i think i found a black hole...

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: sleepyfrog

has anybody ever heared about an astral body being trapped into a black hole? i had this dream where i projected and went into the sky and got sucked into this vortex, it really freaked me out. now whenever i meditate it feels like im spinning round and round and round and i have this sensation that somthing is really wrong. during the day i can see this cord from my stomach shooting up into the sky like im flying some astral kite...?!?

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Original post: micdeath

welcome to the doomed souls commity >:) lol j/k. anyway, many poeple have experianced this, I for one am able to jump in and out (the getting in is easy, but getting out is like hell on earth) out of this vortex, but it appears as many people who are aware of psycic phnomanom (spell? i spelt it how it sounds). it shows up more to those who are new to this reality, btw are yu have recently start this stuff (like 1-2 years tops)?

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Original post: sleepyfrog

yer, i only just started atral projecting about 10 months to a year ago. any tips on how to get out of this thing?

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Original post: Amen Esur

Use the force, Luke

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Original post: Sub Rosa

you can't escape the singularity
the vortex exists

the spinning sensation will stop if you study the art of Gesture & Glance

or you practice anchoring north south east west

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Original post: Radiant Star

I have experienced the vortex as I was dropping off to sleep, but the negative feeling around it jolted me and my body left the bed by some amount, which probably felt like a lot more than it really was.

I seem to remember wandering around and looking into what I thought was a wicker linen bin or something round and there was a sudden strong pulling sensation but that was when I 'leapt' and came to full consciousness.

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Original post: Ceriel Nosforit

Apparently this is a common phenomena amongst projectors.
Still no one knows what it is.

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Original post: sleepyfrog

wierd no...

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Original post: MadHatR137

Just remember.....blackholes do in fact discharge energy on occasion....

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Original post: micdeath

[QUOTE=MadHatR137]Just remember.....blackholes do in fact discharge energy on occasion....[/QUOTE]

tes, thats true....kinda makes you think doesn't it? our "scientist" say NOTHING cang o faster then the speed of light ( I do when i project and venture into the cosmos, which btw, takes a hella long time, damn...who knew space could be so...BIG!) and yet, they have been evedence of jets of energy (visible too) comming out of teh black whole when it feeds.....the "scientist" way of explaining just doesn't add up ya know?



**Btw, even if i posted how i can jump in and out of the "vortex", you wouldn't be able to do it for a LOOOOOOOOONG ass time......well, at least untill you can manipulate VERY large quantitiys of energy

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Original post: MadHatR137

...the "scientist" way of explaining just doesn't add up ya know?

Actually...no, I don't know...I think that science explains just about everything, and that which we cannot understand is merely something that we haven't discovered or attained an intellectual ability to understand yet......I even believe in the "Science of Magic" or whatever you'd want to call it, but that has been lost to the majority's knowledge base... I certainly know that I may have the ability to understand the theories behind a lot of the "occult" and may be able to retain volumes of knowledge and draw inferences and create theories...but when it comes to the actual practice...things don't seem to work.. Maybe its my need for quantifiable results....:lol:

**Btw, even if i posted how i can jump in and out of the "vortex", you wouldn't be able to do it for a LOOOOOOOOONG ass time......well, at least untill you can manipulate VERY large quantitiys of energy

Modifying Zen Buddhist Koan
"Not blackhole, not body, mind moves."

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Original post: Sub Rosa

i know what it is

it's nothing man

i think you're half-celestial
lol
that's why you're spinning

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Original post: micdeath

sry i must make an ass-joke out of this quote, "i think you're half-celestial
lol
that's why you're spinning" I alwasy thought the reason i saw a guy was spinning was becuase he want to get light headed.... *weeeee..w.eeeeeeaheeeeaheeeeee...look at me i am spinning weeeeeeeeaheeeeeeeeeeeeeaheeheee* LOL sry, i just HAD to say somthing about it No ill inteded of course

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Original post: stjack

No Science doesn't explain everything, like magick it is a tool that we use to explore and understand our environment as well as work with it. However, you should keep up with current scientific discussion and understanding before you jump to conclusions about scientists saying that nothing can move faster than the speed of light.

