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Why do you study the occult?

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Why do you study the occult?

Postby blindwake » Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:19 am

What is it that drives you to study?
What is it that you hope to accomplish with occult knowledge?

For me, I wish to learn to manually invoke emotion. My impulse is basically non existent.

I do not understand why a person feels sick when they watch their loved ones die. Why they stand paralyzed at the approach of danger. Why they feel guilty when people disapprove of their actions. Or why they dance when they hear music.

I want to know what it's like. Calculated efficiency is worthless when it is not driven by an irrational will.
If all brains are made roughly the same, then why do I perceive through my own? What special characteristic places me in this skull?
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Re: Why do you study the occult?

Postby cactusjack543 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:13 am

i am a strange one i suppose i more bielieve mother nature controls the six sences i bielieve very strong in the capability in the human mind, i practice every hour these days towards similar to the truman show, where there are 5,000 cameras and everyone is a actor my last time i really harmed someone was in grade 5 pushed a girl said never again whenn i was 6 i asked what life was about i learned the birds and bess fell down broke my forehead and nose is still broken iiii meen no harm nota.. i bielieve not in word games so much but trickets in magic stores real great karma.. -- i figure life is so dark i could never date a women unless she was satanic just has to be.. but just once in my life id like too see a real ritual....
Late legal legit landlord papeers.... Signed mianatlantian4-7-11-13-16-28-43-48-53-78-400-480-666-780-999-(1004.1017.4,000.17,000.40,000.48,000) - 4 univ (from below-shades of grey) buy out everything milk even gravity.... so far 4 univ, 4 galaxies, 4 solor systems, 4 respect galaxy, 4 irobot galaxy, 4 vurtual reality galaxy, 4 (i lack in most) galaxy, 4 black hole galaxy, eeven relating creates awareness mission exceptence too earn keep.... recognised people may have extra for....
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Re: Why do you study the occult?

Postby violetstar » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:22 am

blindwake wrote:What is it that drives you to study?
What is it that you hope to accomplish with occult knowledge?

For me, I wish to learn to manually invoke emotion. My impulse is basically non existent.

I do not understand why a person feels sick when they watch their loved ones die. Why they stand paralyzed at the approach of danger. Why they feel guilty when people disapprove of their actions. Or why they dance when they hear music.

I want to know what it's like. Calculated efficiency is worthless when it is not driven by an irrational will.

Those are the exact type of questions we might expect from a robot that has not yet been programmed with emotions.
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Re: Why do you study the occult?

Postby chowderpope » Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:03 am

I think it's a pretty good question, and insensitive to call them a robot. They may have some kind of disorder, but they are still human.

The thing about this question is it forces you to be open about who you are, a little bit anyway. That kind of question could cause some people to become defensive.

I'll be honest, I'm not completely sure why I practice or study, or what I hope to achieve. I guess I could simplify it by saying I do it for personal development. Long term goal? I guess it would be to bravely step into the mystery of death. I do it for a fuller life and a fuller death.

Plus, it's just a lot of fun. That's probably what keeps me coming back. If it weren't fun, I would move on to something else.
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Re: Why do you study the occult?

Postby violetstar » Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:12 am

chowderpope wrote:I think it's a pretty good question, and insensitive to call them a robot. They may have some kind of disorder, but they are still human.

The thing about this question is it forces you to be open about who you are, a little bit anyway. That kind of question could cause some people to become defensive.

I'll be honest, I'm not completely sure why I practice or study, or what I hope to achieve. I guess I could simplify it by saying I do it for personal development. Long term goal? I guess it would be to bravely step into the mystery of death. I do it for a fuller life and a fuller death.

Plus, it's just a lot of fun. That's probably what keeps me coming back. If it weren't fun, I would move on to something else.

Suggesting they may have some kind of disorder is personal and if you re-read my post I did not call them a robot but that the questions asked would be the type we might expect from a robot.

Please do not misquote me.Thanks.
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Re: Why do you study the occult?

Postby chowderpope » Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:33 am

They suggested themselves that they have a disorder. I simply acknowledged that. I never quoted you, so a misquote wasn't possible.

What you said seemed like you were sort of indirectly calling them a robot. Hmm, must be that I'm getting old! Pardon me!
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Re: Why do you study the occult?

Postby violetstar » Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:41 am

chowderpope wrote:They suggested themselves that they have a disorder. I simply acknowledged that. I never quoted you, so a misquote wasn't possible.

What you said seemed like you were sort of indirectly calling them a robot. Hmm, must be that I'm getting old! Pardon me!

