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How far does the rabbit hole go?

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Re: How far does the rabbit hole go?

Postby cactusjack543 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:56 am

darkness why is light so far away... come golly where are you all of you why so far away see that darkness we need to protect our food source....
I a only human 30 year prair to have a white picket fence with a nice spiritual healing lady golly... - ---.- 666:)....astoservemycity

Now just be quiet while my name plays you the opening theme to Mr. Dressup however one could give this all up so easely with women as bowned problem solver leading to lost of everything..
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Re: How far does the rabbit hole go?

Postby Kath » Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:31 pm

short answer: "all the way down"
long answer: actually the long answer would be about a hundred lengthy discussions focusing on the deconstruction of the paradigms which your human experience has impaled your psyche with. So yeah, just "all the way down". If that sounds ominous, then don't go down it. If it sounds exhillarating, then by all means...

There is the issue though, that as you climb the mountain, you'll find yourself increasingly alone. Or put more in the vernacular, as your paradigm shifts, your common ground with other humans will for the most part erode.
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Re: How far does the rabbit hole go?

Postby blindwake » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:51 pm

long answer: actually the long answer would be about a hundred lengthy discussions focusing on the deconstruction of the paradigms which your human experience has impaled your psyche with. So yeah, just "all the way down". If that sounds ominous, then don't go down it. If it sounds exhillarating, then by all means...


It's rare to find people that are willing to talk in depth on subjects, or listen. I find it repulsive how people would rather spend hours watching memes, rather than read a difficult book in the same time, just because memes are easier to digest in bite size proportions. Lots of easy things over one hard thing. Trouble is, it's impossible to fit a technical idea into a bite size cookie.

If you ever actually want to have those hundred lengthy discussions, then I'm all ears. Do you really feel like having those discussions though, if you feel you've already learned what you can from past ones?

There is the issue though, that as you climb the mountain, you'll find yourself increasingly alone. Or put more in the vernacular, as your paradigm shifts, your common ground with other humans will for the most part erode.


I've pretty much already reached that point of isolation. For example, it feels like I'm talking to children when I talk to most people about religion.
It's a moth and flame thing. I'd much rather burn myself up, and push my limits 'till I drop, then be bored by society forever.
Full Disclosure: If it sounds like I'm lecturing, it's because it's verbose to write "in my opinion" before everything I write. It's also because I'm confident in what I think, or else I wouldn't think what I do. Please do deconstruct my thoughts.

Argumentation is combat. By accepting, you must be willing to lose. The more I am wrong, the more I can be right.
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Re: How far does the rabbit hole go?

Postby Cerber » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:40 pm

blindwake wrote:I've pretty much already reached that point of isolation. For example, it feels like I'm talking to children when I talk to most people about religion.
It's a moth and flame thing. I'd much rather burn myself up, and push my limits 'till I drop, then be bored by society forever.

You are not special, almost everyone here thinks he/she reached some sort of spiritual and intellectual superiority. Some are quite good at hiding it and still able to interact with the world outside of their bubble. You thought you were alone, but it turns out you are part of big community all along, surprise! [yay]
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Re: How far does the rabbit hole go?

Postby blindwake » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:26 pm

You are not special, almost everyone here thinks he/she reached some sort of spiritual and intellectual superiority. Some are quite good at hiding it and still able to interact with the world outside of their bubble. You thought you were alone, but it turns out you are part of big community all along, surprise! [yay]


I wouldn't go as far as to say that I'm intellectually or spiritually superior in some way. I find I'm just more open minded than most people I interact with. People tend to turn into gremlins when I converse about religion, abortion, or literally anything that actually matters. It's even worse when I'm talking in a group setting, as people tend to fall into herd thinking very quickly.

But what's the point of interacting outside your bubble if you have to hide yourself? At that point you're basically treating people as tools. Never connecting on a real level.
On a whole, I would still call this community quite isolated. There's maybe 10 consistently active members here.
Full Disclosure: If it sounds like I'm lecturing, it's because it's verbose to write "in my opinion" before everything I write. It's also because I'm confident in what I think, or else I wouldn't think what I do. Please do deconstruct my thoughts.

Argumentation is combat. By accepting, you must be willing to lose. The more I am wrong, the more I can be right.
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Re: How far does the rabbit hole go?

