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Are you authentic?

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Are you authentic?

Postby inMalkuth » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:02 pm

In a world of billions of people, with even more billions of small things occurring every minute, and every second, one would wonder what separates them from another? From an overview, we would all appear the same. Every action- no matter how large or small to us, would seem to be just another mundane triviality of the mortal realm. When you do something you consider to be great, ask yourself; how many times has this same action occurred in the history of people that accounts to many billions?

If one believes in any form of Deity, this awareness would cause a person to ponder why a God would bother with any one of us at all? If one does not believe in any form of Deity, then still, one would wonder why any of it matters.

Ultimately the only real measure of life are the eyes beholding who we present ourselves to be, and the person we perceive ourselves as. This is a two-pronged perspective that, by studying philosophy and, to a lesser degree, the secret mysteries; we are able to understand and identify who we are, and how what we do causes a reaction in the world. Knowing the self is a necessary and noble pursuit that provides us with the control and knowledge to guide our vessels, and to understand the vessels that cross our paths on the water of life.

In the eyes of a God and in the eyes of mankind, the most important virtue is to be as true to what you believe as you can be. Every decision and action are wrapped up into a collection of events that represent you as a person, in my eyes and in your own. Obviously the question of ethics comes into play at this stage, but before that question is answered, it might be best to ask yourself this question: Are you authentic?
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Re: Are you authentic?

Postby blindwake » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:04 pm

In a world of billions of people, with even more billions of small things occurring every minute, and every second, one would wonder what separates them from another? From an overview, we would all appear the same. Every action- no matter how large or small to us, would seem to be just another mundane triviality of the mortal realm. When you do something you consider to be great, ask yourself; how many times has this same action occurred in the history of people that accounts to many billions?


That is insightful. It rings very true to me. Importance is found in the difference you make.

If one believes in any form of Deity, this awareness would cause a person to ponder why a God would bother with any one of us at all? If one does not believe in any form of Deity, then still, one would wonder why any of it matters.


I do not believe in any form of god in the sense of a creator, but I find it plausible that there could be entities spectating us as if we were mice in a maze. Not god, but a higher level of perspective.
It matters whether or not you believe in a god, because if you assume the non-existence of a god, you still are here, living and breathing. Even a nihilist would not argue that reality still exists regardless of the meaninglessness. What matters, then, is to make a meaning for yourself. To pick one thing you love, hold on to it through life times, and never let go. The act of doing is enough to create meaning.

Ultimately the only real measure of life are the eyes beholding who we present ourselves to be, and the person we perceive ourselves as. This is a two-pronged perspective that, by studying philosophy and, to a lesser degree, the secret mysteries; we are able to understand and identify who we are, and how what we do causes a reaction in the world. Knowing the self is a necessary and noble pursuit that provides us with the control and knowledge to guide our vessels, and to understand the vessels that cross our paths on the water of life.


I agree. Introspection is the beginning of change. If you are a program, you'll never be able to change your functions without analyzing them. You'll never grow.

In the eyes of a God and in the eyes of mankind, the most important virtue is to be as true to what you believe as you can be. Every decision and action are wrapped up into a collection of events that represent you as a person, in my eyes and in your own. Obviously the question of ethics comes into play at this stage, but before that question is answered, it might be best to ask yourself this question: Are you authentic?


Before I begin, I must digress, I do not believe in ethics, in the slightest. You will drive yourself mad trying to decide what is "right" and what is "wrong". The reality is, we are animals in an indifferent world. There are no morals built into the world, and those who abide by morals will always be crushed by those who do not. Think of the sickest, most "wrong", thing, then ask yourself, but isn't that "good", because the criminal enjoyed it? Isn't the criminal's joy at least as valuable as the victim's suffering? Reality is a double sided coin.

