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Does This Count as Shamanism

Does This Count as Shamanism

Postby silverfox615 » Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:28 pm

Again im relatively new to occult stuff although i did not realize shamanism fell into the category. i spent about 5 months studying shamanism under someone who to me to be well versed in it. He described different stones and crystals and their various uses, as well as other symbols, three spirit animals, a spiritual connection with nature, and seeing into the spirit world. these particular rituals involved a variety of naturally occurring hallucinogens, as well fasting, and sleep deprivation. i had some of the most amazing experiences of my life. and i believed in it fully at the time. ive been drug free for over a year now and ive just kinda chalked it all up to tripping too much. I know many traditional shamanistic practices use hallucinogens and im not asking anyone to advocate drugs but Does the occult give these kind of practices any credit or is just drug abuse? thoughts? opinions? questions? thank you for you're time.
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Re: Does This Count as Shamanism

Postby 420 » Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:12 pm

Some occultists are very much against drugs. In my opinion, drugs and magick are intimately interrelated. Castaneda's descriptions of drug use in shamanism should be read by anyone with questions like yours. The current government inspired drug war hysteria serves to seperate society from its roots, it's shamanic heritage, our freedom to explore our minds and do what we please with our own bodies. It is an attempt to control our minds,our spirituality, and control dissent. There's a reason they call DMT the spirit molecule. It's a direct line, with no need of ritual, to a spiritual realm. Do not accept the drug warriors lies. Reject them as easily as you would the claim that the universe was created 6,000 years ago. The future is not on their side. Their ideas will probably be looked back on much like we look back on the Spanish Inquisition.
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Re: Does This Count as Shamanism

Postby Ramscha » Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:19 pm

Abuse is what it is: Abuse.

Use drugs if you think you have to. Do not if you think it is not right. As it is always: Own deed, own responsibility. Don't cry out later or blame someone else because you read somewhere it is necessary or okay to take drugs and you cannot take the consequences.

The occult is simply a header for pretty much own thing: The stuff that is hidden. I see no argument which would speak against counting shamanic practise into that too. Though the word "hidden" might be a little bit out of place nowadays. In the end it is just a word. What you actually do is a different matter.

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Re: Does This Count as Shamanism

Postby silverfox615 » Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:32 pm

thank you both. i certainly felt it was necessary. i have saved others from bodily harm and legal trouble based on visions and with the use of herbs and crystals we learned and had i trusted in my instincts i could have saved myself from the same. again this wasn't something i simply read online this was person i was friends with and trusted who was teaching myself and another friend these things how to read sign during hallucinations and dreams how to interact with spirits and how to seek epiphanies. also i have used dmt its quite an experience although ritual isn't required at the time we practiced one anyway it seemed wrong to use something so powerful without procedure. and i agree with not giving in to the phony war on drugs i personally have forces outside of my control that prevent me from practicing the way i used to but i will also admit there's a difference between someone seeking spiritual enlightenment and getting high to get high there are certainly good drugs and bad drugs and Ive done almost all of both. any advocate of free will should be wary of drugs that will take away your free will.
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Re: Does This Count as Shamanism

Postby Atehequa » Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:19 am

420 wrote:Some occultists are very much against drugs. In my opinion, drugs and magick are intimately interrelated. Castaneda's descriptions of drug use in shamanism should be read by anyone with questions like yours. The current government inspired drug war hysteria serves to seperate society from its roots, it's shamanic heritage, our freedom to explore our minds and do what we please with our own bodies. It is an attempt to control our minds,our spirituality, and control dissent. There's a reason they call DMT the spirit molecule. It's a direct line, with no need of ritual, to a spiritual realm. Do not accept the drug warriors lies. Reject them as easily as you would the claim that the universe was created 6,000 years ago. The future is not on their side. Their ideas will probably be looked back on much like we look back on the Spanish Inquisition.