Postby Cerber » Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:08 pm

Well did you ever managed to connect to any human, I mean real deep honest connection?
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Re: How far does the rabbit hole go?

Postby blindwake » Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:46 pm

The people where I live are very bitter. Small town. Religious. Odd mentality. Having an honest deep connection is synonymous with giving people ammunition to tear you down socially.

In part, yes, but never fully. In the end, it's not truly necessary to connect fully, but to get little bits of resource where you can. You can't expect any one person to be overly significant.
Full Disclosure: If it sounds like I'm lecturing, it's because it's verbose to write "in my opinion" before everything I write. It's also because I'm confident in what I think, or else I wouldn't think what I do. Please do deconstruct my thoughts.

Argumentation is combat. By accepting, you must be willing to lose. The more I am wrong, the more I can be right.
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Re: How far does the rabbit hole go?

Postby Cerber » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:11 am

blindwake wrote:The people where I live are very bitter. Small town. Religious. Odd mentality. Having an honest deep connection is synonymous with giving people ammunition to tear you down socially.

In part, yes, but never fully. In the end, it's not truly necessary to connect fully, but to get little bits of resource where you can. You can't expect any one person to be overly significant.

Truly and fully deep connection comes with a price. I wouldn't do it with just anyone. Because you have turn off defences, like tearing down one wall of your house and you have rely on that other one to keep your house both warm and safe from pests, thieves and everything else you rather not have under your bed. And chain only as strong as strong it's weakest link. Or your house as clean as clean your dirtiest room mate, neighbour, or something like that.
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Re: How far does the rabbit hole go?

Postby Cerber » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:50 pm

You do love dots, don't you? Few here and there would be plenty. Could you please try to keep tree casualties to a minimum? Thanks a bunch
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Re: How far does the rabbit hole go?

Postby blindwake » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:33 am

Truly and fully deep connection comes with a price. I wouldn't do it with just anyone. Because you have turn off defences, like tearing down one wall of your house and you have rely on that other one to keep your house both warm and safe from pests, thieves and everything else you rather not have under your bed. And chain only as strong as strong it's weakest link. Or your house as clean as clean your dirtiest room mate, neighbour, or something like that.


Agreed.

To be honest, I've never really understood the necessity for a deep connection anyway. People chase things like love, family, whatever. At the end of the day though, all you're doing is using people as a crutch to fulfill some emotional need. I think it's better to just remove the emotional need rather than try to fill it. Otherwise you're like a man on a sinking boat, bucketing out water, but too scared to just plug the hole.

You do love dots, don't you? Few here and there would be plenty. Could you please try to keep tree casualties to a minimum? Thanks a bunch


Was that directed at me?
Full Disclosure: If it sounds like I'm lecturing, it's because it's verbose to write "in my opinion" before everything I write. It's also because I'm confident in what I think, or else I wouldn't think what I do. Please do deconstruct my thoughts.

Argumentation is combat. By accepting, you must be willing to lose. The more I am wrong, the more I can be right.
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Re: How far does the rabbit hole go?

Postby Stukov » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:13 am

I wouldn't expect an answer, many in this thread haven't been on in a quite a while.
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Re: How far does the rabbit hole go?

Postby blindwake » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:18 am

?? Cerber was on a few hours ago.
Full Disclosure: If it sounds like I'm lecturing, it's because it's verbose to write "in my opinion" before everything I write. It's also because I'm confident in what I think, or else I wouldn't think what I do. Please do deconstruct my thoughts.

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Re: How far does the rabbit hole go?

Postby Stukov » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:23 am

blindwake wrote:?? Cerber was on a few hours ago.


Apparently, I must need to go to bed.
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Re: How far does the rabbit hole go?

Postby Cerber » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:10 am

blindwake wrote:Was that directed at me?

No Idea. It doesn't make sense to me now, so my best guess there used to be somebody's else post in-between that's long gone.

blindwake wrote:Agreed.

To be honest, I've never really understood the necessity for a deep connection anyway. People chase things like love, family, whatever. At the end of the day though, all you're doing is using people as a crutch to fulfill some emotional need. I think it's better to just remove the emotional need rather than try to fill it. Otherwise you're like a man on a sinking boat, bucketing out water, but too scared to just plug the hole.