My ethics are simple: I do what I want as long as my benefits are greater than my losses. Other people don't even begin to come into play here. I treat karma like a points system. I don't believe in any kind of godly judge. When I gain karma, I can spend karma. If I hurt people's feelings, I have to help another person feel better. It's not about "law", it's about maintaining a place in civilization. If your karma goes too low, people hate you. But if it goes too high, you're a suck up that never uses their influence. Karma is meant to be spent. When you make someone dislike you, you'd best have someone that is willing to help protect you. Even altruism is ultimately self-centered.

I am not authentic in the slightest. If I were "authentic" to myself, my karma would be at negative infinity, and I would not be allowed on this planet. I think that applies to most people. They'd like to be able to be their "true selves", but they need act a double life if they want to survive within society. I'm pretty sure that most people working at McDonald's would rob a bank and live rich, in a heart beat, if they knew they wouldn't get caught. I believe I should be able to take whatever I want by force. Believing anything else is to be authority's lap dog.
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Re: Are you authentic?

Postby inMalkuth » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:07 pm

First, you say you have no ethics, but then you say when you believe in karma, and that when you hurt another persons feelings you need to make up for it by helping someone else feel better. This would imply that you actually have a moral point of view and believe in an ethic, because the ethic that grants you freedom and "karma points" is the one where you are nice.

I like that you dispute authenticity by saying that most people would rob a bank if they knew they could get away with it. However, if they knew they could rob a bank and not get caught, they probably would know an awful lot of other stuff that would make the need for money moot. That aside, when I speak of authenticity, I am saying that for those with an understanding and application of an ethic, if you follow it makes you authentic, because you are practicing what you preach (so to speak).

What you are implying in your words are that you would kill people, or rob, or whatever crime... if you were allowed, because that is the despondency you feel. I wonder though, that were you living in a world without consequence, would you still feel inclined to hate and destroy? Id imagine that you would have more interesting things to do (but you might try it once, just to see). I dont think this is who you are authentically, though. More than likely you fantasize about it because of the repression of some other, better emotion than anger. The real question of your life is to discover the source of this repression, or inability to manifest a desire. This is what Aleister Crowleys Magick is all about doing, and I would recommend interpreting his system from a personal, philosophical perspective, and try to attain the conversation with the angel, as what occurs is a total revelation of cause and choice from your past (among many other things) and it allows you to know and to do that which you will (authentically).
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Re: Are you authentic?

Postby blindwake » Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:27 pm

First, you say you have no ethics, but then you say when you believe in karma, and that when you hurt another persons feelings you need to make up for it by helping someone else feel better. This would imply that you actually have a moral point of view and believe in an ethic, because the ethic that grants you freedom and "karma points" is the one where you are nice.


I wouldn't call that ethics. That'd be like calling money ethics. There's nothing ethical at all about what I might spend my karma on. It's basically just another form of money.
It's not that I NEED to make up for it by helping someone else feel better. It's that if I make everyone my enemy, and don't invest invest in friends, I'm going to get seriously messed up because I won't have a defense.

I like that you dispute authenticity by saying that most people would rob a bank if they knew they could get away with it. However, if they knew they could rob a bank and not get caught, they probably would know an awful lot of other stuff that would make the need for money moot. That aside, when I speak of authenticity, I am saying that for those with an understanding and application of an ethic, if you follow it makes you authentic, because you are practicing what you preach (so to speak).


I was thinking of anarchy, not that the potential robbers would have any real knowledge edge on anyone else (while in civilization.) If you're in anarchy, and no one is going to come arrest you for robbing a bank, you're in the clear. Though, in anarchy, money would probably be rather useless. Bullets might be the new currency.

Ah, ok. Then I'm not authentic. Practicing what you preach is unnecessary. There's nothing wrong with being a hypocrite as long as you use hypocrisy effectively. To be honest, I admire a lot of cults (and mainstream religions), for their ability to take people's money and effectively give nothing back. I do however, make a point of never lying, because it makes people trust me more. I suppose that's authentic.

