Original post: Kath_
What follows will be a sharing of a very deep personal path through mysteries never written of before. Some of it may not make sense as it is written. Some of it WILL be impossible to accurately commit to words, and will only make sense to the very few who've touched on something similar themselves.
It may be at times perhaps offensive or upsetting in content. I think that any 'tidying up' would be a horrible disservice. You simply don't drape a towel around the waist of Michelangelo's Statue of David. Some aspects may not make sense until much later, and the 'theme' of events and lessons is constantly changing though myriad stages which at a glance seem unrelated, but are not. The direction of learning changes 'drastically' and often, weaving a superficially dichotomous thread through stages of understanding.
It is not a 'paint by numbers' mystery path. It is tailored to my own psyche, history, social indoctrination, spiritual abilities and limitations, etc. Some things I needed to learn through epiphany might be blatantly obvious to another, and vice versa. And sometimes, a thing can be known on a rational level but it can lack meaning and depth without vivid experiences to ground it in the mind. Alas, nothing I type will provide first hand vivid experience for the reader. I cannot replicate the 'path' merely by writing about it. It hasn't been given to me in a form which can truly be passed on. Its personalized, and contains many intangible elements. This is merely a record of it, which might prove in some way useful or interesting to others.
I would ask that any criticism be directed at myself, or at the ideas being discussed, and not at The Lady in White. I am pretty easy going, but I'd appreciate not being put in a position of defending someone I hold dear. So please do recognize that this is a very personal subject matter, and not really either a hypothetical or intellectual thread.
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Original post: Kath_
2001
First Contact ...Sorta
From the normal dreamscape I suddenly find myself adrift in a void. I'm suddenly quite lucid, but I seem to lack the control over things around me that a person has when they are within the machinations of their own mind. The abyss around me reminds me of outer space, but without stars. It is an infinite expanse of void, in every direction. I am floating, perhaps because there is no reference point to create the notion of 'down'. In this place I seem to have a 'dream body', implying that I am not simply acting as an observer. I do not find the infinite expanse to be threatening or disquieting. Instead I find it somewhat soothing.
After I become adjusted to this new setting, I see a light in the distance. It moves slowly towards me and I can make out that it is a luminous object, more specifically a statue. A female figure. It is neolithic in style and craftsmanship, carved from a pale colored stone which seems to not really glow, but more seem 'illuminated', or bathed in light, by an invisible light source. The statue comes quite near before veering off to one side of me and moving on past.
Then I see another, coming from the same spot directly in front of me. It moves closer, appearing much like the first, but created with a bit more craftsmanship. As it nears me it veers off and passes by me on the other side of me. Then there is another, and another, approaching and passing me by to the right and left in succession. Each statue seems better made than the one before it, as though the statues show a progress of craftsmanship through art history. All of them are female figures. All of them carved from pale stone, and bathed in light. I am not certain how many passed by, but it was around 10 or so.
Finally a statue approaches which seems very much like the greek style of sculpture. It is a perfectly lifelike depiction of a woman in sparse robing, holding a pair of symbolic objects. This statue approaches me but does not veer off to either side. Instead she comes to a stop in front of me. It is a very beautiful sculpture.
And then she spoke to me. And I realized that she was not made of stone at all. She had very pale skin, and white clothing, and bathed in luminous light she seemed fairly monochromatic, creating the illusion that she was a statue. Her eyes were a golden hue, her hair the color of honey. She wore several gold adornments, and her robes were a pale white.
What did she say? I honestly don't know. It is difficult to explain, but it was as though she were speaking to my higher self. She was speaking to 'me' only in the general sense. My conscious ego was below the conversation, and was simply present during it. The 'me' she was speaking to was like my higher self... it's difficult to describe. A face of 'self' more encompassing and much more vast than my everyday consciousness. They conversed in a language which was jibberish to my ears, but while I was in the dream I understood every word of it. When I awoke however, the part of me which understood the language was gone, and all I could recall was unintelligible sounds.
The conversation lasted about an hour. She was explaining many things to me. And she was explaining the objects which she held. One of them was a 'shen' ring, the other a rod. There were apparently hidden meanings to these, but I do not consciously recall what they were.
She had an imposing presence. To be near her had the subtle feeling of being next to something very heavy, like a locomotive, etc. just a 'weight' to her personal presence. She was also luminous. She seemed always to be bathed in light, not glowing internally, but lit by unseen light sources. Her poise was rock steady and regal, and she felt at once savage and serene.