I was talking more about practical side of things. Two entities of same or similar calibre yet not exactly same in terms of abilities and strengths forming deep bond for practical reasons to operate as a tandem, something a bit greater than a sum of two. Then you are larger, smarter, stronger, can see farther etc. If you sync properly and achieve adequate level of cohesion, your combines "strength" not doubles but increases by an order of magnitude, potentially. You are not some loosely bunched up heavy agregore, you are tightly bonded tandem that is faster, lighter much more reactive. In such shape you are able to operate in entirely different level, deal with greater dangers and challenges, hunt much larger pray or defend against larger foe. I'm talking from personal experiences, not theoretical and hypothetical ideas. Just because most of my experiences are usually somewhat of a aggressive nature the imagery you might get from my examples might be a bit limiting. But I believe you could choose to form a "practical" bond for bunch of other reasons and specific goals, like healing, or solving some difficult problem or creating something etc etc
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Re: How far does the rabbit hole go?

Postby blindwake » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:25 am

No Idea. It doesn't make sense to me now, so my best guess there used to be somebody's else post in-between that's long gone.


That sounds about right.

I was talking more about practical side of things. Two entities of same or similar calibre yet not exactly same in terms of abilities and strengths forming deep bond for practical reasons to operate as a tandem, something a bit greater than a sum of two. Then you are larger, smarter, stronger, can see farther etc. If you sync properly and achieve adequate level of cohesion, your combines "strength" not doubles but increases by an order of magnitude, potentially. You are not some loosely bunched up heavy agregore, you are tightly bonded tandem that is faster, lighter much more reactive. In such shape you are able to operate in entirely different level, deal with greater dangers and challenges, hunt much larger pray or defend against larger foe. I'm talking from personal experiences, not theoretical and hypothetical ideas. Just because most of my experiences are usually somewhat of a aggressive nature the imagery you might get from my examples might be a bit limiting. But I believe you could choose to form a "practical" bond for bunch of other reasons and specific goals, like healing, or solving some difficult problem or creating something etc etc


Army of two. I like it. I also appreciate the utilitarian approach to the topic. Are we talking about magick here or the mundane?

I can think of all sorts of reasons I'd want a people to help in magick. It's quite literally impossible to produce certain results without at least a second person. Unless you can figure out how to be at two places at one time. Quite frankly, the whole individual spirituality approach to magick really pisses me off. A research team would be useful.

As for mundane matters, I agree, but inevitably someone has to lose out of the group. People have a tendency to cash out of affairs when the heat picks up. It's poor strategy to be the better guy.

It's definitely useful to have other people. It's the bonding part that I don't get. If anything, I'd create a false persona, and give the other person that. Then they can have their bond and I can have an aid without possible blowback. Besides, it'd be fun playing an act.
Full Disclosure: If it sounds like I'm lecturing, it's because it's verbose to write "in my opinion" before everything I write. It's also because I'm confident in what I think, or else I wouldn't think what I do. Please do deconstruct my thoughts.

Argumentation is combat. By accepting, you must be willing to lose. The more I am wrong, the more I can be right.
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Re: How far does the rabbit hole go?

Postby Cerber » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:14 am

blindwake wrote:I can think of all sorts of reasons I'd want a people to help in magick. It's quite literally impossible to produce certain results without at least a second person. Unless you can figure out how to be at two places at one time. Quite frankly, the whole individual spirituality approach to magick really pisses me off. A research team would be useful.

Individual growth is limited. Eventually you either end stuck being just that - you, or you have to try become part of something greater than the sum of all.

blindwake wrote:As for mundane matters, I agree, but inevitably someone has to lose out of the group. People have a tendency to cash out of affairs when the heat picks up. It's poor strategy to be the better guy.

My experience is very specific and maybe even personal. We were "designed", meant to operate in such way for that patch of the road, to reach intended destination, which we did. There were never any risks or concerns of such nature, we had a common "hard-coded" goal from the start. Because of all that my experience should be taken as nothing more but as a general reference.

blindwake wrote:It's definitely useful to have other people. It's the bonding part that I don't get. If anything, I'd create a false persona, and give the other person that. Then they can have their bond and I can have an aid without possible blowback. Besides, it'd be fun playing an act.