What you are implying in your words are that you would kill people, or rob, or whatever crime... if you were allowed, because that is the despondency you feel. I wonder though, that were you living in a world without consequence, would you still feel inclined to hate and destroy? Id imagine that you would have more interesting things to do (but you might try it once, just to see). I dont think this is who you are authentically, though. More than likely you fantasize about it because of the repression of some other, better emotion than anger. The real question of your life is to discover the source of this repression, or inability to manifest a desire. This is what Aleister Crowleys Magick is all about doing, and I would recommend interpreting his system from a personal, philosophical perspective, and try to attain the conversation with the angel, as what occurs is a total revelation of cause and choice from your past (among many other things) and it allows you to know and to do that which you will (authentically).


It's not despondency. My spirits are not low in any way. I'm not craving murder at all, or any other crime for that matter. I don't value human life enough for me to think I could edgy and cool for doing something like that. It's not hatred. It's just a useful strategy that has been cut off. Do you think organizations that utilize children in sweat shops even think about the suffering they're causing? They probably just think of their workers as expensive machinery. In western civilization, doing something as simple as overworking people, or paying them even a little less than what their work is worth, lowers your karma within society. Now imagine if I tried to open up a brothel or something like that? It has nothing to do with fantasies, emotion, whatever. It's just business.

I think people have twisted views on reality. They worry over hurting animals, for example, but it doesn't bother them in the slightest that they're killing grass every time they walk outside; they cherry pick based on public opinion. Me? I don't see the difference between using workers in a sweat shop, and a farmer harvesting a field. The only relevant difference is that the sweat shop workers are more likely to attack you when they get the chance. And that's where it pays off to not be a dick. You're better off just helping people out so that they willingly help you. Don't be wasteful with resources, and just help each other out.

As for Crowley, I don't believe in his stuff. I take every system I read with a grain of salt. Take what's useful, and leave the rest. I don't need to converse with an angel for some sort of "higher" view. I can just pull out a piece of paper and start formulating things myself. Or, I can do what normal people do and just go talk to a friend. If you really need an HGA and you can't find a friend, I recommend Clever Bot. It's pretty cool.

As for manifesting illegal desires. There's nothing I can't get in a lucid dream. Don't shit where you eat (though dream food tastes pretty good, to be honest.)
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Re: Are you authentic?

Postby inMalkuth » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:14 am

Ok then let me put it this way:

You actually live in an ethical system, one that acknowledges being helpful and kind as the better way than to be selfish and cruel. The fact that you choose to ignore that this is the law you live under is your choice.
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Re: Are you authentic?

Postby blindwake » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:29 am

That doesn't really make sense. I'm not choosing to be nice over being mean. Being cruel to one person is a way of helping another person. It's impossible to be kind to one person without being neglectful towards another.

Even something like making a friend could be seen as cruel to other people, because it takes away the time that friend would have to meet other people.

That's not ethics or morals. It's not an ideal. It's a strategy to keep in power.

It's not a law. Being cooperative is USUALLY helpful, but not always. And karma is only relevant if something can come back on me.

Are you authentic? Do you have a code of ethics?
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Re: Are you authentic?

Postby inMalkuth » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:30 am

blindwake wrote:That doesn't really make sense. I'm not choosing to be nice over being mean. Being cruel to one person is a way of helping another person. It's impossible to be kind to one person without being neglectful towards another.

Even something like making a friend could be seen as cruel to other people, because it takes away the time that friend would have to meet other people.

That's not ethics or morals. It's not an ideal. It's a strategy to keep in power.

It's not a law. Being cooperative is USUALLY helpful, but not always. And karma is only relevant if something can come back on me.

Are you authentic? Do you have a code of ethics?



Well then, by your definition, you might as well be cruel to everyone, because it will always give you good karma to spend.

And Im not sure if I am authentic or not, but I do know I have an ideal I try to aim for.
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Re: Are you authentic?

Postby blindwake » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:59 am

Well then, by your definition, you might as well be cruel to everyone, because it will always give you good karma to spend.


Not necessarily. It's just a weighting of resources.
Helping myself instead of others is always cruel to others, and nice to me (unless someone else benefits by accident.)
Helping others is always cruel to myself, and nice to them (unless I happen to benefit by accident.)
And when it comes to choosing sides in things, helping one side is always cruel to the other.

