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Original post: jack hectic

Original post: The Cove

Greetings -

Should not be replying to this. Don't have the order to properly answer.

So a not proper one then....

Transcendence, Union, Nirvana...

So We, or an integral part of Us, comes from the All!!!

Our mission in Life?

To return to the All!!! (While still alive - and after, of course...)

So we Live too become Masters of Death.

Well, many Occultists at least...

Now, one may ask what this has to do with the original question in this thread.

Recalling original question....

Hm...

Kinda of binary isn't it?

All? One? 0 - 1

Well a circle is symbolically better... (In place of the Zero.)

Unity cannot be understood without Duality.

Throwing bacon at that hot pan - on this cold spring morn - Oh!

To ruminate over these things is fine - it is answerable...

Well, an answer is as only useful as it's use.

To Do some Things or Be Them - it is good to think in terms of Unity - for other things Diversity may better serve.

Every perspective you take, thought that you feed, emotion that you construct - or whatever other combinations within my meaning - there is a Being, or Way, that one (or many) will be in when in that aspect - or some other word denoting signature of the patternistic and human sort.

Must simplify vocabulary...

Patternistic is not a word. lol

Onward...

Dependant upon the aspect that something is in, it's answer and the use of the answer will be variable.

In relation to the all in one, one in all conundrum.

I knew my words are not working in the proper, high pro glow sort of show - they roll into the mind like apples into a wooden bowl.

A lovely sound that makes.

Yo.

Original post: Ai Shite Maku

I think that we are, we are all, and we are all one.
God Is.
Gods Are.
I Am.
We Are.
I am God.
God is You...

Essentially I believe that to say that we are all seperate is true, and to say that we are all the same is also true. Just because there is only One God doesn't also mean that there aren't Many Gods. In the end, it comes down to how we perceive the world around us.

Original post: jack hectic

Ai Shite Maku;331296 wrote:I think that we are, we are all, and we are all one.
God Is.
Gods Are.
I Am.
We Are.
I am God.
God is You...

Essentially I believe that to say that we are all seperate is true, and to say that we are all the same is also true. Just because there is only One God doesn't also mean that there aren't Many Gods. In the end, it comes down to how we perceive the world around us.

Very True!

Original post: Lord Ruthven

I never really believed in one God, and I have a problem with the idea that all gods are essentially one God. I never liked it; why would Ra and Set be essentially representing the same being?

Similarly, I find that I cannot accept the idea that we are all one consciousness. I have, admittedly, caught a glimpse of what some refer to as the Akashic Record so know that there is something there but I believe that is just memory being imprinted on the astral - not a sign that I am essentially every person that ever was, is and will be. Frankly, some people are so vile that I positively reject being linked with them in any way beyond specise (and I accept that grudingly). Undoubtedly some of the more new-age/Buddhist inclined would say that is my ego getting in the way of my higher self but I think ego is an integral part of the self and that to try and destroy it is somewhat missing the point of transcendence.

Original post: jack hectic

Lord Ruthven;331504 wrote:I never really believed in one God, and I have a problem with the idea that all gods are essentially one God. I never liked it; why would Ra and Set be essentially representing the same being?

I've had this problem when thinking about Zeus and Satan or something representing the same thing, but when you get a grasp on what God is and what God isn't, it's easy to grasp. God is simply a consciousness, the ultimate observer, and the consciousness is spread out like an amoeba in different arms with different histories and personalities. Yes, this means we are linked to evil people, but it does not mean we are evil people. And more importantly, this means we have the power and responsibility to change evil people. Imagine God as a huge gemstone. Set and Ra are simply facets of that stone that cast a certain light. Since Ra and Set are so different, this simply means they are very far away from each other on the gem, but they are still part of the same whole, and focusing on one deity out of the many will only give you a limited view of the whole.

Original post: Master 27

I love the way this discussion is going.

It's interesting to read all the different views, and each of them are equally fascinating to me.

Keep it up, folks!

[QUOTE=Tevnon;330249]The statement seems to rest on the assumption that whatever is true of God(s) is also true of man. That's a rather strange assumption to make.
Could all gods be one God yet all man not be one man? I don't see why not. [/QUOTE]

Gods/God are/is the human interpretation of something (love, war, death, power, strength, etc.), so why would they have to have different standards applied to them?

Human perspective: God has many faces, but they are One.

God's perspective: Humans have many faces, but they are One.

I think it depends on your perspective. You are looking at something much greater than yourself (if you believe there in something) from your very limited point of view, and you think you have it figured out. Therefore, from this limited perspective, you can't conceive that you are not an individual: because you feel like an individual. Sure Hecate and Hades and Zeus can all be One thingâ?¦but you? No, not a chance.

But what if they feel like individuals, too? What then?

-Ater

Original post: Lord Ruthven

jack hectic;331510 wrote: God is simply a consciousness, the ultimate observer, and the consciousness is spread out like an amoeba in different arms with different histories and personalities.

I have heard this argument before, but to me it makes 'God' so nebulous as to be a worthless construct philosophically. We are all connected in some way by being in the universe, for example, but such a link is so vague as to be worthless. Yes, you can alter the world around you be your Will - if I didn't think that I wouldn't be involved in the Work - but is there any point to the visualisation that you are doing it thanks to the tenuous link of the univeral conscious.

