OccultForum.org

Original post: Naomi Chan

[QUOTE=Anathema_Oracle;251213]I'd say it depends on which pantheon or belief system you subscribe to.

In some mythologies, if not most pantheistic ones, the Gods have a tendency to interfere in the affairs of humans for both seemingly altruistic purposes, ie: giving writing, culture, protection and more selfish reasons: Zeus comes to mind when you think of all the raping and cruel challenges he set his bastard children and poor Greeks in general.

In Greek, Sumerian, Egyptian myths the Gods have distinctly human personalities, quite idiosyncratic and particular to the region. They'll kill, fight and generally quarrel endlessly with each other over Pride, power and some might say, followers.

It's no wonder some people start to speculate that these Gods are based on real historical figures or at least represent a society at the time, the Jade Emperor comes to mind with this idea and the convoluted celestial kingdom he rules.

Now to my point! All the above societies have basically abandoned these gods and the way of life they represented. For the prospective devotee I'd say it's a buyer's market when it comes to choosing a deity, nobody in Egypt really gives a damn about getting some prime real estate in the afterlife so these gods should be clamouring to offer you some servents and some nice fields for them to plow for you.

The rise of eclectic pick and choose paradigms might mean your personal pantheon could have gods who stake claim to the same occupations, which might be tricky when it comes time to call upon their services.

So do you choose them or they you? I'd say you choose them and they should be damned happy anyone remembers their name or backstory. Think of them like you would out of work actors, only really being of any use when being directed in your play about them. Deities Equity has ceased to function.

(Small nod to Small Gods by Terry Pratchett for these ideas)[/QUOTE]

I subscribe to the belief system of bleeding raw reality.....

Supposedly that must conjoin the edges of the circles of the religions at some point.....whether destroying their foundation or uplifting them.

Original post: m.namasivayam

see the power and expression of deity through the devotee.

Original post: m.namasivayam

Original post: sami999x

I met my first patron, a Roman goddess, back when I didn't even know anything about her mythology. And later, I was told by very experienced mystics in the East that I had past life relations with her. It was after she told me her name that I looked her up on the internet. But I've been meeting a Roman deity since before I knew anything about her mythology or about my past life history with her.

MOst of the people that told me about my past life with her were telling me stuff even back when I was Muslim and I didn't believe in reincarnation. And when I let them know that I didn't believe them, one of them whispered a question which seemed like he asked God for permission. Then he created solid objects with psychokinesis to prove that he's a mystic. Me and my dad were freaked out like crazy. They could see her back when I thought she was some fantasy-pseudo-dream-mommy I created.

The only problem I faced were "practicing" occultists who chose to come into the occult at their own will. They almost made me think she was some servitor I created, which resulted in me creating a servitor mini-copy of her down in the astral plane. But then I was guided back to her by the mystics with psychokinetic and other powers. I figured that people who can create solid objects at will are more experienced that mere psychics with natural powers that can be unlocked with a book.

And don't aske me for a description of how this works, but my patron is also a past life relative and I've had a direct connection with her in every life without ever needing to start practicing the occult. It's only in this life that I gotta do rituals now to get back my magical senses and be with her. But I would definitely choose her if it were up to me and not her.

Original post: Balpheron

i want to turn my back on christianity and want to have a patron but i dont should i wait for a god to choose me or should i choose god. i need your opinion. pls respond on this comment. tnx

Original post: Naomi Chan

[QUOTE=Balpheron;251691]i want to turn my back on christianity and want to have a patron but i dont should i wait for a god to choose me or should i choose god. i need your opinion. pls respond on this comment. tnx[/QUOTE]


I'm a bit partial to Satan myself, but here is a good thing to read too pertaining to the flesh-eating cannibal Dakini, Niguma.

All blessings of earth and sky upon your path....

The Melody of Wisdom: A Supplication to the Wisdom Dakini Niguma

by Jamgon Kongtrul

Vajra queen, mother of all buddhas,
Dark-brown woman wearing bone ornaments who flies through space,
You bestow supreme accomplishment on your fortunate disciples:
Noble Niguma, to you I pray.

You were born in the wonderful land of Kashmir,
In a sublime city
Known as Incomparable in the Land of Jambu,
Emanated through Madhyantika's blessing; to you I pray.

In the family circle
Of the pure Brahmin, Shantivarma,
Narotapa and you, the wisdom dakini, were brother and sisteró
Your karma ripened together like sun and moon; to you I pray.