In the end, some sort of consensus was reached and I had a sense of agreement with her. I then woke from the dream.
2001
First Contact ...Sorta
From the normal dreamscape I suddenly find myself adrift in a void. I'm suddenly quite lucid, but I seem to lack the control over things around me that a person has when they are within the machinations of their own mind. The abyss around me reminds me of outer space, but without stars. It is an infinite expanse of void, in every direction. I am floating, perhaps because there is no reference point to create the notion of 'down'. In this place I seem to have a 'dream body', implying that I am not simply acting as an observer. I do not find the infinite expanse to be threatening or disquieting. Instead I find it somewhat soothing.
After I become adjusted to this new setting, I see a light in the distance. It moves slowly towards me and I can make out that it is a luminous object, more specifically a statue. A female figure. It is neolithic in style and craftsmanship, carved from a pale colored stone which seems to not really glow, but more seem 'illuminated', or bathed in light, by an invisible light source. The statue comes quite near before veering off to one side of me and moving on past.
Then I see another, coming from the same spot directly in front of me. It moves closer, appearing much like the first, but created with a bit more craftsmanship. As it nears me it veers off and passes by me on the other side of me. Then there is another, and another, approaching and passing me by to the right and left in succession. Each statue seems better made than the one before it, as though the statues show a progress of craftsmanship through art history. All of them are female figures. All of them carved from pale stone, and bathed in light. I am not certain how many passed by, but it was around 10 or so.
Finally a statue approaches which seems very much like the greek style of sculpture. It is a perfectly lifelike depiction of a woman in sparse robing, holding a pair of symbolic objects. This statue approaches me but does not veer off to either side. Instead she comes to a stop in front of me. It is a very beautiful sculpture.
And then she spoke to me. And I realized that she was not made of stone at all. She had very pale skin, and white clothing, and bathed in luminous light she seemed fairly monochromatic, creating the illusion that she was a statue. Her eyes were a golden hue, her hair the color of honey. She wore several gold adornments, and her robes were a pale white.
What did she say? I honestly don't know. It is difficult to explain, but it was as though she were speaking to my higher self. She was speaking to 'me' only in the general sense. My conscious ego was below the conversation, and was simply present during it. The 'me' she was speaking to was like my higher self... it's difficult to describe. A face of 'self' more encompassing and much more vast than my everyday consciousness. They conversed in a language which was jibberish to my ears, but while I was in the dream I understood every word of it. When I awoke however, the part of me which understood the language was gone, and all I could recall was unintelligible sounds.
The conversation lasted about an hour. She was explaining many things to me. And she was explaining the objects which she held. One of them was a 'shen' ring, the other a rod. There were apparently hidden meanings to these, but I do not consciously recall what they were.
She had an imposing presence. To be near her had the subtle feeling of being next to something very heavy, like a locomotive, etc. just a 'weight' to her personal presence. She was also luminous. She seemed always to be bathed in light, not glowing internally, but lit by unseen light sources. Her poise was rock steady and regal, and she felt at once savage and serene.
In the end, some sort of consensus was reached and I had a sense of agreement with her. I then woke from the dream.
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Original post: Kath_
For Refference:
Shen ring
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shen_ring
A shen ring is a circle with a line at a tangent to it, which was used in hieroglyphics as a stylised loop of a rope. In particular, the circle represented eternity, as circles did in many ancient cultures (e.g. the wedding ring). In numerical use, a circle represented infinity, all, or everything.
The stretched "shen ring" is called a cartouche
The symbol could be stretched to contain other objects, which were then understood as being made eternal by the shen ring. Indeed, when it contained a name, the symbol became the cartouche. The word shen itself means, in Egyptian, encircle.
...The Shen ring is often attached to various types of staffs, the staff of authority, or power, symbolizing the Eternal authority of that power.
the circular variant was also used in mesopotamia, where it may have originated, though its much more common in kemetic hieroglyphs/art.
For Refference:
Shen ring
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shen_ring
A shen ring is a circle with a line at a tangent to it, which was used in hieroglyphics as a stylised loop of a rope. In particular, the circle represented eternity, as circles did in many ancient cultures (e.g. the wedding ring). In numerical use, a circle represented infinity, all, or everything.
The stretched "shen ring" is called a cartouche
The symbol could be stretched to contain other objects, which were then understood as being made eternal by the shen ring. Indeed, when it contained a name, the symbol became the cartouche. The word shen itself means, in Egyptian, encircle.
