About the astral treavel - is it an out of body experience ?

[Bozkurt]

I have always thought that the Astral Travel or the Astral Projection is an out of the body experience. But recently I was told that this is not an out of the body experience at all but it's a state of trans in which you only visualize getting out of the body and rove with the help of the unconscious.
I personally think that it's not an out of the body experience and it's only in our mind because the preparation for the astral projection/travel includes exploring and remembering the environment around us (especially the room where we do it) with the help of many methods (putting different smells on different parts of the house for example in order to make a connection with the unconscious). Personally I have never experienced an astral projection/travel, but I have experienced many times lucid dreams and I think astral projection/travel is actually getting into lucid dream consciously which begins with visualizing the astral body separating from the physic body.
Knowing that you may protest and disagree with me, I would like to ask you for your opinion although.
(Sorry if I have made mistakes...I'm not an native English speaker)

[Desecrated]

Like always, there are 3 theories.

The astral world is real and we really travel there.
The astral world is partly real and we partly travel there.
The astral world is completely internal and we go nowhere.

I kinda like the last two.

[Bozkurt]

I kinda don't understand the second theory [oh]

[Desecrated]

I kinda don't understand the second theory [oh]

Well, let say dreams. We are told that they are "not real". And yet in almost every culture one earth you have stories about dreams coming true, about dreams being a sign of things to come, of people sharing the same dream.

That last one is the one we are interested in here. How can that happen? How can two people have the same dream at the same time if there is no connection between their brains?
Both of them are in their own bodies, they don't really travel anywhere and yet their mind is drawn toward the same thing. It's almost like this dream exist on it's own and both of them are experiencing it.
So the dream is both real, and a dream, and they both travel to it, and yet they don't.

[Desecrated]

:Off topic:

Concerning lucid dreams and astral projection.
They seem to be related to each other, but they are not the same. I don't know if this explanation will help, but anyway:
When we are awake we can move our arms, BUT we also move our arms when we are asleep. If we look into the brain I'm pretty sure the movement would be activated in about the same area, so they are similar yet different. One is a conscious movement and one is a unconscious movement.

Astral projection is a little bit like a conscious dream. You start out awake and then you go into this state. Now, this is different from just thinking. I can daydream and do the dishes at the same time, I can not astral project and do the dishes at the same time. When I project I loose the ability to move my body.

Lucid dreaming seems to be the opposite thing. In this state we fall asleep, we loose our ability to consciously move our body and we have a dream, but THEN we become conscious of it.

So astral projection is conscious dreaming and lucid dreaming is dreaming consciously.

[Bozkurt]

Oh, now I understand. Thanks for the explanation!
I think there are a lot of options of this dream phenomena to happen, but before giving any opinion I have to think a lot on it.

[CCoburn]

Some other posts were added when I typed this,
and I haven't read them, anyways.

Ordinary dreams it seems occur in the inner dimensions, or
the microcosmic 4D Universe that exists "within".

An OBE occurs in the external 4D reality. But in your astral
form, you would be transparent to the physical world.

A true astral projection could be an experience in a
superimposed, and transparent reality to this one.
They exist simultaneously, in the same 4D space but don't overly
conflict with one another. Or AP could also be an experience
with any number of non-physical realms that creation has manifested.

[fraterai]

The astral world is real and we really travel there.
The astral world is partly real and we partly travel there.
The astral world is completely internal and we go nowhere.

I also thought it was the last two until I got verifiable information from dreams, I had to go with the first

Edit: I guess 2 still works

[corvidus]

I have always thought that the Astral Travel or the Astral Projection is an out of the body experience. But recently I was told that this is not an out of the body experience at all but it's a state of trans in which you only visualize getting out of the body and rove with the help of the unconscious.

I've personally experienced both projection, as well as projection while remaining in the body -- which is more like "opening up" to the astral.

In my experience, dreams and lucid dreams are the "lower astral". They're connected to the astral as much as your conscious mind is.

But, I see it as happening both of two waus: everything is true, and everything is a hallucination!

[CCoburn]

I've had a few Lucid dreams in my life, had one OBE that was
exceptionally unique, and was never able to successfully reproduce.
And a couple other OBEs where my astral body appeared
anthropomorphic in form.

Never put any effort into astral travel, so I only have experience
with the OBEs, and Lucid Dreams.

Cheers

[Bozkurt]

-When we are awake we can move our arms, BUT we also move our arms when we are asleep...

- You start out awake and then you go into this state. Now, this is different from just thinking. I can daydream and do the dishes at the same time, I can not astral project and do the dishes at the same time. When I project I loose the ability to move my body...

-Lucid dreaming seems to be the opposite thing...

-So astral projection is conscious dreaming and lucid dreaming is dreaming consciously.

- Often the brain paralyzes the body in order to prevent it from self-harming/injuring when we dream, so while dreaming our body is very often paralyzed and we can't move - just as the astral projection/travel.

- Exactly !

- Lucid dreams are almost the same. As you said - Lucid dreaming is getting conscious about your dream, getting conscious for that you are dreaming and Astral projection/travel is getting into a state of Lucid dream consciously - by your conscious will. In Lucid dreams we create whatever we want with visualizing but in Astral projection/travel we begin the projection/travel with visualizing that we're getting out of our body and also we visualize the room where is our body automatically - this is the all difference. Knowing that, the other time you travel in the ''Astral'' try to create something - you will manage to create whatever you want and this will be the proof for you that Astral travel and Lucid dreaming is the same. Just give it a try and tell us your experience.
A very rich man who is skeptic about astral projection have told that he will give a one million dollars to the one who travels in the Astral and answers to his 60 questions completely correct - questions about the place of some thing etc. And the highest number/score of the correct answers to these 60 questions was 11 - this score was a real proof that there is nothing like ''Astral projection/travel'' but only visualizing in a state of trans or a Lucid dream.

- And what is the difference ?

[Bozkurt]

I kinda don't understand the second theory [oh]

Well, let say dreams. We are told that they are "not real". And yet in almost every culture one earth you have stories about dreams coming true, about dreams being a sign of things to come, of people sharing the same dream.

That last one is the one we are interested in here. How can that happen? How can two people have the same dream at the same time if there is no connection between their brains?

It's called telepathy.
Also I think you can ''send'' someone a dream.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

In my Tradition and experience , over many years...

Astral body , is different from dreaming body...

And it is your Daemon , as Plato called it , which is used to "forward" a dream...

All different energy bodies , or assistants , as in the daemon / deamonn ( as we know it's name )... [wink]