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Christianity

Postby Sileial » Sat May 28, 2016 9:14 am

Hello my name is Sileial .

Can you share with me ur view,and knowledge about Christian God and that religion is it maybe possible to invoke,evoke their God ? Did you ever ask any spirit about Christianity and Christian God ? What did he said ? Im very interested in that religion somethink is pulling me in it but im not sure what to do im very honest,humble person but in same moment im evil person i dont know what to think anymore about others and myself. I would be very thankful if you could help me thanks for your time reading this.
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Re: Christianity

Postby Desecrated » Sat May 28, 2016 4:15 pm

Sileial wrote:Hello my name is Sileial .

Can you share with me ur view,and knowledge about Christian God and that religion is it maybe possible to invoke,evoke their God ? Did you ever ask any spirit about Christianity and Christian God ? What did he said ?



I think you should probably read up about spirit work before going in the deep end of it.

The opinions about this goes apart. Most christian and jewish occultist would not try to invoke god simply because he is too powerful. A lot of these system spend entire lifetimes just to reach a level where they can glimpse god.

Some atheist, and non-christian occultist probably think it's no different that invoking any other deity. You just need the necessary basic training to do so. 1-2 years is usually recommended.

And then some chaos magicians might argue that you would need more training then that because the christian god is such a strong thought with so many people, he would probably be a very strong thougthform.

When it comes to evoking the time period goes down, but it still requires a lot of work.

Im very interested in that religion somethink is pulling me in it but im not sure what to do im very honest,humble person but in same moment im evil person i dont know what to think anymore about others and myself. I would be very thankful if you could help me thanks for your time reading this.


We are all sinners, if you just accept jesus into your heart he can wash away all sins.
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Re: Christianity

Postby Sileial » Sat May 28, 2016 5:26 pm

Desecrated wrote:
Sileial wrote:Hello my name is Sileial .

Can you share with me ur view,and knowledge about Christian God and that religion is it maybe possible to invoke,evoke their God ? Did you ever ask any spirit about Christianity and Christian God ? What did he said ?



I think you should probably read up about spirit work before going in the deep end of it.

The opinions about this goes apart. Most christian and jewish occultist would not try to invoke god simply because he is too powerful. A lot of these system spend entire lifetimes just to reach a level where they can glimpse god.

Some atheist, and non-christian occultist probably think it's no different that invoking any other deity. You just need the necessary basic training to do so. 1-2 years is usually recommended.

And then some chaos magicians might argue that you would need more training then that because the christian god is such a strong thought with so many people, he would probably be a very strong thougthform.

When it comes to evoking the time period goes down, but it still requires a lot of work.

Im very interested in that religion somethink is pulling me in it but im not sure what to do im very honest,humble person but in same moment im evil person i dont know what to think anymore about others and myself. I would be very thankful if you could help me thanks for your time reading this.


We are all sinners, if you just accept jesus into your heart he can wash away all sins.


Are you a Christian ? If i could ask you that are you ? Or was that just sarcasm im not good with sarcasms. I just got some kind of interested in Christian God dont know why .. So where should i start first my journey with elemental spirits ? Olympic spirits ? Goetic spirits ? Enochian is to advanced for me so i dont wanna go into it i heard plenty of stuff happened to John Dee after messing with it. What do you prefer and how and with what did u start ? What from ur experience and knowledge is kind spirit to start with ? I wanna both me and ..... spirit have benefits from each other so who do you prefer ? Im confused
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Re: Christianity

Postby Desecrated » Sat May 28, 2016 6:30 pm

Sileial wrote:
Are you a Christian ? If i could ask you that are you ? Or was that just sarcasm im not good with sarcasms. I just got some kind of interested in Christian God dont know why .. So where should i start first my journey with elemental spirits ? Olympic spirits ? Goetic spirits ? Enochian is to advanced for me so i dont wanna go into it i heard plenty of stuff happened to John Dee after messing with it. What do you prefer and how and with what did u start ? What from ur experience and knowledge is kind spirit to start with ? I wanna both me and ..... spirit have benefits from each other so who do you prefer ? Im confused


No, I'm not a christian, but I was an ordained minister at one point so I tend to talk like a priest when it comes to religion.
If I'm talking about christianity, I'm usually talking about it from a christian point of view. No sarcasm.

