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Differences between Satan, Lucifer, and The Devil

Re: Differences between Satan, Lucifer, and The Devil

Postby ExCineribus » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:44 am

Cybernetic_Jazz wrote:Out of curiosity, do you think you've found your theodicy yet and if so are there any particular mystic/magic orders that hit it dead on or at least pretty close?

I'm in a position where I tend toward the material optimist camps. I'm in two Rosicrucian groups, also very interested in eventually finding a good Martinist order albeit while they seem to be 'where it's at' in the occult-tech they also tend to, at least as far as I can tell, lean on the fence between material optimism and pessimism.


I am not, nor have I ever been, in any of such society. When I was in college, in what I would call the absolute worst period in my life (my first real heartbreak), I searched for the divine one of the only ways I knew how - by looking for material about a plethora of different religions and mystical orders. I read quite a bit, from Babylonian to Egyptian to Buddhism/Hindu/Hebrew/Christian/Satanism... Gnosticism/Freemasonry/Hermeticism/Rosicrucianism/Golden Dawn/OAS/Wiccan/Thelema/OTO/Druidism and so on, even some works by philosophers for good measure. I tried some pretty weird stuff, and learned quite a bit - who knew tears tasted so sweet? Ultimately, though, it wasn't through books or my own efforts that I encountered God... it was through other people.

I have considered joining a society of some sort, since I have remained interested in such topics, and have even wrote to a couple and talked to some people... but they refused to let me opt out of certain oaths so I chose not to pursue that any further.
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Re: Differences between Satan, Lucifer, and The Devil

Postby Cybernetic_Jazz » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:07 am

TY

I guess my question on the top of that quote - it seems like while most western and eastern mystery traditions share reincarnation, chakras, astral/etheric layers of being, they tend to have different stories of origin and different concepts of what constitutes the general shape of evil and that being the case it also tends to cause subtle variances in what they consider to be success in God's eyes in overcoming the trials and stepping off the karmic wheel. I was just wondering if you found anything that lead you to a particularly strong belief one way or another regarding whether it's a localized illusion, astral light under confusion of people who don't know they're using it, an actual accuser essentially delegated by The One to see what we're made of, etc..
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Re: Differences between Satan, Lucifer, and The Devil

Postby ExCineribus » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:47 am

Cybernetic_Jazz wrote:TY

I guess my question on the top of that quote - it seems like while most western and eastern mystery traditions share reincarnation, chakras, astral/etheric layers of being, they tend to have different stories of origin and different concepts of what constitutes the general shape of evil and that being the case it also tends to cause subtle variances in what they consider to be success in God's eyes in overcoming the trials and stepping off the karmic wheel. I was just wondering if you found anything that lead you to a particularly strong belief one way or another regarding whether it's a localized illusion, astral light under confusion of people who don't know they're using it, an actual accuser essentially delegated by The One to see what we're made of, etc..


Ah, I see. I don't think it's merely any one of those things.

Modern science on more than one front, at least both quantum physics and genetics, have made remarkable breakthroughs in recent years which seem to make extremely convincing arguments that do indeed question the very nature of existence - and which potentially could lead to some rather shocking conclusions in the years to come, like confirming a 'localized' illusion or simulation. The strongest argument perhaps being the nature of space and time itself... if theories supporting time itself being quantized is true, then that would be an almost inescapable conclusion. At the same time, it would seem to confirm much of what is written about the nature of deity, and could explain how a supreme Deity could be omnipotent and omnipresent and still not violate the laws of our understanding of this reality (physics), for example. Statements such as "the high and lofty one that inhabits eternity" would finally make more sense. That would be a rather remarkable achievement for science, but it's not an absolute given yet.

With that in mind, it would not be a huge leap at all to understand how something like astral travel or astral light could be possible as well. It would be the nature of the state here, and the state somewhere else outside of this plane of existence. Similar, perhaps, to how quantum entanglement works - a particle's state can instantaneously effect its state no matter the distance, seemingly sending information faster than the speed of light. There would be nothing necessarily preventing entangling something in this existence with something outside of this existence, or in other words separating the object state from the implementation, though to be clear this is a separate concept than dreaming.

And finally, it may not be a huge leap to suggest that the system itself was created as a proving grounds of sorts, with the idea of an accuser/devils and angels playing roles. In other words, all three statements may simultaneously have elements of truth. Yet, at the end of the day, the here and now is very real - and just as important. There is good work to do in the world, and not enough good people to do it. In closing, as I head to sleep, I will leave you with one of my favorite poems by Poe:

Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
Thus much let me avow —
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream;
Yet if hope has flown away
In a night, or in a day,
In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

I stand amid the roar
Of a surf-tormented shore,
And I hold within my hand
Grains of the golden sand —
How few! yet how they creep
Through my fingers to the deep,
While I weep — while I weep!
O God! Can I not grasp
Them with a tighter clasp?
O God! can I not save
One from the pitiless wave?
Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?