...The Shen ring is often attached to various types of staffs, the staff of authority, or power, symbolizing the Eternal authority of that power.
the circular variant was also used in mesopotamia, where it may have originated, though its much more common in kemetic hieroglyphs/art.
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Original post: Rin Daemoko
The presence of a rod in one hand immediately reminded me of Lachesis.
This could be completely unrelated to your experience, but I thought I'd share that this is what I immediately thought of when reading your post.
The presence of a rod in one hand immediately reminded me of Lachesis.
Even the gods were said to fear the Fates for the power they held over their divine destinies.In Greek mythology, Lachesis was the second of the Three Fates, or Moirae. She was the apportioner, deciding how much time for life was to be allowed for each person or being. She measured the thread of life with her rod. She is also said to choose a person's destiny after a thread was measured.
This could be completely unrelated to your experience, but I thought I'd share that this is what I immediately thought of when reading your post.
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Original post: astral_light21
Interesting stuff Kath, it reminded me 2 experiences that I can recall right off the bat.
The one I can recall best seemed to be myself and somewhere else, and we seemed to have a long drawn out conversation/argument and strangest thing about it was we seemed to be moving at the same time. I also felt that sometime near the end of it, we had reached some sort of agreement. And just like yours, I can't remember at all what the whole argument was about.
Anyway, looking forward to reading more.
Interesting stuff Kath, it reminded me 2 experiences that I can recall right off the bat.
The one I can recall best seemed to be myself and somewhere else, and we seemed to have a long drawn out conversation/argument and strangest thing about it was we seemed to be moving at the same time. I also felt that sometime near the end of it, we had reached some sort of agreement. And just like yours, I can't remember at all what the whole argument was about.
Anyway, looking forward to reading more.
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Original post: bellenigma
Well that's a lovely story, but I thought this was going to talk about your spiritual path, not a dream of yours. Actually, okay, it could very well be a contact of sorts with a deity or spiritual entity. I am just wondering how you grew from this experience if you don't remember what was said between the both of you?
Well that's a lovely story, but I thought this was going to talk about your spiritual path, not a dream of yours. Actually, okay, it could very well be a contact of sorts with a deity or spiritual entity. I am just wondering how you grew from this experience if you don't remember what was said between the both of you?
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Original post: astral projectionist
perhaps you can unify the higher and lower portions of your psyche, so as to enable better remembrance.Kath_;372086 wrote:It is difficult to explain, but it was as though she were speaking to my higher self. She was speaking to 'me' only in the general sense. My conscious ego was below the conversation, and was simply present during it. The 'me' she was speaking to was like my higher self... it's difficult to describe. A face of 'self' more encompassing and much more vast than my everyday consciousness. They conversed in a language which was jibberish to my ears, but while I was in the dream I understood every word of it. When I awoke however, the part of me which understood the language was gone, and all I could recall was unintelligible sounds.
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Original post: funquie
Kath,
I would recommend that you approach this entity in a more formal, lucid ritual setting, rather than just relying on dream-state contacts. I think perhaps this entity might be your HGA, trying to make contact with you. Apparently, this entity thinks you are at a point in your spiritual development that you can benefit from some outside interaction.
Look into the Ritual that Crowley used for contacting his HGA. It is VERY effective, and can be easily modified to more closely fit with your personal practice and mythos...
I used this operation myself about 10 years ago, to TREMENDOUS effect and success. I have established a long and fruitful relationship with an entity that has guided me in many things, and helped me reach many helpful realizations.
I know a lot of people see Crowley's work as being archaic, out-moded, and pompous. And in many cases, it is. But his HGA operation is VERY useful, and easily modified. Look it up and give it a try...
Here is Phil Hine's take on the whole HGA thing:
http://www.philhine.org.uk/writings/ess_hga.html
And here is Crowley's take on it, Liber Samekh (with extensive notes):
http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib800.html
Perhaps teh most lucid and insightful discussion of this operation is in Chapter 8 of "The Magick of Aleister Crowley" by Lon Milo DuQuette. This is the version I used, with a few modifications, to great effect and success.
And of course there is the incredibly complicated and time-consuming "Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel" operation from Abramelin, which is an interesting bit of historical reference, but hardly practical unless you are either chronically unemployed or independently wealthy...
--Funquie.
Kath,
I would recommend that you approach this entity in a more formal, lucid ritual setting, rather than just relying on dream-state contacts. I think perhaps this entity might be your HGA, trying to make contact with you. Apparently, this entity thinks you are at a point in your spiritual development that you can benefit from some outside interaction.
