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Emergent or individual religions, small groups or individualised, modern practices.

Re: Christianity

Postby Cerber » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:35 am

Deathfang wrote:who exactly did he butcher and what was he trying to conquer?

He wasn't trying, he already did. About 50% of this realm is on their knees, one way or another, to greater or lesser extent. Now he is eyeing the second half.
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Re: Christianity

Postby Deathfang » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:17 am

I think one reason we've seen so much religious violence since Christ is because for the last 2000 years we've been in the age of Pisces.

http://www.astrosoftware.com/AquariusPiscesAge.htm

The sign of Pisces is also associated with the sacred sites and sanctuaries that attract crowds of Christians who come to pray. Finally, a sign of divinity, of faith and also of heresy, the sign of Pisces is associated with religious conflicts and crusades, which notably occurred in the Middle Ages. The "Enemies" were called "infidels", in other words, "those who were not of our faith". Christians then fought against enemies under the pretense that they did not share their religious convictions. These crusades were headed by pious, faithful, well-intentioned knights, all keyed up by religious fervour.


And of course humans can be evil and power hungry, they are going to use any tool they can get their hands on to achieve their wicked goals. They've used christianity as such a tool. You can use a hammer to kill someone, or you can use it to build a home for your family.

And of course he can't influence his followers when hes not there, what do you expect him to do use mind control to make people good? No we have free will.

And you say Gods not good because he allows bad things to happen. I think he allows bad things to happen because without pain and suffering there is no evolution, no progress, without pain we'd be all sitting around happy sure, but doing nothing important, sitting around twiddling our thumbs.

I think it also might be a debate, a bet, between God and the Devil. God points to us and says we're good, and the Devil says we're bad. This world is the test to see who is right, if God just made everything gravy then we would all be good and the Devil would say that's cheating and we can't know who's right. Gods probably not a perfect picture of love like alot say he is, he cares more about being right then about us being happy. This is outlined in the book of Job, God curses Job and takes away everything and makes him diseased just to prove a point, pretty cold. He's trying to prove to the Devil that we are awesome, and so at the same time we prove to the Devil that we are awesome, and therefore we become awesome.

I could accept the idea that God is imperfect, corruptible and egotistical, but black and evil? i doubt it.
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Re: Christianity

Postby Deathfang » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:24 am

He wasn't trying, he already did. About 50% of this realm is on their knees, one way or another, to greater or lesser extent. Now he is eyeing the second half.


Yeah people idol worship Jesus that is bad, he is a teacher not a god. But he never told anyone to worship him. I think its partly misinterpretation and more so its people that want to use religion to control the masses, have an agenda to get people to worship and need Jesus, so they need their religion.
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Re: Christianity

Postby Cerber » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:26 am

That's not what I said. I think your view is naive, you underestimate what is possible in this world and the others.
But I feel should stop pushing it. We've been under the most vicious attack today, my friend brushed up with death closer than ever, the beast tried to attack me to but I've seen it coming and he had to retreat back in to the shadows. My trash talking about that "corporation" over the past few days in various groups might be related. Maybe I'm paranoid, but in my line of "work" paranoia is one of the requirements.
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Re: Christianity

Postby Deathfang » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:41 am

My bad if i misread your post. We can drop it. Best of luck to you.
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Re: Christianity

Postby Cerber » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:37 am

Deathfang wrote:My bad if i misread your post. We can drop it. Best of luck to you.

It's ok, I tend to mean more than I lay in words, and you read them the best you can.
We'll have to drop it. I got some beats to kill.
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Re: Christianity

Postby neofight » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:54 pm

Wow now this is a GREAT thread. Its got it all, really. But then, when it comes to the most powerful and influential religion in known history, why wouldn't it?

I like your view on God making bets with the Devil. Did you get that from Anne Rice? She wrote a book about it.

The thing about Jesus dying for us is simple to translate from the perspective of an initiate. The sin that he died for isn't that we stole, or swore, or killed someone; its the sin of thinking. Now, it will be difficult to imagine in our age that thinking is a sin, but when you read the story, Adam and Eve just were, they didn't have to analyze or create- it was a perfect paradise. They bit the apple, and what does the apple represent? Good and evil. This is where we start to declare one thing better or worse than another, and for anyone that has tried to do this knows, it can really be quite a curse. Wouldn't it be better to just accept? Or to simply hate it all? Trying to organize things into a hierarchy of good vs bad is hellish, and a curse- but it is one that we all suffer from. Jesus represents the redemption of putting in the effort of thinking and analyzing; he died so that we might find redemption in the process of analysis. This is their way of saying hey, its ok to think and examine- we have to do this! The jews thought it caused a suffering and sure, we are no longer accepting innocent fools that don't see death waiting (for A & E there was no death, of course- or maybe they just weren't aware that there was until they ate).

So basically we are now free to think, we do this because its too late- we became self aware. Lucifer is a light bringer because he gives us something to contemplate in our "fallen" state. His methods might seem cruel- but as you say, this is about becoming awesome. Cant have good without bad, right?

Jesus is a morning star because he is the answer to the question "What is the good life?" The good life in his definition is one without conflict. What kind of conflict would the Christian suffer when they turn the other cheek? They might get dominated easily (which is why I think there needs to be something added) but if people just leave them alone because they are easy going, then life can be easy and good. Also, Christians really don't want to hurt anyone- they don't want God to have a reason to punish them (because the Jewish God is angry at our rebellion) so they learn to be absolutely gentle, kind and forgiving. This is a good way to be, if you don't want to pay for crimes. In our environment and society this is a really hard standard to live up to, yet people succeed.

The fact is that as we go about our world we find options and make choices and aren't totally certain what the right thing to do is, that's why they have reconciliation. You go to the priest (who represents the Father) and talk it out- say that you learned, and God lets you go on learning. The intimate relationship with God is really important here- because they believe God listens and understands, and forgives. Nothing worse than carrying the weight of unreconciled crime in your mind- self deception is as bad as an outright lie, and lying to yourself is absolutely going to lead you down into more sin. Plus guilt is a heavy burden. When we recognize that we all make bad choices, and learn what we have done and how to avoid it in the future, we can get on with our lives and avoid doing it again.

One thing about Christianity that doesn't sit well with me is that they really avoid getting their hands dirty. That's ok- because they are no longer part of the problem; they aren't out partying and driving drunk and having unmarried sex or committing crimes, and that's ultimately what a God wants to see happen, and that is why it works for us, and for God.

Im sorry you don't feel that it answers some of the injustice that you have suffered. Magick is about examining your feelings and knowing the choices that were made for you, and the way you reacted to those choices- good and bad. It is about renewing your soul, and taking responsibility for yourself, your future, and your future choices. Its not supposed to be about revenge or evil, its supposed to be about reconciliation and positive, affirmative solutions. You cant change the past, but you can process it and adjust how you look at it, thereby adjusting how you handle the future. If you want to be a negative nancy because you feel that you have the right to, then go ahead... but is that how you want to live? In hate? That is the opposite of heaven IMO. life is now, this is all we have, and happiness isn't so hard to understand.

Peace buddy
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Re: Christianity

Postby cactusjack543 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:39 pm

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