Why would you create a false persona? That wouldn't give desired results. You supposed to bond what you are with what the other party is. The level of trust and openness required is quite a bit above what most people would feel comfortable with. Can you imagine working with somebody completely naked, naked in all ways - mind, body and soul? Well more or less I'd say that comparison comes fairly close.
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Re: How far does the rabbit hole go?

Postby blindwake » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:36 am

Individual growth is limited. Eventually you either end stuck being just that - you, or you have to try become part of something greater than the sum of all.


Agreed.

My experience is very specific and maybe even personal. We were "designed", meant to operate in such way for that patch of the road, to reach intended destination, which we did. There were never any risks or concerns of such nature, we had a common "hard-coded" goal from the start. Because of all that my experience should be taken as nothing more but as a general reference.


Sounds military. Though it might just be more so just another generation too. I see an unusual amount of non-dependability in newer generations.

Why would you create a false persona? That wouldn't give desired results. You supposed to bond what you are with what the other party is. The level of trust and openness required is quite a bit above what most people would feel comfortable with. Can you imagine working with somebody completely naked, naked in all ways - mind, body and soul? Well more or less I'd say that comparison comes fairly close.


Because it wouldn't give me the desired results if I did not have a false persona. There's nothing to bond with the other party. Quite simply doesn't work. Like trying to mix oil and water.
Most people bond over common traits. People have belief systems, moral codes, families, loved ones, identify with nationalities, are proud of their countries, whatever. There's nothing to relate by except skills.
I don't understand the basic concept of morals because they are illogical. I do not identify with a religion, country, group, whatever, because I feel no need for a sense of belonging.
And I have no emotional need to remain by a person's side. If I say I love someone, I'll probably be bored of them in a few months at most, then I'll ditch them. It gnaws at me to be bored.

I could imagine working with someone naked [crazy] , for sure. Mind and soul? I can read most people's emotional make up just by looking at how they walk. Most people are already naked mentally.

As for the soul, I have no idea what that means. Are you referring to their consciousness? It would indeed be a close bond if I could see through their eyes and they through mine.

I'm interested in this bond though. Could you explain it more thoroughly?
Full Disclosure: If it sounds like I'm lecturing, it's because it's verbose to write "in my opinion" before everything I write. It's also because I'm confident in what I think, or else I wouldn't think what I do. Please do deconstruct my thoughts.

Argumentation is combat. By accepting, you must be willing to lose. The more I am wrong, the more I can be right.
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Re: How far does the rabbit hole go?

Postby Cerber » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:02 pm

blindwake wrote:Sounds military. Though it might just be more so just another generation too. I see an unusual amount of non-dependability in newer generations.

Not quite, not exactly, but I wasn't "bred" for tending flowers either. A slightly different kind.

blindwake wrote:Because it wouldn't give me the desired results if I did not have a false persona. There's nothing to bond with the other party. Quite simply doesn't work. Like trying to mix oil and water.
Most people bond over common traits. People have belief systems, moral codes, families, loved ones, identify with nationalities, are proud of their countries, whatever. There's nothing to relate by except skills.
I don't understand the basic concept of morals because they are illogical. I do not identify with a religion, country, group, whatever, because I feel no need for a sense of belonging.

Your human personality, likes and dislikes is of a secondary concern, you bond over something greater. Differences in perception, abilities and experiences are meant to supplement not too divide. You don't bond merely for fun, or for company, or so you could do more of the same. You bond so you could do things you couldn't on your own as two separate beings. Like in a military, there are units that cannot operate to their full potential if they are cut off from other units, some units entirely dependant for survival on other units while in exchange providing crucial intelligence or other mission critical support. It's an asymmetrical type of bond, sort of.
Your human emotions need to be kept in check, especially if your partner of an opposite sex. As it was in my case. When you are that close to somebody it's only natural to start having some feelings and emotions. We had few moment when we start drifting a bit on one or another side. But you do your best and keep your eyes locked on the main objective, the "prime directive". You must be able to lift your self a bit above your humanity.

blindwake wrote:As for the soul, I have no idea what that means. Are you referring to their consciousness? It would indeed be a close bond if I could see through their eyes and they through mine.