Spirit-work is consider to be one of the more mid-level techniques in magic. So you need to work your way up there. The beginners book list and fundamental development on this forum are good starting points.

When it comes to what sort of spirits you should contact first, is usually up to you. If your drawn to a specific spirit or a specific paradigm. That's probably what you should do. If you feel drawn to angels, talk to them. If you feel drawn to nature spirits, talk to them.
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Re: Christianity

Postby Sileial » Sat May 28, 2016 6:45 pm

Desecrated wrote:
Sileial wrote:
Are you a Christian ? If i could ask you that are you ? Or was that just sarcasm im not good with sarcasms. I just got some kind of interested in Christian God dont know why .. So where should i start first my journey with elemental spirits ? Olympic spirits ? Goetic spirits ? Enochian is to advanced for me so i dont wanna go into it i heard plenty of stuff happened to John Dee after messing with it. What do you prefer and how and with what did u start ? What from ur experience and knowledge is kind spirit to start with ? I wanna both me and ..... spirit have benefits from each other so who do you prefer ? Im confused


No, I'm not a christian, but I was an ordained minister at one point so I tend to talk like a priest when it comes to religion.
If I'm talking about christianity, I'm usually talking about it from a christian point of view. No sarcasm.

Spirit-work is consider to be one of the more mid-level techniques in magic. So you need to work your way up there. The beginners book list and fundamental development on this forum are good starting points.

When it comes to what sort of spirits you should contact first, is usually up to you. If your drawn to a specific spirit or a specific paradigm. That's probably what you should do. If you feel drawn to angels, talk to them. If you feel drawn to nature spirits, talk to them.



Ok Thanks for everythink u helped me very much :)
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Re: Christianity

Postby Hadit » Sat May 28, 2016 10:27 pm

I avoid Christianity and other Osirian/Horian religion. To me they go the opposite route of everything occultism and spirituality go against. It's essentially a dictatorial state, both stiving for one in this life and hoping for one in the next. It cannot provide any truly useful answers to seekers who are unhappy with themselves, who want to change and learn to Become. But in the end it is of course your choice.

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Re: Christianity

Postby TruthSeeker_ » Sun May 29, 2016 2:11 am

Sileial wrote:Hello my name is Sileial .

Can you share with me ur view,and knowledge about Christian God and that religion is it maybe possible to invoke,evoke their God ? Did you ever ask any spirit about Christianity and Christian God ? What did he said ? Im very interested in that religion somethink is pulling me in it but im not sure what to do im very honest,humble person but in same moment im evil person i dont know what to think anymore about others and myself. I would be very thankful if you could help me thanks for your time reading this.

I highly recommend the work of Allan Kardec.

The Spririt's Book by Allan Kardec

Free pdf: http://www.allankardec.com/Allan_Kardec ... esp_us.pdf

The Gospels According To Spiritism by Allan Kardec

Free pdf: http://www.spiritism.jp/pdf/gospel.pdf

Kardec is the codifier of Spiritism. He compiled answers given by spirits through mediums, many of which are about God and Christianity.
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Re: Christianity

Postby Sileial » Sun May 29, 2016 8:12 am

Thanks for everythink guys thank you thank you :)
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Re: Christianity

Postby inMalkuth » Tue May 02, 2017 7:27 pm

First you have to ask yourself what the identity of God is to you. Then you have to ask what you think this God wants of you? Someone said that this religion is too demanding and I agree; there are very high standards here. For instance Christ says in one of the stories that should a man want to steal something from you, that you should give it to him to avoid any sort of hell in Gehenna. He wants your fleece to be unstained of any blood from conflict or confrontation- even to the point of not defending yourself. All of this in the hope that there is some after-life reward where that type of thing won't happen. Do you believe this to be true?