If I am purely selfish, the karma just straight negative.

And Im not sure if I am authentic or not, but I do know I have an ideal I try to aim for.


That's a poor response. Doesn't leave anything open for conversation. I'll take that as an intent to close.
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Re: Are you authentic?

Postby inMalkuth » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:10 am

First of all your falling into an ethical view again but failing to see it. Now you basically say that helping your self is always cruel to others. Ethics is all about what is fair and just, and cruelty by definition denotes an act that is unfair.

I think instead you should consider my other point, which is to simply be cruel to everyone because no matter what you do, someone loses, but according to your system, you will not. If you are going to associate selfishness to cruelty, the fact is that you should always and only consider your side and how to win from that view. Essentially, you should be a Satanist in the Anton Levay method. You could even fall into the supposed Crowley view of living according to your will alone (personally I dont think Crowleys goal is to ignore the rights and feeling of others, although on first examination it is easy to conclude).

So... go for it man. Be selfish. Its all we really know, its all we really have, and its the only way to discover what you truly desire, who you truly are, and how you truly want to be.
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Re: Are you authentic?

Postby blindwake » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:14 am

Ethics is all about what is fair and just, and cruelty by definition denotes an act that is unfair.


I literally don't understand the concept of ethics then. I'm not sure how I would define "fair and just". Is that like, some person's arbitrary decision? Maybe I'm out of the loop on these ethics things.
History is written by the victor. The losers are demonized. Therefore, I am always fair as long as I win. So, I can never be "cruel".

I never actually thought of cruelty in terms of fair. I always thought of it as the label for making someone's pain sensors go off without reason.
"Fair" didn't even occur to me. Basically, if someone is screaming, that's my normal interpretation of "cruel". To impose your will on another.

I think instead you should consider my other point, which is to simply be cruel to everyone because no matter what you do, someone loses, but according to your system, you will not. If you are going to associate selfishness to cruelty, the fact is that you should always and only consider your side and how to win from that view. Essentially, you should be a Satanist in the Anton Levay method. You could even fall into the supposed Crowley view of living according to your will alone (personally I dont think Crowleys goal is to ignore the rights and feeling of others, although on first examination it is easy to conclude).


I will definitely be cruel. I agree with Crowley's "do what you will shall be the whole of the law" (which I mean in the sense that I ignore the rights and feelings of others, as I have no problem with that interpretation.)
I said that it accrues negative karma (a better word would be "influence"), so I avoid it. I didn't say I actually cared about other people's feelings. I just care that they don't do stuff for me if they hate me.

So... go for it man. Be selfish. Its all we really know, its all we really have, and its the only way to discover what you truly desire, who you truly are, and how you truly want to be.


I agree wholeheartedly. There comes a point though, where you'll find yourself in jail if you do a bit too much "discovery" lmao.
We're on the same page, I think. It's just that I physically don't understand the concept of morals or ethics, so your words are a bit difficult for me.
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Re: Are you authentic?

Postby inMalkuth » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:42 am

Maybe I am the one that doesnt understand. I think of an ethic as a standard for observing the rights of another person. Its a line that I cant cross, or else I am doing something that takes away from that right. If I cross that line, it is immoral. For myself, a moral is in doing, and an ethic is in knowing. This might not be completely accurate, but ultimately they both recognize that some actions are right and some are wrong.

In your karma system you say that you are rewarded for helping people. That would indicate that it is the right thing to do, and would therefor be considered an ethical idea to help, and to help would be the moral thing to do. This is what I mean when I say you function by a moral code. You also say that there is no right action, because when you help someone you might be being cruel to another person, or that in helping them, your deed might prove to be cruel. So what I suggest is that when considering your moral actions, you might as well just do what you think is cruel, because either way you will accrue good karma to spend in your system of checks and balances. This rule is actually contradictory to your system though, because what you decided gave you good karma was the intention of helping, regardless of the outcome of it winding up to be cruel to someone else. Essentially, it is your sense of ethics that decided what is the moral thing to intend to do, and to do. You may not personally believe that it is an ethic that prevents you from being deliberately cruel, but it is.