Then who are you referring to when you wrote "and insensitive to call them a robot"?
I could not find any reference to the OP suggesting they have a disorder.
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Re: Why do you study the occult?

Postby chowderpope » Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:50 am

violetstar wrote:Then who are you referring to when you wrote "and insensitive to call them a robot"?


I was referring to you. It was a reference, not a quote.

violetstar wrote:I could not find any reference to the OP suggesting they have a disorder.


The OP said that in circumstances when average people might feel strong emotion, they have a lack of empathy. That's a disorder, by definition.

Like I said, I thought you were comparing the OP to a robot, but it seems to have been a gross misunderstanding. Please accept my apologies.
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Re: Why do you study the occult?

Postby violetstar » Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:52 am

No problems.I really like you.
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Re: Why do you study the occult?

Postby chowderpope » Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:56 am

No worries my friend.
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Re: Why do you study the occult?

Postby Desecrated » Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:12 pm

blindwake wrote:
A. What is it that drives you to study?
B. What is it that you hope to accomplish with occult knowledge?


A. Curiosity and ignorance.
I really really hate when I don't know the answer to a question. That drives me up the wall and straight into the library to try and find some answers. I have a compulsion to fight my own ignorance.

B. I hope to understand it some day. I also hope to understand myself someday. And hopefully, I hope that by that knowledge I can improve on myself.
Just knowing the answers are meaningless unless you apply them. And for me; the occult is 'Applied philosophy'. It's not just a thought experiment, it actually has it's roots in the real world and it is about "effecting change in accordance with will."

For me, I wish to learn to manually invoke emotion. My impulse is basically non existent.

I do not understand why a person feels sick when they watch their loved ones die. Why they stand paralyzed at the approach of danger. Why they feel guilty when people disapprove of their actions. Or why they dance when they hear music.

I want to know what it's like. Calculated efficiency is worthless when it is not driven by an irrational will.


Well first you have to understand why, and then you have to practice it by applying it in thought experiments, meditation, visualization exercises and then try and apply it in real life.
I would recommend reading Dalai Lama - The art of happiness. There is a lot about understanding others, from others point of view, and then visualizing them onto yourself.
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Re: Why do you study the occult?

Postby TruthSeeker_ » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:51 pm

I want to pierce the secrets of the Universe. Know what the ancients knew, and give myself a solid advantage in life. Finding meaning and understanding about my reality, this world and the nexts through occult knowledge.
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Re: Why do you study the occult?

Postby Stukov » Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:02 pm

There are a few different reasons why someone might not "feel" something for the pain or suffering of another.

One, they could be incapable of empathy, placing themselves in another perspective and feel the emotions they would feel.

Two, they may incapable of feeling emotions for themselves, thus even if they consider someone else's point of view, they can't feel their emotion any more than they can feel their own.

Finally, it can also be that you may have the ability to feel emotion and have empathy, but what makes someone else feel bad, doesn't make you feel bad. For example, coworker just died yesterday, I have loads of empathy for people, in the past I was even a strong empath literally feeling what they felt, yet I struggle to "feel" bad when someone dies a generally normal death. In some part if you are an older person and have lived a good life and you die of general natural causes (such as heart attack at 50-60), then I don't feel bad because that is the kind of death that is natural. They had a good life, which should be celebrated. I also get why others miss others who have passed on, but I struggle with this because if I really wanted to, I can talk with the dead.

So in the end its sometimes just a combination of things where even if you placed yourself in someone elses shoes you have an entirely different perspective on events that would illicit a different emotion, or none at all, or you simply have access to other tools that slightly mitigates some of the discomfort.

That's my take on it anyways.
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Re: Why do you study the occult?

Postby Shawn Blackwolf » Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:12 pm

I do not "study" the "occult" ;

I reveal the "hidden" ( occult ) , and live it , as my Tradition...

I myself if I do not know something , will seek the answer from my Tradition's code ,
the Spirit Helpers , and the Otherworld , as well , tap into the akashic record data bank ,
or ask for oral tradition , from an elder in one of the many world traditions...

Books are one of my last sources for information...though I read three sets of encyclopedias ,
and ten books a week , by the time I was ten... [thumbup]

Why do I follow this path ?

Because it is my soul path and my true will...I was born this way...

I can do nothing else , if I am to feel in any way content and complete...

It is interesting , Blindwake...

I am almost a polar opposite to what you describe...

I have always *FELT* , from the time I was an infant onward...

I was and am bombarded with "feeling" , and am what is called an empath...

At one point , I had extreme synesthesia...

I have a very difficult time , or did , blocking out other's feelings...

I am one who can smell a rose , be driven past a row of trees , take in a sunset ,
and go into ecstasy...literally...like a mental orgasm...