I see Christianity as an extreme view that is not applicable to life here, because it will never be realized here. It is also extreme to imagine that should you follow these laws that you will be received into a better next life. I don't think that doing anything for a reward in some other place is a legitimate reason for religion. We also should not be doing anything "because God said so" or because there is a God watching. We should be the person we believe we should be for our own sake.

If a person wants to be good, then they are capable to be that. One thing I have seen too much of is the self deception people employ in the act of considering themselves good. I don't know if reaching the greatest good is even possible- another reason Christianity is difficult. The point is to do your best and to keep working at it. This can be applied to any system.
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Re: Christianity

Postby Deathfang » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:53 am

First you have to ask yourself what the identity of God is to you. Then you have to ask what you think this God wants of you? Someone said that this religion is too demanding and I agree; there are very high standards here. For instance Christ says in one of the stories that should a man want to steal something from you, that you should give it to him to avoid any sort of hell in Gehenna. He wants your fleece to be unstained of any blood from conflict or confrontation- even to the point of not defending yourself. All of this in the hope that there is some after-life reward where that type of thing won't happen. Do you believe this to be true?

I see Christianity as an extreme view that is not applicable to life here, because it will never be realized here. It is also extreme to imagine that should you follow these laws that you will be received into a better next life. I don't think that doing anything for a reward in some other place is a legitimate reason for religion. We also should not be doing anything "because God said so" or because there is a God watching. We should be the person we believe we should be for our own sake.

If a person wants to be good, then they are capable to be that. One thing I have seen too much of is the self deception people employ in the act of considering themselves good. I don't know if reaching the greatest good is even possible- another reason Christianity is difficult. The point is to do your best and to keep working at it. This can be applied to any system.


Jesus also said "the kingdom of heaven is here and now" so supposedly you get rewarded in this life not just the afterlife.

As far as defending yourself, there's two places I can think of where you'd get that. The "turn the other cheek" saying, which is not talking about assault, but about getting slapped. You slap someone to insult them/shame them, not to actually do damage to them. Telling them to slap you again takes away that power to insult you. The other one is where they are coming for Jesus at the end and one of his disciples takes out a sword ready to defend his master, Jesus tells him to stand down "He who lives by the sword dies by the sword" so he's not talking about the afterlife hes talking about a better life here and now, also Jesus wanted to be captured and crucified to fulfill the prophecy and carry out Gods will. So I think you're allowed to defend yourself. Jesus said he didn't come to bring peace to the world, but came with a sword.
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Re: Christianity

Postby Cerber » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:00 am

Deathfang wrote:
Jesus said he didn't come to bring peace to the world, but came with a sword.

I think he was just being straightforward, he is a butcher, he came to conquer, not to save anybody.
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Re: Christianity

Postby chowderpope » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:02 am

Deathfang wrote:Jesus also said "the kingdom of heaven is here and now" so supposedly you get rewarded in this life not just the afterlife.


I'm sure that was not meant as a promise for material reward in this life, in any way. He meant that one can attain to the kingdom of Heaven within themselves, during this life. The kingdom of Heaven, of course, is a metaphor.

"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt"
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Re: Christianity

Postby Deathfang » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:08 am

Deathfang wrote:
Jesus also said "the kingdom of heaven is here and now" so supposedly you get rewarded in this life not just the afterlife.


I'm sure that was not meant as a promise for material reward in this life, in any way. He meant that one can attain to the kingdom of Heaven within themselves, during this life. The kingdom of Heaven, of course, is a metaphor.

"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt"


Yes I'm sure he was talking about spiritual rewards not material rewards, but my point is you get it in this life not the next. And I don't think he meant it metaphorically.
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Re: Christianity

Postby chowderpope » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:16 am

You don't think Heaven is a metaphor? They call it a place with golden roads, where there is no pain, blah blah ... A lot of exoteric Christians think it's some kind of real, physical place, like a parallel world where everything is nice. I think Heaven is a metaphor for a different kind of peaceful place. You know what I mean?
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Re: Christianity

Postby Deathfang » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:31 am

You don't think Heaven is a metaphor? They call it a place with golden roads, where there is no pain, blah blah ... A lot of exoteric Christians think it's some kind of real, physical place, like a parallel world where everything is nice. I think Heaven is a metaphor for a different kind of peaceful place. You know what I mean?


