Computer magick?

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Original post: rvconsult

I've posted in another thread about working with some able people who understand the simple core aspectes of chaos magick most notably sigils & servitors.

My plan is to develop a free program (with you chaos gurus help) where users can create sigils & even fire them off using the program... a similar thing can be done for servitors.

Anyone interested in this project can email me at:

software@mysticalwonders.org

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Original post: katz54

computers are still useing the same basic technology they started with, The numbers just get bigger. same silicon chip technology, same basic frame style. The screws from an Xt model will fit my Vaio. I've built more computers than I can remember starting with the 486's. I remember how proud I was of my 486 DX4-100 I built. anyway until there are some advances in technology we're just useing souped up model t's. Even the super computers are useing a hundred or so smaller computers linked up. I'm running a Vaio now with 512 mb ram, a 3.7 gig processor,and a 160 gig HD, DVD R/W, and more programs/applications then I'll ever use. A DSL modem and a 19in screen, and it still doesn't have much of a personality. It's damn fast though, I downloaded a 650 Mb office program in about 5min. internet pages load like turning pages in a book. I figure I won't have to upgrade for maybe 3 years. by then it'll be obsolete

I'm waiting for an 'organic' processor and total voice control, Everything contained in a type of abbreviated helmet with a visor. How about a 'chair' that has a VR hologram projective 'screen' the size of a bed sheet that appears out of thin air right in front of you. I saw one like this theorized in a popular science magazine.

I'm not so sure that the computers have a ghost before we get them. I think it's more like we project our selves onto the machine and then recognise certain patterns. I play alot of solitare at times and I swear it learns my moves and what it takes to win. You'd think I'd get better with time but thats not happening.

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Original post: lavisbre

I wonder if we analyze the sound frequencies in a ritual chant and got the pattern and had the PC repeat this at an area outside the PC or into the net say an ip address would we be able to open a dimension? Or start a ripple? It would be good to record all and transform it to a pattern and feed that in to an area â?¦ just a thought

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Original post: x-sol

Solitare is based on a random number generator. It shuffles by getting a random number 0-51 then places that number into a deck object as a card. Every time it generates it checks to see if that card is in the new deck that is being built as it shuffles.

It either uses that methos or two random number 0-12(card) and 0-3(suit)

It has slots for every place it deals a card. When it deals slot[row, stack] it takes the new deck it randomizes(shuffled) and gets a new random number using one of the above methods. Next it checks to see if that card is still in the deck, if it is that card goes to the slot, or it trys a new number.

The thing is that the seed that is used for the random number appears to be a constant value. meaning the random number are not so random. Meaning patters will emerge.

The part of it that I always wonder about is does it fill the slot when the cards are delt or when the card is flipped. If you think about this and play you'll notice that the card you flip on the board and the cards you flip in the stack almost always relate. There is an exact pattern but I don't have my notes.

This is playing Draw One. Draw three the pattern is there but it is usless.
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If you want to use a computer to create sound magic get a BrainWave gen. they have 100's of sounds the effect the human mind and (possibly)thus reality.......
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I don't think computers have spirits so to speak. I think they may absorb some vibes from us, but it inert and lifless. It hasn't been taught to think yet. I have a few smart video games but that's about it.....
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BTW, I'm a programmer(about 14 languages), a tech(Mac and PC), and I used to be fairly pagan. Been doing these thing for going on 12 years.... I have seen some weird stuff but nothing that wasn't caused by the user......

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Original post: ReallyBigNerd

I doubt electricity was used by many magicians. Although I can think of shamen who called lightening bolts. I do not think lightening qualifies as magick. What is magick today is typically what canot really be observed, atleast easily.

I also do not think a program in itself is anything special. If you were to watch an open processor, where a beam of light is generated each time a transistor changes, the worlds most advanced AI and Super Mario would look similar. To a CPU, it is all arbitrary. A program will only exist as a single entity in some other crazy plane if you want it to. In fact, a program cannot neccesarily be distingueshed from another from the perspective of the cpu. Depending on the OS, it may know what thread it is in , but that means nothing to it and it still doesnt know about the program the thread is part of.

