Immanence and layers of truth perception

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babakoto_pazuzu
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Immanence and layers of truth perception

Post by babakoto_pazuzu »

There is no world of forms. There are no hidden layers of the world that we live in. We inhabit a plane of pure immanence, and everything that exists is constantly present to us. However, there are levels of abstraction that are necessary in the functioning of our apprehension of phenomena as conscious bodies of matter in the world of immanence. I am interested in extracting the ability to use symbols in a way that can allow me to traverse these levels of abstraction in new ways and break out of established habits of my understanding. Eroding stagnant borders between layers of truth is my primary long term goal in life and I am interested in using magic for this purpose. I can expand on this theory later.

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Re: Immanence and layers of truth perception

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>everything that exists is constantly present to us

I have trouble recalling particular events. Eventually some memories come back.

> there are levels of abstraction that are necessary

Abstract concepts require higher mental frequencies/subplanes but there are other forms of abstraction such as near death experiences during surgery.

>apprehension of phenomena as conscious bodies of matter

My physical body operates quite well with very little input from my consciousness - digestion, blood pressure, balance etc.

For perhaps 50 000 years the intelligence that operates the physical/etheric body in most humans has been sub-conscious. Just as well as it releases attention for more difficult skills.

Intuition however does not seem to operate consciously and in most humans, if it operates, it is super-conscious - perhaps better considered as awareness.

> break out of established habits of my understanding

This is an important objective as we are trained to think along particular lines.

Understanding (seeing what stands under) can be difficult and is easier with transcendental perception such as intuition.

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WildWolf
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Re: Immanence and layers of truth perception

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Materialism....that is what your proposing in the post? It is a relatively modern view....one that I have not found particularly accurate IME. Your last part..... about removing layers of stagnation between Truth....I think this is worthwhile.....but also profound to the degree, that it requires a stable foundation. Staring at the sun....

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Re: Immanence and layers of truth perception

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WildWolf wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 4:10 am Materialism....that is what your proposing in the post? It is a relatively modern view....one that I have not found particularly accurate IME. Your last part..... about removing layers of stagnation between Truth....I think this is worthwhile.....but also profound to the degree, that it requires a stable foundation. Staring at the sun....
It's not modern, it's postmodern. Capitalism has demonstrated that divinity is reducible to the physical substrate on which it acts. Anything that spiritual systems strive to keep sacred has become homogenous with secular material through its market exchange value, which is now much more obvious than ever with constantly expanding markets across the world, expedited by the internet and miscegenation of formerly incongruous cultures.

However, this does not mean that all matter is isomorphic and perfectly interchangeable. Again, there are layers of truth. Information exchange value operates on a different stratum than crude ore exchange value. This gets very complicated and I can't hope to represent such a broad concept in a forum post, but post-structuralist theorists have already done (and are still doing) a lot of work on this, namely Baudrillard, Deleuze, Guattari, Foucault, etc.

The reason I've come around to magic relates to the work of Deleuze and Guattari specifically. Pure asignifying culture is impossible. Any erosion of symbolic regimes is always accompanied by a generation of new symbolic links. This is evident in internet protocols, where human linguistic signifiers have become replaced by URLs, cryptographic hashes, memory pointers, and so on. This example has been pointed out by Nick Land's relatively recent whitepaper called Crypto Current (more on him later).

Given this process of semiotic reemergence over cultural motion (which Deleuze and Guattari term deterritorialization and reterritorialization) I'm interested in intentionally enacting this process over my life in a relatively radical way. Genesis P-Orridge seems to have had a similar intention. The Cybernetic Culture Research Unit (CCRU) of Warwick University, led by Nick Land, is a more literal example of this Deleuzian radicalism, as they became very involved with magic and theosophy until they fell apart. I think this happened as a result of drug abuse and general recklessness. Either way, I'm always looking for new ways to liberate desire and expand creativity so I'd like to see for myself whether magic is an effective means of accomplishing this. I will try to avoid the pitfalls of the CCRU.
Last edited by babakoto_pazuzu on Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:54 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Immanence and layers of truth perception

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It has taken a long time for me to reach this point of symbolic exploration. I was very interested in this in the past. When I was a teenager I made a few posts on here under the name Shamash. Later on I joined the Russian Orthodox Church and abandoned occult stuff completely. I did everything I could to conform my entire life to the church and was experimenting with monasticism for a few years until I had a series of extreme psychotic episodes, was diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder, and abandoned symbolism entirely. I became a committed atheist and nietzschean and have been living a completely secular life. I am only now interested in the occult again because I am an artist and I think that symbolism can be a way of cultivating creativity and turning one's everyday life into a work of art, which can have the greater effect of accelerating the expressive motion of general culture.

