Original post: Otto von Skar
Yes, in order to really perform magick, one must wrap himself in the ritual itself with every part of his being and then, conversly, the ultimate result will be all the more powerful. Ceremony and ritual helps to focus Will into a productive direction; for the beginning magician, this is essential.
Magick without the Ceremony?
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Magick without the Ceremony?
Original post: Frater Manjet
It may seem contradictory that we construct ceremony and ritual to acheive a goal while at the same time avoiding this "lust for result". This is not so conflicting as it may appear.
A musician may well have an intent behind a composition but, when it comes to the actual performance, there is a point where the "thinking" stops and being in the moment of the music begins. Any one who has ever experienced this knows what I am saying. Even athletes have a "goal" and desired result, but in the moment of the actual play thinking stops and all that exists is the moment of the action. It is very common that an athlete will "choke" if they think too much on the desired result. The act of ceremony and ritual have this same sense, to me, of being "in the zone" so to speak.
When I am in ceremony directed at acheiving a specific goal it is part of my intent but no longer my focus if that makes sense. As the musician, while performing, is in the music I am in the magick.
I will add that the "training" aspect of symbol and iconic language help in detaching from said "lust of result". Ceremony and ritual are in this way self strengthening and self sustaining. The more you work ceremony and ritual the less you "think" about it; the more you just experience it in the moment.
My most effective operations are in this "zone". While my intent remains intact my desire for the result takes a backseat as I allow myself to be absorbed in the moment. Nothing exists outside of the act; not even the outcome. In our last conversation I AM described it as a very Zen-like state. I have to agree completely in this regard.
Om A Piap (210/3)
It may seem contradictory that we construct ceremony and ritual to acheive a goal while at the same time avoiding this "lust for result". This is not so conflicting as it may appear.
A musician may well have an intent behind a composition but, when it comes to the actual performance, there is a point where the "thinking" stops and being in the moment of the music begins. Any one who has ever experienced this knows what I am saying. Even athletes have a "goal" and desired result, but in the moment of the actual play thinking stops and all that exists is the moment of the action. It is very common that an athlete will "choke" if they think too much on the desired result. The act of ceremony and ritual have this same sense, to me, of being "in the zone" so to speak.
When I am in ceremony directed at acheiving a specific goal it is part of my intent but no longer my focus if that makes sense. As the musician, while performing, is in the music I am in the magick.
I will add that the "training" aspect of symbol and iconic language help in detaching from said "lust of result". Ceremony and ritual are in this way self strengthening and self sustaining. The more you work ceremony and ritual the less you "think" about it; the more you just experience it in the moment.
My most effective operations are in this "zone". While my intent remains intact my desire for the result takes a backseat as I allow myself to be absorbed in the moment. Nothing exists outside of the act; not even the outcome. In our last conversation I AM described it as a very Zen-like state. I have to agree completely in this regard.
Om A Piap (210/3)
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Magick without the Ceremony?
Original post: Benedict Achaniel
Thinking versus doing again. This always seems to come up.
Look at what professionals say about just about any field that requires a modicum of skill. Learn the basics, adapt the memory, and then stop thinking about it and "do" it (ie, allow the subconcious to do what it does best). Drumming, for me, is a prime example. When I think about drumming, I'm a far worse player than when I simply let the music carry me and allow my subconscious to control my limbs.
Now, there is an inverse to this. Without learning the basics (imho, what all the ritual and ceremony is really all about) all I would be doing is flailing. You have to learn the feel of magic, the texture to it. Explore your mind and gnosis and find out what it is that makes magic work. Then throw away all the theory, everything your instructors ever told you, convention, and Just Do It (tm).
As for he who asked 'why take the magic out of magic'... well obviously our goals divulge. Dressing up in a robe, calling out words and invoking godforms doesn't entertain me all that much. Neither does bargaining with spirits, or conjuring balls of energy.
What entertains me about magic is that, when I NEED to be somewhere on time, I can make it. When a deadline is fast approaching at work, I can make sure the work gets done. When I need a little bit of money, or a quick lay, or I want a bag of good weed (or a car, but that was a whole seperate story). When I need that little extra NUDGE of chance, that's what I use magic for. Slamming around the astral in a TIE fighter (w/ apologies to Phil Hine ;p), ain't my idea of a good time.
