Tips for no-mind technique

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ithaka
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Tips for no-mind technique

Post by ithaka »

Hi Everyone,

I am new to a lot of stuff. I having been reading forums on occult things for about 2 years but i have finally started with reading books. I have started with Liber Null & Psychonaut as i want to begin in Chaos Magic. I have meditated before but not too often and one thing that keeps coming to me and i find quite hard to silence is how i talk to myself within my mind. I don't mean thoughts i mean, i actually talk to myself in my mind as if i were two people. I talk to my ego :P. Now the problem with this is every time i start to get somewhere with meditation my "other self" kicks in by stating something and loses my progress.

Am i just crazy or can i silence "him" with more practise?

Thank you for all the great info i have found on this and the .com website over the years.

Zephyrus
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Tips for no-mind technique

Post by Zephyrus »

There are different ways to silence your ego. You must realize that you are 1, not separate entities. You do have control over your mind. If you have been working magic, you realize that focus is very important. You are trying to go into another state of mind that your conscious may rebel against because it feels it is loosing control. Which it is. Been to a movie house? Remember the few seconds before the previews start? When the house lights go down and your mind is quiet waiting for the show to start? Use that moment, relive it, practice extending it. You choose what thoughts you expect and reject for further examination. You will have to find your own way to accomplish this quieting. But, anyway you do it will take practice and determination.
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ithaka
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Tips for no-mind technique

Post by ithaka »

Thank you Zephyrus, I am continuing with my work in trying to silence my ego and im going to be buying many more books and continuing on my journey.

Thanks again,

Aliga
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Tips for no-mind technique

Post by Aliga »

I kind of have the same problem - it's really hard for me to get my mind to shut the hell up. I've gotten a lot better at silencing my own mind since I started to practice it, but in the meantime, I've found that anytime I'm doing a full-out ritual, I usually have appropriate instrumental music playing in the background. It helps me focus, and keeps my mind from getting bored and interrupting what I'm doing.
A difference that makes no difference, is no difference.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
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ithaka
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Tips for no-mind technique

Post by ithaka »

This may be a little off topic but what kind of rituals have u done Aliga or anyone for that matter? I'm mainly asking newer people since i've been reading liber null it sounds like you really need to have this technique mastered before you really want to start trying anything else.

Aliga
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Tips for no-mind technique

Post by Aliga »

Well, I haven't read Liber Null, and there are only a few techniques I would say I've "mastered"... simply because I'm impatient and I tend to dive headfirst into stuff. I never waited to master one thing before moving on to the next - and I've made plenty of mistakes, but that's how I learn. Someone once said that we learn more from our failures than our successes. But to answer your question, since my first real "lesson book" on magic was Modern Magick, I started with the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram (LBRP) and Middle Pillar Ritual... altering them slightly to fit my own style :P As for more... involved rituals, I've done a couple to banish spirits (my fiance has a tendancy to draw them to her, despite my best efforts), helped a friend with a finding spell, and I'm planning to do one soon that involves calling spirits to bring someone to me.

Perhaps a better example would be back years ago, when I was still very new and before I knew how to avoid certain pitfalls; I used a Goetic demon's sigil in a love spell. Needless to say, that didn't turn out very well... :rolleyes:

To tie it in to the original topic: I find that sigils are great to start out with, since you don't necessarily need to enter that gnostic state (or at least, not for very long). Long rituals are harder, though maybe it's just easier for me to be able to concentrate on a symbol or picture.
A difference that makes no difference, is no difference.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Hail Eris!

padma norbu
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Tips for no-mind technique

Post by padma norbu »

The key is to relax. Sit upright in an Egyptian or Buddha type pose with a naturally straight spine. Touch the tip of your tongue to your palette just behind your front teeth and let your jaw slack. Lay your hands upward, relaxed on your legs. Make everything relaxed. Gaze at a point on the wall and then sort of blur your vision so you're not really looking at anything, just in a general direction, not fixated on anything. Now just sit and relax. Don't worry about anything. If you start talking in your head, just ignore it and focus on your breath. You can't hold 2 things in your mind at once. Keep going back to your breath. Eventually, you will be pretty damn blank and not thinking about your breath, either. The reason sitting up straight and relaxing is important is because it basically balances you in a "nothing" sort of state, almost like floating in saltwater. By relaxing and not worrying, choosing to focus on breath instead of thoughts, you are not fixating and struggling. My guru says that when people come up to him and say, "Oh, but I can't relax! I'm very tense and thoughts keep coming, what can I do?!" he responds, "You relax." Obsessing and trying to get there faster only makes it worse. I believe this is similar to the neither-neither and doesn't matter principle which is necessary in effecting magick. I suppose the important thing is to decide once and for all that you know it works. That knowledge creates a kind of faith where you begin to act on autopilot just as you know and have faith you can walk down the street, eat food or take a crap. Remember, all of these things were once traumatic events when you were a little baby. You had to learn that walking, eating and pooping are not scary and you can do them naturally. Like riding a bike, that is what magick is.

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Kath
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Tips for no-mind technique

Post by Kath »

hmm, i thought this post would be about Mushin.

to silence the mind, you simply must move the anchor of your consciousness (for the beginner, it might be useful to think of this as just your internal dialog, but don't get permanently attached to that idea) into the area of mind which is already silent ;)

when you try to silence your thoughts, part of you is thinking about trying not to think, part of you hears the dog barking across the street and your left toe itching, part of you is frustrated because you're still thinking, part of you is redoubling your efforts, etc. if you focus on your breathing or some other guided technique, then you can minimize some of these to a degree. But ultimately there is another part to your mind. there is a part which is aware of all of this, the "silent observer" which simple perceives your own thoughts, and the dog and the toe and your breathing and everything else, silently, passively, without any reaction or counter-thought. It is simply awareness, perception, without being an active participant in 'thinking' or reacting or processing, it is awareness without thought. way in the back of the mind, where even your preconscious thoughts are being perceived and known, silently, impassively, by the level of mind which is sort of a meta-conscious awareness. move the focus of your mind into the silent observer.

one trick for doing this is to imagine that you have no head. nothing gory or threatening, just imagine that you have no head, no central focal point for your mind. Then imagine that instead of a head, that everything around you is your head. your room, other people, the landscape, etc. imagine that all of this IS your head. you're not thinking about any of this, you're simply silently aware. actually this exercise tackles a little bit more than just accessing the silent observer part of the mind, but it's really simple and if you focus on it well it can be a neat meditation.

don't assume meditation is all about achieving just one particular state of consciousness. in reality there are many states of consciousness which people do not normally access. meditation, ideally, over time, should be more of an exploration of them, to understand all that is self, and conversely all that is not self, and then ultimately whether or not there is any 'not self'. Among other goals... and there are many approaches. If zeroing out your thoughts isn't working, try focusing absolutely and totally on one singular thing to the exclusion of all else. there are other methods. you can even use hypnosis/trance as a gateway to effective meditation. there's no 'one way', not even a 'right way', put in the time & effort, read up, be creative and open minded, know that you 'can do' whatever you truly wish to do.
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