A better way to view it is to think in terms of how I interpret chaos magicians to go about things. It seems to me that a magus of chaos will simply do, without consideration of good or bad. A true chaos magus will simply do whatever he or she is inclined to want to do at any given time, even if it would appear to be a negative outcome. It is not unlike your view; where good karma is accrued from any action because there is no way to control if it is cruel or not. However, a chaos magician does not do things for intention, but instead, they do it just to see what the result will be. It is essentially amoral. There is no gauge of good and evil, just result of the action.

It may be true that "hell is paved with good intentions" which, in my interpretation, means that I can do something thinking I am doing good, but it actually causes harm. I think it depends on the view of the person having the "good" deed done unto them. Obviously the person performing the deed thinks they are doing the right thing.

The point of having a good/evil meter is to know what you intend, and what you would like to see occur. It would be quite a bizarre world if we were all simply doing things "just to see the result" as the chaos magus would. The point of experimentation is to eventually accomplish a knowledge of outcome to action, and to adjust my actions according to the best result. Even a chaos magician will eventually find themselves deciding that certain things are bad, and certain things are good. This is the point where they are no longer "Doing whatever they will" and start to actually "Do What They Wilt". It is the grade of Ipsissimus, and it is a return to the innocence of our youth that was unburdened by amoral actions based off of contemplating the reality that I cannot predict the outcome of a good or evil deed. This new attainment, however, is guided by the actual knowledge that certain actions produce undesirable results, and to avoid them. None of us can live in a bubble where we take no action out of fear of the outcome; we all must do our best to guide ourselves into what we consider to be "the right way", and in this sense we establish ethical laws that create moral actions.
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Re: Are you authentic?

Postby blindwake » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:33 am

In your karma system you say that you are rewarded for helping people.


I am not rewarded by other people for helping them. I reward myself through helping them. The difference is that I am not following a standard of ethics, but am simply choosing my tools. There's no authority.

That would indicate that it is the right thing to do, and would therefor be considered an ethical idea to help, and to help would be the moral thing to do.


Ethics: Observing that others have rights, and that there are lines you should not cross.
Morals: Following ethics, or not following ethics.

I struggle to understand the concept of a "right". People don't have objective rights. What gives someone a "right", is that if I break the code that someone else makes, I'll be arrested.
We have power, not "rights". I think that when most people talk about "right" and "wrong", they are referring to things that should be upholded regardless of power. It is like honor.
I fail to see how a right can exist without power.

The reason people cling to "right" and "wrong", is because of empathy. They feel bad when they hurt other people, or when other people hurt people. Because of this, "ethics" (the lines they cannot cross), are built into their biology. People literally feel sick if they break their ethics. I don't understand this kind of ethics, because I don't feel anything when I watch someone get hurt. The empathy is missing.

I think there's a very big difference between "ethics" (the biological barriers to action), and a "code" (what you decide to follow). I would say I have a code, but not that I am ethical.

This rule is actually contradictory to your system though, because what you decided gave you good karma was the intention of helping, regardless of the outcome of it winding up to be cruel to someone else.


False, the intention is completely irrelevant. "good karma" means that someone owes me a favor, and "bad karma" means I owe someone else a favor, and they will try to forcibly cash in (like a bank seizing assets.)

Essentially, it is your sense of ethics that decided what is the moral thing to intend to do, and to do.


The intention is just a prediction of what will get me the most favors. It has nothing to do with me thinking about who gets hurt. If everyone gets hurt, and they feel inclined to give me favors, then that is positive karma. So, let's say I make a cult that strips people of everything they own, and also makes them want to serve me. That cult is good karma, because I have favors (even though the people are worse off.) This cult would be deliberately cruel, and I would be driven to manifest it for good karma. "cruel" is a guideline, because hurting people generally reduces favors (but not always.)

It is not unlike your view; where good karma is accrued from any action because there is no way to control if it is cruel or not.