To each his own.
Thinking versus doing again. This always seems to come up.
Look at what professionals say about just about any field that requires a modicum of skill. Learn the basics, adapt the memory, and then stop thinking about it and "do" it (ie, allow the subconcious to do what it does best). Drumming, for me, is a prime example. When I think about drumming, I'm a far worse player than when I simply let the music carry me and allow my subconscious to control my limbs.
Now, there is an inverse to this. Without learning the basics (imho, what all the ritual and ceremony is really all about) all I would be doing is flailing. You have to learn the feel of magic, the texture to it. Explore your mind and gnosis and find out what it is that makes magic work. Then throw away all the theory, everything your instructors ever told you, convention, and Just Do It (tm).
As for he who asked 'why take the magic out of magic'... well obviously our goals divulge. Dressing up in a robe, calling out words and invoking godforms doesn't entertain me all that much. Neither does bargaining with spirits, or conjuring balls of energy.
What entertains me about magic is that, when I NEED to be somewhere on time, I can make it. When a deadline is fast approaching at work, I can make sure the work gets done. When I need a little bit of money, or a quick lay, or I want a bag of good weed (or a car, but that was a whole seperate story). When I need that little extra NUDGE of chance, that's what I use magic for. Slamming around the astral in a TIE fighter (w/ apologies to Phil Hine ;p), ain't my idea of a good time.
To each his own.
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Magick without the Ceremony?
Original post: visceral/spagyrical
[QUOTE=I AM]I want to caution that the symbolism of CM as well as the rituals ARE important and NOT FLUFF.
In martial arts, you must learn to crawl and walk before you can run and it takes years to truly master the art. It is the same in Ceremonial Magick. In fact, it is the same in ALL Magick.
I have stated before in my BH posts (Before Hacking) that Ritual was the vehicle not the destination. However, it is an important vehicle that should not be arbitrarily discarded.
While there are many paths to Magick, the CM path DOES NOT only unlock personal power but also promotes personal growth as well. The methodology of CM assists us in exploring ourselves in a direct way very deeply and allows us to gain control over facets of ourselves that we would be unable to access directly in any other way.
This is difficult for me to put into words but I will try. I liken CM to climbing a ladder. In the first few steps of the ladder we realize we are aware of more and can see more and most of us realize that the ladder is very high. As we progress up the steps of the ladder more of the REAL world becomes known to us and USABLE to us. What was scary and perhaps unsafe we have now mastered and have control over.
However, in my experience, there is no top to the ladder. Our progression up the ladder enables us to experience things that we could not even dream of while on the lower steps of the ladder. The higher we climb the more we realize that the lower steps were unimportant BUT NECESSARY TO GET TO WHERE WE ARE. The higher we climb the more we understand that the Universe is VAST and the wonders of that Universe are without words. We are able to experience what others have to share as well as see the World for what it really is.
There is no end to growth...only new beginnings. There is no top, there is only more. I do not think that any, in one lifetime, can hope to see and learn all that there is to know.
Can we do magick without ritual or methodology? Certainly. Should we? I do not think so. The very methodology of Magick, in ANY PATH, is necessary to fully experience the wonders that await us. There comes a time when the Magickian no longer needs ritual. That is because the Magickian fully understands the methodology and has climbed high enough up the ladder to truly understand the Magick that is being practiced. In a sense the Magick has become the Ritual and its reverse is true as well.
At each step of the ladder As Above, So Below and As Within, So Without is true. AT EACH STEP. And, like any ladder, at each step it is possible to fall.
In order to the Magickian to perceive the WITHOUT at each step the Magickian has to have grown WITHIN to enable this perception. The vibration within has to equal the vibration without before what is there can be perceived. This is true in ALL true Magick but especially true in CM. This single SIMPLE truth is also the most important truth. The Vibration Within has to Equal the Vibration Without in order for perception to occur.
All of these steps are valuable as well as necessary. This has been my experience. How one climbs them are up to the Magickian. However, failure to climb the steps leads to falls. Failure to climb hides the Universe from the Magickian.