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Original post: jack hectic

i wonder if those lines of "magic code" below peoples signatures could be used in computer magic... also, check out this thread for some ideas and brainstorming... someone is going to astrally project himself into a computer game, and i am working on projecting my conciousness into an electron so i can surf the net... literally...
http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=20031

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Original post: x-sol

btw; I don't know if I mentioned this, but high energy out puts often related to being crazy(skitzo especial) really mess computers up. Anything from making the mouse work backwards to having things print.

An interesting story: After I had just had extreme surgery and a related mental break and was having all kinds of weirdness my friends Mom had me committed (##^%$@& her). Anyway I really was having like the verge of a entrance into shaman hood. I hadn't eaten in 3 months and had been on morphen for 2. I was very much in an altered state and quite crazy. I sitting in the admittance office being commited and they asked what my symptoms were and what I was experianceing. I said things like this and basicly directed all my pent up crazy energy I had been meditating on calming out. Every machine and printer and fax and so on started to beep and freak and print out jibber jabber.

The nurses were total freaked. The woman who brought me was like see. I was like yeah see I'm completely nuts; I mean I thought I did that....

but, I don't think I'll be projecting into an electron anytime soon; my chi won't fit lol

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Original post: jack hectic

maybe projecting into an electircal signal, or a program

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Original post: BlackRavenSpike

I don't consider the enternet nore my computer a godform or even an entity... YET once computers can think freely without just being told to do then they will have souls. "Ghost in the shell" anyone?

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Original post: x-sol

ok, ok, ok

If the eltronic signals that our brains register as thought could be considered a soul and there was a way to map every chemical in the brain and know the exact relation of each to emotion and though and our brains weren't 500% bigger than a 100gb hard drive and .....

maybe just maybe the ghost in the shell bit is worth thinking about but really any form of computer ai is a simple pattern matching engine or a couse and effect engine

if this happens do this; while those happens do this and this; increase the likely hood of this by this % and randomly take action based on likelyhood and a random number

making any kind of intelagince in a machine is not going to happen in our lifetime

the reactions of a machine can be predicted based on the greater pattern matching abilities of our own brains

ask any gamer

if i stand here the monsters don't attack but if i move 1 step left they will

all current ai can be forced to think/do what the human wants if the human knows the correct sequance of events that will trigger the desired action

this is the interesting part though; the same can be said of any person who is not insane. a person who knows test subject a can within 70-90 percent of the time get subject a to react in the way the malicious person wishes simply by taking certian actions

my momma always said stupid is as stupid does..... or life is like a box of microchips or um don't make me go medevil on your buttix

anyway the point is "Cause and Effect" everything is cause and effect; action and reaction; oh yeah and loops don't forget loops; life is like an endless loop, you never know when your system will overload...

btw, what is rainbow magick??? is there a pot of gold involved in anyway??? I really need some gold....

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Original post: BlackRavenSpike

[QUOTE=x-sol]
making any kind of intelagince in a machine is not going to happen in our lifetime


btw, what is rainbow magick??? is there a pot of gold involved in anyway??? I really need some gold....[/QUOTE]50 years ao people said that about computers period and look how far we've advanced. Do you realize how long a lifetime is?
Anywho rainbow magick is a mock to those people who clasify magick as black ro white.

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Original post: x-sol

50 years ago they were using vac computers, punch cards and the computers filled rooms or even entire building; we shrunk them down and made them faster. Get this; that's all nothing else has changed; nothing. The computer is just an empty box until a human teaches it how to do a task, and even at the highest level of autimation possible today a human still has to operate the computer and so on...

Do you realize that I'm a computer programmer and I know exactly what it takes to make a computer do anything? And I'm telling you the level of proccesiing speed and pattern matching it would take is not reacable in our life time even at the rate we are going.