-Edgar Allen Poe
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Re: Differences between Satan, Lucifer, and The Devil

Postby Klavier » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:34 pm

What do you mean if they are the same? "Lucifer" is the name of a Roman pagan god which represented the planet Venus and was worshiped. In Isaiah, there's a reference to a king of Babylon who wanted to be superior than God. This passage however is interpreted as an indirect reference to Satan. Throughout the whole New Testament the Devil and Satan are mentioned too many times (the first one being a title, the second being a name). In the Book of Revelation however John identifies the Devil with Satan ("And the great dragon was hurled down, that ancient serpent, called the Devil and Satan, the one who leads the whole world astray, was hurled down to the earth and his angels were hurled down with him.") So, according to this verse, the Devil has come to be Satan and the serpent of Eden. Everything else is derived from these, including every single type of "Satanism" and "Devil worshiping" which proclaim that they don't have anything to do with the biblical Devil or that they don't even believe in him as an entity.
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Re: Differences between Satan, Lucifer, and The Devil

Postby wicker558 » Thu May 01, 2014 5:26 pm

Satan is Sataniel, fallen archangel, too called Lucifer
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Re: Differences between Satan, Lucifer, and The Devil

Postby Etu Malku » Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:25 am

wicker558 wrote:Satan is Sataniel, fallen archangel, too called Lucifer

You obviously didn't read one word of this entire thread [yay]
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Re: Differences between Satan, Lucifer, and The Devil

Postby Hadit » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:17 pm

Satan is a title meaning adversary, which honestly makes it a pretty useless term. Lucifer can either be a title meaning "light-bearer" or the goddess Venus/Lilith/Ishtar/etc. The devil is the christian devil. That's about it.
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Re: Differences between Satan, Lucifer, and The Devil

Postby hyperion5225 » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:18 pm

fun topic that i have studied a bit, well quite a bit

from a Jungian perspective , light means knowledge , morning means hope. making Lucifer the knowledge bringer and the son of hope ( as stated above also terms for Jesus.) this is more of an archetype than a single entity, Lucifer , Prometheus , Loki , all gods that furthered humanity and where punished for it, and while Azazel is close to this relationship he was punished for different reasons leading me to believe he is a separate entity.

Satan is one of a group of angels as mentioned above, still one with god but used to tempt humans- like an executioner, still accepted but with a bad job, that is why he is still in gods presence and can converse with him ( and even make bets) see job for that explanation

they are different from each other , like two sides of a coin, or more like a hexagram, Lucifer being that which strives upward, the fire , the light that is restrained - Satan is the other, pulling to earth, that which is earth and holds us down , giving us pleasure

it is by mastery of both that we reach enlightenment ,


so are they entity's are just archetypes for the human mind? i guess that's for each of us to figure out


and the devil? he just seems like a catholic myth to scare away horned god followers to be honest
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Re: Differences between Satan, Lucifer, and The Devil

Postby Etu Malku » Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:18 pm

Hadit wrote:Satan is a title meaning adversary, which honestly makes it a pretty useless term. Lucifer can either be a title meaning "light-bearer" or the goddess Venus/Lilith/Ishtar/etc. The devil is the christian devil. That's about it.
Far from useless . . . the ideal behind the Adverse Archetype is anchored in the LHP statement "Wisdom through Adversity" . . . anyone that has ever accomplished something in this World of Horrors can claim this experience, from child birth to learning an instrument, to learning to walk again, to complete wealth. That which challenges us and makes us stronger both physically as well as mentally & spiritually is of the South / Fire / Satan.

Lucifer is far more than the simplistic 'light bearer/bringer' of Latin and may have ties with some Feminine archetypes but is far more useful and productive as the personification of the Light born within the Dark.
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Re: Differences between Satan, Lucifer, and The Devil

Postby RaineAshford » Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:15 pm

TheSpoonyOne wrote:All right, I have heard many different theories on this subject, and cannot be sure which is correct, or the most commonly accepted. Some people say that Satan, Lucifer, and the Devil, are three separate entities, while some say they are the same. I've heard others say that Satan and the Devil are the same while others believe Lucifer and Satan are the same being. Never Lucifer and Satan though...

I just wanted to know what people here thought on the topic. Illuminate my mind a bit.


Note how you were compelled not to put "Devil" and "Lucifer" together.

By Lucifers power of suggestion I'd imagine Spoony.

You put Satan and Lucifer together, and Satan and Devil together.

