Christian AP

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Chahel

[QUOTE=Exorcist] I do not believe an occultist can astral project and travel to known places in their own power—such as leaving ones body and travel to the Niagara Falls (in Canada) for example. I, however, do believe, demons are capable of supernaturally carrying people (and at times just ones soul) to other locations. In Matthew 24:31 and Luke 16:22 we see angels carrying this task out—transporting humans. This is what happens when one astral projects—the unsuspecting soul is taken by a demon, thereby, traveling in the astral realms. This allows the person soul traveling to experience what they (the spirit carrying the individual) have devised to keep the person in further bondage to them. When people report of soul traveling to various places around the world, more often then not they are actually being deceived by the devil, who is capable of distorting your mind and making you believe you actually traveled to these locales or astral planes, when in reality you have been fed a lie. It appears that the devil has the unique ability to instantaneously project a false reality and thereby deceiving the one who believes they are actually traveling on some kind of astral plane (see Matthew 4)



The problem of astral projection is it opens ones body to demonic possession. When one participates in soul travel you allow your body to be unprotected as your soul, which consist of the mind, emotions, and will, leaves your body. It is the mind (part of the soul nature), which wards off evil. It is our free will that lends us the ability to resist the devil and his demons. When you permit your soul to leave your body, essentially you’re leaving a door open for demons to enter your body at any point.[/QUOTE]


It is very possible to travel to places on earth without a body. While it is certainly possible for people to be transported by angelic and demonic entities this is not proof that it is the only way for it to happen. Perhaps the humans were attempting to travel to places beyond their abilities, also the speeds that one is capable of attaining are extremely fast and it is very easy to lose consciousness while doing so if one is a beginner. Saying that the people who believe that they have astral projected are being deceived and "fed a lie" sounds like something someone would say who has never done it and who wants everyone to not do it simply because they believe that it is wrong.

I will agree that we are body, spirit, and soul. I can honestly say that I have never returned to my body and found any visitor trying out my body for size. I am a Christian whether you like it or not.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Pedero

[QUOTE=tigerfu]I just want to know how astral projection would be ok for a christian to do, if it is, i think God would protect me from any demon.[/QUOTE]
You call that faith?!

If you are really a true and devout Christian and whatever, then God will love you because that is all Christianity sums up to, the love of God and respect of his creation, everything else is just the topping. Jesus simplified the ten commandments to just one, the first one, "Love God and his spawn" or whatever, just that people like to complicate things so they kept the whole ten of 'em.

There is no such thing in Christianity that says you can't reach God.

The fearsome God is the Old Testament God, the one that banned us out of Eden and total coolness and stuff. The Christian God is the hippie God, "Love and peace for all," and so on.

The New Testament God is already 2000 years old, and people don't seem to get it still.

Astral Projection is a way of acheiving 'spiritual bliss' and all of that crud. The Hippie God does not want to deprive us of happiness, he wants us to be happy and 'warm' in the presence of him and stuff.

The whole thing about 'suffer on earth, enjoy heaven,' is too old school. Its about having inner peace, man! Love and peace, bro! And so on. You can be a Christian Goth and think life is suffering and God doesn't want us to do shit or find 'inner peace' and be 'close' to God and all that poopty-poopy. Astral Projection is just that.

Anyways... Perhaps I didn't make sense. I am no Christian, but if you 'feel' something is wrong, you won't do it. You could say it's God telling you, "Yo dis shit iz whack brutha!" If you start doing Astral Projection, and it feels good and right, then it's God saying, "go ahead!" It will never be 'Satan' deceiving you. Satan is dead, and he's always been, unless you fear it (or are a Satanist).

And that concludes our talk.

--Pedero, Metaprogramming himself

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Chahel

Pedero,

I fear your moustache! Sorry, couldn't help myself.

