums are crammed full of it and today anyone who looks around will see how the internet has been beseiged by self-appointed experts who have commanded every known demon,enabled a direct line to God and everything one can imagine.These shouts are born from ego,a desire for an 'otherness' that quenches the fear of just being who you are and a desperate attempt to build an image that will fit in.

Finally,due to feedback received and antagonistic replies to postings I had made elsewhere,I ceased to post links to academic papers or articles that seemed to expose the fears of some forum members who had complained that the facts were a contraindication of their beliefs.
I also took into account how Desecrated had admonished my approach by reminding me this forum was not a 'Cambridge Meet-Up' and that he advised non-academic jargon wherever possible.Given that I still refuse to dumb-down in order to placate the cyber bully and the antagonist-however well they disguise their attempts.
Woe if I reveal,Woe if I do not reveal...
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Re: Advice pls help me

Postby Shawn Blackwolf » Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:04 pm

If I could only believe that , Cerber , but I do not...

I believe you , and can understand your desire , and feel similarly...

Yet , Violetstar started in on me very shortly after I came here , and
has persisted to criticize me and my Tradition , beliefs , and practices...

If it was a general point she *was* trying to make , she did not have to
use *that* quote , from Desecrated , especially not the whole thing which
was specifically an insult to me from Desecrated...

One of my normal human capabilities , not even a magically developed
one is smelling nastiness and bullshit in someone's words , IRL , or their
cyberwords on the web...I am 63 , and very tired of dealing with it...

I admn five forums now , and I would not let someone continue to do that...

So , shall we move on , beyond this , and just let it go to sleep and die
again , like it was before Violetstar started it up again ?

I would much prefer that , as it was better that way for all... [thumbup]

I read your response before I posted this , Violetstar , and the truth is
to know whether my Tradition is valid , one *must* do the work with the
system for years , before claiming it works or does not...

Just the way it has always been , and will continue to be...

There is no shortcut to know , otherwise...

I find those who are academically inclined many times to lack a sense of humor ,
play , and fun , *while* learning , and I personally would not want to see any forum
or site to be as dry as you seem to prefer...

So you can claim hostility from others , including me...I claim the same from you ,
and I only returned in kind , what came at me...whether you see it that way or not... [wink]
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Re: Advice pls help me

Postby violetstar » Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:00 pm

As stated those opinions were not entirely my own but those of the viewers who commented on the Occult worth of this forum in recent times.Anyone who cares to review how newbies have been treated with sarcasms,belittlement and general ridiclule will then realise the reason they never returned.
My challenge to your traditions and claims were valid and by doing so highlighted the need to differentiate between personal ideologies and past magical systems that can be both tested as valid means to spiritual emlightenment and therefore substantiated in their claims.This will save time and energy spent on ideas that can never find fruition at any level.

Regarding my 'dry' approach.it appears you were not aware of my own instigation of having a laugh on forums elsewhere to the point where I had been warned to toe the official line.Those who did see it will know what I mean.Sorry you missed the party.
It makes absolutely no difference to me what you claim,how many forums you administer or how you believe people see you or to what extent they find any practicality in your ideas.Likewise I am not concerned how others see me or my methodologies.

Quite simply my input on this was to show why people no longer took this forum seriously.They did-once upon a time but rather than continue to address your caustic remarks across the board I am content to leave it in the hands of the Admin here and to echo your own remark,I would no longer tolerate trolling at the expense of losing valuable insights from members who have refrained from posting for fear of sarcastic or nonsense replies to their attempts to aid others.

That's how it is in real time like it or not.
Woe if I reveal,Woe if I do not reveal...
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Re: Advice pls help me

Postby Shawn Blackwolf » Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:11 pm

I can agree to disagree with you , as I have always offered...

Yeah , sorry I missed the party with you , that would have been fun ,
just like this board was started from what I understand were chaos
magicians...I would think Eris , and the discordians would have been
here , and that would have been fun...

I know this board has a history of people who laughed and played ,
because I was on other sites with them , long ago...

I was recommended to this board by a former member now known as Wolf...

He felt I had good info to offer , that is why I came...

I really wish you had expressed your feelings about the board , without
quoting Desecrated's nasty post to me...that would have showed you were
not intending to be caustic...or insulting to me...( again )

I have no problem with the way others help those who ask for help...

I only have a problem if they make "universal statements" their way is the
only , or best way...then I comment , as is the purpose of a forum board...

This seems to be a sticking point for us , and perhaps you , and those who
agree with you , and others who do not see things your way :

"that can be both tested as valid means to spiritual emlightenment and therefore substantiated in their claims."

Not everything can be tested by the methods you support , or believe in ,
unless it is by years of experimental application of a system , and total
embedment within that system...

Just the way it is , in both physical world time , and magical time...

