What does union with God mean?

[Tara2011]

In Gnostic, Eastern, and New Age texts that I have read, our ultimate destination is union with God. But what does union with God mean? Do we approach God and then become absorbed into God, and in a sense "die?" Or do we stay an individual entity, yet experience a relationship that is complete? What would be the point in striving to overcome earthly existence if we just disappear?

[dodaive]

One of the most common uses of the word god is the absolute objective truth that exists, Although we can argue about what that is, I do think it is logical that for any given moment there is only one true state of the cosmos. In Chinese cosmology this objective truth Dao é

[Ula]

I view god as the Creator. He is the former of the elements, physics, math and all the principles that make the universe work. To become one with god to me says all hidden things become known, all scientific processes become know and understood. I like to think we retain some part of ourself or soul and that some part of our consciousness is never-ending.

[Madavascus]

Dear Tara2011,

This is a question more than a thousand philosophers and mystics have tackled with since the dawn of man, and it would be rather unlikely that we arrive at a definitive answer on this forum, but nevertheless we can try to answer it the best we can.

Despite the difficulties in finding a definitive answer to the question, I think understanding this hypothetical process of transcendence may not be as complex as commonly held. The individual or particular soul becomes one with the universal, that is by a sort of ascent or apotheosis caused by knowledge of the individual's soul inherent divinity, or identity with the universal. So, union with the Divine, or God, means that the soul has understood (or rather, has come to know) of its own divine nature.

[yyxx]

He is the former of the elements, physics, math and all the principles that make the universe work.

This is me splitting hairs that I believe need splitting: physics, mathematics and any other models used to describe aspects of "what is" are in no way a sort of foundation for what they describe. Is language equivalent to the thoughts and concepts it was created to convey?

Also, I think the pronoun "He" implies separation from 'God'.

[Ula]

He is the former of the elements, physics, math and all the principles that make the universe work.

This is me splitting hairs that I believe need splitting: physics, mathematics and any other models used to describe aspects of "what is" are in no way a sort of foundation for what they describe. Is language equivalent to the thoughts and concepts it was created to convey?

Also, I think the pronoun "He" implies separation from 'God'.

I am not really sure what about my feeling there is a creator who is the former of those concepts some how limits what he is. You ask if language is equivalent to what it conveys in a way yes. We use a certain word to express what we are thinking or feeling. Those words have merit and power in them. Are you asking if the language is less than the concept? I am not sure what that means.

While we are in our physical body we are separate from god.

[Phronesis]

This question is absolutely fundamental to mysticism, and in my opinion, if a tradition or teacher cannot define this accurately for you, you should have nothing to do with them. You shouldn't have to follow anyone mystically who has not at least attained union with God in consciousness, the bare minimum required for a true guru in Yoga, although far below the standard for a true Hierophant in magic.

As all the major mystical traditions teach, the source of everything is an infinite consciousness, called either nothingness or God depending on the tradition. The details of the creation process are subjects of higher teaching, and you have undoubedly come across the simplified, basic versions, such as the creation of the Word which is then bound by a divine mother figure, giving birth to the world. All of it is veiled symbolism that is outside the scope of this post.

The major mystical traditions also teach that mankind is made in the image of God, infused with a divine indweller. He has a divine aspect that seems almost unreachable. This divine aspect is what we seek union with. It is the divine Idea of "you," which actually shares the consciousness of God, as described above. It's a little known teaching that, in the archetypal-divine realms, everything shares the same consciousness, which we call God. All the various deities are different entities only in that they express themselves with different energies. To unite with any one of the Gods, therefore, is to unite with the consciousness underlying all of them. Likewise, your own divine archetype partakes of the consciousness of God, but is naturally inclined towards expressing itself with certain energies that make it unique. Therefore, to unite with your divine spark is to unite with the infinite consciousness ("God") and all of the gods.
As a mystic, your first goal of training is to purify yourself to such a degree that your mind naturally exists in that divine state of consciousness. It is called Sahaj Samadhi in Yoga and Gnosis in Theurgy, and it is quite far beyond the so-called "Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel" that the Golden Dawn speaks of. There are various degrees of it. At first, it is a fleeting state of meditation where you can feel the oneness of everything. Eventually it becomes a normal mode of living, where you constantly feel yourself as a part of God and everything else. You consciously "feel" your connection, and you simultaneously operate in the divine realm, the mental realm, astral realm, and physical realm with perfect awareness. At this stage, we say a person has united with God at a basic level. Even if you have attained this state, you do not necessarily have any "magical powers." Usually you will have some degree of magical authority in the universe, though.

