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What do we need MORE of in the occult community?

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Re: What do we need MORE of in the occult community?

Postby Gate » Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:00 am

I feel like more coming from the heart rather than ego is super important. I can't say that it isn't true already, but it's always the right answer haha.
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Re: What do we need MORE of in the occult community?

Postby 777Sloan » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:44 am

Gate wrote:I feel like more coming from the heart rather than ego is super important. I can't say that it isn't true already, but it's always the right answer haha.


I appreciate your New Age/Lightworker perspective; we could use more of that around here.
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Re: What do we need MORE of in the occult community?

Postby Nahemah » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:50 am

I like the avatar, Gate, it's interesting. [thumbup]

I'm enjoying this thread, there's a lot to think about and take in, with many good points made so far.
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Re: What do we need MORE of in the occult community?

Postby Gate » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:08 pm

Thank you :) I also feel we could use more colours haha
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Re: What do we need MORE of in the occult community?

Postby violetstar » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:55 pm

Napoli wrote:
Desecrated wrote:but would the forum benefit from more information about critical thinking, Grammar, logic, and rhetoric?


Yes, definitely.

As an academic myself I strongly disagree.Attempting to apply rules of the Academy,critical thinking,grammar,rhetoric and listed citations etc.will serve to stop people posting per se.

This is after all an Occult Forum for free thinking people not an academic examination of peoples ideas and beliefs.If you applied such rules to all the great Occultist's past you will find little in the way of cited sources.So are those works negated by absence of academic criteria? I think not.
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Re: What do we need MORE of in the occult community?

Postby fraterai » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:42 pm

I think its less about affecting how you post and more about how you read posts and other material (but it should help with both). Critical thinking and grammar are outrageously important in the occult. Logic helps one to maintain healthy "skepticality", and rhetoric guards from fakes and worse. I can apply all of these things to works without any citations or sources
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Re: What do we need MORE of in the occult community?

Postby Desecrated » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:43 pm

Section A
As an academic myself I strongly disagree.Attempting to apply rules of the Academy,critical thinking,grammar,rhetoric and listed citations etc.will serve to stop people posting per se.


Section B
This is after all an Occult Forum for free thinking people not an academic examination of peoples ideas and beliefs.If you applied such rules to all the great Occultist's past you will find little in the way of cited sources.So are those works negated by absence of academic criteria? I think not.


Section A
I don't think information about these things means that we have to apply them to the forum. But if anybody finds any good information about these subjects, it seems like people here are interested in knowing more about it.

Section B
Grammar, logic, and rhetoric is part of the trivium education, and thus part of the occult. If you read works like Agrippa, Aristotle and even Paracelsus they viewed the occult as strictly/partly academic.

It doesn't negate "great" occultist works, but it might be interesting to see how they differ from earlier sources. There is a lot of occult literature and there is a line of thinking so if somebody comes along and completely breaks against everything being said before, it might be worth exploring how and why.
Or at least being aware that it's not cited or unverified claims.
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Re: What do we need MORE of in the occult community?

Postby violetstar » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:43 pm

'but would the forum benefit from more information about critical thinking, Grammar, logic, and rhetoric?' was what I was responding to.More information is freely available elsewhere on these things and while I obviously realise the importance of critical reasoning,rhetoric etc.I did not see a need for further study of their application on the Forum once it has been pointed out.

My own thoughts on your OP are in agreement with Sypheara 'We need less armchair magickians and more pragmatic, honest individuals with practical skill sets who want to teach and guide new people coming through.' Perhaps a new section on its own?
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Re: What do we need MORE of in the occult community?

Postby Desecrated » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:53 am

violetstar wrote:'but would the forum benefit from more information about critical thinking, Grammar, logic, and rhetoric?' was what I was responding to.More information is freely available elsewhere on these things and while I obviously realise the importance of critical reasoning,rhetoric etc.I did not see a need for further study of their application on the Forum once it has been pointed out.

My own thoughts on your OP are in agreement with Sypheara 'We need less armchair magickians and more pragmatic, honest individuals with practical skill sets who want to teach and guide new people coming through.' Perhaps a new section on its own?


A section called "practical magic" maybe?
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Re: What do we need MORE of in the occult community?

Postby Sypheara » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:56 am

Do we have a section for written rituals or a place where they could be posted?

Often ill write up a pdf of something ive worked on, and it would be good to post links in threads here. I dont include alot of references as honestly alot of it is adhoc and personal gnosis, whilst incorporating methods learned from all sorts of places. But what i write is sincere reflection of my work and acts as evidence i actually do these rituals and work i relate.

A section explicitly for submitted member rituals for discussion may be a good idea. Id hesistate to call it practical but more like after action reports or ritual write ups. Reason why is practical might make someone think of low magic/high magic distinctions which wouldnt be the case.

Reports submitted there should have some basic outlined structure.

Ie something like

Reason for carrying out rite / stated goal
method to carry it out
some reflection or description on experienced result

Keeping this section clean for member submitted work would be good. Id be quite happy to both post existing work in there, answer questions, and also submit feedback questions for others work.

Let me know what you guys thinknof this? Sorry i am on tablet at moment so formatting might be terrible. Id love to see more on what people are actually doing that they feel comfortable sharing over theory and i think itd benefit people browsing the forums.
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Re: What do we need MORE of in the occult community?

Postby The Cove » Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:16 pm

Oh yes. Armchair magicians... That would be me. But for reasons that differ from the norm. There is no MORE. Stop wasting time on perogatives that serve no result. People come, people go. Popular, unpopular. To get traffic is to make a stop light. Consider the absence of all responce. In the mind. Traffic....