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Re: Immanence and layers of truth perception

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babakoto_pazuzu wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:48 am It has taken a long time for me to reach this point of symbolic exploration. I was very interested in this in the past. When I was a teenager I made a few posts on here under the name Shamash. Later on I joined the Russian Orthodox Church and abandoned occult stuff completely. I did everything I could to conform my entire life to the church and was experimenting with monasticism for a few years until I had a series of extreme psychotic episodes, was diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder, and abandoned symbolism entirely. I became a committed atheist and nietzschean and have been living a completely secular life. I am only now interested in the occult again because I am an artist and I think that symbolism can be a way of cultivating creativity and turning one's everyday life into a work of art, which can have the greater effect of accelerating the expressive motion of general culture.
The occult can definitely be useful as an artist....moving into altered states (Dreams, Drugs, Manifest Experiences.....etc) to receive inspiration and casting for Growth. Its challenging work...and if you wish to "stretch" and "shift" yourself in order to attain higher levels of Artistic Expression.....its a wild and fun journey....just be sure to have a solid foundation....so that you can come back to the physical. More than a few people have gotten lost in these realms....and even if your careful....the path will drop challenges on your doorstep.

Poetry, Dance, Essays...etc. Scarlet Imprint has done a few books on the topic. Resonances by Carl Abrahamsson looks interesting. Not sure how deep your background in the occult is....but there's quite few ways, to go about bringing things into play.

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Re: Immanence and layers of truth perception

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WildWolf wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:38 am
babakoto_pazuzu wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:48 am It has taken a long time for me to reach this point of symbolic exploration. I was very interested in this in the past. When I was a teenager I made a few posts on here under the name Shamash. Later on I joined the Russian Orthodox Church and abandoned occult stuff completely. I did everything I could to conform my entire life to the church and was experimenting with monasticism for a few years until I had a series of extreme psychotic episodes, was diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder, and abandoned symbolism entirely. I became a committed atheist and nietzschean and have been living a completely secular life. I am only now interested in the occult again because I am an artist and I think that symbolism can be a way of cultivating creativity and turning one's everyday life into a work of art, which can have the greater effect of accelerating the expressive motion of general culture.
The occult can definitely be useful as an artist....moving into altered states (Dreams, Drugs, Manifest Experiences.....etc) to receive inspiration and casting for Growth. Its challenging work...and if you wish to "stretch" and "shift" yourself in order to attain higher levels of Artistic Expression.....its a wild and fun journey....just be sure to have a solid foundation....so that you can come back to the physical. More than a few people have gotten lost in these realms....and even if your careful....the path will drop challenges on your doorstep.

Poetry, Dance, Essays...etc. Scarlet Imprint has done a few books on the topic. Resonances by Carl Abrahamsson looks interesting. Not sure how deep your background in the occult is....but there's quite few ways, to go about bringing things into play.
I have had enough altered states to inspire me for the rest of my life. Schizoaffective disorder makes it very easy to experience them. What I'm searching for at the moment is the opposite: a ground that can prevent me from entering altered states. My therapist strongly encouraged having a regular routine and a more balanced life. I generally tend toward chaos and spontaneity so I'm working at being more stable.

My reason for becoming interested in the occult again isnt necessarily to get inspiration but rather to learn new ways of expressing creativity and steering it in different directions in an intentional way. I think this is something that symbols are very useful for.