Humbly, I AM[/QUOTE]
I agree with this.
Even though I stripped everything down to writing, I still use the symbols of alchemy to understand what it is I'm doing. The symbols are very important.
I write in terms of alchemy, I don't do alchemy in terms of writing. I personally think there's a big difference between the two.
v/s
[QUOTE=I AM]I want to caution that the symbolism of CM as well as the rituals ARE important and NOT FLUFF.
In martial arts, you must learn to crawl and walk before you can run and it takes years to truly master the art. It is the same in Ceremonial Magick. In fact, it is the same in ALL Magick.
I have stated before in my BH posts (Before Hacking) that Ritual was the vehicle not the destination. However, it is an important vehicle that should not be arbitrarily discarded.
While there are many paths to Magick, the CM path DOES NOT only unlock personal power but also promotes personal growth as well. The methodology of CM assists us in exploring ourselves in a direct way very deeply and allows us to gain control over facets of ourselves that we would be unable to access directly in any other way.
This is difficult for me to put into words but I will try. I liken CM to climbing a ladder. In the first few steps of the ladder we realize we are aware of more and can see more and most of us realize that the ladder is very high. As we progress up the steps of the ladder more of the REAL world becomes known to us and USABLE to us. What was scary and perhaps unsafe we have now mastered and have control over.
However, in my experience, there is no top to the ladder. Our progression up the ladder enables us to experience things that we could not even dream of while on the lower steps of the ladder. The higher we climb the more we realize that the lower steps were unimportant BUT NECESSARY TO GET TO WHERE WE ARE. The higher we climb the more we understand that the Universe is VAST and the wonders of that Universe are without words. We are able to experience what others have to share as well as see the World for what it really is.
There is no end to growth...only new beginnings. There is no top, there is only more. I do not think that any, in one lifetime, can hope to see and learn all that there is to know.
Can we do magick without ritual or methodology? Certainly. Should we? I do not think so. The very methodology of Magick, in ANY PATH, is necessary to fully experience the wonders that await us. There comes a time when the Magickian no longer needs ritual. That is because the Magickian fully understands the methodology and has climbed high enough up the ladder to truly understand the Magick that is being practiced. In a sense the Magick has become the Ritual and its reverse is true as well.
At each step of the ladder As Above, So Below and As Within, So Without is true. AT EACH STEP. And, like any ladder, at each step it is possible to fall.
In order to the Magickian to perceive the WITHOUT at each step the Magickian has to have grown WITHIN to enable this perception. The vibration within has to equal the vibration without before what is there can be perceived. This is true in ALL true Magick but especially true in CM. This single SIMPLE truth is also the most important truth. The Vibration Within has to Equal the Vibration Without in order for perception to occur.
All of these steps are valuable as well as necessary. This has been my experience. How one climbs them are up to the Magickian. However, failure to climb the steps leads to falls. Failure to climb hides the Universe from the Magickian.
Humbly, I AM[/QUOTE]
I agree with this.
Even though I stripped everything down to writing, I still use the symbols of alchemy to understand what it is I'm doing. The symbols are very important.
I write in terms of alchemy, I don't do alchemy in terms of writing. I personally think there's a big difference between the two.
v/s
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Magick without the Ceremony?
Original post: retardomonteblande
If I may interject something, but only as a confirmation of the discussion at hand. The objective of performing magick is to obtain the experience/benefit of performing the ritual in a "spiritual" sensation that uplifts the persons ego, id, persona- similar to the snake handlers of Georgia who praise their God by dancing in their church with handfuls of live rattle snakes, and drinking cyanide from mason jars. These worshippers objective is to honor their deity by doing so, not for petty favors such as getting money, or gifts, etc. CM magick is extensively the same reserve of mindset- because one CAN do so and feel a prescence of "something" in the room with them during a ritual.