I feel the pain of others , and need to respond...

Sick , paralyzed , guilty ?

No , that is not me , or my way...

Now , Dance !

Whether I am hearing human made music , including electronic , or primal drum ,
or listening internally to what I hear from the Faery Realm , as the Music of the
Spheres , or dimensions , it is immediate...

The need to move...to express in the body , through the body , with the body ,
to transform the space I am in with waves of energy I can see and feel , to cut arcs
through the ether , to shape astral form into sculptures of light , which others have
told me they see , when I dance...

I have put a row of candles out by my dance , from across a room...not by the air moving ,
but in an ecstatic moment , when I had raised the kundalini for hours , then directed the
energy...witnesses saw it , and later talked with me regarding it , after I was calm enough to talk...

Here is something that might help free you up...help you to get out of the head , and into the body...

Said with support for you , not in any way , shape , or form , criticism...

Just , from one who lives this reality , daily...( and at 58 , danced for over five hours straight , at
an all night rave , then took an hour break , and was back at it... [thumbup]

You shall not find the answer to getting out of your head , and into the body , as "irrational will"
and impulse , in books , or logic...

You must embrace the body , and the sensory system...IMO...

Here is one , who sadly has passed , who helped many with this...

She is the "Grandmother" of the rave dance , so to say...

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Re: Why do you study the occult?

Postby blindwake » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:06 pm

Stukov,

Yes, I believe that a lot of my difference in feeling is that my worldview is atypical.

I do not miss the dead, because I see them like pictures displayed on a screen. Though I might not have an image viewer open, that does not mean that the image does not exist somewhere on my hard drive. Besides that, I do not believe it is reasonable to mourn for the dead, because that is a selfish action. It is for the self, not the dead. Therefore, it does nothing to mourn, and I do not do it; I simply decide not to do it because it is inefficient.

However, it is my understanding that for a lot of people, they can't just turn their feelings off and on like that. They can't just decide, "I shouldn't have a need to mourn," and so decide to not mourn. It is an impulsive thing that is beyond intelligence. It's like how you can't just decide that a physical blow won't hurt you. It is unavoidable.

For example, I have been in multiple car accidents, roll overs, and I can't remember being scared in the slightest, while the other passengers were all in shock. I thought it was fun because of the speed.

When I think I am depressed, I am not really so, because the depressed do not cure themselves within a few hours. If I am feeling down, I can just think, "this is useless," get up, and be fine. There's a reversal of causation. I do not smile because I am happy, I am happy because I am smiling. The action of smiling literally causes a feedback loop which changes my mood. The mood all by itself, just flat lines. I definitely feel, I just cannot fathom being overwhelmed by the feelings; the impulse is not there.

I'm pretty sure it's physical, not mental. I could probably watch my family get burned alive, and not have the slightest reflex in response to the screaming. That wouldn't mean however, that on a mental level, I would be in favor of such an event. It's beyond good and evil. It's impulse. Wiring.

I get bored easily, and it's terribly difficult to reach my adrenaline threshold. So, instead of doing stuff that might kill me, I can have a lucid dream where I am in combat. Then I can feel without the situation. That's why I like the occult: it skips the causation. It is beautiful to be able to collect experiences, so to say. To be able to be walking, and decide that you want to smell flowers, and simply compel yourself to hallucinate the scent of flowers. It frees you from consumerism. I don't need to buy flowers to smell them. I can just do it.

To me, studying the occult is like fighting some kind of extreme neuropathy. I might feel pleasure, then it just stops. Like I've burned something out.

The occult is like studying medicine. It's an endless effort to not feel hollow. To find meaning. The occult is how I feed. If I did not study this, I would have no reason to be alive.

Shawn Blackwolf,

Your love of dance reminds me of my love of martial arts. It is lightness vs force. Yet, they are both very similar. There is something wonderful about the ability to shape the feeling of air around one's body as they gradually accelerate in speed.
If all brains are made roughly the same, then why do I perceive through my own? What special characteristic places me in this skull?
I do not move throughout the world. The engines do not move the ship, but the universe.
The law of synonyms: my experience is synonymous with my brain, I change my experience to change my brain. so I change the physical with my thoughts.
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Re: Why do you study the occult?

Postby Shawn Blackwolf » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:44 pm

Blindwake said :

"Shawn Blackwolf,

Your love of dance reminds me of my love of martial arts. It is lightness vs force. Yet, they are both very similar. There is something wonderful about the ability to shape the feeling of air around one's body as they gradually accelerate in speed."

