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Sex Change Spell?

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Sex Change Spell?

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:04 pm

Original post: Tanya1

I'm new to magick spells.

I have a question is it possible to occult a spell to change your gender?

If so and if it is difficult, are they any REAL AND REPUTABLE witches that can do it?

Thanks
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Sex Change Spell?

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:08 pm

Original post: hitman777

I know of a spell to change a man into a woman. It involves the athame and a bucket. Or, scissors and a bucket.
I don't know any spells to change a woman into a man, though.
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Sex Change Spell?

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:17 pm

Original post: Helmut II

[COLOR="Red"]This has been discussed before, so I think you should do a search on it, since your thread's probably gonna get closed for spell-begging.
[/COLOR]
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Sex Change Spell?

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:18 pm

Original post: Frater Alysyrose

Somehow, I don't think that would quite do it, Hitman. ;)

To put it simply, there is no definate spell to change gender.
There are, though, various ways to experience being the opposite sex, although you would return to base-line afterwards. These techniques involve the use of drugs and visualizations, as well as lucidity within dreams & astral projection. Prolonged stay within those methods would no doubt cause psychosis if you simply cannot shake the idea from your mind. Keep in mind there are always sex-change operations, and hormonal therapy.

As Helmut II said, this has been discussed before in great depth.
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Sex Change Spell?

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:16 pm

Original post: Venefica

I am failing to understand why it is discussed so many times, what is this fascination for using magick to change your sex? I believe there are no limits to magick. But I am quite sure it would require a hell of a more effort to learn magick to physically turn you into another sex than to go to the hospital and have the doctors do it.
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Sex Change Spell?

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:55 pm

Original post: Draginvry

[QUOTE=Tanya1;281555]
I have a question is it possible to occult a spell to change your gender?[/QUOTE]

Possibly. I have some theories I've been working on for a long time.

The problem is that such a spell is incredibly difficult. To say that the organism must have above average health is an understatement. Such a spell also requires extraordinary amounts of energy and knowledge. I have no doubt that I could sustain a spell for the required duration of physical change, if I were to study all of the factors involved. However, there are dozens of critical variables for such a spell. If the magician fails in even one, such a spell is certain to fail.

From my experience, this is not a spell that can be used by anyone with less than a devout intention. The determination necessary to work out the kinks in such a spell may take years to learn. And the amount of concentration necessary to affect consistent change of the biological organism goes way beyond normal functioning or meditation.

Make no mistake. If you ever find anyone who has ever successfully resolved such a spell, they are a powerfull entity indeed. I'm not entirely certain that the mechanics of such a spell could even be explained to the average magician. It seems to require an innate knowledge of your own body, something which nobody else can give you. It takes a concerted effort of diet, lifestyle, perception, intuition, and concentration to even begin to have an effect for such a spell. A complete "gender change" as you put it, would require significant resources by the individual in question.

The more I study this, the more complicated it becomes. Give me another six years, and maybe I'll have some real information on this type of spell.

There are a few people working on such techniques. But I find them questionable, as most of those people are taking external hormones. Thus, it is impossible to determine the effects of their magick versus the effect of biological intervention.
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Sex Change Spell?

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:27 pm

Original post: AHiddenSaint

[QUOTE=Venefica;281575]I am failing to understand why it is discussed so many times, what is this fascination for using magick to change your sex? I believe there are no limits to magick. But I am quite sure it would require a hell of a more effort to learn magick to physically turn you into another sex than to go to the hospital and have the doctors do it.[/QUOTE]

Because some people who are TG may never have the money needed to change their Gender. There are a lot of people in this world who aren't in the right body. I've seen the pain of people who aren't. I'm also TG myself and have looked for ways, but never found it. One reason I decided not to have the surgery is because I couldn't give birth if did. Personally though I rather start life myself from the start and have a whole childhood to go through in order to help me with it.