Forgive me- but I must ask the next question(s)- The enitites that are summoned during rituals are physicaly apparent, and by their prescence demonstrate that the ritual is proper and true to the fact that such beings exist in a realm not far from our own dimension. But what bothers me are simple curiosities. King Solomon was known for having a kingdom- I suppose by use of low magick (forgive me if I am wrong on this)- but how or why not use such beings for creating a dynasty, not only your own wealth but the wealth of others? Why not use said power to stop diseases that are spreading world wide, not disease that kills the masses of the world in large numbers (this would be illogical- goes against population control) but just wiping out one single disease with the power to do so? I wonder what ritual it would take to do this form of low magick- and the power to do so would be a form of paradox in itself. Lets say that every single person suffering from a from of disease were to suddenly be cured- doctors would be puzzled, the disease would simply become known as a piece of history. What would be the ritual to say, cease anyone from dying in a single 24 hour period, on the entire planet? I realize it would twist the fabric of what we know to be the space time continum(sp_) but it would change something- would it not.
I have a number of questions like this, like why isn't the goal of any magickian to contact the spirits of their dead great-grandchildren- sort of speaking to the future generation in a manner- or even speaking to their great-grandchildren that are alive?
If this is not considered possible, please say so- whereas I am trying to fully understand the geometry of high and low magick- the simple act of stopping time, disease, death, etc would seem to be low magick- it would in essence be of high magick because of the ritual involved. An elder once told me that Crowley once traveled from one part of Europe to another in a period of time considered impossible for the day- basically he was slowing time down, or speeding his travel time up- whichever, the result was the by product of using magick. This causes me to think even harder upon the fact that there is no such thing as low magick or high magick- no such thing as black or white or grey magick- there is simply magick, or there isn't. I want to be sure that I have this operandi modium correct within the framework of the great teachings that I am about to undertake if I am to persue CM in its fullest. Let me say that all magick is personal to an effect, but the desired outcome of doing so may be universal in that it changes the universe that others exist in. To explain my understanding- a nuclear bomb might just destroy a certain area of the detonation site per the people who live in the surrounding area, but what if such an event effects other dimensions as well- its not a magickal event, its merely science used destructively but it has an effect on a level of existence most cannot comprehend or study due to its design- does practicing magick have the same outcome? I have noticed how- by my own observation, how I might "act" socially to one person and how that "act" effects people on a microcosmic scale within the building- it may shift the mood of many I encounter during my stay in the building. But, people enter and leave the building as well, adding to the "act" that I originally set off. By designing my own ritual, with will/intent secure- I have indeed set off a program for performing a form of magick unique to me alone, but effective in its implications and actions toward others including objects- much as a genie would be in granting a wish to another who wished to BECOME a genie. Is there a possibility of doing so to another magickian, the passing of great intellect and power by ritual?
Please correct me if I am wrong, just trying to comprehend such a power, and where to begin searching for such capability- consider it to be a quest for energies that would demonstrate such whims on request-demand-will. Much in revelation as far as divination, bringing about such a event as a giant marshmellow man building (;} ) a city from stone, or any other fanciful desire- that is what I am seeking. External forces- nothing that resides within my psyche, but how to communicate with energies that are true to the master- by ritual, method of evocation, etc.
Thank you for constructing an answer for me, I truly wish to learn the limitations of CM considering this, and if CM cannot address my quest- where should I turn?
If I may interject something, but only as a confirmation of the discussion at hand. The objective of performing magick is to obtain the experience/benefit of performing the ritual in a "spiritual" sensation that uplifts the persons ego, id, persona- similar to the snake handlers of Georgia who praise their God by dancing in their church with handfuls of live rattle snakes, and drinking cyanide from mason jars. These worshippers objective is to honor their deity by doing so, not for petty favors such as getting money, or gifts, etc. CM magick is extensively the same reserve of mindset- because one CAN do so and feel a prescence of "something" in the room with them during a ritual.