What I have always tried to tell you , is I accept your ways *for you* ;

But I do not have to prove my system , Tradition , practice , or beliefs
to anyone , as I know they are valid , and work...as have many others
throughout time , to the present moment ;

All I want to do , is share those , peacefully , as I have on this site and
others , for those who can , and often do , benefit from them ;

I just wish you would back off a little ( or more ) and allow me to do that ,
without harassment...

I would as well hope you can get past your accusations of trolling , and look
at all I have contributed to this site in knowledge of my Tradition , and system
of magic , code , and information...that would be a good thing , in "real time"...

I would extend peace , ( and still do ) yet I am wary of getting my hand bit off again...

So let us leave it as if you cease to bite at me , I will not be tempted to bite back... [thumbup]
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Re: Advice pls help me

Postby violetstar » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:08 pm

I recognise that peoples perception of things vary greatly.To add greater awareness to that perception I believe enlightenment from others is appreciated by the serious Seeker but scorned by those who maintain they are right in spite of hard facts presented to them.

I myself parade around mysticisms and folklore based information that have no valid sources that can be cited to support them.On the other hand I may challenge statements I can demonstrate are flawed or needing revision by those making them.I then present the generally accepted facts that indicate possible erroneous lines of thought within the offered statement.This way,by comparing,the people can judge for themselves and weigh things up.

You should have noticed my lack of input to hundreds of posts and topics on the forum.Simply this is because I deemed the majority of held no useful Occult value worth pursuing.Conversely,when I made challenge it signified a worthwhile exercise for all involved.

I am content to leave it here and to accept the peace offering for the greater good and to help Cerber realise his attempts to construct or revive a friendly community here within a shorter time scale.

You got me wrong Shawn but I forgive you.
Woe if I reveal,Woe if I do not reveal...
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Re: Advice pls help me

Postby Shawn Blackwolf » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:53 pm

Funny how things work , Violetstar...

Because I often challenge those who claim new age "science" is fact
elsewhere , on other sites , when people do not present empirical
data...isn't that hilarious ?

Some "arguments" have gone on for pages... [lol]

"You got me wrong Shawn but I forgive you."

Vice Versa , is my feeling , but now we are at least on the same page ,
Violetstar...I do think part of it was the feeling of being "dogpiled"
by you and Desecrated at the same time...and you two seemed to be
alike in your thinking...

Something you should know , just for info...

I *never* went to college , but I more than had the grades and opportunity ;
I chose the college of life on the road , in the 1970's , and learning by hard
experience , and reading more books than most people even could dream of...

But I also watched tons of movies , read stacks of Scientific Americans , learned
from those I met , lived in communes , on organic farms , worked with rednecks ,
left New Orleans as the utility supervisor on the Mississippi Queen , was an artist ,
poet , writer , ran businesses for others and myself , represented 160 artists from
around the country and world , supplied book cover , album covers , and illustrations
to major publishers , put on up to 5,000sq foot art shows , was in the middle of the
whole new age movement , saw the good and bullshit , lived on mountaintops alone
for up to a year , spoke with elders from many world traditions , learned techniques
of healing and magic , supplied the Rosicrucian Museum with Egyptian Statuary ,
spent years in nature , listening , watching , learning...was a Tantric practitioner...

All while staying focused on my magical path...that is the way I have learned , and
learned what works , and what doesn't...***for me***...

I do not believe any of us can ever judge what will work for another , nor should we ;

I state that we are all wired with a certain code , yes...

But the possibility matrix of that is so vast , it creates as many ways to attain knowledge ,
which hopefully will become wisdom , if applied , as there are human beings ;

I am glad you do what you do , and your goal is helping others and yourself , find the truth
for them and you...that is honorable ;

I am the same...those are my goals as well ;

I could *never* follow the path you do...I am sure the reverse is true for you...

That is why I want to be honored for following my path , and would choose to do so , and
do choose so , regarding others , if they meet me on equal , though different ground...

Let us and others here work harder , while having fun , to make this a better place...

Thank you for being willing , as am I... [thumbup]
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Re: Advice pls help me

Postby violetstar » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:57 am

Hope you all enjoy yourselves here as much as these people [thumbup]

Woe if I reveal,Woe if I do not reveal...
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Re: Advice pls help me

Postby Shawn Blackwolf » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:19 pm

LOL !

As just one person , I post the sweet joy of one revenged ,
though I only remember it from another life... [wink]
( click on image )
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Re: Advice pls help me

Postby Cerber » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:52 pm

Peace be upon you, my dear friends.
Image
I respect you both equally. Not equally little, but equally a lot. Even though all our realities couldn't be more different, I believe we have more to gain looking for common ground (be it a common speck of sand if it may), than by measuring our differences, for those we bear immeasurable abundance.
It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.
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