There is a higher degree of union with God in consciousness, called Nirvikalpa Samadhi in yoga or Henosis in Theurgy. At this stage, you experience yourself as God, not just as an aspect of God. In Theurgy we reach this state by becoming God on every level of existence. So at first you unite with God in consciousness, as described above. Then you seek to unite with God on the mental plane, which entails completely mastering the mental plane. That is, you seek to perfect your faculties on the mental plane and harmonize every aspect of yourself with its corresponding aspect in the universe. Then you do the same with the astral plane, and finally the physical plane. Through this complete mastery process, we attain complete union with God, and obtain very powerful magical authority over our universe.

There is no loss of identity in any of this. It's a common misconception, but it's one that the gurus and hierophants frequently comment on. You are constantly becoming your true self more and more throughout this process; it's not like you just "dissolve." In becoming your true self, you realize that in one respect you are united with everything else. Even after you attain this state, you still have some unique features, a unique personality of sorts, because your particular soul will naturally express itself in a unique way, using certain energies more than others. As Crowley said, every person is a star. Every person can offer something unique to the universe.

[Archangelos]

In Gnostic, Eastern, and New Age texts that I have read, our ultimate destination is union with God. But what does union with God mean? Do we approach God and then become absorbed into God, and in a sense "die?" Or do we stay an individual entity, yet experience a relationship that is complete? What would be the point in striving to overcome earthly existence if we just disappear?

Good question. You might want to do some readings in some of the old world Eastern Orthodox theology of the 'Henosis'. Henosis is the New Testament Greek word signifying the oneness or unity to which you refer. Is it first used in canonical scripture by non other than Jesus Christ in the Gospel of St John, cap. 17: "That they may be One, Father: I in Them, Thou in Me, that they may be All in One. Such references and mysteries given by Jesus also refer back to Hebrew ideas of Achad and Union. "Hear, O Israel! IHVH thy G-D is Unity! And thou shalt hold AHAV for IHVH thy G-D with all they Heart, with all thy Soul, with all thy Mind, and with all thy Vigar."

I suggest a course of reading in the Johannine literature and many of the eastern fathers.

This is a very brief intro to a universal subject. Crowley came the closest to explaining it with his marriage of Thelema and Agape. Basically, if you want the short answer, just flip Crowley right side up and you'll be close.

If you want the long answer..well, it's a long way to the top of the Mountain of Beatification. I suggest you start walking.

You might find that there was a whole lot more wisdom in "considering the lilies of the field" than you ever thought.

[Nahemah]

The individual or particular soul becomes one with the universal, that is by a sort of ascent or apotheosis caused by knowledge of the individual's soul inherent divinity, or identity with the universal. So, union with the Divine, or God, means that the soul has understood (or rather, has come to know) of its own divine nature.

QFT.

Also, I think the pronoun "He" implies separation from 'God'.

And Again...QFT.

[weezyfosheezy]

I think that once you die you get a Union with God or Satan. If you are pure of heart your spirit ends up tilting the scales towards a happier, fairer, and love filled Earth. If you have a Union you spirit ends to tilt the scale towards agony, injustice, and hate filled Earth.

What actually happens to ones own soul is a mystery to well everyone haha, and no matter your religion your essence will go to one side or another. A devote Christian (by misinterpretation scripture and not listening to ones own heart) can help Satan and an atheist can help God (simply by listening to ones heart). Believing in it just adds incentive not end game. I bet there are a ton of atheist with a union with God dam surprised.

[Shamash]

The way I see it, union with god means the collapse of the material veil of consciousness (i.e. the Demiurge) and ultimate ascension to the true absence of all existence and cognition (I believe this reality is what is known as the Monad, though I'm more accustomed to naming it the Tao or Nammu, since I'm very new to Gnosticism). That may be interpreted as death, but I'm not so sure that's how it'll work. There's only one way to find out for sure and it's likely irreversible, so I'll settle for ignorance until then.