Forgive me- but I must ask the next question(s)- The enitites that are summoned during rituals are physicaly apparent, and by their prescence demonstrate that the ritual is proper and true to the fact that such beings exist in a realm not far from our own dimension. But what bothers me are simple curiosities. King Solomon was known for having a kingdom- I suppose by use of low magick (forgive me if I am wrong on this)- but how or why not use such beings for creating a dynasty, not only your own wealth but the wealth of others? Why not use said power to stop diseases that are spreading world wide, not disease that kills the masses of the world in large numbers (this would be illogical- goes against population control) but just wiping out one single disease with the power to do so? I wonder what ritual it would take to do this form of low magick- and the power to do so would be a form of paradox in itself. Lets say that every single person suffering from a from of disease were to suddenly be cured- doctors would be puzzled, the disease would simply become known as a piece of history. What would be the ritual to say, cease anyone from dying in a single 24 hour period, on the entire planet? I realize it would twist the fabric of what we know to be the space time continum(sp_) but it would change something- would it not.
I have a number of questions like this, like why isn't the goal of any magickian to contact the spirits of their dead great-grandchildren- sort of speaking to the future generation in a manner- or even speaking to their great-grandchildren that are alive?
If this is not considered possible, please say so- whereas I am trying to fully understand the geometry of high and low magick- the simple act of stopping time, disease, death, etc would seem to be low magick- it would in essence be of high magick because of the ritual involved. An elder once told me that Crowley once traveled from one part of Europe to another in a period of time considered impossible for the day- basically he was slowing time down, or speeding his travel time up- whichever, the result was the by product of using magick. This causes me to think even harder upon the fact that there is no such thing as low magick or high magick- no such thing as black or white or grey magick- there is simply magick, or there isn't. I want to be sure that I have this operandi modium correct within the framework of the great teachings that I am about to undertake if I am to persue CM in its fullest. Let me say that all magick is personal to an effect, but the desired outcome of doing so may be universal in that it changes the universe that others exist in. To explain my understanding- a nuclear bomb might just destroy a certain area of the detonation site per the people who live in the surrounding area, but what if such an event effects other dimensions as well- its not a magickal event, its merely science used destructively but it has an effect on a level of existence most cannot comprehend or study due to its design- does practicing magick have the same outcome? I have noticed how- by my own observation, how I might "act" socially to one person and how that "act" effects people on a microcosmic scale within the building- it may shift the mood of many I encounter during my stay in the building. But, people enter and leave the building as well, adding to the "act" that I originally set off. By designing my own ritual, with will/intent secure- I have indeed set off a program for performing a form of magick unique to me alone, but effective in its implications and actions toward others including objects- much as a genie would be in granting a wish to another who wished to BECOME a genie. Is there a possibility of doing so to another magickian, the passing of great intellect and power by ritual?
Please correct me if I am wrong, just trying to comprehend such a power, and where to begin searching for such capability- consider it to be a quest for energies that would demonstrate such whims on request-demand-will. Much in revelation as far as divination, bringing about such a event as a giant marshmellow man building (;} ) a city from stone, or any other fanciful desire- that is what I am seeking. External forces- nothing that resides within my psyche, but how to communicate with energies that are true to the master- by ritual, method of evocation, etc.
Thank you for constructing an answer for me, I truly wish to learn the limitations of CM considering this, and if CM cannot address my quest- where should I turn?
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Magick without the Ceremony?
Original post: Horus
I consider myself a ceremonial magician, but I did not always use rituals and ceremony. I truly believe that the same results can be aquired by other means, at least most of them anyway, and I KNOW some of them can. I would venture to say that if you sat in a room long enough that was decorated in the correct scheme with magickal intent to draw on it you could get the result. Think of the last time you visited a place that was decorated in a very exotic or surprising way (assuming you don't frequently find yourselves in such environments, hehe)
. Of course there might be exceptions, such as dealing with entities and perhaps Gods (though I'm not so sure about that either), but in that case you could look how entities are dealt with in non-ceremonial traditions of magick and the like. Not all of them use elaborate ceremony... and personally I think it's good to mix things up, but that is probably the die-hard chaote still in me .
I consider myself a ceremonial magician, but I did not always use rituals and ceremony. I truly believe that the same results can be aquired by other means, at least most of them anyway, and I KNOW some of them can. I would venture to say that if you sat in a room long enough that was decorated in the correct scheme with magickal intent to draw on it you could get the result. Think of the last time you visited a place that was decorated in a very exotic or surprising way (assuming you don't frequently find yourselves in such environments, hehe)
. Of course there might be exceptions, such as dealing with entities and perhaps Gods (though I'm not so sure about that either), but in that case you could look how entities are dealt with in non-ceremonial traditions of magick and the like. Not all of them use elaborate ceremony... and personally I think it's good to mix things up, but that is probably the die-hard chaote still in me .-
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Magick without the Ceremony?