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Original post: DropAndRiver

I have never been able to astrally project; I am more of a remote presencer (I am good at that). Even still, the only ones who report getting possessed are the ones who believed they could or would. I think this is one of those things that paradigm shifting can protect you from. Fear is only useful when controlled and balanced by a bit of courage.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Exorcist

[QUOTE=Chahel] I am a Christian whether you like it or not.[/QUOTE] I never said anything to the contrary.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Exorcist

[QUOTE=Chahel] Saying that the people who believe that they have astral projected are being deceived and "fed a lie" sounds like something someone would say who has never done it and who wants everyone to not do it simply because they believe that it is wrong. [/QUOTE] Your logic is filled with fallacies. I believe murder is wrong. I didn't need to have murdered someone to know this truth. Yes, I don't want people to go around murdering, for it is wrong. Imagine that.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Qryztufre

[QUOTE=Exorcist]Your logic is filled with fallacies. I believe murder is wrong. I didn't need to have murdered someone to know this truth. Yes, I don't want people to go around murdering, for it is wrong. Imagine that.[/QUOTE]
Not all murder is wrong though...The Followers of God have been killing people in the name of their creator since his invention. The stoning of disobedient children used to be common practice, and then there is always the Crusades (*plays the Circle Jerks 'Killing for Jesus' in the background).

There is more scripture then just the bible and in scripture there are several instances of people going up to heaven or receiving 'dreams' from the almighty. Many of these could be said to be similar to an OOBE or in the case of going to heaven Astral Projection.

IMHO, the bible tells too many half-truths about many things...that or the guys up in CM that are summoning Angels are really speaking to Demons *shrug* but then if that's the case I would be suspect of any "prayer" or Miricle. If the Angels (demons?) can pull off a stunt like that for the last 3000 years then it's likely not God you should be fearing.

Open your heart, open your mind...
Q

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Kazahel

Hmm.

Christians confuse me...you worry about sinning sins you should know you'd be forgiven for in the first place. I mean even murder is forgiven isnt it? So what 'time' you gonna do for astral projecting then?
If your faith is strong you are untouchable, and if you truly believe in God then your faith should be strong. So dont stress.

Following your heart is best.
Christians should learn to follow that sometimes as well as there bible.
Because its all good.





.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: perpetualsound

[QUOTE=Qryztufre]
Not all murder is wrong though...The Followers of God have been killing people in the name of their creator since his invention. The stoning of disobedient children used to be common practice, and then there is always the Crusades (*plays the Circle Jerks 'Killing for Jesus' in the background).

[/QUOTE]Let's not forget Exodus 22:18 - "Any witch should be executed".
Or how about Exodus 22:29-30 - " You must give me the firstborn of your sons. Do the same with your cattle and your sheep. Let them stay with their mothers for seven days, but give them to me on the eighth day."

So before any Christians come whining to me complaining that witchcraft's wrong, they should look at the roots of their own religion first.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Chahel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chahel
I am a Christian whether you like it or not.
"I never said anything to the contrary." - Exorcist

I felt that it was implied, by your statements, that I was not and wanted to state my beliefs for the record.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chahel
Saying that the people who believe that they have astral projected are being deceived and "fed a lie" sounds like something someone would say who has never done it and who wants everyone to not do it simply because they believe that it is wrong.
"Your logic is filled with fallacies. I believe murder is wrong. I didn't need to have murdered someone to know this truth. Yes, I don't want people to go around murdering, for it is wrong. Imagine that." - Exorcist

It was a statement made to convey my impression of your views. I should have added the words "without having proof that it is wrong."

It is a simple matter to conclude that cold-blooded murder, not done in self-defense, is wrong. No, you don't have to do it to know, but the case of astral projection is not so well-defined or easy. My disagreement with you stems from the writings that you posted saying that people were being deceived by demons and that their "visions" were distortions fed to them by the devil. This is something that you cannot know for sure. Someone who has not experienced it would not be able to make these assumptions, or be able to exercise their discernment while undergoing it. Blanket statements that astral projection is "wrong", without any proof, or actual experience, are just statements of belief.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: tigerfu

You all sound mixed up, didnt you know that when jesus was at one of stoning things he forgave the lady and let her go, he didnt throw a rock at her, and also its not that i dont think God wont forgive me, but when your a christian you want to make God happy, and i dont even understand what pedero is trying to tell me

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Pedero

[QUOTE=tigerfu]and i dont even understand what pedero is trying to tell me[/QUOTE]
And here I was thinking I would make sense. fnord. 23-skidoo. *GOBBLE GOBBLE GOBBLE GOBBLE GOBBLE*.

Yeah, iwas just trying to confuse you, the truth is there is no God but Eris Herself! But don't tell the Illuminati about it! :O

She says you shoudn't eat Hot Dogs and you shouldn't Astral Project, or else you will be banned to The land of Eternal Podge. You don't want to go there, that is why you should eat Hot Dogs and Astral Project.