Personally, the visions I've seen suggest to me the real transcendence is pulling out of the universal conscious and being of truly independent thought and 'power'. That is an element I am only just beginning to explore myself, however.

Original post: jack hectic

Lord Ruthven;331541 wrote:I have heard this argument before, but to me it makes 'God' so nebulous as to be a worthless construct philosophically. We are all connected in some way by being in the universe, for example, but such a link is so vague as to be worthless. Yes, you can alter the world around you be your Will - if I didn't think that I wouldn't be involved in the Work - but is there any point to the visualisation that you are doing it thanks to the tenuous link of the univeral conscious.

Personally, the visions I've seen suggest to me the real transcendence is pulling out of the universal conscious and being of truly independent thought and 'power'. That is an element I am only just beginning to explore myself, however.

I don't think those connections and the simplicity of God makes it worthless, on the contrary, in physics the observer is everything. The observer is what shapes reality. So, if the observer is God in that he has all things and their opposites (good/evil, beauty/ugliness, big/small, mercy/severity), than God is supremely neutral, and the universe can be observed in its natural beauty, without changing it. At least, thats my two sense, and as a consequence and blessing of this philosophy, I must respect differing views because if mine was the only viewpoint, I would only be seeing a small fraction of the universe and blocking out all else.

By my perspective, what you call transcendence could be two things: you could be descending further into illusion (reality is an illusion that is shared by many, and by severing yourself from the many you could be simply in a universe of uncontrolled illusion). The importance of this is that, by being only a small portion of the whole, your own personal universe may be incomplete and imperfect (however an opposing view could be that it would simply be another universe. Like if the entire universe was evil, there would be no concept of good and no evil to counter either, and new opposites would arise). The other view would be that your transcendence is unification with God and, since you would be the ONLY observer in the universe, you of course would be capable of independent thought. See, as humans and gods we are only partial observers, like imaginary friends of a psychotic. By the imaginary friends unifying with the psychotic, the fragmented person becomes whole and sane again.

Original post: Lord Ruthven

jack hectic;331597 wrote: By the imaginary friends unifying with the psychotic, the fragmented person becomes whole and sane again.

Then again if an imaginary friend takes over completely they have one personality and are therefore 'sane'.

Original post: jack hectic

Lord Ruthven;331614 wrote:Then again if an imaginary friend takes over completely they have one personality and are therefore 'sane'.

But for that friend to take over, that friend's viewpoint will allow them to see that all the rest of the imaginary friends are merely figments, and his control of them is restored.

Original post: Hairetikos

For Deity (which term I'll use to remain unbiased) to be Deity, it cannot in any way be limited. It must be infinite, which means containing everything that we humans can experience, or the potential for it. Which is why I have always thought that Chaos is a good metaphor for Deity. Chaos contains all potentials.

But it's difficult to relate to something that is infinite. So we created representatives through which we can approach Deity. When speaking to the Divine's aspect as Love, we call it Venus and attribute to it all those characteristics that we see in Love. When looking to Deity's aspect as Warrior, we call it Mars (or Aries or Horus, etc.). In my opinion, the many lesser gods and goddesses are centers of expression for the Divine. Like windows through which a particular quality of the Divine can be seen. You can step back and look at the whole house to prove that the many windows are actually parts belonging to one structure, but you can't easily access it in this way. And when you do, it's the dissolution of individuality that the mystics speak of, where your individual spark of divinity joins the larger, single Divine flame.

[QUOTE=Lord Ruthven]but is there any point to the visualisation that you are doing it thanks to the tenuous link of the univeral conscious.
[/QUOTE]

It flows more freely when you discover that power is not something you generate, but is rather something you channel.

I understand how this "we are all one" concept is almost offensive. It at first appears as an attack to your ego. Your ego thinks, "they're trying to discredit me and all I've accomplished in my life." But that's not true. It's actually the most empowering thing possible to realize that your True Self is the only Self that exists. There is only One Identity, with billions of centers of expression. It's very liberating when you realize that all the Power that ever was or will be is available to you at every second, because of the connection between your Self and the Divine. And we all share this connection, because our individual Sparks of consciousness come from the same Divine Flame.

Original post: nechesh

And there you go.... Some people get IT and some people don't. In the end what IS will remain what IS regardless of what we or our egos choose to believe. Not really worth arguing over really. I don't mean this as an attack on the ego per se, which i believe serves as an invaluable tool to our continued existence. But i can only see the thought that we are all completely separate entities as a self-delusional fantasy manifested by an over-active and defensive ego.
Oh look...TAG!....you're IT again!

Original post: Lord Ruthven

Hairetikos;331689 wrote: It flows more freely when you discover that power is not something you generate, but is rather something you channel.

Actually I would posit that it is both. Admittedly, the laws of physics state that energy canot be created or destroyed, merely changed, but the laws of physics do not accept magic and are still unable to explain the expansion of the universe so I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that, in a magical sense, people create their own energy but energy can also be channelled from elsewhere.