I thought it had already been established that Don Juan Matus, was in fact a fictional character created by Carlos Castaneda. I know a few people who got seriously fucked up(forever) attempting to emulate Castaneda's datura experiences.
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Re: Does This Count as Shamanism

Postby Rin » Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:08 am

Atehequa wrote:
420 wrote:Some occultists are very much against drugs. In my opinion, drugs and magick are intimately interrelated. Castaneda's descriptions of drug use in shamanism should be read by anyone with questions like yours. The current government inspired drug war hysteria serves to seperate society from its roots, it's shamanic heritage, our freedom to explore our minds and do what we please with our own bodies. It is an attempt to control our minds,our spirituality, and control dissent. There's a reason they call DMT the spirit molecule. It's a direct line, with no need of ritual, to a spiritual realm. Do not accept the drug warriors lies. Reject them as easily as you would the claim that the universe was created 6,000 years ago. The future is not on their side. Their ideas will probably be looked back on much like we look back on the Spanish Inquisition.


I thought it had already been established that Don Juan Matus, was in fact a fictional character created by Carlos Castaneda. I know a few people who got seriously fucked up(forever) attempting to emulate Castaneda's datura experiences.


You're correct, Castenada was exposed as a fraud a long time ago - although strangely, I've seen several spiritually attained individuals state that his books still contain good advice and still recommend them, even though they know the books are fictional in nature. It's possible Castenada was inspired by some higher intelligence subconsciously, or that he just did a good job at imitating genuine spiritual texts and accounts of time with spiritual masters.
"The path of the Sage is called
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"

- DDJ, Verse 27

"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett
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Re: Does This Count as Shamanism

Postby Ramscha » Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:45 am

Rin wrote:
Atehequa wrote:
420 wrote:Some occultists are very much against drugs. In my opinion, drugs and magick are intimately interrelated. Castaneda's descriptions of drug use in shamanism should be read by anyone with questions like yours. The current government inspired drug war hysteria serves to seperate society from its roots, it's shamanic heritage, our freedom to explore our minds and do what we please with our own bodies. It is an attempt to control our minds,our spirituality, and control dissent. There's a reason they call DMT the spirit molecule. It's a direct line, with no need of ritual, to a spiritual realm. Do not accept the drug warriors lies. Reject them as easily as you would the claim that the universe was created 6,000 years ago. The future is not on their side. Their ideas will probably be looked back on much like we look back on the Spanish Inquisition.


I thought it had already been established that Don Juan Matus, was in fact a fictional character created by Carlos Castaneda. I know a few people who got seriously fucked up(forever) attempting to emulate Castaneda's datura experiences.


You're correct, Castenada was exposed as a fraud a long time ago - although strangely, I've seen several spiritually attained individuals state that his books still contain good advice and still recommend them, even though they know the books are fictional in nature. It's possible Castenada was inspired by some higher intelligence subconsciously, or that he just did a good job at imitating genuine spiritual texts and accounts of time with spiritual masters.


I guess it is similar with H.P. Lovecraft whose myths are also said to have a certain value as a system even though his stuff is clearly fictional. It is possible to work with it successfully, I dare to say that much from my own experience.

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Re: Does This Count as Shamanism

Postby manonthepath » Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:08 am

Well Silverfox, you already know the answer. Opinions are what they are: personal. Mine is that you should probably stop the drugs because you said you use them over long periods and I get the impression that these are used recreationally. Too much of anything is bad, and it is certain that regular tripping will come with a price. If you want to pay that price, do what you want, but if you have confidence in any kind of positive future, you need to reflect on your actions and habits while you still have the ability. For once I agree with Ramscha.
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Re: Does This Count as Shamanism

Postby Atehequa » Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:28 am

Shamanism is animism in practice.

Spiritual leaders of many different primitive cultures do make use of different natural substances, but this comes with many generations of knowledge and practice, not just because they were intrigued by new age books written by non-indigenous authors.
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