BTW, TG isn't just the body being wrong, but it can be a soul level. I know many may not understand or want to understand. I've never seen a spell to change a person, but I have accepted both sides of myself. I've found friends who understand. I know with myself I keep my TG more to my private because wouldn't have the confidence to be public. I also plan to go back to college one day when I can afford it to get the degree for therapist on this part. I want to do the full amount of time to be able to approve people for surgery.

This is one reason though I got over a savior complex is because no matter what I might have been capable of on the dream level or mind level I could never physically help in the way this person is talking about my friends that I care about deeply. The only way I can help is by having a goal and just being there to listen and care for. Hope that helps in understanding of why people might want a spell like this. It's just a dream to wake up one day without surgery and feel the true self that you are in the right body that you should have been.
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Sex Change Spell?

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:42 pm

Original post: Frater Alysyrose

As Draginvry said, there are several people here and elsewhere working on this in experimental stages. I myself am one, and although I have taken external hormones, (currently off because of complications, and I felt I found out what I needed to know), I don't believe it is nessecarily impossible against all odds in a traditionally magickal sense. I just have little faith in the extent to which it is. Needless to say the person wouldn't have a normal mind, and it would take years of faith and practice, IMO.

I've accomplished some fairly strange things, and it's true that anyone actually able to do what you describe as a complete physical transformation is a rare beast indeed. Such people ought to be feared, though I've never seen anything that points to such a feat, in the past or present.

What my experiments have lead me to is a realization that a combination of the sexes is more desirable than being just one, becoming the Androgyne, or Hermes + Aphrodite. And it drastically boosts some deep-rooted creativity which may be used for just about anything.

Well, to each their own.
Good luck, you'll need it.
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Sex Change Spell?

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:34 pm

Original post: Draginvry

[QUOTE=Frater Alysyrose;281600]I don't believe it is nessecarily impossible against all odds in a traditionally magickal sense. I just have little faith in the extent to which it is. Needless to say the person wouldn't have a normal mind, and it would take years of faith and practice, IMO.[/QUOTE]

It's definitely possible. I'm certain of that. In fact, many people have made minor physical changes using magickal techniques. Minor being the key word.

However, I'm not entirely convinced that a complete gender change can be accomplished by more traditional techniques. It seems that entire organism needs to be reworked from the ground up, and not just gender. I'm not even entirely certain that such a person could still be considered human. I'm actually in the process of testing such a technique, as I've decided that normal diet and lifestyle are simply insufficient for this type of physical change. I have no idea how long this will actually take. I'm "winging it" as it were, since I can't seem to find good information on such a process, even in communities dealing with such subject matter. Even with six years of solid biological and metaphysical scrutiny, I still have many more questions than answers.

I think the reason there aren't any confirmed cases of this type of spell is precisely for this reason. The desire to change gender is common enough. But in order to do so magickally, one has to be willing to make drastic changes to one's lifestyle. So drastic, in fact, that one must contemplate entirely outside of social thinking. That's why it's taken me six years, with very little in the way of practical results. It takes an extreme amount of mental focus and clarity which isn't easy to come by, even for someone who meditates constantly.
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Sex Change Spell?

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:44 am

Original post: Frater Alysyrose

I think your getting at the right variables here, Draginvry, though you out the details of their seriousness.

An operation like this would have to be done not only outside of society, but out of any human connection. If you would thus change to the extent you speak of, it would not only change your reality, but the reality of everyone you know. A cosmic stutter. Or else, you would have to deal with the covering up of the real "death" of a person, in response to your loved ones.

People who know you as a male would consecutively have their entire pasts re-done to fit the drastic change you had imposed upon the universe. And, it probably wouldn't comply if you had external people in your life at the moment.

So...
-Complete isolation
-A complete and thorough occult understanding of your body
-Massive energy work, the likes of which haven't been seen since Moses.
-Possible forsaking of humanity.

Is it even worth it? If people are after "being" the opposite sex, it would warm their hearts to know that scientists have just begun to actually "grow" vaginas and penises. This means a sex-change could be potentially absolute, instead of the usual mutilation of the male penis, which, in my eyes is no sex-change, just a very horrible surgery. I don't think the human skeleton could ever be edited, though.