[QUOTE=Qryztufre](*plays the Circle Jerks 'Killing for Jesus' in the background).[/QUOTE]

Circle Jerks kicks ass. XD

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: tigerfu

Are there any christians on this forum who astral project???

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Red Devil

I'm christian, and I'm currently working into it. As the matter of fact, I'm going to bed in some minutes to try this...

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Original post: Mia

Stuff like this reads to me like astral projecting into the spiritual realm.[/QUOTE]
Where else can it be?

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Original post: Mia

To Pedero:Can you tell me what your user name means?

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: visceral/spagyrical

[QUOTE=DocHolliday]To continue with what SM said - just about any time the Bible speaks of a person being "in the spirit" before a vision, they're astrally projecting. What do you think Ezekiel was doing when he was being shown the 3rd Temple?[/QUOTE]I just wanted to bring this back up. What most people don't realize (DocHolliday not included), is that all occult practices, if stripped of the beliefs attached to them, are totally independent of religion. Evocation, sigils, opening the third eye, lucid dreaming, energy work, transmutation, banishing, telekinesis, telepathy, basic meditation, etc., require no beliefs whatsoever. You don't need to believe in demons and angels in order to perform a successful evocation. There is nothing inherent in raw occult practice that goes against Christian doctrine. The Hail Mary is an exercise in evocation. Confession is a banishing ritual. The rosary is a magic wand. And the list goes on from there.

Just thought I'd emphasize that.

v/s

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Original post: tigerfu

But when they did it in the bible they werent trying to were they.

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Original post: visceral/spagyrical

The Bible leaves out a lot of "this is what happened beforehand" information. So, just because it doesn't mention it, doesn't mean that trying to is antithetic to God's teachings. In Catholicism, for example, the mystic is held rather high. St. Francis of Assisi, to name but one, was well known for incorporating physical pain into prayer. Sounds a lot like the occasional Chaote who claims that sudden pain induces gnosis.

v/s

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Original post: DropAndRiver

PLus, the passages from the Bible make one infer that the experience was had to bring them closer to God. If that is true, and God did bring them out of their body in such a manner, how could he say it is wrong when you do it on purpose? What is the big difference?

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Original post: visceral/spagyrical

He doesn't say it's wrong. And, as far as the Bible is concerned, it not once mentions that there's a difference.

v/s

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Original post: Pedero

[QUOTE=Mia]To Pedero:Can you tell me what your user name means?[/QUOTE]
It means Pederasty.

Not really, but maybe in some subconscious level it does.


[QUOTE=visceral/spagyrical]
I just wanted to bring this back up. What most people don't realize (DocHolliday not included), is that all occult practices, if stripped of the beliefs attached to them, are totally independent of religion. Evocation, sigils, opening the third eye, lucid dreaming, energy work, transmutation, banishing, telekinesis, telepathy, basic meditation, etc., require no beliefs whatsoever. You don't need to believe in demons and angels in order to perform a successful evocation. There is nothing inherent in raw occult practice that goes against Christian doctrine. The Hail Mary is an exercise in evocation. Confession is a banishing ritual. The rosary is a magic wand. And the list goes on from there.

Just thought I'd emphasize that.

[/QUOTE]
Agreed, Bobdammit. Astral Projection and Magic and whatever you want to call this mystical stuff is:
a) Bullshit
b) True
c) Whatever you want it to be

Emphasis on a and c... and b.
Now, whatever terminology you wish to use, all you are doing when 'astral projecting' and so on is thinking in a way you never thought before. And I am not too sure, but I don't think God ever says something like, "Stay stupid and ignorant I-dammit!"
Yeah, you don't need to call it Astral Projecting if you don't want to. You can call it approaching god or deep prayer or whatever, and still have the same effects as 'astral projection'.

Astral Projection is just a fancy way of calling this thought process so you can think you're oh so powerful and shit.

Go and do your stuff, you don't need to call it Astral Projection, just use the same methods but within a "Christian Dogma", just like those people in the bible who did all these things that strangely sound like Astral Projection, but they never say they did Astral Projection.

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Original post: tigerfu

what would you call it then

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Original post: visceral/spagyrical

Flying. Call it whatever you want.

v/s

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Original post: ShekinahMoon

[QUOTE=tigerfu]But when they did it in the bible they werent trying to were they.[/QUOTE]
Of course they were. That was an acceptable practice for a prophet. It was one of the abilities that made him or her a prophet.