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Questions from someone who knows nothing about magic.

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Questions from someone who knows nothing about magic.

Postby Bobertt » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:40 pm

I tried posting this once before but i didnt see it go through so im posting it again. In case it was just being reviewed the first time and gets reposted jist ignore second one then.

Just some background information, i was raised as a christian but have always been curious about the supernatural or things science can't explain. I saw some posts online about people talking about their experiences with summoning demons from the Lesser Key of Solomon and it was different from what i would have expected so i started to google magic and saw a post on this forum about books for beginners and started reading Modern Magick by Donald Michael Kraig.

Im still only early into the book but from more googling and reading other people's experiences ive gotten a bit confused about what to expect. So here are my questions:

1) Can anyone do magic and see physical results if they put in the required effort or will some people just not have the energy or whatever is needed to get magic to work regardless of what they do?

2) In regards to summoning spirits can you use the Christian version of God to summon them and to try and protect yourself if something goes wrong? If yes how does that work with the Bible saying God doesn't like those who practice magic and divination? Can you practice magic and still be a Christian?

3) If you do summonings and ask angels or demons for something do you have to worship or pray to them like you would God?

4) From your experiences what do Demons or Angels usually want as payment and what can you actually get them to do for you? For example can they do something like making you physically stronger or losing weight without giving you the energy or motivation to workout.

5) Why do a lot of literature and people say Demons will try to harm or find anyway to twist a deal with them and hate humans but some of the people online claim to have good experiences with them and even talk to them like friends? Are they lying to get you to go in with your guard down for a Demon to take advantage?

6) Can you practice magic and be poor or will you need to have a decent amount of money to pay for the objects needed?

7) From the little i have read i seem to like ceremonial magic but seeing as i do not know much where would you recommend starting?

8) What can i expect to be able to gain from doing magic and what can i expect to lose? If too many possibilities what would you say you have gained and lost?

I know from reading other posts summonings aren't really for beginners but i want to get an idea of what i can expect as an end goal. Plus i wouldn't want to dedicate a lot of time to it and then reach something im not comfortable with doing and quit. Thanks in advance if you answer any of my questions and sorry if i posted this in the wrong spot.
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Re: Questions from someone who knows nothing about magic.

Postby Hound » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:57 pm

1) Can anyone do magic and see physical results if they put in the required effort or will some people just not have the energy or whatever is needed to get magic to work regardless of what they do?


Anyone can preform any type of magic, working, or path with enough time, dedication, and practice. However, like every other skill that we perfect over the course of our lives, magic(k) takes just as much time. You will not see immediate results for most anything. It takes a bit of work to get to where you want to be, and then some.

Building that skill and honing your senses will come over time with said practice.

If you're expecting to gain fantastic physical superpowers, you're going to be severely disappointed. While we can help/harm others and change our lives in certain facets, with enough know how, there are limitations regarding what can and can't be effected. Despite how a person wants to describe it, there is a barrier preventing manifestation of all of the super fantastic things delusional folk like to lay claim to.

2) In regards to summoning spirits can you use the Christian version of God to summon them and to try and protect yourself if something goes wrong? If yes how does that work with the Bible saying God doesn't like those who practice magic and divination? Can you practice magic and still be a Christian?


Would depend, first and foremost, and what you would like to summon. There's a lot more to this world than a singular belief system. But if you are interested in Judaic & Associate mythologies, spirits, and work then yes, you could. And yes, you can protect yourself. Defensive energy work, or magic, has many particular facets to the practice with many ways of going about doing so. You'll come to learn those ways in time through conversation and experience. Secondly, God never said anything. Humans wrote what they 'think' God said, or would have said. The bible is the word of man so if 'God' doesn't take kindly to magic he sure lets a lot of people do it. Considering the following, yes. You can be whatever you want to be and do whatever you want to do.

3) If you do summonings and ask angels or demons for something do you have to worship or pray to them like you would God?


People are going to have varying opinions on this, and I sincerely suggest you get as many as possible. That goes for all of my advice, or anyone else's. But in my opinion, no. If a entity asks you to do so, it would probably be reliant on that particular being. Which you are free to accept or refuse such a thing. But anything can be worshiped. Doesn't mean it should be.

4) From your experiences what do Demons or Angels usually want as payment and what can you actually get them to do for you? For example can they do something like making you physically stronger or losing weight without giving you the energy or motivation to workout.


You won't get buff overnight by asking a demon or angel for a contract. And you won't gain in any major physical way unless you do the work yourself. As for contracts, that depends on what you are asking for and how out of their way the entity would likely have to go, which would effect the cost of such a thing. It can be anything from a minor offering to servitude, really. When I get contracted I usually ask for information in return. So it'll depend on the individual being.

