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Original post: Specktackular

[QUOTE=DropAndRiver]Perhaps the sigil Aodh consumed will act as a walkie talkie that will enable Orobas to give visions. This could be usually be used to less than pleasant ends, but I wouldn't jump to conclusions.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps, but is it really necessary? These odd requests are obviously some form of magickal link. Not sure if I'd do anything a "demon" requested of me. Especially unquestioningly.

Original post: DropAndRiver

Is it needed to summon demons? No, but we love to do it. Many spirits like to use similar methods and mediums even though they can contact us directly. Just because they are demons, we can't assume they don't like to try new things and have fun (that is what made them demons in the first place lol).

Original post: Specktackular

[QUOTE=DropAndRiver]Is it needed to summon demons? No, but we love to do it. Many spirits like to use similar methods and mediums even though they can contact us directly. Just because they are demons, we can't assume they don't like to try new things and have fun (that is what made them demons in the first place lol).[/QUOTE]
We "love to do" what? Swallow sigils?

Original post: DropAndRiver

Do things that are contrary to what others suppose to be our nature. What I was trying to say was that we can't really know what Orobas intend by telling Aodh to swallow the sigil because spirits don't always stick to their classic description. The only way to know is to ask.

PS: I was directing the word "it" to the word "summon".

Original post: Specktackular

[QUOTE=DropAndRiver]The only way to know is to ask.[/QUOTE] Which apparently, he didn't, based on the transcription he posted. That's what I was asking in the first place, yo. See posts #23 and #25.

Original post: Aodh

It's out of my system when I next void so if there were any bad effects all I'd have to do is a banishing ritual, cut any possible links, and take a laxative and/or diuretic. Plus, I figured it was more likely because it allowed him to have a small connection to me for a while which I'd assume would be a nice thing seeing as life as a human and life as an incorporeal being is quite diff. and he could use it to pick up on emotions etc. if he wanted. He was quite nice otherwise so it never really crossed my mind to ask nor care. What's he going to do, kill me for no reason? I mean really...

Oh, just to let you know. I'd actually thought of that as a method of dispersing his energy within me before the ritual and when he asked me to do it, he added, like you thought of before. Maybe that's what cleared up my sickness

Original post: magickingdl

I hope the crystal shows you something.

Original post: promethius

Aodh.Hello!Well my question is simple.Did you get the final results from the evocation yet?I am sure you had a main reason to give orobas from the ritual.And if not,are you prepared to punish the spirit?

Original post: Aodh

First of all, Orobas' main abilities lie in his ability to see the past, future, an dpresent. (Clairvoyance more or less but really due to time parameters, the astral, and his incorporeal nature I don't see it as as big a task as it sounds, for him at least) I asked him to charge a crystal with the ability to aid me in clairvoyance which he did and has been fairly helpful. And I asked him a simple question which he gave an answer in which I have to wait till next week in order to find out the validity of.

Currently I've realized he may be very right as he said wait until the 29th. The 29th is next Saturday. Not thinking, I asked theiend who doesn't check their email that often if they wanted to go to the movies this Monday. If they get it late, they'll probably vouch for next Saturday. And one of the flashes from the crystal was me making out with someone in a movie theater

Second of all, it is my belief that he healed me. Plus he's a nice guy. Plus he and the other Goetics get bad raps. Plus I'm not 'punishing' an entity which if aggravated could kick my astral-ass =|

Original post: DropAndRiver

Don't get me started on spirit ethics (Demons are people too ya' know! Well, not really but...).

Orobas is probably the best place to start with many people. If I ever use a Goetic spirit, he would be the one I would call upon. I am excited to see if the vision manifests. Congratulations on such a successful summoning!

Orobas backwards is Saboro, which would really be a good name for a beer company. I am just saying...

Original post: Specktackular

[QUOTE=Aodh]What's he going to do, kill me for no reason? I mean really...[/QUOTE]
No, not kill you-- why would he do that? Based on what I've read, all any entity would really want to do is get control and co-opt you perhaps, since you are a cluster of selves fighting for control, anyway, until you realize your True Will. Obsession, possession, whatever.

Original post: magickingdl

I doubt the entities have any real use for us, except to sap energy from us; harmlessly, in most cases. The danger may lie in allowing or letting the entity sap too much energy from us, or in allowing them to sap our energy uncontrollably.

I believe that in exchange for sapping our energy, they grant us our wishes ... and, the energy they use to achieve our requests comes from us. Therefore, the energy that drives our requests and wishes is transferred to these entities. The energy we release to these entities already contains the information they need to understand our requests.

Original post: BrotherM

[QUOTE=magickingdl]I doubt the entities have any real use for us, except to sap energy from us; harmlessly, in most cases. The danger may lie in allowing or letting the entity sap too much energy from us, or in allowing them to sap our energy uncontrollably.

I believe that in exchange for sapping our energy, they grant us our wishes ... and, the energy they use to achieve our requests comes from us. Therefore, the energy that drives our requests and wishes is transferred to these entities. The energy we release to these entities already contains the information they need to understand our requests.[/QUOTE]
Well, if that is the case summon Asteroth and ask a few favours? What's the worst that can happen?