[manofsands]

Well met and Welcome. You dug pretty deep into the archives for a 1st post.

In questions like this, it is always, of course, IMHO.

To the OP topic...

I think all is God. We are shards of God. Thru multiple lives and lessons we evolve spiritually. At some point we choose to discard our lower vehicle. I can't imagine this is anything like 'disappearing'. You don't have to worry. If such a thought scares you, you aren't ready for it to happen and it won't.

[Shamash]

Well met and Welcome. You dug pretty deep into the archives for a 1st post.

In questions like this, it is always, of course, IMHO.

To the OP topic...

I think all is God. We are shards of God. Thru multiple lives and lessons we evolve spiritually. At some point we choose to discard our lower vehicle. I can't imagine this is anything like 'disappearing'. You don't have to worry. If such a thought scares you, you aren't ready for it to happen and it won't.

So do you believe in reincarnation, then? As in we are voluntarily reincarnated indefinitely until we are ready to become one with God? If so, that's an interesting concept. I've always thought of "reincarnation" in the Taoist sense that we all "borrow" life from God at birth and when we die that is returned and in a way recycled to a new being.

Thank you for the welcome, by the way. I found this forum while researching the archons and decided to give my opinion in this thread. I'm not too familiar with the occult as a unified field, so right now I'm just here for the Gnosticism.

[manofsands]

Yes, I do believe in reincarnation. To me it is the path of spiritual evolution.

And... I don't think the occult IS a unified field. It is more a collection fields unaccepted by the majority and thereby filed together.

[Shinichi]

Self-Realization is the achievement of the Microcosm being in complete harmony. All internal Forces are healthy and in balance, and the Spirit (Higher Self) has taken its proper seat in the Ego so that Consciousness is experienced directly instead of indirectly through Self-Awareness.

Divine Harmony, or God-Realization, is the achievement of the Microcosm and Macrocosm being in complete harmony. Internal and external Forces are in harmony with each other so that Macrocosmic Forces (the planets and stars, Fate, Karma, etc) no longer rule the Microcosm, and Microcosmic Consciousness has expanded and evolved to experience Macrocosmic Consciousness.

It's that simple.

Now, getting there can be incredibly complex, and there are many systems and methods of pursuing enlightenment. But the concept itself, when the religious and mystic overtones are stripped away, is incredibly simple and natural.

Shamash, the Eastern (and ancient Western) view of reincarnation is that it's not voluntary, but mandatory. When you live, and create karma through action and desire (not good or bad, just action and desire), you create a magnetic link to this world that pulls you back until those desires (cause) are fulfilled (effect). But then you make new desires (cause), and then you have to come back later and fulfill them (effect), while creating new desires (cause) again. This is the Wheel of Samskara. Transcending this cycle, so that you don't have to come back unless you do want to come back and teach others how to get out, is one of the aims of mysticism.



~:Shin:~

[TheRoller]

The deal on the table is the return OF Paradise and AT Paradise.

Come back home.

[Master Baphomet]

The idea of union with god is kabbalistic in origin and is rooted in Judaism.

Rabbi Solomon Cohen sum it up thus:

As explained in Lurianic teaching, when G-d first created the universe using the divine essence of His own creative energy, some of the kelim or vessels containing the individual particles of G-d's creative energy were accidentally damaged during the cataclysm of creation, causing some of those individual sparks of G-d's creative essence encapsulated within the ruptured vessels to become attached to the broken shards of the kelim that had contained them, which became the source of evil in the world.

Being the chosen people of G-d means that, as Jews, there resides within each of us a perfect kelim or vessel containing G-d's divine essence, symbolized by יוֹד, the letter Yod, so that a small part of G-d abides within each and every Jew who collectively, as the nation of Israel, forms the divine essence that is G-d. In this way we, as Jews, are distinguished from gentiles or goyim because they contain only the shards of the broken kelim that once held G-d's creative energy but were accidentally damaged during the process of creation.

For this reason, gentiles exist only to serve us, the Jewish people, as Rabbi Ovadia Yosef correctly pointed out in 2010 when he said "Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world - only to serve the people of Israel....Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat. That is why gentiles were created."