5) Why do a lot of literature and people say Demons will try to harm or find anyway to twist a deal with them and hate humans but some of the people online claim to have good experiences with them and even talk to them like friends? Are they lying to get you to go in with your guard down for a Demon to take advantage?


Well, you have to ask why a lot of the literature exists to answer the majority of those kinds of questions. And then you should always be critical of said literature's authenticity. But in reference to actual behavior of other beings regarding this, if you're weak, if you lower your guard, or if you get in over your head you will likely get taken advantage of, yes. And you'd sooner have that done to you by an angel just as you would 'demon'. Our physical world outside of the safety and comfort of our cities and our society is dog eat dog. It's no different, non-physically. If you can't hold your own, don't poke the lion.

But if you can, indeed, withstand an interaction, make a good trade, and have decent things to offer it's not out of the question to form a working relationship with non-physical beings. Outside of your Judaic focus, mutual and symbiotic/positive interaction with spirits is the basis of many, many other paths. And I have to say I have some favorite clients to work for, that's for sure.

We're conditioned to assume anything 'non-human' is shallow, without thought or emotion, and so on. This couldn't be further from the truth, in my eyes. Especially being within that category myself. Other beings are just as complex as you are. If you treat them with respect and honor your contracts, you're likely to win their favor. Just like with any old joe who lives down the street from you.

6) Can you practice magic and be poor or will you need to have a decent amount of money to pay for the objects needed?


Doesn't cost a penny to educate yourself.

If you feel the 'need' for books, outside tools, and other objects, yeah. It can be a little expensive. But you'd be surprised the amount of available resources there are out there that don't cost a thing.

7) From the little i have read i seem to like ceremonial magic but seeing as i do not know much where would you recommend starting?


What do you define as 'ceremonial'? What path related to the ceremony? Do you want to do something specific? Being concise helps, and I think there's a pretty great section on the forum with related material to this. Go read a bit and soak it up.

What can i expect to be able to gain from doing magic and what can i expect to lose? If too many possibilities what would you say you have gained and lost?


Unless you get yourself in over your head, you can't possible lose 'anything' by educating yourself. If you're smart about what you do and how, you'll be fine. What you stand to gain is knowledge, understanding of self from said knowledge, the ability to defend, attack, and modify non-physical sources of being/energy, and potentially once you learn how you can affect your physical life in the way of stability (and other things) via manifesting and grounding particular pathways. But, sorry. You won't be shooting lightning from your finger tips any time soon.
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Re: Questions from someone who knows nothing about magic.

Postby blindwake » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:06 am

1. You'd be surprised what is feasible to manifest physically, but real life isn't harry potter; there are limitations.

An illusion can be just as useful as a physical effect though, and a lot easier.

2. I take a many worlds view on this topic. Anything that could theoretically exist, does in some state, at some time, etc. The spirits you summon will be the ones you expect to summon, generally. If you think you need to pray and worship, you might need to. A person is their own primary limitation.

5. Literature says all sorts of stuff. Take it with a grain of salt.

6. You can visualize the tools if need be. None of your ritual has to be physical. You could do it all in your head while meditating. Whatever works.

7. Read Initiation into Hermetics. Don't take it too seriously.
If all brains are made roughly the same, then why do I perceive through my own? What special characteristic places me in this skull?
I do not move throughout the world. The engines do not move the ship, but the universe.
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Re: Questions from someone who knows nothing about magic.

Postby Shinichi » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:29 am

Bobertt wrote:1) Can anyone do magic and see physical results if they put in the required effort or will some people just not have the energy or whatever is needed to get magic to work regardless of what they do?


In our "you can grow up to be anything you want!" First World Society, people like to believe and preach that anybody can do anything. This is true to a certain extent, but mostly it's empty platitudes. There is such a thing as talent, and while for most people hard work can make up for lack of talent, there are also folks who are just a dunce at certain things even if they are a genius when it comes to something else. I, for example, am absolutely terrible at computer programming, but I am usually quite good at normal writing. :)

Think about sports. Can pretty much anybody play soccer? Yup, as long as you have a basic degree of health and fitness, anybody can run around a field kicking a ball. Can anybody play soccer professionally or go to the olympics? Nope. There are even those who can't play at all because of, say, a heart condition, or perhaps some other severe disability. People have limits, and nobody can do everything.

Bobertt wrote:2) In regards to summoning spirits can you use the Christian version of God to summon them and to try and protect yourself if something goes wrong? If yes how does that work with the Bible saying God doesn't like those who practice magic and divination? Can you practice magic and still be a Christian?


You can invoke God for some spirits, particularly those in Christian systems like the Key of Solomon, the Arbatel, etc. Other spirits, like the Angry Dead, won't give a shit about all the Golden Dawn's godnames and LBRP's and such.