There are many varying theories out there at the moment, especially with Quantum Physics and the String or Super String theories. The scientific community works extremely hard to answer questions, only to be confronted with more questions and more opposition by some various religious groups. I am not attempting to insult anyone here, just making an observation.

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Original post: MadHatR137

...The scientific community works extremely hard to answer questions, only to be confronted with more questions...

Kinda Zen, isn't it? Isn't that the process of gaining knowledge, becoming unlightened? Seeking answers to questions that leads one to new questions...and new answers to new questions...I meant that "science explains just about everything" not in the "here and now" sense, but in the more broader expanse of time and in that which is defined as science...All the answers are right in front of us, we just don't see them yet.

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Original post: Iamu

To the original poster:

Here's one way of doing it that I find relatively easy.

Become as aware of the hole again as possible. Fully project out into it, and feel yourself being compressed into the dimensionless point of the singularity at the center.

Stop. There is only void.

Figure out where you want to be on the astral.

Declare "I am", or something along those lines, and blast yourself outwards from the singularity. You'll be there.


To the other posters:

thats true....kinda makes you think doesn't it? our "scientist" say NOTHING cang o faster then the speed of light ( I do when i project and venture into the cosmos, which btw, takes a hella long time, damn...who knew space could be so...BIG!) and yet, they have been evedence of jets of energy (visible too) comming out of teh black whole when it feeds.....the "scientist" way of explaining just doesn't add up ya know?

The discharge isn't moving faster than the speed of light; one of the popular theories at the moment, is that they're "Hawking" particles. Basically, it seems that pairings of positively and negatively charged particles are constantly popping in and out of existence on the quantum level, and we never know the difference, as they usually fall into each other and cancel out a fraction of a second after they come to be.

However, right on the event horizon of a black hole, sometimes a negative particle will be just close enough to fall in, while a positive particle will be just far enough not to, and so they never cancel each other out like they usually do. The negative particle cancels out a fraction of the mass/energy of the black hole, while the equal and opposite positive particle flies out of the hole, making it appear that something must have entered, and then re-exited the whole. The holes do radiate, but nothing already inside the event horizon gets out, sort of.

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Original post: siggy79

Apparently, mathematics is the only way we have learnt as much as we have about space and time and science. Maths helps us understand shapes and the world around us (although it's much more complicated than this). Did you know that one of the millenium problems was to find a formula to predict the next prime number in a sequence. We don't even know about prime numbers yet!

Because prime numbers get fewer as you go higher it made me think of spirals -especially natural spirals in space and how galaxies move. They may explain something we have no comprehension of yet. Anyway I did a search and found this - http://www.numberspiral.com/

It might even have some correlation with the spirals in our DNA - freaky eh?
Science and maths is nothing to be laughed at, it can really help us through uncovering secrets of our reality. Jesus said - seek and you shall find. Keep searching!

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Original post: WindigoXXVIII

If you feel something is wrong, then there probably is. How about changing the place you meditate in; it might be in a spot of negative energy. FInd your power spot. This black hole sounds really dangerous., If you see your cord in the daytime, youre vulnerable to attacks since some people may see your spirit. your cord sounds entangled, and could be a sign that youre being attacked already. In some native american traditional practices, a medicine bag can be used to hide your spirit. can you meditate to develop a talisman for yourself, something along those lines?

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Original post: 1-2-3-me

Well, while you're in the black hole see if you can find my hat!

Anyway. the best way to get out of it is to allow yourself to go deeper in. It may come with very eerie feelings but you can and should disregard those. I'm quite familiar with the feeling you described and may have found my way in and out of singularities. The singularity you visit during astral travel is likely to be of mental quality and thus takes nothing other than thought to escape from. But that is still a good one and a half step I guess. The working of a 'mental' black hole is not very different from those that are observed in space. It is believed that towards the center you reach relativistic speed, now take note that speed has no meaning without direction in which case it becomes mere force or mass. What you experience is either force or mass which are properties that are related to speed. If you try to concentrate on speed and plot a direction alongside of that you may find your way out.