Guys, seriously, Orobas has a good name for beginners and there are some other Goetics that may have a good temperment but there are also some nasty ass ones out there that will hammer you if they can. People I know, and I have witnessed first hand, have been possessed by Goetics (Marchosias) and that is just not good. It also took a bit more than a laxative and a banishing ritual to get rid of him BTW. Bad things can and do happen when farking with the spirit world no matter how harmonious or happy happy joy joy you pretend to be. It seems that some people need a good clubbing before they brighten to idea of how serious an evocation can be.

Let us not try to assume that we can fathom the minds (?) of demons, it is a very easy way to get burnt.

On a lighter note, I'm glad that your evocation is working Aodh and that you are getting the results that you were after.

BrotherM

Original post: Aodh

Despite my disagreement with the 'since you're just a cluster of selves anyway.' and my disbelief in a concept such as the 'True Will' I do agree that that is a possibility. But on the other hand, just because I banish and make sure not to eat any sigils, these beings really could do any of that if they wanted to or had a reason.

And BrotherM, sorry about my nonchalant mention of laxative and a banishing but I was just giving an example of how to remove his energies from my system directly (in the case of the sigil) because that's what wasexperiences (hence why I acted the way I did) if you treat them well and they're treating you well, unless they're just holding a grudge, they'll do little more than bark. Unless they're just incorporeal assholes

Original post: Specktackular

But on the other hand, just because I banish and make sure not to eat any sigils, these beings really could do any of that if they wanted to or had a reason.

Aodh, I don't know that these beings could do that if they wanted. As I understand it, spirits are mindstuff. Negative attitudes you currently possess are the result of some demon that was given life in your mind at some point in the past. When similar situations arise in the future, the demon takes control to a certain extent. The Goetia are, like the ToL, typical of consciousness evolution from negative existence to physical manifestation. Just like there are 10 basic faces of "God" (you), there are 72 Goetic demons and Angels (not sure how they come up with the number 72, though, but I'm sure there is a logical reason). Check out what Kch and others have written about the Abyss and the evil flower that grows in the heart of every man on this thread: http://occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=11755

Original post: Aodh

Looks like I have a date for the 29th. We'll see how that works out.

Original post: magickingdl

I'm not entirely sure why some people have positive experiences while others have negative experiences with the very same entities. There may be some energy interaction with the entity that causes a unique experience for each person.

Original post: Grab

Too much pride makes the demon sour?

Original post: Marquise De Sade

did u really ingest his sigil?

Original post: LucianAccendus

hehehe...Grab...too much pride makes a demon I couldn't resist!

Original post: Rywads

Yum, tasty SABORO.... now with less carbs!

It is written that Orobas will befriend some occultists and help them... and one of the classic texts says he will often appear "speaking of the divine essence" - I want to learn what he can teach me :>

-Rywads

Original post: Aodh

[QUOTE=Marquise De Sade]did u really ingest his sigil?[/QUOTE] First I soaked it in the tea I had with me which was still hot which dissolved most of the ink. I drank the tea. Then I chewed on it (the paper which the sigil had been on) for a while and swallowed.

Original post: hungrykitty

[QUOTE=Aodh]First I soaked it in the tea I had with me which was still hot which dissolved most of the ink. I drank the tea. Then I chewed on it (the paper which the sigil had been on) for a while and swallowed.[/QUOTE]
EWWWWW!!! UGH! ACK!

I'd carve it in cookie dough, bake an eat.

Original post: Aodh

[QUOTE=hungrykitty]EWWWWW!!! UGH! ACK!

I'd carve it in cookie dough, bake an eat.[/QUOTE]
Well, he said 'like you thought of before' and that's the way I thought of before the summoning A batch of Orobas cookies sounds good though and I'll have to try that with peanut butter cookies or summat soon.

Original post: Nero

Alright, this might upset some people but I have to go against the grain and ask what were you thinking?

Congrats on a successful evocation but how in the world do you know it was Orobas? You do not list in your transcript that you tested him to check his identity. Did you do this and just leave it out of the post? I have tried to contact a very specific spirit before and something "else" showed up instead. You cannot just assume it was him, not saying it wasn't but you need to cover you ass. It is only good form.

Now you actually ingested the sigil without asking why he wanted you to do this? Lon's book does list a successful interaction with Orobas, but if you keep reading you see a not so successful encounter with the same spirit. Actually it was the spirits sigil that caused all the problems!!!
Maybe you will be ok and maybe you won't but if things do start to go south a simple ex-lax and a banishing ritual is not gonna clear things up. If you really believe that then Orobas is already having an effect upon you.

Aodh wrote: Orobas: And why should I do this?
Me: Because I bind you to do so.
Orobas: In who's name may I ask?
Me: In my own.

Did it not occur to you to command the spirit with the power of the divine names? If that is not what you groove on you still could have used in the name of Apollo since you have an affinity for that form.

Me: Thank you, that is all for today, you may leave..
Orobas: Oh, so you assume I wish you to do nothing?
Me: Well, it was quite a small request and i just assumed you'd tell me, sorry. What is it?
Orobas: That you ingest my sigil, as you thought of before this summoning.
Me: It shall be done.
Orobas: Thank you, I shall leave you now.

It is perfectly ok to command the spirit to obey in the name of the divine as you see it. You do not have to wheel and deal with them. I am not saying it is ok to mistreat demons or any spirits because it is not, but you do not have to obey them to get what you want. You as a magician have the power to command. If you want to offer the spirit a prize then do so, but make sure it is on your terms and not theirs.

I am not trying to preach and I am not trying to tell you your journey. I am just pointing out some things as I see them. Take them as you will.