And yes, you can be a Christian Magician. There have been plenty, and there are many people who view Catholicism as THE system of Christian Magic. There is a saint for literally any problem you could want, there are specific rites and prayers to do for pretty much anything, and all kinds of other stuff.

Bobertt wrote:3) If you do summonings and ask angels or demons for something do you have to worship or pray to them like you would God?


Nah. It's usually polite to pay the spirits for services rendered via some form of Offering, especially demons, but this isn't really worship in the Christian sense. It's more of a simple Honoring, a "hey, thanks for getting me that bonus at work: here's some whiskey."

Bobertt wrote:4) From your experiences what do Demons or Angels usually want as payment and what can you actually get them to do for you? For example can they do something like making you physically stronger or losing weight without giving you the energy or motivation to workout.


Depends. There are certain spirits who can do things like that, but most of them won't want to. If you need to receive some specific thing, like a healing to balance your body in a way that you can get to the weight you need to, then that kind of work can be done. But why would they make it easier for you to be lazy? You think God wants you to use spirits to feed your laziness? Get your ass up and meet the magic half way. If you can do that much, you can easily get an extra boost from the spirits. For something like enhanced strength, it's better to make a talisman or do training like Taiji Quan that teaches you how to lead energy to the muscles.

Payments vary. You can just ask them what they'd like in payment for a particular task, but you shouldn't pay them until after they've done what you ask. Just as you wouldn't pay a plumber in full up front: make the earn their supper. Most of them prefer it that way anyway.

Bobertt wrote:5) Why do a lot of literature and people say Demons will try to harm or find anyway to twist a deal with them and hate humans but some of the people online claim to have good experiences with them and even talk to them like friends? Are they lying to get you to go in with your guard down for a Demon to take advantage?


Many spirits, even more than a few "angels," will gladly manipulate you in order to achieve their agenda. And many modern practitioners have indeed been manipulated as such, albeit unconsciously for most.

Any spirit shady enough to be called "demon" is usually a bit dangerous to deal with, but if you follow protocols (like minding your manners) you can get through it safely. Think of it like seeing your weed dealer or a fuckbuddy that you know does risky things with others. You can navigate such relationships without getting hurt, but you don't wanna just hang out at your dealers house and be best friends (what happens when the cops show up, eh? You get jail time too) and you better wrap up that risky partner unless you want to risk getting a random infection or even something much worse. Simple precautions can keep you from a going through a ton of trouble.

Many spirits, of all kinds, are rather more like politicians. They can smile and shake your hand, but you damn well better believe they have their own agenda, and you better smile back politely and look out for yourself unless you want them taking advantage of you.

Bobertt wrote:6) Can you practice magic and be poor or will you need to have a decent amount of money to pay for the objects needed?


Ceremonial Magic in the Modern sense can be quite expensive. They Keys of Solomon? That kind of work can cost you thousands, just for ritual tools. A lot of practical magic is very cheap, though: herbs (some of which are already in your kitchen), roots, gemstones, metals, etc. Basic sorcery. Read the book The Sorcerer's Secrets by Jason Miller to learn how to get basic spellcraft going.

Also, a practitioner doesn't have to stay poor, even if that's your starting line. Read Financial Sorcery by Jason Miller and The Seven Sphere's by Rufus Opus.

Bobertt wrote:7) From the little i have read i seem to like ceremonial magic but seeing as i do not know much where would you recommend starting?


I, personally, would recommend starting with more fundamental training to build up your inner skills unless you want to end up a LARPer doing empty movements in a funny outfit.

Check out the work of Franz Bardon. He trains you in the basics like meditation, energy work, learning how to see spirits, and all kinds of other things in his first book before he shows you how to summon spirits with ceremonial ritual in his second book.

Bobertt wrote:8) What can i expect to be able to gain from doing magic and what can i expect to lose? If too many possibilities what would you say you have gained and lost?


Depends on what you do and how much you put in. I have completely rid myself of suicidal depression, ADD, and several similar problems, experienced meditations that changed not just me but the entire room I was in, and gained a deep understanding of the energies and spirits of nature - and that's just from doing Bardon's work. In other work I have met spirits and even gods (which isn't as big a deal as some modern practitioners seem to think), experienced spontaneously certain psychic powers, cast spells so profound that they literally changed - and on a couple of occasions, literally saved - my meager life, performed exorcisms, and met people who have done grand things I can only aspire to.

And I have lost just as much. Friends and even family who will never understand or accept who I am and the path I walk, bad habits and flawed ideologies, and entire social circles who could not accept anything outside their own dogmas. Initiation can be as painful as it is liberating, my friend. It will change you, transform you, and empower you, turning you into someone so grand that you never would have imagined becoming such a person as a child. But, like a blacksmith beats out the impurities of his steal, so too will initiation force you to experience the changes necessary to grow and become better. Some changes will come smoothly and some will make you want to die, but come they shall!



~:Shin:~
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