Thus when we die, as Jews, the divine essence of G-d's creative energy that forms our souls is ultimately returned to its source in the olam haba, or world to come, where it is absorbed into the collective energy that is G-d, while the broken shards of the shattered kelim that abide within gentiles animating them during their lives will remain in sheol, that is the grave, with their dead bodies until the end of time when sheol and the dead will ultimately be obliterated like refuse that was disposed of in the fires that continuously burned in the valley of Gehinnom outside of Jerusalem.

Of course the gentiles who have embraced that aberrant and corrupted form of our faith known as Christianity as their adopted religion have little understanding of the nature of the covenant. They delude themselves with both false hopes and misapprehensions that are rooted in their egregious misunderstanding of the Tanakh and in their pernicious belief in concepts that are completely alien to the Masoretic Text. These foreign notions are based on vestiges of the various forms of paganism that were the native religions of the goyim before they adopted the errant form of our faith that they adhere to.

There is perhaps no better example of how Judaism has been perverted by the ignorance and confusion of gentiles than can be found in their misinterpretation of sheol (the grave) as a fiery, burning, region of eternal suffering and torment, and their confusion of HaSatan with the malak Azazel as described in the Sefer Hanokh, a being who is futher misidentified as Lucifer, which is the Latin transliteration of the Hebrew word הֵילֵל heylel meaning the "light-bringer," a reference to the Morning Star (Venus), which the fallen King of Babylon is compared to in the Sefer Yesheyahu.

In their misunderstanding of the Tanakh, gentiles conceptualize HaSatan as רוח טומאה, or ruah tum'ah, an "unclean spirit," usually envisioning him in the form of a se’irim closely corresponding to the satyrs of Roman pagan mythology in terms of having a horned, goat-like, appearance. This clearly contradicts the role of HaSatan as a בני האלהים, or ben Elohim "Son of G-d," whose duty it is to test individuals and thereby determine the extent of their righteousness, as is made clear in the Sefer Yob which identifies HaSatan as a son of G-d, who is free to walk to and fro upon the earth and to stand in G-d's presence along with other benei Elohim, and acts only under G-d's authority and in accordance to G-d's will.

Likewise, gentiles prove intransigent in their misinterpretation of שְׁאוֹל, or sheol, "the grave," applying to it the name of Hell from the mythology of Germanic paganism, and misconceiving it as cavernous, subterranean, torture chamber of fire and molten brimstone where the souls of the unrighteous dead are forever punished in an unending state of eternal torment; a concept that is alien to both Judaism and the pagan mythologies of ancient Europe. This errant misconception, (like that of the gentiles' confusion between Azazel and HaSatan) seems to have been perpetuated by John Milton's poem Paradise Lost and by Dante Alighieri's Divina Commedia, both of which seem to have been enormously influential on the imaginations of impressionable gentiles whose efforts to comprehend the Tanakh appear to have been hopelessly affected by the aforementioned works and the resulting non-biblical folk mythology and superstition which permeates Christianity.

Clearly such notions have no foundation in the teachings of Judaism, where שְׁאוֹל, or sheol, is understood to mean "the grave," in both the literal and figurative sense as the place of burial, where both the righteous and the unrighteous are entombed upon their death. It seems that the Christian misinterpretation of sheol, "the grave" is tied to the fact that both it and Gehinnom, are transliterated into Latin as Hades, the mythological abode of departed spirits in Roman paganism, and into English as Hell, a similar realm in Germanic pagan myth.

The valley of Gehinnom, where ancient Jerusalem's refuse was discarded and burned, was likely chosen as the site of the city's dumping ground not only because of its convenient situation and topographical features which recommended it for such purposes, but also because that desolate location had formerly been a site dedicated to the Caananite idol Moloch, to whom infants had been offered in sacrifice, making it unclean and therefore a suitable area for burning discarded rubbish.

Because of this, Gehinnom is occasionally employed as a metaphor in both the Masoretic Text of the Tanakh, as well as in Christian scriptures, where it is used an an analogy for the destruction of death and the grave that will take place at the end of time when all of the individual particles of G-d's divine essence abiding within the souls of the Jewish people have been reunited with the supernatural source of creative energy that is G-d.