Yes , very true , and understood...yet martial arts is more "controlled" , whereas ecstatic dance you let all
logic , and control fall away , until you are "not there"...just the dance is... [thumbup]

I do remember a number of bouncers at clubs , who were martial artists , like one who was a black belt ,
and another who had completed Shaolin Wushu master training , who complimented me for my dancing ,
especially when they saw me sense people passing by , or the club waitress with a tray of drinks , with
my eyes closed , dancing , and made room for them , or performed a swooping bow , in the middle of
the dance... [wink]
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Re: Why do you study the occult?

Postby Rin » Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:38 am

Because I want to continually develop my potential as a human being for as long as I live, because I want to experience as broad a spectrum of reality as possible and because I want to be able to use those capabilities to help other people.

And frankly, a life stripped of the metaphysical aspects of existence is horribly boring :p
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Re: Why do you study the occult?

Postby Desecrated » Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:51 am

blindwake wrote:


I'm pretty sure it's physical, not mental. I could probably watch my family get burned alive, and not have the slightest reflex in response to the screaming. That wouldn't mean however, that on a mental level, I would be in favor of such an event. It's beyond good and evil. It's impulse. Wiring.

I get bored easily, and it's terribly difficult to reach my adrenaline threshold. So, instead of doing stuff that might kill me, I can have a lucid dream where I am in combat. Then I can feel without the situation. That's why I like the occult: it skips the causation. It is beautiful to be able to collect experiences, so to say. To be able to be walking, and decide that you want to smell flowers, and simply compel yourself to hallucinate the scent of flowers. It frees you from consumerism. I don't need to buy flowers to smell them. I can just do it.


What you are describing is textbook psychopath. You have an empathic disorder.
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Re: Why do you study the occult?

Postby blindwake » Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:01 pm

That possibility never actually occurred to me. The stigma around psychopathy makes them all out to be serial killers.
I'd identify opposite to that stigma. I'm never angry, and I don't act on my feelings, thus, I'm not violent in the slightest.
I find that people tend to really like me. Apparently I'm "easy to talk to" because I don't judge, I'm patient, and I don't get emotional. They tell me that I'm somehow "just different", but they can't put their finger on it.
When I mentioned combat, I didn't mean that it was the actual fighting that I enjoyed. It's the physical resistance. The smashing. That the feeling is right in front of me, and impossible to avoid.
For the same reason, I like low pitch instruments over high pitch instruments: because I can physically feel the rumble of low frequencies (when the emotion of higher frequencies isn't moving to me.)

You might be right though. I'll have to do some research. After all, the stigma isn't the disorder.
If all brains are made roughly the same, then why do I perceive through my own? What special characteristic places me in this skull?
I do not move throughout the world. The engines do not move the ship, but the universe.
The law of synonyms: my experience is synonymous with my brain, I change my experience to change my brain. so I change the physical with my thoughts.
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Re: Why do you study the occult?

Postby Desecrated » Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:59 pm

blindwake wrote:That possibility never actually occurred to me. The stigma around psychopathy makes them all out to be serial killers.


Very very few psychopaths actually turns out to be killers. Most of them work in the health industry. Almost all surgeons are sociopaths, and if you're not emotionally challenge when you start working with people dying on a daily basis, you'll pretty much end up emotionally damaged after a few years of doing that.
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Re: Why do you study the occult?

Postby PrimalScorpii292 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:46 am

I want to become master of myself and master of my environment. That`s why. I don`t want to allow things to just "happen" .
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Re: Why do you study the occult?

Postby Spida » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:20 pm

I began studying(practicing) the Occult because I wanted to begin interacting with some of the higher intelligences that I came to believe in via contemplation. A lot of it being Universal in nature. The Workmen, and preservers of the Universe were the initial triggers.
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Re: Why do you study the occult?

Postby inMalkuth » Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:41 pm

I really had no choice in the matter. Many years ago things occurred that started me into a mild interest that turned out to be a sort of self initiation. After honing my own system of contemplation and meditation, I decided that I was ready to assist the world, and was acknowledged. I was placed into the abyss and told what to study, and so it became an obligation to fulfill my oath. After many years, I am finally on track to accomplish something.

Over the years I have met many challenges, mostly because none of this was premeditated. I wasnt given any warning, and I wasnt looking for this, Shawn asked me what my agenda was, and I still say that it is pretty obvious. The real question is what is my motive, and of that I cannot say, because it isnt sustaining me enough to keep me along this path considering what I experience.

I definitely have lost interest in forums like this one, though, and am going to start focusing on my own things again.
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Re: Why do you study the occult?

