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Are most magicians Liberals?

Are most magicians Liberals?

Postby Garuda » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:43 am

I never really paid that much attention to it before but it does seem like most magicians are liberals. I suppose it makes sense I just never caught it for some reason.
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Re: Are most magicians Liberals?

Postby Hound » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:57 am

Energy is neutral.

Humans are political.

Humans are insane :).
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Re: Are most magicians Liberals?

Postby Shinichi » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:36 pm

Statistically speaking, the more educated someone is, the more likely they are to believe in and support liberal and progressive politics. You can ponder why that is for yourself, or do research on the numerous articles (both public and academic) exploring the subject. :)

Many experienced magicians tend to be highly educated, by their own private efforts if not through formal universities, and so they are likewise prone to the same statistics mentioned above. However, this does not necessarily mean that most magicians are liberal. Political ideology is something very personal and very separate from magical and spiritual practice, and I have met many conservative practitioners as well. Hell, there was even some pretty intense work done by powerful alt-right sorcerers to metaphysically help get Trump elected in the US.

Occultists are simply human at the end of the day, and humans have a very wide range of spiritual and political beliefs. [thumbup]



~:Shin:~
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Re: Are most magicians Liberals?

Postby Garuda » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:55 pm

Thanks for the replies. Sounds about right.
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Re: Are most magicians Liberals?

Postby Cybernetic_Jazz » Sat May 05, 2018 5:01 am

I'd speculate that, especially in the last several years, that there are a lot of people center to center-right who'd reckon themselves classic 'John Stewart Mill' liberals and in a way might amount to neoconservatives. There are also increasing numbers of progressives, or even avowed Marxists (in Brendan O'Niell's case), who'd make you scratch your head on how little they're sounding like brand-name leftists. I even wonder sometimes if Noam's left-wing creds are hanging on by threads as he almost sounds like a centrist these days.

Politics is tricky, and while its true that that the average intelligent person is much less likely to vote republican (in the US) statistically than the average bumkin we're comparing ourselves to a rather unthinking populace in general and I would think that the average liberal would be a paper-tiger to the sharper and more educated person who might choose conservatism or liberterianism for completely different reasons than team tribalism. I also think of how many truly beautiful anomalies we have in the world of political social media these days - Sam Harris, Bret and Eric Weinstein, Jonathan Haidt, Jordan Peterson, Dave Rubin, Ben Shapiro, Douglas Murray, and I might even lump in Sargon and Blaire for good measure; they're a bunch of people you'd never expect to be in the same room together and politically they're all over the map but agree on the priority of reasoning from first-principle and most of them demonstrate that most political debate is less about the desired improvement of the human lot and more about which path to get there works. I'd add too Styx, the one political commentator on Youtube that I'm aware of who spends a copious amount of time translating magical texts and selling hard copies on Amazon as well as practicing what he translates, and he actually got an honorable mention on the SPLC for debating Richard Spencer (whose lists - including Maajid Nawaz and Christina Hoff Sommers - are getting stranger by the month). Similarly I can think of at least a few other really well-known occultists, James Wasserman and Mark Stavish, who are quite openly center-right and right and it's right in their Facebook and other social media posts.

I think the answer with politics is try to really get to know the world you live in and how it works, literacy in that is your civic duty. It only helps to measure what a group is thinking if you want to measure it to see how thick the tribal identity and virtue signalling has gotten. If 1/3 is liberal and 2/3 conservative, or the reverse, it doesn't do you much good if most of that 1/3 and 2/3 isn't particularly well informed and where the rational peaks of both sides barely make contact with the bottoms of either or. Even being on the correct side of a two-team game isn't worth much if you're there largely by accident or for the wrong reasons.

If I had to try and peg myself, I don't find myself at one stable point on the map (I tested center-left with balanced libertarian/authoritarian on the political compass test) but I do find myself using reasoning motifs and apparatus that are increasingly considered center-right to right, and I really don't understand how or why that later drift is occurring.
You don't have to do a thing perfect, just relentlessly.
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Re: Are most magicians Liberals?

Postby akimbomoss » Wed May 09, 2018 7:41 am

Black and white thinking is horrible. Thinking in color is better. Good thread. I learned something.
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Re: Are most magicians Liberals?

Postby Topper » Wed May 09, 2018 5:33 pm

Shinichi wrote:Statistically speaking, the more educated someone is, the more likely they are to believe in and support liberal and progressive politics. You can ponder why that is for yourself, or do research on the numerous articles (both public and academic) exploring the subject. :)

Many experienced magicians tend to be highly educated, by their own private efforts if not through formal universities, and so they are likewise prone to the same statistics mentioned above. However, this does not necessarily mean that most magicians are liberal. Political ideology is something very personal and very separate from magical and spiritual practice, and I have met many conservative practitioners as well. Hell, there was even some pretty intense work done by powerful alt-right sorcerers to metaphysically help get Trump elected in the US.

Occultists are simply human at the end of the day, and humans have a very wide range of spiritual and political beliefs. [thumbup]



~:Shin:~

Great observations.I was surprised at the extent of academics who hold interest and even actively practice within the Occult world.I dont think its a new thing as many past magicians such as Crowley were well educated,some at the highest level.Never been a fan of mixing politics with spirituality but hey,its out there.
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