False, not all actions will result in good karma. If I am cruel to people, in such a way that they will not want to give me favors, that is always bad karma (energy exerted without a useful result.)

It may be true that "hell is paved with good intentions" which, in my interpretation, means that I can do something thinking I am doing good, but it actually causes harm. I think it depends on the view of the person having the "good" deed done unto them. Obviously the person performing the deed thinks they are doing the right thing.


See, I don't have any delusions of "good intentions". Most people do things because they think they're the "good guys". They're self righteous. I literally haven't even taken the time to decide whether I'm "good" or "bad". It hasn't even occurred to me that I should need an ethical reason to do something, because there is no "filter" that I run my thoughts through, to decide what methods to my objective are "unacceptable". I just weigh the consequences against the results. The end always justifies the means as long as it's what I want. You can't pick a strategy as well as an outcome.

It would be quite a bizarre world if we were all simply doing things "just to see the result" as the chaos magus would.


It is quite bizarre, but that's exactly what I do. Ultimately, everything we do is "just to see the result". There is no absolute "why". Ask yourself why you eat every day. To not die? Why is dying bad? Because it hurts? Why is pain bad? ... It's all just cognitive bias. I find it enjoyable to do things that are deliberately stupid just to see what I can learn. For example, I might test human psychology, by seeing how much it takes before a certain personality thinks I'm a creep, etc. It's all just a sandbox game.

The point of having a good/evil meter is to know what you intend, and what you would like to see occur. It would be quite a bizarre world if we were all simply doing things "just to see the result" as the chaos magus would. The point of experimentation is to eventually accomplish a knowledge of outcome to action, and to adjust my actions according to the best result. Even a chaos magician will eventually find themselves deciding that certain things are bad, and certain things are good. This is the point where they are no longer "Doing whatever they will" and start to actually "Do What They Wilt". It is the grade of Ipsissimus, and it is a return to the innocence of our youth that was unburdened by amoral actions based off of contemplating the reality that I cannot predict the outcome of a good or evil deed. This new attainment, however, is guided by the actual knowledge that certain actions produce undesirable results, and to avoid them. None of us can live in a bubble where we take no action out of fear of the outcome; we all must do our best to guide ourselves into what we consider to be "the right way", and in this sense we establish ethical laws that create moral actions.


"The right way": that's the way that causes as many bits of new data to enter my head. The most twisted, crazy things, that you would never expect. I feed on new data. I love being confused.
It has nothing to do with "good" or "bad". It just has to be new. I feed on chaos.

In this way, you could say I am amoral. I have a randomizer switch in my head. Sometimes I spend time thinking of exactly what I want, then do the complete opposite. "Undesirable" is arbitrary.
Of course, because I am human, it is my duty to try and stay alive, because not following the "rules" kind of ruins the game. It loses structure if you cheat. So I do my best to ensure self preservation.
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Re: Are you authentic?

Postby inMalkuth » Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:29 am

My unmderstanding of what makes a self righteous pereson is not that they intend a good outcome, but that they think they are better than someone else for believing that they do so.

You have an interesting perspective on life, I hope it works well for you.
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Re: Are you authentic?

Postby blindwake » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:16 am

My unmderstanding of what makes a self righteous pereson is not that they intend a good outcome, but that they think they are better than someone else for believing that they do so.


I agree.

You have an interesting perspective on life


Really? How so? I doubt it's that atypical at all.
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Re: Are you authentic?

Postby chowderpope » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:48 am

Every creature on the planet is authentic, from the birds to the bugs.
Awake from sleep! Remember you're the son of a Great King, see to whom you're enslaved!
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Re: Are you authentic?

Postby inMalkuth » Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:24 pm

You might say that you for, it would be unethical to not do random stuff just to gain new information.

Also, the fact that you bend your will to the surrounding standard of right and wrong for your own survival means that you are honoring an ethical code of conduct. It has nothing to do with whether you established this for yourself; it exists and you acknowledge it. You mention power. If you had the power to establish your own ethical way for things, what would it be? How do you think you would acquire this power?
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Re: Are you authentic?