Not to that level of clarity but you, potentially, able to sense every ripple on the other side of that bond and vice versa, and to some extent "see" what's around him/her. Soul is what you are left with when all your flesh is stripped away, all your mortal feelings, dreams, thoughts and believes.
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Re: How far does the rabbit hole go?

Postby blindwake » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:29 am

Your human personality, likes and dislikes is of a secondary concern, you bond over something greater. Differences in perception, abilities and experiences are meant to supplement not too divide. You don't bond merely for fun, or for company, or so you could do more of the same. You bond so you could do things you couldn't on your own as two separate beings. Like in a military, there are units that cannot operate to their full potential if they are cut off from other units, some units entirely dependant for survival on other units while in exchange providing crucial intelligence or other mission critical support. It's an asymmetrical type of bond, sort of.


I understand and definitely agree. My point was more so that I have no idea where I would find people that would need or want that sort of bond. For most people, I think the "common goal" is to bond. That's like, all they care about. How many friends they have, being with family, conforming socially in order to get sex, etc.

When I use my natural skills on a task, for the less logically minded, it becomes a question of the end justifying the means. I have no concept of justification. Justification means that I gain more chess pieces than I lose. It doesn't matter if I lose the queen to win, so long as my overall position is always improving. Most people don't want that kind of help. They think it's the "wrong" way to approach a problem. In a military-esque environment, the differences make you stronger, but in day to day life, people want things done their way. They don't want to have naval units and foot soldiers because [crazy] "naval units are evil!".

Not to that level of clarity but you, potentially, able to sense every ripple on the other side of that bond and vice versa, and to some extent "see" what's around him/her.


Interesting.

Soul is what you are left with when all your flesh is stripped away, all your mortal feelings, dreams, thoughts and believes.


I know, but that's still abstract. If there's something remaining, it should be able to be quantified. Not necessarily in physical terms, but in terms of the functions of what is remaining. Such as if there are memory stores that exist separate from the body, whether there is a second brain type system that exists separate from the body, etc. I'm not arguing that there isn't something remaining, the point was to wonder what.
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Re: How far does the rabbit hole go?

Postby house6and12 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:59 am

blindwake wrote:How wide does the enlightened perspective get? I went from being a Christian with a belief that he knew everything, to an occultist that knows nothing. If I could open my perspective like that once, isn't it evident that I would have to do so yet again?

How far does the rabbit hole go? I feel like I'm following a progression very similar to Neo in the matrix. First he thought he knew everything about his world, then he disbelieved the truth, then when he believed, it was suddenly as if his world was like a dream. I can relate to being like Neo, before his life changed. I have to wonder if there are things which do not make sense, which are abound all the time, that I never notice. Surely when Neo was a citizen, trinity, morpheus, etc., were all still bending the environment, and doing the impossible. I must wonder then, if there are things like them that exist in this world too.

I've heard stories of magickians who gather on the astral plane, and have large orders of people. I wonder then if they must be organized at all on the physical plane. Franz Bardon mentions things such as levitation, walking on water, etc. There are fairy tales of necromancers that raise the dead. With evocation, I hear stories of people who say that they have evoked spirits to physical forms, in front of an audience. And this makes me wonder if the sword used in evocation has a practical purpose: to physically kill anything that shows up by accident or turns hostile (rather than it just being a symbol).

But there are people who also say that evocation only goes to a visual form, and that it's just a psychological hallucination. There are people who say that magick isn't actually strong enough to do things like walk on water, throw objects with your mind, etc. That it's all some "rule of attraction" or confirmation bias. But if we think that all the causal forces that exist, are just in the physical world, I have to wonder where this physical world came to begin with. If this world came from some other force, why couldn't that same force be used to undo the world, and change it? I am under the impression that people only say things are impossible because they have never seen them. But that isn't good reasoning, because if, for example, you look at Bavardon's book IIH, one of the first things taught is Silence.

What things have you seen which go beyond reason? How far have you seen down the rabbit hole?