Hope this is helpful.

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Original post: Amhas

I have dealt with a rather strong hole of sorts. Luckily, I cannot project, and was therefore not sucked in. My lack of skill has saved me yet again

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Original post: Runa Dragon

Here's an exceprt on these experiences from William White's "DXM FAQ"

"8.2.1 The Dissociative Spiral
The Dissociative Spiral is a term which I borrowed (and modified) from Shulgin's PiHKAL. It describes a particular set of characteristic sensations or internal states that seem to occur as a result of some sort of abnormal temporal lobe functioning. In PiHKAL, Ann Shulgin recounts how she would experience the "Spiral" when she was younger, almost always right before going to sleep. Many people have reported the very same set of effects on DXM (and ketamine), and I suspect that people who experience it naturally may have something interesting going on in the temporal lobes that mimics the effects of dissociatives. Perhaps this is due to release of endopsychosin, or perhaps it's just the way these people's brains are wired. One person suggested it may be complex partial seizures, but I don't think there's any evidence for that.

The Dissociative Spiral seems to have four phases, each phase lasting a fixed amount of time. Not everyone experiences all phases. I have given each phase a name which I think is descriptive based primarily on the experiences of DXM users; I also suggest you consult PiHKAL for Ann Shulgin's version.

1. Supernova. Ann Shulgin refers to this as "macrocosm-microcosm". There is a sensation that one's "core" is rapidly shrinking, growing ever smaller and smaller, down to the size of a subatomic particle. Accompanying this shrinking sensation is a feeling of one's "outer shell" expanding equally rapidly, until it fills the entire universe. This is generally considered as a pleasant sensation, with a slight characteristic of free-fall.
2. Lilliputian Hallucinations. After shrinking down to a proton, the Lilliputian Hallucinations begin. Everything that one imagines or recalls seems grossly distorted in size. Human figures alternate between tall and thin and stretched out like taffy, and shrunken and rounded. Many people see long, thin ribbons of multicolored energy.
   There is a disturbing sense of Infinity with these hallucinations. Most find this phase extremely grating on the soul, mentally painful, perhaps because one is perceiving objects to have totally opposite characteristics at once. Some people are familar with Lilliputian hallucinations from fevers.
3. Veils of Light and Darkness. The third phase consists of alternating visual fields of total, thick black and ghostly white or greyish-white. Each visual field gives way to the opposite as if veils were being torn and dissolved. The "black veil" is often described as being much darker than ordinary darkness, since even the phosphenes (the patterns one sees with eyes closed in the dark) are absent. Most people also find this phase extremely unpleasant.
4. Contact. The fourth phase, and the rarest, is also the most spectacular. After passing through the last Veil, there is a sudden sense of being in the presence of a profoundly powerful, loving, intelligent entity (or occasionally, multiple entities). These typically greet the individual with empathic communication, sending messages of familiarity, joy, love, concern, and occasionally a vague sense of humorous curiosity at finding a human being in this place. This phase is the most profound, and the most pleasant.
   
   To my knowledge nobody has ever done an EEG during the Dissociative Spiral, but I have a hunch that the temporal lobes would probably be doing something interesting. Perhaps this is a common occurance, but one that most people are incapable of perceiving. In any case, it is frequently observed with DXM, typically phases 1 and 2, occasionally phase 3, and rarely phase 4.
   
   8.2.2 Deja Vu and Other Memory Mishaps
   Deja Vu, the feeling that one has had the exact same experiences before, is common both during and after the DXM trip. Somewhat less common is Jamais Vu, the sensation of being in a totally unfamiliar environment when one is not. Other memory mishaps, such as recognizing unfamiliar objects or people as familiar, or familiar ones as strange and unknown, also occur. All of these are probably due to misfiring in the neural networks responsible for recognizing and recalling sensory input.
5. 8.2.3 Out-of-Body Experiences (OOBEs)
   OOBEs (Out-of-Body Experiences) are common at fourth plateau doses. Typically these start with a sensation that one is being tugged horizontally out of one's body, followed by a floating sensation. Typically one enters what seems to be an entirely different plane of existence, although rarely people report staying in the physical world as a noncorporeal entity, viewing one's body from above. The various alternate planes each have consistent physical rules, life forms, and appearances.
   