Golden roads and stuff is just nice poetry. I think the "places" people talk about could be heaven-like worlds we go to on the astral and mental planes in between incarnations or after our soul has transcended the physical plane.

The kingdom of heaven here and now that Jesus talks about i think is a heaven we can step into on this earth. We can step into it because it is totally in the moment, you don't always have the option to step into heaven i think, you can't step into heaven if your in someones torture dungeon i would think (maybe you can, i don't know).

What could be a definition of heaven? First of all its a place where you're infinitely happy and peaceful, so that's just cultivating the right state of mind, probably possible for us to do on earth. Also a place of unimaginable beauty, the beauty of earth is immense, all the forests and deserts and sky scrapes and insects and wildlife, its amazing to the average person, but i think as you develop your inner peace and joy and are in the moment that beauty and majesty is multiplied exceedingly. And also heaven cant be boring, it would have to be a place of unlimited knowledge to learn and things to discover and explore, entities to converse and interact with, adventures to be had and love to be found, all that stuff can be found on earth.

So it's only a metaphor until you realize the actuality of it, and have actually evolved yourself enough to experience it.
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Re: Christianity

Postby chowderpope » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:46 am

Right so if I'm reading you right, you would agree that Heaven is used as a metaphor to describe something other than a place you go when you die.
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Re: Christianity

Postby Deathfang » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:01 am

Okay you right it is a metaphor for all intents and purposes as applied with the orthodox view of heaven.

I called it literal because I was thinking of heaven as basically a state of being exactly where you want to be, kind of like, the destination is the journey.
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Re: Christianity

Postby violetstar » Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:05 pm

Woe if I reveal,Woe if I do not reveal...
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Re: Christianity

Postby Cerber » Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:47 pm

chowderpope wrote:Right so if I'm reading you right, you would agree that Heaven is used as a metaphor to describe something other than a place you go when you die.

But it is a place where you can, might go, although not required to. There is many "heavens". That's what I believe, because that's what I see. I just don't know if Muslims and Christians end up in the same place. But "pagans" usually don't land on the gardens of Christ.
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Re: Christianity

Postby Deathfang » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:28 pm

As far as my own view of Christianity, I think every time you pray you are invoking the christian God, he is far too powerful to invoke/evoke in the traditional sense though.

I think the christian God is the same as the muslim God, jewish God, hindu God. It is just the one God, whenever you talk about the one God you're talking about the same God usually.

I think there's a lot of power and truth in adopting the Christian dogma i.e. God and the Devil, angels and demons heaven and hell and all of that.

What makes a christian a christian is the belief that you need Jesus's blood to be saved. I don't like this belief, first of all it implies we only have one life, that's a detrimental belief because you wont have any motivation to reach as high as you can in this life, just accept accept Jesus in your heart, try to be good and not sin a bunch and you'll go to heaven when you die like every one else who goes there. Basic and simple. It also doesn't really make sense because its just way too easy, salvation handed too you on a silver platter. And what about all the really good people who help people there whole lives but just happen to not accept Jesus as their savior? They go to hell? Does not compute.

I think Jesus was a powerful amazing and wise soul, he was a teacher and a messiah. I think he is the "Son of God" in that when all the souls were first created, God chose one soul to take under his wing and show him the ropes (makes sense, I would do that if I was God).

I think he died for our sins in this way: A saint has the ability to take on the bad karma of someone else, to suffer in place of someone else. Jesus did this by being crucified, he did it mostly to take on the karma of his disciples, that's one reason after his death his disciples had magical power to perform miracles and stuff. He also took on a tiny bit of karma for everyone else too.

That being said, there are a lot of things to learn and wise spiritual lessons from christianity, just like every other major religion.