The Devil's Lucifer. God Emperor of Hell.
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Re: Differences between Satan, Lucifer, and The Devil

Postby Hadit » Sat Jun 13, 2015 2:32 am

Etu Malku wrote:
Hadit wrote:Satan is a title meaning adversary, which honestly makes it a pretty useless term. Lucifer can either be a title meaning "light-bearer" or the goddess Venus/Lilith/Ishtar/etc. The devil is the christian devil. That's about it.
Far from useless . . . the ideal behind the Adverse Archetype is anchored in the LHP statement "Wisdom through Adversity" . . . anyone that has ever accomplished something in this World of Horrors can claim this experience, from child birth to learning an instrument, to learning to walk again, to complete wealth. That which challenges us and makes us stronger both physically as well as mentally & spiritually is of the South / Fire / Satan.

Lucifer is far more than the simplistic 'light bearer/bringer' of Latin and may have ties with some Feminine archetypes but is far more useful and productive as the personification of the Light born within the Dark.


All people are adversaries, making the title meaningless.
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Re: Differences between Satan, Lucifer, and The Devil

Postby darktruth77 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:41 pm

Klavier wrote:What do you mean if they are the same? "Lucifer" is the name of a Roman pagan god which represented the planet Venus and was worshiped. In Isaiah, there's a reference to a king of Babylon who wanted to be superior than God. This passage however is interpreted as an indirect reference to Satan. Throughout the whole New Testament the Devil and Satan are mentioned too many times (the first one being a title, the second being a name). In the Book of Revelation however John identifies the Devil with Satan ("And the great dragon was hurled down, that ancient serpent, called the Devil and Satan, the one who leads the whole world astray, was hurled down to the earth and his angels were hurled down with him.") So, according to this verse, the Devil has come to be Satan and the serpent of Eden. Everything else is derived from these, including every single type of "Satanism" and "Devil worshiping" which proclaim that they don't have anything to do with the biblical Devil or that they don't even believe in him as an entity.

Actually you are right. There is no real collection about Lucifer( Venus) Satan Also Satan is totally different from the pagan deity lucifer which represented the planet Venus and was worshiped. Also the Satan seems much better than Lucifer as He has the power to create a war by his word. And maybe He is omnipresent because he can affect all people at the same time. But i am still researching about these things.
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Re: Differences between Satan, Lucifer, and The Devil

Postby inMalkuth » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:03 pm

It would seem to me that the point of any of this discussion lies in the fact of what the name/title represents to the religion in question. I tried pointing this out in the other thread but I got mocked and ridiculed, called a troll and a child.
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Re: Differences between Satan, Lucifer, and The Devil

Postby darktruth77 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:10 pm

inMalkuth wrote:It would seem to me that the point of any of this discussion lies in the fact of what the name/title represents to the religion in question. I tried pointing this out in the other thread but I got mocked and ridiculed, called a troll and a child.

You may have a point because every name represent something different according to its meaning/religion etc. Nut there some ancient texts and religious texts where a name is appeared first like bible and religions who worshiped Satan in the old times centuries before Lavey and Jos so its most legit to count on the first sources and to first Satanists (before and after Christianity) rather than the modern satanists.
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Re: Differences between Satan, Lucifer, and The Devil

Postby proudpagan » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:16 am

TheSpoonyOne wrote: Some people say that Satan, Lucifer, and the Devil, are three separate entities, while some say they are the same. I've heard others say that Satan and the Devil are the same while others believe Lucifer and Satan are the same being. Never Lucifer and Satan though...


Satan basically is a hebrew word meaning adversary . "Satnam" and "Sa Ta Na Ma" are sacred mantras used in kundalini (serpent) meditation. The five primal sounds in Ancient Sanskrit, one of the oldest known languages are "SA-TA-NA-MA." "Sa" means infinity; Ta means life; Na means death; and Ma means rebirth. All variations of the name "SATAN" mean TRUTH in Sanskrit, which is one of the world's oldest and most ancient of languages.

"Lucifer" is also given to our Satan as a name. Lucifer is originally a Roman God with no connection to our Father Satan/Ea. The prefix "Luc" has to do with light. The soul needs light. The morning star, Venus, was a source of light for the ancients as its rising preceded the all-important sun. Venus also rules the important heart chakra.

Devil again comes from root Sanskrit word Devi (hindu/vedic goddess)

its just the names . Different names given by different people as per the region . But its just the same God .

Hope that helps uwu
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Re: Differences between Satan, Lucifer, and The Devil

Postby Cerber » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:57 am

..or Devil > dEvil > D Evil. Not A Evil, not even B or C, but just forth in line - D Evil.
..or Devil is nothing but mispronounced jargonism of "the Evil".. "da Evil".. "dEvil.. "Devil"
Booom! Mind blown.. O0
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