I feel like there's so much more than meets the eye. That this physical world is just another plane. Much like the ones people astral project to. I feel like I'm dreaming, but I can't wake up.
If we can visit the other worlds, can the other worlds not visit us?
the best answer i can give study m theory its the finished form of Enstines general theory aka the theory of everything but you dont need to understand the pure theory the majors heads in quantum physics basically are going blue in the face doing docu campus talks pupblic speaking breaking the science down to a way a lay man understands, the short is there is an infinite number of universes and each hvas parallels playing out every possibility, as we understand it our universe has 11 dimensions dont think sci fi but geography a paper gride has two x and y a 3d object has x y and z there directions our reality has 11. say you u a 3d aware and you hold ur finger above a 2d world you dont exist to there senses but you press your finger on there surface by there point of you u came from no where
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Re: How far does the rabbit hole go?

Postby blindwake » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:19 am

the best answer i can give study m theory its the finished form of Enstines general theory aka the theory of everything but you dont need to understand the pure theory the majors heads in quantum physics basically are going blue in the face doing docu campus talks pupblic speaking breaking the science down to a way a lay man understands, the short is there is an infinite number of universes and each hvas parallels playing out every possibility, as we understand it our universe has 11 dimensions dont think sci fi but geography a paper gride has two x and y a 3d object has x y and z there directions our reality has 11. say you u a 3d aware and you hold ur finger above a 2d world you dont exist to there senses but you press your finger on there surface by there point of you u came from no where


I've looked into M-Theory minimally. I don't like it. The fact that they pulled the number 11 out of somewhere just seems wrong. Why not 31, 5, 12341, ... ? Also, as of yet, people can't falsify string theory or prove it, so it's not even really science because it's not testable; it's conjecture.

I really find it funny how science avoids philosophy like the plague. We're trying to describe the universe, yet we completely ignore trying to quantify what it even is. We just keep adding and removing complexities to mathematical theories.

Also, I disagree about the teaching thing. You cannot "break down" advanced mathematics so that it can be understood by a layman.
Full Disclosure: If it sounds like I'm lecturing, it's because it's verbose to write "in my opinion" before everything I write. It's also because I'm confident in what I think, or else I wouldn't think what I do. Please do deconstruct my thoughts.

Argumentation is combat. By accepting, you must be willing to lose. The more I am wrong, the more I can be right.
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Re: How far does the rabbit hole go?

Postby Spida » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:34 am

It's interesting though when you compare M-Theory to Kabbalah. Ten Dimensions, and Ten Sephiroth. One Spatially Extended Dimension comparable to Daath(the hidden dimension, or invisible Sephirah). So you have Ten plus One in both instances.

The number 11 is just the way the Dimensions add up: 4D Spacetime + 6 Curled up Calabi-yau Manifold and the One Spatially extended Dimension.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one!
- Albert Einstein

The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane!
- Nikola Tesla
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Re: How far does the rabbit hole go?

Postby Spida » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:55 am

The most precarious aspect of M-Theory is how they arrived at those Six Micro Dimensions. With attention directed back toward Kabbalah appear to align with the Six Sephiroth of Yetzirah; Six Points of the Hexagram. With the Sun at center.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one!
- Albert Einstein

The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane!
- Nikola Tesla
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Re: How far does the rabbit hole go?

Postby neofight » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:32 pm

blindwake wrote:
the best answer i can give study m theory its the finished form of Enstines general theory aka the theory of everything but you dont need to understand the pure theory the majors heads in quantum physics basically are going blue in the face doing docu campus talks pupblic speaking breaking the science down to a way a lay man understands, the short is there is an infinite number of universes and each hvas parallels playing out every possibility, as we understand it our universe has 11 dimensions dont think sci fi but geography a paper gride has two x and y a 3d object has x y and z there directions our reality has 11. say you u a 3d aware and you hold ur finger above a 2d world you dont exist to there senses but you press your finger on there surface by there point of you u came from no where


I've looked into M-Theory minimally. I don't like it. The fact that they pulled the number 11 out of somewhere just seems wrong. Why not 31, 5, 12341, ... ? Also, as of yet, people can't falsify string theory or prove it, so it's not even really science because it's not testable; it's conjecture.

I really find it funny how science avoids philosophy like the plague. We're trying to describe the universe, yet we completely ignore trying to quantify what it even is. We just keep adding and removing complexities to mathematical theories.