Look into the Ritual that Crowley used for contacting his HGA. It is VERY effective, and can be easily modified to more closely fit with your personal practice and mythos...
I used this operation myself about 10 years ago, to TREMENDOUS effect and success. I have established a long and fruitful relationship with an entity that has guided me in many things, and helped me reach many helpful realizations.
I know a lot of people see Crowley's work as being archaic, out-moded, and pompous. And in many cases, it is. But his HGA operation is VERY useful, and easily modified. Look it up and give it a try...
Here is Phil Hine's take on the whole HGA thing:
http://www.philhine.org.uk/writings/ess_hga.html
And here is Crowley's take on it, Liber Samekh (with extensive notes):
http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib800.html
Perhaps teh most lucid and insightful discussion of this operation is in Chapter 8 of "The Magick of Aleister Crowley" by Lon Milo DuQuette. This is the version I used, with a few modifications, to great effect and success.
And of course there is the incredibly complicated and time-consuming "Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel" operation from Abramelin, which is an interesting bit of historical reference, but hardly practical unless you are either chronically unemployed or independently wealthy...
--Funquie.
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Original post: Kath_
[QUOTE=bellenigma;372345]Well that's a lovely story, but I thought this was going to talk about your spiritual path, not a dream of yours. Actually, okay, it could very well be a contact of sorts with a deity or spiritual entity. I am just wondering how you grew from this experience if you don't remember what was said between the both of you?[/QUOTE]
Ah, but you see, this is titled 'first contact'. The first of perhaps a thousand interactions with this same entity. And all of them after this first, are more communicative, and cover topics which run across vast stretches of spirituality, psychology, and philosophy. not to mention magic, spiritual evolution, etc.
[QUOTE=astal projectionist]perhaps you can unify the higher and lower portions of your psyche, so as to enable better remembrance.[/QUOTE]
*nod* that's pretty astute. and i've long since done as you describe. initially though she created the bridge, and then showed me how to maintain it.
[QUOTE=funquie]I would recommend that you approach this entity in a more formal, lucid ritual setting, rather than just relying on dream-state contacts.[/QUOTE] hmm. this entry is a tad over 7 years old. So really I can only elaborate on how things did develop, rather than go back and re-approach it differently. I can say that due to understandings and communications which follow on this initial meeting, it would be a pretty safe assumption that she would discourage ritual interaction with her. I do intend to delve into her thoughts on this matter later on.
[QUOTE=funquie]I think perhaps this entity might be your HGA, trying to make contact with you. Apparently, this entity thinks you are at a point in your spiritual development that you can benefit from some outside interaction.[/QUOTE] that fits very nicely actually. although it took me years to realize this. I hope to go into a great deal more detail in this vein.
[QUOTE=funquie]I used this operation myself about 10 years ago, to TREMENDOUS effect and success. I have established a long and fruitful relationship with an entity that has guided me in many things, and helped me reach many helpful realizations.[/QUOTE] cool
about 7 years here, and we've covered more ground than I ever dreamed existed.
[QUOTE=funquie]I know a lot of people see Crowley's work as being archaic, out-moded, and pompous. And in many cases, it is. [/QUOTE] that sums up my first impression of him, but I have come to develop a respect for the guy over the years.
[QUOTE=funquie]Here is Phil Hine's take on the whole HGA thing:
http://www.philhine.org.uk/writings/ess_hga.html[/QUOTE] now that was a fun read. I can tell right away that he's got experience with this. But I can also tell that he hasn't really dived into it. He keeps one foot on the ground, and doesn't want to let go of that, to see how deep the rabbit hole goes. It's completely understandable, but I have never felt that the path to greatness is paved with caution. the path to safety perhaps, or to prudence, but if you lust after something as high as the stars, you're not going to get there with one foot on the ground. I'm simultaneously amazed at the overall quality and content in this article you linked, but i also find myself biting my tongue and wishing very much i could reach out to the author and explain a few things which he seems to have missed. anyway, thank you for the link, it is an excellent read for any occultist. I especially liked the bit about "game of higher intelligences' and this sentence at the end I found an interesting method was to then try playing both roles alone... speaks to an evo/invocation method which the author doesn't elaborate on.
[QUOTE=funquie]And of course there is the incredibly complicated and time-consuming "Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel" operation from Abramelin, which is an interesting bit of historical reference, but hardly practical unless you are either chronically unemployed or independently wealthy...[/QUOTE] your hga can create such an environment for you... but will likely take the most expedient route, and they're not particularly interested in material wealth or possessions.