Think about it; how many diffrent things affect what you do at any given second? Can you even comprehend how the amount of moisture in the air could cause to to behave difrently than you would if it was a higher or lower amount? We don't have sufficiant understanding of our own thought procces or senses to be able to reproduce them. Now add the fact that you a woman; PMS any one...?

Just for a moment think about the psycoligal aspects of the mind that we do not grasp or that we think we grasp.

Even if we could digest, understand and reproduce our own basic thought process/skimatic/chain/cause and effect

do you have any grasp of the amount of data that would need to be processed for every action the AI took?

This may sound unimaginative to you, but magick is black and white; everything in life is black and white. There is wrong and there is acceptable. Nothing is defacto right mind you, but there is black and white. The fact that our society is letting itself slip into the gray and constantly makes excuses for itself and the large amount of wrong going on is part of a cycle of balance.

I have to say that all this CHAOS, RAINBOW, GRAY, GREEN , BLUE is tiresome. I can understand if your under the age of 22-25 but there is a point when certian facts of life should become aparent. Namely our society doesn't have a clear concept or right and wrong or black and white; it is up to the individual to uphold these concepts themselves often at the cost of something to that individual. If you don't see that there is something to uphold or any diffrence you are clearly in the black. Even if your "healing" without consent you are in the black because in the end it is what the individual being "healed" wants that matters not your need to flex your magical muscle.

I'm going to go ahead and state that I don't buy into any kind of "magick" anymore it's quite frankly just another hokey relegion that provides shelter for one group of people or another. That's what relegions do. They give a certian group of people an excuse to congrigate, communicate and something to belive in. People need that; yay! It's not for me; I think it's hog wash; I've noticed more and more the older I've gotten that the level of open mindedness far excedes the level of proof and investigation.

I prefer to meditate and to use my reiki on those who ask me to.

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"You used to be bitter and cynical, too. You were far more interesting."
"Don't be so open minded; something could fall out!"

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Original post: BlackRavenSpike

lol nothing is true all is accepted. an besides much has changed in the way we pprogram computers... after all what is a child untill you teach it?

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Original post: x-sol

omg - exactly what do think has changed in the way we program computers? The only thing has changed in programming is the introduction of OOP and that by no means is a new thing. Conditional statements are still conditional statements. They are hard coded. That is what I was getting at with the amount of data needed. the AI would have to be conditional create conditional code and compile based on data stores to meet the current circumstances. Then it would have a sense of life or thought.

I'm not going to argue for the sake of argument, and I admire your determination that anything is possible because it is; but if started right now and I worked for the rest of my life I seriously doubt I could make anything that could approach the ability to learn that an infant has.

It's not like Commander Data and his positronic brain can just happen from rubbing two sticks togethor.

I'm not saying robots are not realistic; they will be around soon enough but they won't be alive. they will perform preprogrammed action; over and over and over and over and over

why would we want the thing to think anyway??? or why would we want to put our minds in the internet??? walking talking think machince that can rewrite thier own programming would be a bad thing.. and to be alive they would have to be able to rewrite the code that operates them. I guess that's really what I am going on about it's a bad idea a very bad idea

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Original post: nekoryuu

...and to be alive they would have to be able to rewrite the code that operates them.

self-modifying code, huh? that's been around since at least the '70s. Not at any level of sophistication, of course - viruses - but still.

I agree with you, though. There is no way, given even double the rate of Moore's Law, that true AI will happen anytime soon. The hardware's just not up to the task, and the current models of processing - Turing-derived - lack any mechanisms that may conceivably evolve into some form of sentience - short-term or long-term.

Now servitors, on the other hand...

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Original post: Satans_Serrated_Edge

all current ai can be forced to think/do what the human wants if the human knows the correct sequance of events that will trigger the desired action

Tell that to the chess champions that got owned by big blue. We are not so far ahead of the machine as you seem to think...

besides, what you said is also true of people. People can be predicted by smarter people in just such a manner.