Original post: Samael Yossarian
Perhaps another facet to look at in discussing magick sans hoopla of ceremony is the creation of a ceremony itself. Perhaps a reason that many people are looking towards deconstructed magick is that while the ceremony might aid in getting into the magickal space, offer more protection, give you an excuse to wear cool looking robes, etc., it becomes hard to relate to. I like to look at not only the stripped down way, but also the creation of new ceremonies that are relevant to the mage. One can use the more traditional ceremonies as building blocks, if you will, to develop something new. Or you can go hog wild and go with a completely unique approach.
Perhaps another facet to look at in discussing magick sans hoopla of ceremony is the creation of a ceremony itself. Perhaps a reason that many people are looking towards deconstructed magick is that while the ceremony might aid in getting into the magickal space, offer more protection, give you an excuse to wear cool looking robes, etc., it becomes hard to relate to. I like to look at not only the stripped down way, but also the creation of new ceremonies that are relevant to the mage. One can use the more traditional ceremonies as building blocks, if you will, to develop something new. Or you can go hog wild and go with a completely unique approach.
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Magick without the Ceremony?
Original post: Fr. Qim
Ceremony, Magick and the Stone of the Wise.
Bruce Lee once said something to the effect of: Before I knew the art a punch was just a punch and a kick was just a kick. We I had studied the art a punch was no longer a punch and a kick was no longer a kick. Now that I understand the art, a punch is just a punch and a kick is just a kick.
These remarks could just as easily be applied to magick because HE WAS TALKING ABOUT MAGICK. Specifically about a form of magick related to Mars. Ceremony as a magickal technique is nothing more than manipulating the universe in a symbolic manner so as to cause change. "Ceremonial Magick" is simply a highly advanced symbol set or language for doing so. A Shaman is every bit a ceremonial magician by the literal definition of the terms. He is using symbolic ceremony to work his will. We are all magicians and we are either proficient or inept in our art.
The question then becomes why study the particular symbol set which we have grouped under the title "Ceremonial magick?" For no better reason than because it works. Could you use a simpler symbol set? Sure, but as you grow in understanding you may find it incomplete or lacking and so you expand it, fine tune it, relate it to other symbol sets and see how they point at the same principles. That is how many of us became attracted to "ceremonial magick," we found that it allowed us to integrate all of our experiences into one workable symbol set.
Could you discard the symbols and simply work magick? WE DO IT ALL THE TIME! Ceremony is the "big guns" of magick. The idea of ceremony as something you "move beyond" is ridiculous. Rather, non-ceremony is something you move beyond. Your whole life becomes one great ceremony of initiation.
Ceremony, Magick and the Stone of the Wise.
Bruce Lee once said something to the effect of: Before I knew the art a punch was just a punch and a kick was just a kick. We I had studied the art a punch was no longer a punch and a kick was no longer a kick. Now that I understand the art, a punch is just a punch and a kick is just a kick.
These remarks could just as easily be applied to magick because HE WAS TALKING ABOUT MAGICK. Specifically about a form of magick related to Mars. Ceremony as a magickal technique is nothing more than manipulating the universe in a symbolic manner so as to cause change. "Ceremonial Magick" is simply a highly advanced symbol set or language for doing so. A Shaman is every bit a ceremonial magician by the literal definition of the terms. He is using symbolic ceremony to work his will. We are all magicians and we are either proficient or inept in our art.
The question then becomes why study the particular symbol set which we have grouped under the title "Ceremonial magick?" For no better reason than because it works. Could you use a simpler symbol set? Sure, but as you grow in understanding you may find it incomplete or lacking and so you expand it, fine tune it, relate it to other symbol sets and see how they point at the same principles. That is how many of us became attracted to "ceremonial magick," we found that it allowed us to integrate all of our experiences into one workable symbol set.