I keep wanting to say more, but I hope to make a lengthy go at this thread, and I don't want to unveil too much too rapidly and fail to do the content justice for lack of depth, detail, & chronology.
[QUOTE=bellenigma;372345]Well that's a lovely story, but I thought this was going to talk about your spiritual path, not a dream of yours. Actually, okay, it could very well be a contact of sorts with a deity or spiritual entity. I am just wondering how you grew from this experience if you don't remember what was said between the both of you?[/QUOTE]
Ah, but you see, this is titled 'first contact'. The first of perhaps a thousand interactions with this same entity. And all of them after this first, are more communicative, and cover topics which run across vast stretches of spirituality, psychology, and philosophy. not to mention magic, spiritual evolution, etc.
[QUOTE=astal projectionist]perhaps you can unify the higher and lower portions of your psyche, so as to enable better remembrance.[/QUOTE]
*nod* that's pretty astute. and i've long since done as you describe. initially though she created the bridge, and then showed me how to maintain it.
[QUOTE=funquie]I would recommend that you approach this entity in a more formal, lucid ritual setting, rather than just relying on dream-state contacts.[/QUOTE] hmm. this entry is a tad over 7 years old. So really I can only elaborate on how things did develop, rather than go back and re-approach it differently. I can say that due to understandings and communications which follow on this initial meeting, it would be a pretty safe assumption that she would discourage ritual interaction with her. I do intend to delve into her thoughts on this matter later on.
[QUOTE=funquie]I think perhaps this entity might be your HGA, trying to make contact with you. Apparently, this entity thinks you are at a point in your spiritual development that you can benefit from some outside interaction.[/QUOTE] that fits very nicely actually. although it took me years to realize this. I hope to go into a great deal more detail in this vein.
[QUOTE=funquie]I used this operation myself about 10 years ago, to TREMENDOUS effect and success. I have established a long and fruitful relationship with an entity that has guided me in many things, and helped me reach many helpful realizations.[/QUOTE] cool
about 7 years here, and we've covered more ground than I ever dreamed existed. [QUOTE=funquie]I know a lot of people see Crowley's work as being archaic, out-moded, and pompous. And in many cases, it is. [/QUOTE] that sums up my first impression of him, but I have come to develop a respect for the guy over the years.
[QUOTE=funquie]Here is Phil Hine's take on the whole HGA thing:
http://www.philhine.org.uk/writings/ess_hga.html[/QUOTE] now that was a fun read. I can tell right away that he's got experience with this. But I can also tell that he hasn't really dived into it. He keeps one foot on the ground, and doesn't want to let go of that, to see how deep the rabbit hole goes. It's completely understandable, but I have never felt that the path to greatness is paved with caution. the path to safety perhaps, or to prudence, but if you lust after something as high as the stars, you're not going to get there with one foot on the ground. I'm simultaneously amazed at the overall quality and content in this article you linked, but i also find myself biting my tongue and wishing very much i could reach out to the author and explain a few things which he seems to have missed. anyway, thank you for the link, it is an excellent read for any occultist. I especially liked the bit about "game of higher intelligences'
and this sentence at the end I found an interesting method was to then try playing both roles alone... speaks to an evo/invocation method which the author doesn't elaborate on.[QUOTE=funquie]And of course there is the incredibly complicated and time-consuming "Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel" operation from Abramelin, which is an interesting bit of historical reference, but hardly practical unless you are either chronically unemployed or independently wealthy...[/QUOTE] your hga can create such an environment for you... but will likely take the most expedient route, and they're not particularly interested in material wealth or possessions.
I keep wanting to say more, but I hope to make a lengthy go at this thread, and I don't want to unveil too much too rapidly and fail to do the content justice for lack of depth, detail, & chronology.
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Original post: Kath_
2001
Who Are You?
The first dream was followed by a second, a third, forth, etc. She became a frequent visitor to my dreamscape. or more accurately, i became a frequent visitor of hers. Initially interaction with her was during lucid dreams. But this was not rare, as she could apparently at will cause me to become lucid in a dream and pluck me out of my normal dreaming to visit with her. When I learned to astral project, I saw that much more of her, and she became a routine fixture in my daily life.
Early in this courtship she related to me the nature of our relationship. This she did nonverbally. Its difficult to describe well, but she simply impressed upon me the sum total of the concept, along with a vivid sensation of it. She related that she was in a sense my creator or mother... but in a sense slightly different than an organic relation. It was as though I were a miniature of her, a splinter, a shard.