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Re: Immanence and layers of truth perception

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babakoto_pazuzu wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:11 am
WildWolf wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:38 am
babakoto_pazuzu wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:48 am It has taken a long time for me to reach this point of symbolic exploration. I was very interested in this in the past. When I was a teenager I made a few posts on here under the name Shamash. Later on I joined the Russian Orthodox Church and abandoned occult stuff completely. I did everything I could to conform my entire life to the church and was experimenting with monasticism for a few years until I had a series of extreme psychotic episodes, was diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder, and abandoned symbolism entirely. I became a committed atheist and nietzschean and have been living a completely secular life. I am only now interested in the occult again because I am an artist and I think that symbolism can be a way of cultivating creativity and turning one's everyday life into a work of art, which can have the greater effect of accelerating the expressive motion of general culture.
The occult can definitely be useful as an artist....moving into altered states (Dreams, Drugs, Manifest Experiences.....etc) to receive inspiration and casting for Growth. Its challenging work...and if you wish to "stretch" and "shift" yourself in order to attain higher levels of Artistic Expression.....its a wild and fun journey....just be sure to have a solid foundation....so that you can come back to the physical. More than a few people have gotten lost in these realms....and even if your careful....the path will drop challenges on your doorstep.

Poetry, Dance, Essays...etc. Scarlet Imprint has done a few books on the topic. Resonances by Carl Abrahamsson looks interesting. Not sure how deep your background in the occult is....but there's quite few ways, to go about bringing things into play.
I have had enough altered states to inspire me for the rest of my life. Schizoaffective disorder makes it very easy to experience them. What I'm searching for at the moment is the opposite: a ground that can prevent me from entering altered states. My therapist strongly encouraged having a regular routine and a more balanced life. I generally tend toward chaos and spontaneity so I'm working at being more stable.

My reason for becoming interested in the occult again isnt necessarily to get inspiration but rather to learn new ways of expressing creativity and steering it in different directions in an intentional way. I think this is something that symbols are very useful for.


If your interested in symbols and directing intent....Sigil Magick may be something in which you find value. Naturally, you can create sigils for Stability and Creativity. Chaos Magick is known for inspiring this craft and many books have been written on the topic....you can also find a ton of free videos on the net.

Magick of any kind can be highly "activating"....so if you have a history of imbalance....defintiely spend a good deal of time on "solidifying" your energy.

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Re: Immanence and layers of truth perception

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WildWolf wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:37 am
babakoto_pazuzu wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:11 am
WildWolf wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:38 am

The occult can definitely be useful as an artist....moving into altered states (Dreams, Drugs, Manifest Experiences.....etc) to receive inspiration and casting for Growth. Its challenging work...and if you wish to "stretch" and "shift" yourself in order to attain higher levels of Artistic Expression.....its a wild and fun journey....just be sure to have a solid foundation....so that you can come back to the physical. More than a few people have gotten lost in these realms....and even if your careful....the path will drop challenges on your doorstep.

Poetry, Dance, Essays...etc. Scarlet Imprint has done a few books on the topic. Resonances by Carl Abrahamsson looks interesting. Not sure how deep your background in the occult is....but there's quite few ways, to go about bringing things into play.
I have had enough altered states to inspire me for the rest of my life. Schizoaffective disorder makes it very easy to experience them. What I'm searching for at the moment is the opposite: a ground that can prevent me from entering altered states. My therapist strongly encouraged having a regular routine and a more balanced life. I generally tend toward chaos and spontaneity so I'm working at being more stable.

My reason for becoming interested in the occult again isnt necessarily to get inspiration but rather to learn new ways of expressing creativity and steering it in different directions in an intentional way. I think this is something that symbols are very useful for.


If your interested in symbols and directing intent....Sigil Magick may be something in which you find value. Naturally, you can create sigils for Stability and Creativity. Chaos Magick is known for inspiring this craft and many books have been written on the topic....you can also find a ton of free videos on the net.

Magick of any kind can be highly "activating"....so if you have a history of imbalance....defintiely spend a good deal of time on "solidifying" your energy.
Multiple people have recommended that I look into chaos magick. It seems to align with what I'm looking for, but for the moment I'm reading Barrett's Magus and Agrippa. I also ordered the Book of the Black Dragon (both volumes) because the few passages that I've been able to find online seem extremely interesting to me. Other books I'd like to read are the Secret Doctrine by Blavatsky, Thee Psychick Bible, De Magia by Giordano Bruno, and Lemuria by Wisher Cervé. This is basically my reading list at the moment, but it seemed appropriate to begin with Barrett.