Why not use said massive amounts of energy to strike it rich, first? Win the lottery, become a rock-star. It should be much more easily done than what it would take to change sex by magickal means.
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Sex Change Spell?

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:09 am

Original post: Draginvry

[QUOTE=Frater Alysyrose;281650]
Why not use said massive amounts of energy to strike it rich, first? Win the lottery, become a rock-star. It should be much more easily done than what it would take to change sex by magickal means.[/QUOTE]

Because to me, it's not just a means to an end. In fact, the means is entirely the point. I feel drawn to study this aspect of reality. I want to understand what gender really is. I mean, what it truly is, not what people think it is, or how it should be. It could be said that most of my knowledge is about this aspect of existence, and that all of my knowledge has been gained in some form or fashion in the pursuit of it.

-Possible forsaking of humanity.


Which is why I haven't been willing to make the conscious changes necessary to complete my research. If I were, I could almost gaurantee that I would no longer desire to live among people. Not that it would necessarily be a bad thing. There's nothing wrong with the life of a hermit, even a gender ambiguous one. It's just that I have trouble bringing myself to that type of mentality, even though all of my evidence leads to that as the eventual conclusion.

But even now I'm not interested in the things most people are interested in. Money? Please. Socialization? Only as a curiosity. I feel completely out of place, even without having changed my gender.

Perhaps you're right. Maybe I should be meditating on some mountaintop. But until I actually make that decision, I will never know. All I can do now is work with the data that I do have, and refine my theory slowly. I don't want to make any big leaps of faith. I already did that once, and I wasn't willing to accept the consequences.

Besides, time is on my side. I don't have anything to lose, because I don't value anything that can be taken away. I care only about knowledge. It's precisely this one-sided determination that has kept me going for so long. I will master every aspect of the physical body, or die trying. I have no doubt of that.
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Sex Change Spell?

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:21 am

Original post: Frater Alysyrose

Dragin, have you ever even tried other, more tactile ways?

Taking estrogen causes a real change in the personality. Almost a full-on confrontal of the female self. It seems your methods are different from mine, though no less relevant, and from what I gather you have made strides in macrocosm kind of way. My results have been largely based on monads of experience, in which to say, I have been the opposite sex for short periods of time, which, only serve as a relief mechanism, really, or (used too)... before the much-needed "merging".

I know that this can cause the most serious questionings of self, so I'd like to offer any help I can, as well as wish you the best of luck.
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Sex Change Spell?

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:16 am

Original post: Draginvry

[QUOTE=Frater Alysyrose;281658]Almost a full-on confrontal of the female self. It seems your methods are different from mine[/QUOTE]

My methods have evolved from years of study. I am aware of how perception can be used to alter the body.

When I first started this project, I discovered a type of physical meditation which created effects which I am unable to explain in words. It started out being about male or female, but it quickly became much more than that. I tapped into the very nature of the physical body. That's why I'm so obsessed with it. I experienced something profound that few people will ever know in their lifetimes.

Since then, I have come to realize how far-reaching the application for this type of technique truly is. I began experimenting with fasting, physical endurance, and other types of ways to test the physical body.

I suppose I was a lot like you when I first started this. But my mindset has changed much since then. I cannot be content solely with changing physical appearance. Not after what I experienced. I know that there is an extraordinary way of existing in this world. I simply have to find a way to maintain it.

If you experiment with the body long enough, and you dig deep enough, you will realize as I did that there are ways of being in this world that most people can't even comprehend. Changing gender is just a step. I plan to run up the entire staircase. But it is very dangerous. I have developed an elaborate way of studying the various phenomena involved, because I don't want my knowledge failing me when I make a full run of it. This is a monumental undertaking.
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Sex Change Spell?

Postby Occult Forum Archive » Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:22 am

Original post: Anathema_Oracle

This topic has strangely been covered in another thread, so therefore, tis locked as a duplicate, for the interest of the parties involved, here is the link to said thread:

http://occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=5554&highlight=gender+change

It also verges on spell begging, but there you have it.
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