In some senses you might say that she was my 'greater self' of which I was only a small cross section. This fits a psychological model, as the consciousness is only a small part of the overall mind. But I do feel certain that she is much more than just my subconscious. at least the subconscious which is housed in my physical brain. In a sense you could view her as my spiritual subconscious, or perhaps more accurately 'superconscious'.
Among plants, there are species which grow shoots which are themselves actually new plants, asexually created, patterned after the original. they exist as a part of the parent plant, one in the same organism, yet if cut off and planted, they will grow independently as a new young plant. this seems a closer example of the manner of parenthood she impressed upon me. a vision of a thread of sameness running through her and I, relationship, meaning.
Wherever you see me use the word Mother, with a capital M, I am speaking of her, and that is the name i hold for her in my heart... along with lover, goddess, friend, and mentor. I frequently call her my mentor in occult settings. it avoids excessive off topic explanation.
But what about her name? Well of course I asked. And she responded verbally (which is uncommon for her, more on this later).
This is a paraphrase of what she said:
"I have many names."
"But no label captures the essence of who I am. Labels seek to contain and quantify, they are reductionist tools. You feel me, my essence, the fiber of my being. That is more than any label or string of sounds. You touch the quintessence of who I am, and bask in it. What use do you have for a label? In the mind, labels supplant the reality of a thing, distancing the quintessence of what is described from the consciousness, acting as a hollow avatar of the thing itself."
"Know 'me', directly, wordlessly, and no title or label which would only divide your understanding and dilute your focus on that which is I."
Alongside these words (paraphrased) was a stream of sensations and nonverbal thoughts which added depth of meaning and context and vividness to what she said.
This is incidentally where I derived my concept of what exactly is being described by the magical concept of 'true names'. I've come to view it in a way very similar to Plato's allegory of the cave. In that to me, something's 'true name' has nothing to do with letters or sounds. Which really was my first step of departure from western esoteric paradigms. That a name is not the thing it describes, only the thing itself can define itself entire. Thinking like this can present certain ideological obstacles in many ritual systems.
many years later, she did tell me a phonetic name for herself. I got the impression it was a name which was very old. i was at the time quite sad, and she knew her gesture would cheer me up. she did this long after i had learned what was intended by her initial withholding of her name, and I was long past any risk of objectifying & compartmentalizing the visceral experience of communing with her. the name she gave was a bit long, but was a very private and informal name. i have not been able to match it to a language (something i'm normally good at). it will remain private.
2001
Who Are You?
The first dream was followed by a second, a third, forth, etc. She became a frequent visitor to my dreamscape. or more accurately, i became a frequent visitor of hers. Initially interaction with her was during lucid dreams. But this was not rare, as she could apparently at will cause me to become lucid in a dream and pluck me out of my normal dreaming to visit with her. When I learned to astral project, I saw that much more of her, and she became a routine fixture in my daily life.
Early in this courtship she related to me the nature of our relationship. This she did nonverbally. Its difficult to describe well, but she simply impressed upon me the sum total of the concept, along with a vivid sensation of it. She related that she was in a sense my creator or mother... but in a sense slightly different than an organic relation. It was as though I were a miniature of her, a splinter, a shard.
In some senses you might say that she was my 'greater self' of which I was only a small cross section. This fits a psychological model, as the consciousness is only a small part of the overall mind. But I do feel certain that she is much more than just my subconscious. at least the subconscious which is housed in my physical brain. In a sense you could view her as my spiritual subconscious, or perhaps more accurately 'superconscious'.
Among plants, there are species which grow shoots which are themselves actually new plants, asexually created, patterned after the original. they exist as a part of the parent plant, one in the same organism, yet if cut off and planted, they will grow independently as a new young plant. this seems a closer example of the manner of parenthood she impressed upon me. a vision of a thread of sameness running through her and I, relationship, meaning.
Wherever you see me use the word Mother, with a capital M, I am speaking of her, and that is the name i hold for her in my heart... along with lover, goddess, friend, and mentor. I frequently call her my mentor in occult settings. it avoids excessive off topic explanation.
But what about her name? Well of course I asked. And she responded verbally (which is uncommon for her, more on this later).
This is a paraphrase of what she said:
"I have many names."