Could you discard the symbols and simply work magick? WE DO IT ALL THE TIME! Ceremony is the "big guns" of magick. The idea of ceremony as something you "move beyond" is ridiculous. Rather, non-ceremony is something you move beyond. Your whole life becomes one great ceremony of initiation.
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Magick without the Ceremony?
Original post: Fr. Qim
Sorry, I wanted to address this in my last post but forgot. The question was asked why the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram is regarded as the "Stone of the Wise". The reason is not because the particular vibrations of this ritual are better than those of other rituals, although they may be depending on the ritual in question, but rather because the principles of high magick itself are laid out in it. The LBRP is essentially a mini-HGA contact ritual, albeit in very reduced form. It is like a small key, which if used as a blueprint, can be used to forge the great key with which the vault of adepts is unlocked.
Sorry, I wanted to address this in my last post but forgot. The question was asked why the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram is regarded as the "Stone of the Wise". The reason is not because the particular vibrations of this ritual are better than those of other rituals, although they may be depending on the ritual in question, but rather because the principles of high magick itself are laid out in it. The LBRP is essentially a mini-HGA contact ritual, albeit in very reduced form. It is like a small key, which if used as a blueprint, can be used to forge the great key with which the vault of adepts is unlocked.
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Magick without the Ceremony?
Original post: SatsUrn
Interesting Thread. Our every action is ritual, our interactions are ceremony, these things we do all the time. The area "places" are the "transit"
locus of mind/life/energy interactions. Each different place has a unique energy, a quality, a sense, and many living memories. Different places have differing degrees of energy and types of ambiance. It is the "area and that area's energy" that is the most important aspect of the occult? We tend to naturally find these "places" and it is our choice to interact with these "places of energy" in a time of our choosing. And is it not the reaction that most of the times is not apparent at that moment in time occurrence? and this can be missed entirely that we must practice in sensing/perceiving so we can learn to interact at that area in time "with focus" to what is above/beneath/inside/outside of the obvious ambiance. And there is nothing wrong with just being happy, playful, and wondrous, during the entire process of the interaction.
JMO
Interesting Thread. Our every action is ritual, our interactions are ceremony, these things we do all the time. The area "places" are the "transit"
locus of mind/life/energy interactions. Each different place has a unique energy, a quality, a sense, and many living memories. Different places have differing degrees of energy and types of ambiance. It is the "area and that area's energy" that is the most important aspect of the occult? We tend to naturally find these "places" and it is our choice to interact with these "places of energy" in a time of our choosing. And is it not the reaction that most of the times is not apparent at that moment in time occurrence? and this can be missed entirely that we must practice in sensing/perceiving so we can learn to interact at that area in time "with focus" to what is above/beneath/inside/outside of the obvious ambiance. And there is nothing wrong with just being happy, playful, and wondrous, during the entire process of the interaction.
JMO
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Magick without the Ceremony?
Original post: whimsy
[QUOTE=SatsUrn]And there is nothing wrong with just being happy, playful, and wondrous, during the entire process of the interaction.
JMO[/QUOTE]
interestingly, this brings up one of the two reasons i have always stayed away from ceremonial magick. the seeming lack of fun.
if ceremony is taught to an initiate in order to train the mind, does this not infer that the ceremony can be neglected? that the ceremony and all its components is in itself a tool to learn to focus the mind, exercise visualization, and attach meaning to things in order to communicate. are the symbols and tools magickal? no, we cleanse, purify, sancify and charge them ourselves. we allow the symbols and tools to fulfill their purpose through our actions, and it is our strength of Will and Focus that tempers their potency. i don't think i've ever drawn a circle the same way twice. and any variances with outcome has been due to my mood, focus and intent. some of the most powerful Work i've done has been sans frills: just me.
the other thing that has intimidated me from ceremonial magick, and indeed magickal things and folks at large is LANGUAGE. in the way of language as a tool. and i am torn on this issue. on one hand, i identify that words are like sigils in themselves, and once read, are charged with what we've been programmed to charge them, by definition. so why purposely use language in a way that's difficult to decipher? is obscurity part of the tradition, or part of the training? is it to perpetuate the guise of mystery? am i an idiot?.....on the other hand, if a word, even a letter, is but a symbol, then the language chosen can be likened to a spell. that the words chosen were chosen for their harmony/disharmony together, and in order to appreciate the value of the language, one would need to indoctrinate oneself with the practice and use of such language....which returns me to the seeming lack of fun.
tell me, ceremonial mages, are you all really so serious all the time, bent to your craft? or is there room for whimsy? (haha: i made a pun)
it all comes down to the self. and that being said: in reference to high/low magick: is high magick, then, our path(s) to enlightenment? if that's the case, i've got a bit to say on that. the answer is always Zen.