   Explaining OOBEs is difficult and is in my opinion currently beyond neuroscience. The rational explanation is that these are delusions, but if so, then they are delusions that we seem to be in some sense programmed to experience in a consistent fashion. The one explanation I have heard that seems to make sense is that one is experiencing one's world (or more accurately, the internal model of one's world) from a "third person" perspective, i.e., the "fly on the wall" viewpoint that many people have when dreaming or recalling memories. There may be some sort of built-in spatial transformation that allows one to perceive (consciously or not) the world from an outsider's perspective and observe one's own actions. It's possible that the posterior cingulate cortex may be involved.
   
   8.2.4 Near-Death and Rebirth Experiences
   Near-death experiences (NDEs) are less common than OOBEs, and also usually occur only on fourth plateau trips. Again this seems to be something that we're wired to experience when the brain is sufficiently disrupted, either by drugs or by lack of oxygen. Following an NDE, and sometimes after a heavy upper plateau trip, one may experience a profound sense of rebirth, a discontinuity in memories as if one has begun life anew. This may be some sort of state-dependent memory phenomenon.
6. 8.2.5 Contact with Alien and Spiritual Beings
   Many people report contact with alien and spiritual beings, deities, and free-floating consciousnesses during upper plateau trips, notably during out-of-body experiences and the dissociative spiral. It has been suggested by Jaynes (350), Persinger (330-349), and others that these entities may be fragments of one's own subconscious mind that one is suddenly perceiving consciously. Curiously enough, deities seem to be more commonly female than male. I have no clue why this is the case.
   
   There is also a more complex dissociative effect involving a unique, consistent set of beliefs about, for lack of a better term, an alien conspiracy; see Section 8.3 below.
   
   8.2.6 Clairvoyance, ESP, and Other Psi Phenomena
   A few people have reported "Psi" phenomena such as ESP (extra-sensory perception), clairvoyance (psychically seeing distant places), and the like. Telekinesis doesn't seem to be reported, although a few report that, while under the influence of DXM, they felt like they could slightly influence the laws of probability. All of these can be safely explained as simply drug-induced delusions, although there has been to my knowledge no formal research on the subject.
   
   It is possible that ESP and related phenomena (with DXM use or without) exist but occur entirely randomly, or only when not being observed critically. Since repeatability, and invariance under observation, are the foundations of science, it may be that questions about psychic phenomena will never yield entirely to science. At this point it becomes a matter of faith.
   
   One interesting factor which does differentiate ESP from other paranormal phenomena is that while most paranormal experiences occur more often during heavier geomagnetic activity, ESP occurs more often during decreased geomagnetic activity (346). The true believers would probably argue that the geomagnetic field is interfering with ESP; the skeptics would most likely suggest that "ESP" is just a consequence of similar thought patterns leading to similar conclusions, and that the geomagnetic field may be capable of inducing noise into the system.
   
   8.2.7 Memory Loops and Prescient Sensations
   DXM can severely alter the sense of causality, and with upper plateau and Plateau Sigma trips, one can lose one's sense of causality completely. One person reported a sudden feeling that he was contacting his own mind in the past, passing to himself the ideas and insights he had experienced as a child. Another person felt such a strong sense of deja vu, coupled with memory impairment, that he believed he'd had a prescient dream of the current events. Such occurrances are probably a consequence of the profound alterations of memory and recognition networks. It's hard to describe how utterly convincing these sensations can seem while under the influence of dissociatives.
   