"But no label captures the essence of who I am. Labels seek to contain and quantify, they are reductionist tools. You feel me, my essence, the fiber of my being. That is more than any label or string of sounds. You touch the quintessence of who I am, and bask in it. What use do you have for a label? In the mind, labels supplant the reality of a thing, distancing the quintessence of what is described from the consciousness, acting as a hollow avatar of the thing itself."
"Know 'me', directly, wordlessly, and no title or label which would only divide your understanding and dilute your focus on that which is I."
Alongside these words (paraphrased) was a stream of sensations and nonverbal thoughts which added depth of meaning and context and vividness to what she said.
This is incidentally where I derived my concept of what exactly is being described by the magical concept of 'true names'. I've come to view it in a way very similar to Plato's allegory of the cave. In that to me, something's 'true name' has nothing to do with letters or sounds. Which really was my first step of departure from western esoteric paradigms. That a name is not the thing it describes, only the thing itself can define itself entire. Thinking like this can present certain ideological obstacles in many ritual systems.
many years later, she did tell me a phonetic name for herself. I got the impression it was a name which was very old. i was at the time quite sad, and she knew her gesture would cheer me up. she did this long after i had learned what was intended by her initial withholding of her name, and I was long past any risk of objectifying & compartmentalizing the visceral experience of communing with her. the name she gave was a bit long, but was a very private and informal name. i have not been able to match it to a language (something i'm normally good at). it will remain private.
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The Lady in White
Original post: Master 27
Thanks for sharing this, Kath.
It's always interesting to hear other people's experiences on this topic.
Thanks for sharing this, Kath.
It's always interesting to hear other people's experiences on this topic.
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The Lady in White
Original post: bellenigma
You know I thought this thread would be boring, but after this second post about your goddess I'm becoming more and more interested. Of course it could be due to your magnificent writing abilities. You're very concise and descriptive. Anyways, I look forward to hearing more! By the way, I really like what you had to say about the labels and names.
You know I thought this thread would be boring, but after this second post about your goddess I'm becoming more and more interested. Of course it could be due to your magnificent writing abilities. You're very concise and descriptive. Anyways, I look forward to hearing more! By the way, I really like what you had to say about the labels and names.
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The Lady in White
Original post: hunterwitch_bloodpact
if u ask me
the image of the female in white
could be any one at any time
or any place
or it could be a guardian spirit
u never know
ever try call her forth to find out
u might not know a name but the image
can also be use to do such a thing
i meen hell it could work
if u ask me
the image of the female in white
could be any one at any time
or any place
or it could be a guardian spirit
u never know
ever try call her forth to find out
u might not know a name but the image
can also be use to do such a thing
i meen hell it could work
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The Lady in White
Original post: Kath_
2001
Courtship
At some point it becomes difficult to single out individual meetings and experiences. There are so many, over so many years. But after the first meeting with the White Lady, she became a frequent visitor in my dreams. Very often, I would find myself lucid and apparently outside my own self crafted dreamscape, and in her company.
It would be simpler to speak of many of these meetings in a general sense, while isolating some specific items of interest.
My early impression of her was that despite her luminous appearance, that she was a somewhat 'dark' entity. Bear in mind, that this impression comes from a person who was at the time, a freshly *former* christian, still full of certain moral idealisms and dualities and paranoias. Normally when I would meet her, it would be either in the voidian abyss i described before, or in some other relatively unlit setting. In a forest at night comes to mind as another popular venue. It wouldn't be hard to envision that the whole darkened setting was 'her', and the luminous being before me was her shining aspect.
She had an air about her, which hinted at something savage and dangerous, but never did i feel it directed at me. Instead it seemed as though something savage and dangerous within myself was drawn, up out of dark recesses in my psyche, pulled free from repression, unburied and risen up to meet the savage part of her, exalting in the sameness, the sensation of a kindred spirit, bonding deeply, and arousing a less civilized aspect of self from slumber to ardor.
We would interact, wordlessly often, just mingling raw wordless thought and energy. The energies between us entwined, and burned brightly. Self and non-self flowing into and out of each other in an exhilarating bliss. Which when reaching its height, surpassed any physical concept of sensuality or intimacy. the ecstasy was of a spiritual tone, rather than organic, a sort of bliss simultaneously like and unlike sexual intercourse. the intensity and ecstasy would at times reach an intensity which could almost be described as violent or overwhelming, in the best possible sense. And yet in other instances, the communing exemplified a state of perfect meditative calm.