Postby blindwake » Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:59 am

You might say that you for, it would be unethical to not do random stuff just to gain new information.


It would be unintelligent not to. I see that as different from ethics.

Also, the fact that you bend your will to the surrounding standard of right and wrong for your own survival means that you are honoring an ethical code of conduct


Honor implies a level of respect. I do not have that. It is merely intelligent to avoid trouble where necessary.

If you had the power to establish your own ethical way for things, what would it be? How do you think you would acquire this power?


In order for there to be a happy part of society, there must be a sad part of society. The high class feeds on the labor of the low class.
My happy part of society would be me, and the sad part of society would be everyone else. Unless of course, I wanted a specific group of people to be happy, in which case I would extend my selfishness to them.

I wouldn't acquire this power. It's not feasible. Not in this world anyway, and not for me. Not unless a miracle happens.

Besides, I'd get bored quite quickly if I could indulge myself with a resistance free playground.
Because of the boredom, I would very quickly give random individuals my own power, in order to cause chaos. Then we'd end up back at square one, where I had no power.
If all brains are made roughly the same, then why do I perceive through my own? What special characteristic places me in this skull?
I do not move throughout the world. The engines do not move the ship, but the universe.
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Re: Are you authentic?

Postby Kath » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:13 pm

Nope, nothing really matters a whole lot. Even the idea of something 'mattering' is a "beholder's viewpoint" sort of idea, it's placing value or the lack thereof on things which *really* have no value, until we make it so by way of audience.

I did draw the attention of an infinite consciousness, something basically like a deity in the sense outside of religious dogma, and interacted with her extremely intimately and regularly for many years. Presumably this was because a wide range of factors ranging from things like aptitude, to things beyond my control, aligned to create a situation where I would make a receptive and intuitive student. Or, she was my higher self, and had a vested interest. Whichever way you like the narrative.

I find a disconnect between the person I present myself as, and the person I perceive myself to be. The former is mostly just about getting along with the natives. While the latter is ineffable anyway.

I'm not so concerned with being true to what I "believe". Faith is a dirty word, and belief is really a sort of faith. I think things, when i have reason to think them. I don't "believe" in things.
Being true to your beliefs is a gross misstep, you beliefs change, and are often wrong.
You must instead be true to your nature.
Not any one bit of it, I mean your nature 'entire'. The most holistic expression of your wildly varying myriad facets of consciousness.
Of course many of these facets disagree about many things. So, you'll have to make choices.
I don't recommend bringing any prejudgement, moral platitudes, or squeamishness to the table when you try to sort through your nature.
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Re: Are you authentic?

Postby neofight » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:53 pm

This topic represents the kinds of things I think about. It seems like most occultists are simply non-committal folk that want liberty in a world that has restrictions. It almost feels like wandering around a group of lost souls. Fear of committing to an ideal is not liberty, it is loss. When a person has a goal or perception to work with, they are able to accomplish, and acquiring is what I want to do- and it would seem that this is what magic is supposed to be about. It might be a vulnerability to have a want- but without it, I might as well not exist. Also it appears that when pressed, people with this kind of attitude will subtly admit that there is a foundation out there, but have simply not put it into words just yet. Isn't discovering and acquiring the whole reason to study possibility? I don't personally want to wander around in an amoral haze where I do not allow myself to believe anything. This kind of attitude sounds like the actions of someone that has fallen to pain or failure, and is trying to avoid feeling the defeat of that loss again. In the grand scheme of life, it doesn't represent what it takes to survive, and I don't think it is logical, or natural, or philosophically sound.
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Re: Are you authentic?

Postby chowderpope » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:43 pm

I think you're making unfounded generalizations about people who practice magic.
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Re: Are you authentic?

Postby neofight » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:45 am

Its just something I see a lot of so I have to assume.
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Re: Are you authentic?

Postby Shawn Blackwolf » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:03 am

To assume is as dangerous as to believe...

Let me explain regarding belief...

Belief in anything carries , and requires *charge* , which acts
as both an impetus , and a blockage to change , dependent on
the type of charge , and how it is applied...