Admittedly this misinterpretation of the Hebrew words sheol and Gehinnom on the part of gentiles, which seems to be the basis of their superstitious fear of the mythological realm of post-mortem punishment that their misunderstanding of the Tanakh has led them to imagine, appears to be the primary motivation encouraging them to adhere to Christianity in the first place. Heaven as an alternative to the imagined infernal region of eternal punishment promulgated by Christianity seems a dull reward unlikely to entice anyone to abandon hedonistic pursuits in favor of the moral precepts of self-denial, self-sacrifice, and self-discipline espoused as the founding principles of Christian doctrine.

Yet it is this willingness on the part of Christians to accept insufficient compensation in exchange for expended effort, and to delay gratification in exchange for the hope of some potentially greater but unsecured reward at an indefinite point in the future, coupled with the altruistic mandates of putting the best interest of others ahead of ones own best interest, which makes Christianity ideally suited for conditioning the goyim for manipulation and exploitation. A fact that has proven invaluable to us as Jews, in terms of both our financial and our political interests, thereby enabling us to accomplish our agenda in assuming our rightful position in the world as G-d's chosen people.

[MAZOHIR]

Dear Tara2011,

This is a question more than a thousand philosophers and mystics have tackled with since the dawn of man, and it would be rather unlikely that we arrive at a definitive answer on this forum, but nevertheless we can try to answer it the best we can.

Despite the difficulties in finding a definitive answer to the question, I think understanding this hypothetical process of transcendence may not be as complex as commonly held. The individual or particular soul becomes one with the universal, that is by a sort of ascent or apotheosis caused by knowledge of the individual's soul inherent divinity, or identity with the universal. So, union with the Divine, or God, means that the soul has understood (or rather, has come to know) of its own divine nature.

And this would be an answer that encompasses the Gnostic, Hermetic, Magical, Alchemical and kabbalistic realms of thought regarding the attainment of union, at least in respect to the question of "Union with G-d" and what does it mean. Supposedly, this is the Aim of real MAGIA, within the HOGD system, the GREAT WORK of the Initiate.

[RockShan]

Well (as a Gnostic), I haven't met many that believe our ultimate goal is "Unity with God", this is not what Gnosticism focuses on, nor what is desired.. Most, including myself.. believe that Religions that teach "unity with God" are focused on loss of self, or individually.. same as destruction of you, and you're soul. I am focused on individually, and self, without those there is nothing left to fight for or reach to achieve.

Of course this is also what many Gnostic writings teach as well, but that is up for interpretation.

Ultimately I found the "Unification with God", as something to be fought against, and not fought for.. It's in almost every Religion of the past, and of today... "Free will"

(Keep in mind, I don't identify as any form of Gnostic, more-so my own version of it).

[Deathfang]

In C.W. Leadbeater's book "The Devachanic Plane" he describes unity as thus: Instead of a drop of water falling into the ocean it is more like the entire ocean is poured into the single drop of water.

I like this view for 2 reasons.

1. It sounds pretty amazing, as the final goal of a soul should be, whereas the former sounds depressing and unappealing.

2. It makes sense because it doesn't make sense, something as ultimate as unity would defy logic i would think.

[Analytic13]

Union with God is indeed a fusion of the will of God and spirit..The Holy spirit..

Its like you are both wearing the same suit called God.. you can merge and become one with anything in reality..

So any thing that God has felt you can feel to..!

[Greatest I am]

Union with God is completed when one gains access to what Yung and Freud called the Father Complex.

It is basically one opening his inner eye?

Here is how the bible and Jesus expressed it. I have it in a post that shows why a Gnostic Christian will call his God, I am.

Modern Gnostic Christians name our god "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.

The name "I Am" you might see as meaning something like, --- I think I have grown up thanks to having forced my apotheosis through Gnosis and meditation.

In Gnostic Christianity, we follow the Christian tradition that lazy Christians have forgotten that they are to do. That is, become brethren to Jesus.

That is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

Joseph Campbell shows the same esoteric ecumenist idea in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU

The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural and literal reading of myths.

Regards
DL

[Spida]

It means we all return from whence we came.