If this is how you feel then you probably wont be happy studying occult and magic. I have seen the same problem in a lot of magic circles- a lack of philosophical unity, even though they employ philosophical pretense. You cannot have it both ways: we either accept every opinion and action or we limit it to a certain ideal. If we limit it to a certain ideal, then that ideal needs to be clearly defined. I have seen huge amounts of intolerance in the occult community, as well as a lot of negativity towards one another. The overall philosophy of science, especially occult science, should be tolerance. Religion and particular philosophy is something specialized. Occult philosophy should be complete liberty.

Also you mention that bonding seems frivolous. Part of bonding is the exchange of energy, which validates our knowledge of who we are with and where we are. This energy exchange makes us feel alive, and gives us motive to move forward. I think we all like to trust that we know, and are understood, and are correct. This is a good reason to bond, and its probably why people adopt religious views- like you say- to belong. It sounds to me like you want this, but haven't found the words to say what your philosophy is, so that you can meet those whom you can bond with.
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Re: How far does the rabbit hole go?

Postby blindwake » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:42 pm

If this is how you feel then you probably wont be happy studying occult and magic. I have seen the same problem in a lot of magic circles- a lack of philosophical unity, even though they employ philosophical pretense. You cannot have it both ways: we either accept every opinion and action or we limit it to a certain ideal. If we limit it to a certain ideal, then that ideal needs to be clearly defined. I have seen huge amounts of intolerance in the occult community, as well as a lot of negativity towards one another. The overall philosophy of science, especially occult science, should be tolerance. Religion and particular philosophy is something specialized. Occult philosophy should be complete liberty.


The overall philosophy of science should be the scientific method. Tolerance has nothing to do with it. Belief has nothing to do with it. If science were about tolerance, it had might as well be religion. The point of science is to be objectively correct, not provide opinions; we have enough of those. What we need are verifiable procedures; inventions, not conjecture and speculations. For sure study, study must be done on certain assumptions in order to create an experiment, but when a theory is not verifiable it is useless except as banter.

The occult is inherently difficult to test. Hence, a mathematical approach needs to be taken rather than an experimental approach. The problem with the occult is that it separates itself so much from science, but magic is identical with science: any hyper advanced science will appear to be magic. The reason you have misjudged is because I am not studying history, "secrets", correspondences, etc. I'm studying applied philosophy.

Also you mention that bonding seems frivolous. Part of bonding is the exchange of energy, which validates our knowledge of who we are with and where we are. This energy exchange makes us feel alive, and gives us motive to move forward. I think we all like to trust that we know, and are understood, and are correct. This is a good reason to bond, and its probably why people adopt religious views- like you say- to belong. It sounds to me like you want this, but haven't found the words to say what your philosophy is, so that you can meet those whom you can bond with.


I have no need for validation. My knowledge is validated before I assimilate it, not after. Do error catching before you accept something, not after. Otherwise you get all sorts of unexpected bugs. My validation was my birth, for if I was invalid, I would not still be.

I'd argue that its the motivation alone that makes us feel alive, not the energy exchange. I mean, people observe energy exchanges all the time, but there's a big difference between observing something you want, and something you don't want. It's the dissonance between the human objective and reality which makes us feel alive. The nihilistic do not feel alive at death row, but lovers for sure might feel alive with dread. Death, the energy transfer, is constant, but both parties feel something different. The difference in feeling then, must be dependent on each individual's perspective and goals.

I don't trust that I am correct and understood. If I have deduced a fact, then it is fact until it is invalidated. No trust is necessary.
Unfortunately, I have no idea why belonging would be nice. I honestly wish I did, but I don't. If I were a red cube, it makes no sense for me to feel different in a pool of red cubes or blue cubes. I am still a cube.
I do have the words to say what my philosophy is. It's just that it takes roughly 50 pages of text and an above average intelligence to understand it. Most people are content with "jesus saves".
Full Disclosure: If it sounds like I'm lecturing, it's because it's verbose to write "in my opinion" before everything I write. It's also because I'm confident in what I think, or else I wouldn't think what I do. Please do deconstruct my thoughts.

Argumentation is combat. By accepting, you must be willing to lose. The more I am wrong, the more I can be right.
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