Desire is extension of charge , and it seeks it's mate , fulfillment...

Fear is a charge , an ideal is a crystallized concept , on it's way to
becoming a frozen dogma...

Believing in something "with all your heart" is a magical act , which
*sets* a pattern , and sets in motion energy to bring it into being...

Therefore it is most important to choose wisely , and taking the time
to consider all implications of belief and the resultant possibilities ,
thru the manifestation of one's desire...

A person , studying / learning desire and possibility , leads to a search
and quest for power...which sets in motion a further chain of need ,
requiring more energy , information input , change and sacrifice...

To assume any less...is dangerous... [wink]

Good to "see" you , Chowderpope...miss your input here... [thumbup]
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Re: Are you authentic?

Postby neofight » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:11 am

Totally agree with your summation.
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Re: Are you authentic?

Postby Pinocchio » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:11 pm

Shawn Blackwolf wrote:To assume is as dangerous as to believe...

Let me explain regarding belief...

Belief in anything carries , and requires *charge* , which acts
as both an impetus , and a blockage to change , dependent on
the type of charge , and how it is applied...

Desire is extension of charge , and it seeks it's mate , fulfillment...

Fear is a charge , an ideal is a crystallized concept , on it's way to
becoming a frozen dogma...

Believing in something "with all your heart" is a magical act , which
*sets* a pattern , and sets in motion energy to bring it into being...

Therefore it is most important to choose wisely , and taking the time
to consider all implications of belief and the resultant possibilities ,
thru the manifestation of one's desire...

A person , studying / learning desire and possibility , leads to a search
and quest for power...which sets in motion a further chain of need ,
requiring more energy , information input , change and sacrifice...

To assume any less...is dangerous... [wink]

Good to "see" you , Chowderpope...miss your input here... [thumbup]


Totally Awesome Reply...
But the part wherein found is a predetermined design is missing. Thus our way home is often cut off from us.
there are no strings on me...
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Re: Are you authentic?

Postby Thaumaturgic Theorist » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:45 pm

blindwake wrote:Before I begin, I must digress, I do not believe in ethics, in the slightest. You will drive yourself mad trying to decide what is "right" and what is "wrong". The reality is, we are animals in an indifferent world. There are no morals built into the world, and those who abide by morals will always be crushed by those who do not. Think of the sickest, most "wrong", thing, then ask yourself, but isn't that "good", because the criminal enjoyed it? Isn't the criminal's joy at least as valuable as the victim's suffering? Reality is a double sided coin.


A common argument against that however, might be a utilitarian one. Even if both the perpetrator's pleasure and the victim's pain are equally worthy of consideration, many would assume the latter is greater than the former. The criminal's thrill or satisfaction from what they've done (assuming they even derived any) is likely less in magnitude of feeling than how the victim suffered and/or will suffer afterwards

I am not authentic in the slightest. If I were "authentic" to myself, my karma would be at negative infinity, and I would not be allowed on this planet. I think that applies to most people. They'd like to be able to be their "true selves", but they need act a double life if they want to survive within society. I'm pretty sure that most people working at McDonald's would rob a bank and live rich, in a heart beat, if they knew they wouldn't get caught.


I see this view a lot, that people are just brainwashed into being decent and would be monsters otherwise. That a person's "authentic" self is vicious and cruel and amoral at best. I disagree, simply. Most people are decent, with a genuinely felt sense of right or wrong, and want to do right. Fine, so there's an egoic aspect to it - doing good feels good and improves one's status in society, usually. What does that have to do with anything? People still have empathy, and can understand negative consequences of actions, and rationalize the feeling that such and such isn't right or fair. Wherever those thoughts came from - societal brainwashing, divine revelation, or an innate tendency that's an expected part of having a human brain - people live by them.

I'm a little tempted to armchair analyze you like OP did, but I won't, beyond: do you have ASPD? Because your worldview is reading like a textbook description of ASPD.
Last edited by Thaumaturgic Theorist on Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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