Its difficult to quantify just how regal and 'impressive' she seemed, her personal presence simply oozing power and importance... while simultaneously interacting with me on a level of such complete intimacy and informality. I felt very honored, and my ego was a bit inflated.
2001
Courtship
At some point it becomes difficult to single out individual meetings and experiences. There are so many, over so many years. But after the first meeting with the White Lady, she became a frequent visitor in my dreams. Very often, I would find myself lucid and apparently outside my own self crafted dreamscape, and in her company.
It would be simpler to speak of many of these meetings in a general sense, while isolating some specific items of interest.
My early impression of her was that despite her luminous appearance, that she was a somewhat 'dark' entity. Bear in mind, that this impression comes from a person who was at the time, a freshly *former* christian, still full of certain moral idealisms and dualities and paranoias. Normally when I would meet her, it would be either in the voidian abyss i described before, or in some other relatively unlit setting. In a forest at night comes to mind as another popular venue. It wouldn't be hard to envision that the whole darkened setting was 'her', and the luminous being before me was her shining aspect.
She had an air about her, which hinted at something savage and dangerous, but never did i feel it directed at me. Instead it seemed as though something savage and dangerous within myself was drawn, up out of dark recesses in my psyche, pulled free from repression, unburied and risen up to meet the savage part of her, exalting in the sameness, the sensation of a kindred spirit, bonding deeply, and arousing a less civilized aspect of self from slumber to ardor.
We would interact, wordlessly often, just mingling raw wordless thought and energy. The energies between us entwined, and burned brightly. Self and non-self flowing into and out of each other in an exhilarating bliss. Which when reaching its height, surpassed any physical concept of sensuality or intimacy. the ecstasy was of a spiritual tone, rather than organic, a sort of bliss simultaneously like and unlike sexual intercourse. the intensity and ecstasy would at times reach an intensity which could almost be described as violent or overwhelming, in the best possible sense. And yet in other instances, the communing exemplified a state of perfect meditative calm.
Its difficult to quantify just how regal and 'impressive' she seemed, her personal presence simply oozing power and importance... while simultaneously interacting with me on a level of such complete intimacy and informality. I felt very honored, and my ego was a bit inflated.
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The Lady in White
Original post: Kath_
[QUOTE=Master 27;373324]Thanks for sharing this, Kath.
It's always interesting to hear other people's experiences on this topic.[/QUOTE]
it's difficult to think that I could really do the subject matter justice. what i can write down is just a dim shadow of the actual experiences. still, i'm glad you like it
[QUOTE=bellenigma]You know I thought this thread would be boring, but after this second post about your goddess I'm becoming more and more interested. Of course it could be due to your magnificent writing abilities. You're very concise and descriptive. Anyways, I look forward to hearing more! By the way, I really like what you had to say about the labels and names.[/QUOTE]
well, if i'm concise & descriptive, i'd have to give some credit to the entity i'm writing about, she's rubbed off on me a bit. It's not really what *I* had to say about labels and names though. I mean I agree with what I wrote, but I didn't think of it myself. For a more humble take on this thread, you could think of it as "1001 things I was too dumb to figure out on my own"... eh, that may be a bit too self depreciating for my tastes though, but its a true enough statement.
__
hunterwitch, I suspect you skimmed some...
(don't sweat it, i skim some too
)
[QUOTE=Master 27;373324]Thanks for sharing this, Kath.
It's always interesting to hear other people's experiences on this topic.[/QUOTE]
it's difficult to think that I could really do the subject matter justice. what i can write down is just a dim shadow of the actual experiences. still, i'm glad you like it
[QUOTE=bellenigma]You know I thought this thread would be boring, but after this second post about your goddess I'm becoming more and more interested. Of course it could be due to your magnificent writing abilities. You're very concise and descriptive. Anyways, I look forward to hearing more! By the way, I really like what you had to say about the labels and names.[/QUOTE]
well, if i'm concise & descriptive, i'd have to give some credit to the entity i'm writing about, she's rubbed off on me a bit. It's not really what *I* had to say about labels and names though. I mean I agree with what I wrote, but I didn't think of it myself. For a more humble take on this thread, you could think of it as "1001 things I was too dumb to figure out on my own"... eh, that may be a bit too self depreciating for my tastes though, but its a true enough statement.__
hunterwitch, I suspect you skimmed some...
(don't sweat it, i skim some too
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The Lady in White
Original post: bellenigma
Okay so... what happens next? What's the point to all of these encounters? What does she want with you?
Okay so... what happens next? What's the point to all of these encounters? What does she want with you?