Meh...
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Re: What do we need MORE of in the occult community?

Postby Sypheara » Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:03 pm

I have difficult understanding your post as im not sure if English is your first language, so i apologise if ive misunderstood anything.

There is always MORE. We should be striving to continually improve, both on an individual and community basis. I don't accept that people who arn't or who don't regularly practice should be writing teaching material for people new to the Occult.

These things have permanent lasting and powerful changes. Only someone who has both gone through that, remained sharp, and is being active can properly create high quality material and offer high quality advice in my opinion.

Consider it as the same as any other field and you will see what I mean. I know that term may offend or hurt some people, and that is not my intention. It is simply emotional frustration on my part from reading and writing material where I can tell the person on the other end has not EXPERIENCED what they are describing or actually carried out the ritual. An example would be the fiasco with the Trump mass group spell which was for example, quite embarrassing.

As such I have to stand by the use of that word for the sake of new people who are coming to learn.
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Re: What do we need MORE of in the occult community?

Postby violetstar » Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:24 pm

Sypheara wrote:I have difficult understanding your post as im not sure if English is your first language, so i apologise if ive misunderstood anything.

There is always MORE. We should be striving to continually improve, both on an individual and community basis. I don't accept that people who arn't or who don't regularly practice should be writing teaching material for people new to the Occult.

These things have permanent lasting and powerful changes. Only someone who has both gone through that, remained sharp, and is being active can properly create high quality material and offer high quality advice in my opinion.

Consider it as the same as any other field and you will see what I mean. I know that term may offend or hurt some people, and that is not my intention. It is simply emotional frustration on my part from reading and writing material where I can tell the person on the other end has not EXPERIENCED what they are describing or actually carried out the ritual. An example would be the fiasco with the Trump mass group spell which was for example, quite embarrassing.

As such I have to stand by the use of that word for the sake of new people who are coming to learn.

I think there are some valid points there.I too am bored with reading renditions of supposed rituals written by people who have clearly never attempted or experienced what they suggest others do.

I feel a 'Post-hypothesis' type section would benefit most including the more adept but my only concern would be a possible outlet for some to use it as a diary of reflections rather than actual accounting of a real life experience.This has happened elsewhere and serves only to clog the board with subjective theories and ramblings meaningful only to the poster.
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Re: What do we need MORE of in the occult community?

Postby Nahemah » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:03 am

I've been following this thread and as I mentioned before, there are good ideas here.

We are about to do some work on the board, especially regarding phone compatibility and some other changes which will improve both the look and the functions. When we've sorted this,we will look at these ideas and those in earlier threads with a view to implementing at least some of them, so please do continue to post your thoughts folks. [thumbup]
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Re: What do we need MORE of in the occult community?

Postby Nahemah » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:58 pm

I stickied the topic for easy accesS.

I wanted to address some comments:

First:

Many famous occultists suggest a strong foundation in psychology. I would love to see a broad study of psychology catch on as one of the key steps in "foundations" training. Also, awesome thread Des.


Agreed and agreed.

We need to get the forum upgrade and changes done before adding or changing any more sections, folders or sub forums. So, it'll be a wee while yet but we are doing this as soon as Vashta has free time to co-ordinate everything.

Psychology is go. [thumbup]

I'll do some more, but there is no particular order to them.

Please keep adding your thoughts and ideas here in the interim.
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Re: What do we need MORE of in the occult community?

Postby Kaarsty » Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:59 pm

Just my two cents on this, and as a newbie I feel my comments might serve some good. I truly believe that whatever path or text or content you're reading/digesting, it MUST make sense to you before it works. I don't mean that the math adds up, or that it logically makes sense. I mean, in a harder to define way, that it fits in your view of reality and life. MOST of what I've read over the years is purposefully written in veiled symbolism, and usually in languages most modern seekers do not understand. Because of this, some of the most powerful bits of literature out there, are either inaccessible to the modern mystic, or seem downright silly. I personally believe we need more of the older stuff converted into modern language, explained within the framework of modern knowledge, and presented in a way that doesn't require the blowing off of an inch of dust. Right now we're watching a much larger, and I think much older, process play out that involves an unveiling, a revealing of things once hidden. If you want to take part in it - modernize!
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Re: What do we need MORE of in the occult community?

Postby Kath » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:21 pm

Realism and Experience

I do also like the suggestion that understanding psychology is important. Gnothi Seauton, know thee thyself.... need I say more?
I might also add that a firm grasp of logical thinking, and lateral thinking skills, are both immensely useful.
but realism and experience are the most sorely lacking.

There's a lot of good suggestions in this thread, but i wanted to quote this one because I thought it has more insight than you'd expect for being a self proclaimed "newbie" perspective.
Kaarsty wrote:Just my two cents on this, and as a newbie I feel my comments might serve some good. I truly believe that whatever path or text or content you're reading/digesting, it MUST make sense to you before it works. I don't mean that the math adds up, or that it logically makes sense. I mean, in a harder to define way, that it fits in your view of reality and life. MOST of what I've read over the years is purposefully written in veiled symbolism, and usually in languages most modern seekers do not understand. Because of this, some of the most powerful bits of literature out there, are either inaccessible to the modern mystic, or seem downright silly. I personally believe we need more of the older stuff converted into modern language, explained within the framework of modern knowledge, and presented in a way that doesn't require the blowing off of an inch of dust. Right now we're watching a much larger, and I think much older, process play out that involves an unveiling, a revealing of things once hidden. If you want to take part in it - modernize!
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