Postby Cybernetic_Jazz » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:56 am

I started the studying initially because I wanted to sort out the reasons why I'm here, what I should be doing with my spare time, and what activity was productive vs. what wasn't.

Before I got started I was on a drift into full reductive materialism, when that got blown I was also deeply concerned that I'd find myself on an emotional roller-coaster of the worst sort. That was partially true, also partially due to a lot of particularly bad job experiences over the past several years.

I'm almost back where I started now - ie. pretty nihilistic, believing in the efficacy of most magical practices less and less, but I have at least sorted out that what's going on could be best described as a sort of radical functionalism - ie. consciousness is both larger structures and constituents. I think conscious 'I' experiences tend to be the amalgamation of smaller organisms, ie. dynamic systems can either partially enslave a smaller system (such as being a member of a societal egregore - magical or mundane, such as city, nation state, etc. in the later case) or just about fully enslave it in the case of our cells belonging to our bodies, and in the latter case the tightness of the binding is what brings identities as vivid as our own together. Add to that I think neurons are about the most highly-leveraged carriers of conscious energy that we know of in nature. I think of WIlliam Mistele talking to Bardon's elemental kings and queens and realizing that while many of them might seem to have the energetic and conscious equivalent of a couple dozen people or more their usual concentration of awareness is over millions of square miles which, density-wise, is abysmally poor and from that degree of concentration gap, say 10^15 orders of magnitude if not greater, I can understand why most scientific professionals would think that neurons create consciousness and that all the rest is just a lot of hocus pocus or wishful thinking.

I'm still going forward with this stuff because I really don't know what else to do. I don't necessarily have much hope that it can radically transform my life for the better (not that its fully ineffectual, by and large I just think the world is messed up enough that really great options hardly exist). At worst, like religion, it could keep me out of trouble or at least processing the darker regions of my own observations on life from a safer distance and from a place where I won't get hit with the bitter pills hard enough to veer off into self-destructive behavior. The other part - if it has any positive effect whatsoever on how things go after we die, if 'we' do in fact exist afterward, to know about this stuff and not do it seems incredibly foolish. What sucks is that I think at least several things like astrology, divination, and gematria (at least beyond a very superficial layer) is most likely superstition or over-broadening criteria for falsifying claims into Barnum statements and almost everyone who speaks authoritatively on magic seems to buy into that. Maybe that's just me being sophomoric but it seems like we have hierarchical systems, we have to find a place in them and find ways to gain stronger integration of our own conscious being, and I can't think of much else that can be done. I don't really look forward to great experiences because I think, in that case, it's people who've done this probably for quite a few more lifetimes than I have and, as MP Hall put it, some people are able to pierce the veil, the overwhelming multitudes who even try this stuff will at best have just a few mystical experiences - just as likely none. That and my time in orders suggests, just by watching people, that 30 or 40 years of study really only makes so much of a difference in people's capacities - for every La Bron and Michael Jordan you have millions of people who shouldn't quit their day job.

I do hope that I'll get more positive energy and thought shot back into my practices but for now at least this is just my religious practice of choice.
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Re: Why do you study the occult?

Postby inMalkuth » Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:18 am

Your post makes me almost sad. Ive had my share of despondency, but not from the angle that you possess. Lately Ive been pretty deflated, not because of the "all is relative" attitude that Ive been dealing with, which isnt in itself a bad thing to be aware of; but the unwillingness to commit to an ideal that comes along with that knowledge.

While I understand the plight of most reactionary people, I have to say that they probably dont know they are in a bind until they actually find themselves in one. For instance; and addict is usually pretty content with his addiction until his health or home is in jeopardy. Essentially, in order to find any fulfillment in existence, we must settle upon a perception and follow it through, regardless of whether it is a strong point of view or not. I know a lot of people that give up examining life and sit and play video games, and on the whole, they are quite happy.

Personally I would rather do something with my days than play games, but the lesson of these people is that it isnt absolutely necessary to be on top of the realm of perception in order to find peace and happiness. When I talk to someone for whom the highest form of perception is the awareness that all is relative, and that whatever attitude suits their moment is fine, I cringe away. It just doesnt seem productive, or authentic. I cant disagree in the truth of that view, but I would rather be around someone with a point of view that I can follow and walk along with, than one that has no real focus.

The Magus is supposed to simply do. And in this, I can see a virtue of the all is relative attitude. Doing FOR something, and not just to do something, is the key difference, in my opinion. Just to DO, without aim, seems less than ideal.

Anyway... at some point we have to settle, or at least, I need to. One thing that I see common in those that dont are words that define an unhappy life.
inMalkuth
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