[QUOTE=SatsUrn]And there is nothing wrong with just being happy, playful, and wondrous, during the entire process of the interaction.
JMO[/QUOTE]
interestingly, this brings up one of the two reasons i have always stayed away from ceremonial magick. the seeming lack of fun.
if ceremony is taught to an initiate in order to train the mind, does this not infer that the ceremony can be neglected? that the ceremony and all its components is in itself a tool to learn to focus the mind, exercise visualization, and attach meaning to things in order to communicate. are the symbols and tools magickal? no, we cleanse, purify, sancify and charge them ourselves. we allow the symbols and tools to fulfill their purpose through our actions, and it is our strength of Will and Focus that tempers their potency. i don't think i've ever drawn a circle the same way twice. and any variances with outcome has been due to my mood, focus and intent. some of the most powerful Work i've done has been sans frills: just me.
the other thing that has intimidated me from ceremonial magick, and indeed magickal things and folks at large is LANGUAGE. in the way of language as a tool. and i am torn on this issue. on one hand, i identify that words are like sigils in themselves, and once read, are charged with what we've been programmed to charge them, by definition. so why purposely use language in a way that's difficult to decipher? is obscurity part of the tradition, or part of the training? is it to perpetuate the guise of mystery? am i an idiot?.....on the other hand, if a word, even a letter, is but a symbol, then the language chosen can be likened to a spell. that the words chosen were chosen for their harmony/disharmony together, and in order to appreciate the value of the language, one would need to indoctrinate oneself with the practice and use of such language....which returns me to the seeming lack of fun.
tell me, ceremonial mages, are you all really so serious all the time, bent to your craft? or is there room for whimsy? (haha: i made a pun)
it all comes down to the self. and that being said: in reference to high/low magick: is high magick, then, our path(s) to enlightenment? if that's the case, i've got a bit to say on that. the answer is always Zen.
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Magick without the Ceremony?
Original post: LadyHydralisk
[QUOTE=Hoor-paar-Kraat]Why are so many people so interested in doing away with the magick of magick?[/QUOTE]
For the same reason modernists praise that idiot Picasso and belittle the French Academicists or Pre-Raphaelites.
Hey there is nothing sexier than a guy in pointy hat and a robe mmmkay. Let us not hear any jokes about wands that's just obscene.
[QUOTE=Hoor-paar-Kraat]Why are so many people so interested in doing away with the magick of magick?[/QUOTE]
For the same reason modernists praise that idiot Picasso and belittle the French Academicists or Pre-Raphaelites.
Hey there is nothing sexier than a guy in pointy hat and a robe mmmkay. Let us not hear any jokes about wands that's just obscene.
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Magick without the Ceremony?
Original post: SatsUrn
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Very insightful, I think Ceremonial Magickians are the happiest of all. Even ones who use life's interactions as their continual ceremony of harmonies. Life itself is a fun chain of ceremonial events that needs to be marked in some way that is unique as the magickian is. The magickian is there to help, to heal, to praise, to glorify, to bring happiness in all it's splendors, to keep youthfulness forever, and defeat death. Lofty goals these inventive ceremonial magickians.
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Very insightful, I think Ceremonial Magickians are the happiest of all. Even ones who use life's interactions as their continual ceremony of harmonies. Life itself is a fun chain of ceremonial events that needs to be marked in some way that is unique as the magickian is. The magickian is there to help, to heal, to praise, to glorify, to bring happiness in all it's splendors, to keep youthfulness forever, and defeat death. Lofty goals these inventive ceremonial magickians.