I also familiarized myself with gnosticism when I was a teenager. I read many of the Nag Hammadi texts as well as the Pistis Sofia, and I've read the majority of the Bible (translated from the Septuagint, not the Masoretic text; I've read the four gospels and the psalms hundreds of times).

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Re: Immanence and layers of truth perception

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I am not at all sure that people with schizoaffective disorder should be practising any form of magic and particularly not chaos magic.

Better to get your own house in order before inviting possibly predatory visitors

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Re: Immanence and layers of truth perception

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Amor wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 12:08 am I am not at all sure that people with schizoaffective disorder should be practising any form of magic and particularly not chaos magic.

Better to get your own house in order before inviting possibly predatory visitors
Too bad, the visitors forced their way in a long time ago. I suggest you read capitalism and schizophrenia by deleuze and guattari if you'd like to know why im interested in this.

Chaos magic might not be what im looking for. I dont know because i know nothing about it. I think it's possible that i will have to invent my own form of magic that may not be similar to what already exists, but i will study what there is in order to find out if that will be necessary.

Edit: the writings of the CCRU may also be a helpful example of what i am trying to accomplish. You can find many of them at ccru.net. The book Cyclonopedia by Reza Negarestani is also part of it.

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Re: Immanence and layers of truth perception

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Basically my goal in life is to catalyze the construction of new rhizomatic symbolizing systems within general culture, using whatever tools are available. Partially, this means synthesizing elements of diverse traditions and aspects of life. It also means profaning anything and everything that is sacred in order to allow novel hierarchies to structure themselves in an organic and continuous flux. My role, as i diagnose it, is to be an agent of this process through active and intentional creation of new flows. Im studying magic so that I can extract elements from it and utilize them in new ways. I'm not interested in practicing magic in ways that has been done by others except for learning purposes. As I continue to study it, i intend to generate new ways of applying magical semiologies to different strata.

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Re: Immanence and layers of truth perception

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This video probably explains it a little more clearly than I can

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TE7HFBzf-w

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Re: Immanence and layers of truth perception

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I'm not trying to sound pretentious by using post structuralist jargon, but I'm also not very good at explaining concepts using informal language. In the simplest terms possible, i think that it might be possible for this kind of philosophy to interact with magic in an interesting way, and I'm not the first person who has had this idea. Im just trying it out for myself. I expect that it will be a long and slow but insightful journey.

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Re: Immanence and layers of truth perception

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Magic is performed by mages - even as every day actions.

Humans that cannot control their thoughts are not mages and are very easily misled

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Re: Immanence and layers of truth perception

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My working theory at the moment, and this is tentative, is that magic once worked through spirits that behaved in a certain way, which was mapped out by the magi who communicated with these spirits. I very seriously doubt that the rituals used by Agrippa and Dee would work for a person living in the current century, at least as a general rule. It would make no sense to try most of them. But that doesn't mean that it didn't work for Agrippa and his contemporaries. My theory is that magic is a craft that must change and adapt to new situations in order to achieve its goals, those goals also being subject to change, and that it is an atheistic and rhizomatic craft that exists to deterritorialize existing truth structures. I may be mistaken about this initial impression of the purpose of magic, but that's why im studying it.

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Re: Immanence and layers of truth perception

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Amor wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 2:10 am Magic is performed by mages - even as every day actions.

Humans that cannot control their thoughts are not mages and are very easily misled
You're not a mage and you don't know anything. I'm only interested in talking to people who are capable of having an intelligent conversation.

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Re: Immanence and layers of truth perception

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Also, i suspect that you havent even given my posts here anything beyond a cursory glance and that you're making judgments based on your misunderstandings of psychology, which gives me another reason to dismiss your opinions.

Additionally, and I truly mean this, thinking you're a mage does not give you any credentials.

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Re: Immanence and layers of truth perception

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That's a hefty reading list.....sounds like you have a journey ahead....good luck in your training. PM if you'd like any help.

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Re: Immanence and layers of truth perception

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WildWolf wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:02 am That's a hefty reading list.....sounds like you have a journey ahead....good luck in your training. PM if you'd like any help.
Thank you for the offer, I will make sure to remember!

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