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Is Odin's sigil the same as Lucifer's?

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Is Odin's sigil the same as Lucifer's?

Postby VervainSage » Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:23 am

This is a question that's been biting me ever since I converted to Luciferism/Orthodox Paganism. Could you help me out please?
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Re: Is Odin's sigil the same as Lucifer's?

Postby Shinichi » Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:38 am

No. They aren't even close to being the same.



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Re: Is Odin's sigil the same as Lucifer's?

Postby Sypheara » Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:21 am

Got to second the above.

The Valknut is strongly associated with Odin afaik, although I am no norse specialist by any means. They are not my gods so correct me if im wrong.

Image

The primary sigil of Lucifer looks nothing like this (see below).

Image
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Re: Is Odin's sigil the same as Lucifer's?

Postby Desecrated » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:29 am

There are no archaeological or historical evidence for Odin ever having a sigil or symbol. The only groups I know of that uses odal rune or valknut are neonazis and new age pagans.
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Re: Is Odin's sigil the same as Lucifer's?

Postby Sypheara » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:09 pm

Desecrated wrote:There are no archaeological or historical evidence for Odin ever having a sigil or symbol. The only groups I know of that uses odal rune or valknut are neonazis and new age pagans.


Also this. It is definetly a modern attribution but that doesn't really strip it of the fact it is now connected with Odin/Woden. I would say there are alot of Odinists as well as Heathens (when it comes to Woden) who make use of the valknut these days, and I know in some circles it is tattooed as a blood oath.

Both of these highly related but distinct paths are highly reconstructionist as they only have the eddas to go off of really. It unfair to all who associate the valknut with odin/woden as being either nazis or people who have fuck all clue what they are doing. I know a rather knowledgeable heathen witch that works with them, makes use of the valknut, and is in no way going out on weekends distributing flyers to gas jews.

She is about as liberal as you can get.
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Re: Is Odin's sigil the same as Lucifer's?

Postby Shinichi » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:28 pm

The Valknut is definitely Odin's, but it's not a sigil in the sense that Lucifer and other Abrahamic spirits have sigils. The European and American spirits don't often throw around seals like that so lightly. Rather than being a sigil in that sense, it is a brand. Like, cattle branding. The warriors of Odin are branded with it, so that the valkyries know who to send to Valhalla and who to send to Hel. Among other pleasant things. But yeah, it means Odin owns your ass, and those who stamp it on themselves lightly usually end up in a world of hurt.



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Re: Is Odin's sigil the same as Lucifer's?

Postby RoseRed » Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:30 pm

Among other pleasant things.


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Re: Is Odin's sigil the same as Lucifer's?

Postby Desecrated » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:22 pm

The valknut was only used as a decorative ornament on gotland. The problem is that the Norwegians called the Triquetra for valknute so the importance of the gotlandic valknut is sometimes confused with the norweigan burial rituals.
What makes it even more annoying, is that on the oseberg ship found in norway, there is a gotlandic valknut on it.... But that is the one exception to the rule.

There are no written sources mentioning the valknut and no known meaning to it. It is commonly recognise as nothing else then ornamental purpose and are never found on anything else then runestones.
The gotlandics was particularly good at writing and left a lot of scripts behind them. What makes it even more unique is that they were a sovereign nation up until 1645. So their ancient texts are as polluted by Christianity as the Icelandic eddas are.
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Re: Is Odin's sigil the same as Lucifer's?

Postby Desecrated » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:56 pm

Sidenote on the worship of odin.

When I went to school we were taught that the Vikings used to sacrifice to Odin and that the temple in Uppsala was in his name. The image of berserkers was certainly appreciated among us young school boys
But there are no archaeological evidence for this at uppsala or at any other place. A new theory that is started to be excepted in Scandinavian scholarship is that Odin never had an organised cult in Scandinavia.
He probably had a stronger role in Germanic cultures, where he was more of a nature god.
He certainly had an important role in the Eddas and on the völung stone in gotland he is clearly depicted. So people talked about him, knew about him and his image was certainly known.

But just like Hades in Greek mythology, very few people actually worshipped him.
The prevalent theory right now is that he was much more of a personal god. Scribes, mad people and most likely those involved in magic might have had a more personal worship of Odin, but as far as the general public went. He was never as popular as Thor or Freya.
There are some small statues of Odin found in archaeological grave sites, and the vendel helmets also used in funeral rituals have very clear images of Odin.
But his picture is never depicted on daily objects like combs and tapestry.
He might have become more and more of a death god in Scandinavia but was resurrected as head-god in the Icelandic eddas.

The problem we often do today is that we think our current image of old gods are the accurate one.
The Odin we think of today is more of a composition image of several different odins and several different gods from several different cultures. The old English Woden is not the same as the Scandinavian Oden, nor the icelandic Odin. They all share a common ancestor, but they played different roles in their respective society.
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Re: Is Odin's sigil the same as Lucifer's?

Postby Desecrated » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:11 pm

Sypheara wrote:
I know a rather knowledgeable heathen witch that works with them, makes use of the valknut, and is in no way going out on weekends distributing flyers to gas jews.

She is about as liberal as you can get.


I'm not saying that anybody who uses it is a moron. I'm sure some were serious new age pagans like the symbol. But that is what they are. "New Age". Real pagans, did not use it. Historians don't use it, archaeologists don't use it, religious scholars don't put much attention to it.

There is one engish scholar that formulated a theory on the valknut as mental binds. But her theory never stuck and there is no evidence for it, and no other scholar have assigned their name to the theory as far as I know. (it is quoted on wikipedia so it's not like it's obscure, and I'm sure many new age pagans like it.)
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