   8.2.8 Dissociative Thought Patterns
   In the realm of altered states of consciousness, there are several interesting patterns of thought that occur on DXM. Typically these include a sense of deep understanding of highly abstract and often multi-level abstract concepts. Examples include self-referential statements ("this statement is false"), multi-level logic, self-creating ideas (e.g., the concept of a self-creating, self-invoking concept), and so one. One mathematics student was suddenly able to intuitively understand Godel's Incompleteness Theorem (this intuitive understanding persisted even after the DXM wore off).
   
   Most of these concepts are in some sense self-referential, and seem to blend levels of abstraction that don't ordinarily go together. My hunch is that DXM allows the mind to create and maintain associations between increasingly far-fetched and unrelated concepts. As a result, these little "nuggets" of self-referential thought, which would ordinarily be discarded or never make it to consciousness, bubble up into the conscious mind seemingly out of nowhere.
7. 8.3 Cosmic Coincidence Central and the Alien Conspiracy
   Everyone take a deep breath, we're about to jump off into the deep end. Many people who have frequently used DXM or other dissociatives begin to develop consistent contact with "aliens" (with all due skepticism, these are probably elements of one's subconscious mind that have taken on characteristics of independent consciousness). Regardless of the cause, one particular subset of these aliens seem to have surprisingly consistent behaviour and intentions. Here, basically, is the message that can be pieced together from dissociative users.
   
   There are numerous groups of entities or aliens, but two in particular are relevant. One group, the "helpful aliens", are attempting to guide humankind towards societal and spiritual progress with the ultimate intention that we become so far advanced that we can leave behind the earth (and possibly the physical world), and join a vast, intergalactic federation of other races. In order to keep us from blowing ourselves up or slipping into societal chaos, these helpful aliens do what they can to keep us on the right track.
   
   However, there are limits, either by some sort of convention or law, or by the nature of noncorporeal existence, to what these aliens can do. For example, they probably can't show up in big motherships and announce peace on earth; they can't suddenly make all guns and bombs disappear. They seem to be able to influence human progress only by means that appear as coincidence, such as fortuitous events, sudden insights and inspirations, luck, and that sort of thing. Some people have suggested that these "helpful aliens" are bending some sort of "law" by helping us out, and they can only do it as long as it can't be absolutely proven that they interfered with out progress.
   
   Then there are the "not-so-helpful aliens". Not necessarily evil, but totally unconcerned with our race, and unconvinced that we are worth the trouble of helping. Some would say that they view us as we view ants, and would have no qualms about exterminating us if they felt it wise to do so. They too are restricted to operating primarily through coincidence.
   
   Anyone who has studied the belief systems and religions of the world will of course notice that these sets of aliens are nothing new. They are also angels and devils, good and evil spirits, and that sort of thing. There is a great deal of correspondence with the Seelie and Unseelie court of the faeries.
   
   So we are left once again with a part of human consciousness that we don't understand, that is profoundly irrational, and that keeps stubbornly making itself known regardless of how much science and reason we try to cling to. A lot of people have these experiences, on drugs or not (or maybe the ones who aren't on drugs are connected to an "inner pharmacist" of sorts, the secretion of chemicals like endopsychosin which mimic the dissociatives).
   
   Some people have developed surprisingly complex theories about these aliens and their goals and methods. Sometimes the aliens give their names. One person was contacted by an alien named Calsutmoran who said he was from "very far away" (pers. comm.), and explained the Cosmic Coincidence Theory. What is surprising is that someone else, who had never heard this story, also reported contact with an alien of the exact same name. In conclusion, while I don't necessarily think we're pawns in some weird game of the aliens or spirits, I do think there's a part of the human mind that we don't understand, that may be receiving, and transmitting, information in ways we do not recognize. This doesn't necessarily require any ESP or other psychic powers; it could be as simple as gestures, tone of voice, and other factors that we use in communication that we are not directly aware of. I expect the next decade or two will see some truly rigorous investigation of these topics, and I eagerly await the results."

[/list]DXM is Set's Sacred Molecule!!! you can read about my Dexperiences here: http://hrumachis.bravehost.com/DXM.html

...and William White is a moderator on the Dextroverse Forums, if one wishes to communicate with this brilliant DextroProphet: http://www.dextroverse.org/forums/index.php?