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Original post: LazarusIsrafel

[QUOTE=mephistopheles2u]Call me crazy, but one time my computer wasn't working and the techs couldn't figure it out and my normal pleas to Ganeesh for healing did not work. So I created a ritual where I sacrificed some old computers, harvesting their life force, and feeding it into the one needing fixing. It worked! And it sure was fun taking a sledge hammer to those things that have caused me so much grief.

Now, I wouldn't do this with animals or plants (perhaps with people). So, who wants to comments on the ethics of this![/QUOTE]
that made me laugh

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Original post: x-sol

chess, is a bit diffrent than most computer games because there are thousands and thousands of prebuilt staratgies that already exist and the borard is a limited space.

Not only that but the game is based on mathmatics. Anyway, with chess the computer can actually force us to do things because it has a list of moves that will most likely cauyse the player to make x move or y move so it can predict our moves as much as we can predict it's.

I'm not at all familiar with big blue but I'm aslo going to assume it can switch between styles mid game. For instance it can switch from Stonewall to some other deffense.

at any rate the fact that a chess game can be broken down into a number sequance 1,1; 4,5; 8,8 and so on allows the computer to have a enormus amount of info on chess in a little space where as other things are much more complex.

I personally get owned by my chess game quite often but can beat it using the principles I've talked about. I have to stop trying to out play it and start to manipulate how it plays based on the way I play. Which if you think about it is the highest form of war! Forcing your opponet to act in the way you wish because of an action you've taken.

I've also played about 5000 games with the thing and can see the pattern. -> Pattern Matching -> Cause and Effect.

Also Virus don't rewrite themselves. Viruses rewrite the byte code of other programs or perform a specific task, and reproduce themselves. Take the chk virus or chk95; it was a damn demon little thing that's only purpose was to add it's self to everything on a pc... it was at it, but that's all it did that anyone is aware of filty little bugger; now malisa was a bit of a bitch cause all she did was spread herself via e-mail; mostly viruses are not something that is going to do much more than slow down your pc or steal your cc# but there is the occasional that is smart and records keystrokes and web addresses to send bank info or the like.

What you really need to watch out for are trojans not viruses....

Now code rewriting has been around and has reached a level of awsomeness just recently in .net. In ,net I can write code via code compile said code and load and run it all via code.... but it uses up memory unles i specifical delete said code when it's done being used thus the problem with an AI creating code conditionallly to take new dynamic actions; the Ai would want to keep that code but eventually it would have no memory left

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Original post: x-sol

p.s. I said people can be predictad by people too; I quite enjoy doing it ~_^

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Original post: x-sol

one more thing... I thought maybe this might help some people see the major dif.

open a picture off your pc; pretty, ugly, scarry??? that is not what the computer sees the the computer sees a bumnch of

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Original post: ViridianMoth

I love the smileys. Does the computer see those too? :p

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Original post: x-sol

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Original post: x-sol

o

the are smilleys in the chunk of image data because this board interprets certian text as a mark for a smilley

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Original post: Satans_Serrated_Edge

xsol,
everything you stated as differences between us and the machine are actually similarities. Pattern matching within a limited space/framework? That's what our brain does, just on a greater scale.

We are essentially big gushy machines. I really see very little difference aside from the level of complexity.

However, they are becoming exponentially more complex with each passing year, while we remain at a fairly constant level. What do you think the logical outcome is?

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Original post: nekoryuu

Also Virus don't rewrite themselves. Viruses rewrite the byte code of other programs or perform a specific task, and reproduce themselves.

I meant that that's about how sophisticated the code was (biological virus), not what the code was. And it's a lot more efficient in assembly than it is in .NET. Or LISP and its variants, for that matter.

What you really need to watch out for are trojans not viruses....

Personally, I think worms are a bigger threat. Unless you use some obscure OS, and even then...