If you feel drawn toward this religion then there's probably a lot you can gain from it at this time. Try going to a few christian or catholic masses on sunday, see if it resonates in you.
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Re: Christianity

Postby Deathfang » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:11 pm

Also to note:

I said to be a christian means you believe you need the blood of Jesus to be saved. That's the common belief, what most people will tell you about being a christian. I think this also might be a misinterpretation of itself.

People say this because of when Jesus says “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" John 14:6

What he also might have been saying is this: There's three modes of existence, material, spirit, and the void (unmanifested). In the catholic trinity its represented as father, son, holy spirit. The father is the void, the son is material, and the holy spirit is spirit. When people would try to experience the void they might just try to go right to it, to pass everything else and jump in the void. Jesus was the son of god, he represented material, when he says no one comes to the father(void) except through me(material) he was saying you have to enter the void through first mastering the material realm. For example when he says "If someone asks you for something, give it. If someone steals from you, don't ask for it back" hes talking about using material (material things people would steal) as a way to reach the void.
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Re: Christianity

Postby Cerber » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:40 pm

Deathfang wrote:..
I think Jesus was a powerful amazing and wise soul, he was a teacher and a messiah. I think he is the "Son of God" in that when all the souls were first created, God chose one soul to take under his wing and show him the ropes (makes sense, I would do that if I was God).
..

That made me vomit, a bit, in to my mouth [shh]
I apologise for it, I think you are a good person, with a good heart even if in the wrong place, so out of respect I'll just remove my self from this tread and any other future treads related to Christianity or Jesus Christ. There, nothing else is necessary, unless somebody feels that reporting me for a warning or even a ban is the right thing to do. Best of luck [thumbup]
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Re: Christianity

Postby Deathfang » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:20 pm

Lol man I have a thick skin and liquid beliefs, please elaborate why you think that's a gross view. That's why we're here to exchange ideas. Don't do me the injustice of sparing my feelings.
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Re: Christianity

Postby Deathfang » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:03 am

cerber wrote:
I think he was just being straightforward, he is a butcher, he came to conquer, not to save anybody.


who exactly did he butcher and what was he trying to conquer?
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Re: Christianity

Postby Cerber » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:29 am

Deathfang wrote:Lol man I have a thick skin and liquid beliefs, please elaborate why you think that's a gross view. That's why we're here to exchange ideas. Don't do me the injustice of sparing my feelings.

Only if you insist. Because what I see when I look at His Majesty, underneath it all, all the superficial light, love and all other cheap glitter is a nasty self righteous power greedy asshole. I don't understand how can anybody ignore or even justify all the mindless destruction caused by him, his brotherhood and the followers of their cults? I don't mean the insane number of people sacrificed for His Vanity, I'm not too sensitive when it comes to death, but the destruction of everything that was build before them, the knowledge that was acquired before them smashed and burned. The world before that menace was not perfect, but that world had way more goodness than what was left after He got his minions working. His scheming, lies, slaughter and playing all sides turning sane ppl mad and turning them against each other, sons against fathers, and brothers against brothers, left us poor and deprived of any unspoiled truth (I mean the western world). Most if not all teachings and knowledge ppl work with these days, even the occult, is heavily influenced and twisted by him and his minions. He is like like big black diseased blob, a giant tumour on the body of this world. Or are you going to tell me God has no influence on the actions of his cult after he departs his physical presence? He was just sitting there on his throne waving his hand and giving out blessings? Everything else was just some kind of misunderstanding? I don't believe that.
The old Gods just stood by and watched because they thought they were wiser, better and getting their hands dirty is beneath their class and now where are they?
Oh and I got nothing from him just hostility and threats spit out to my face during this life of mine even before I developed that view I've tried to express above. I used to think he is just a concept, or an abstract spirit, or maybe some kind of agregore, but I came to realise there is a Person up there. Very well fed, intelligent, and powerful person sitting high up there on the throne with all the power and more that would need to start and stop any and all the destruction that been happening, and still happening.
That's what I think, believe, feel and present.
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