You are the feminine form of true emptiness,
Sublime among all appearances, giving birth to all victorious buddhas.
Although you manifest in a worldly form,
You renounced any connection to existence through craving and grasping; to you I pray.

During incalculable past lives, you reached the far shore
Of awakening's stages and paths.
Thus, in this life, you gained the inconceivable, perfect freedom of self-manifest accomplishment.
Innate dakini, to you I pray.

You did not have to rely on exhausting trainingó
When some advice from accomplished masters entered your ears,
You understood all teachings.
Great bliss of natural liberation, to you I pray.

Knowledge of one subjectóthe tantras' subtle, profound meaningóled to your total liberation
And the flowering of your two forms of knowledge.
You saw directly and without obscuration the truth of the nature of reality.
Illustrious woman of accomplishment, to you I pray.

You bound your mind, eyes, and circulating energy within the expanse of emptiness,
Permitting you to see in the central channel the [empty] forms created by the spring vital essence.
Vajra illusory reflections, such as smoke, developed together.
You completed the branch of familiarization; to you I pray.

You used your breath to block the dark circulating energies and made them descend to your belly.
You joined the vitality and descending energies equally at the six energy centers,
Blocking the movement of the six elements' sun and moon.
You completed the branch of proximate accomplishment; to you I pray.

You transcended the three seals to reach incomparable Great Seal.
The innate light of its unchanging, coemergent bliss
Created your ten-faceted illusory body, replete with all powers.
You completed the branch of accomplishment; to you I pray.

You blocked the twenty-one thousand six hundred circulating energies and attained that many forms of changeless bliss.
At the crown of your head, the mind of awakening became stable,
And you traversed awakening's stages in an instant.
You completed the branch of great accomplishment; to you I pray.

Through engaging in conduct that is enlightenment's direct cause,
You enjoyed many pleasures and were nurtured spiritually by Buddha Vajra Bearer.
Your fortune equaled hisóyour body of training's integral union
Works for beings whose numbers equal space; to you I pray.

You saw directly all phenomena without obscuration
And opened inconceivable millions of gates to meditative states.
You master the secret treasury of all victorious ones.
Consort of all buddhas, to you I pray.

Body of great bliss, emptiness and compassion inseparable,
Manifestation of blissful buddhas, sovereign of common and supreme accomplishment,
Powerful bodhisattva on awakening's tenth stage, glorious guide for beings,
Wearer of Bone Ornaments, to you I pray.

Sentient beings, our venerable mothers, wander along the wheel of life
In endless and fathomless seas of suffering.
With your universal great compassion,
Lead them to a pure land of flourishing, uncontaminated bliss, I pray.

Nurture fortunate persons who have entered the path;
Pacify all adversity, hindrances, and obstacles;
Continually enhance our experience and realization;
And bless us with the completion of awakening's five paths and ten stages.
(A Garland of Udumvara Flowers, pp. 3a-4a)

Excerpted from Timeless Rapture, by Ngawang Zangpo.

(http://www.sukhasiddhi.org/about_niguma.php)

Original post: sami999x

Balpheron, you can follow magic from a Judeo-christian tradition. I first started doing magic with Islamic traditions. And then I met my spirit guide, who's a Roman deity and NOT Islamic. And she taught me all religions are just different paths to the same Creator. And now I follow whatever exercize I can find to boost up my psychic powers.

Original post: leanderle

I think when you find the right God or Goddess it just feels right. It can take time - took me three years of searching before I found who I was meant to work with. It will just happen - you´ll find yourself drawn to a being or tradition, and it just kinda happens.

Leander

Original post: endor957

Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you? -
Good question for a person or a people who're unsure of themselves. To m, if you ask if they choose you, would be inspired from a Christain/Judeo perspective where YHVH choose his prophets. Correct me if I'm wrong, because there are many well verse in the subject but that religion is the only one where their God choose people to rep him/her/it/them/they, etc., Every other god from everywhere else is independent.

So with that shit written, to ask, I answer: choose your own God> MWF once wrote something along the lines of what good are Gods existing outside of us without our interaction. If we didn't exist or had our brains, would their existence matter so much and to who. Gods are represented by us no matter who says otherwise.

Oh and beware of people who claim anything about devilry or satanism when they change belief systems like their underwear. Word up.

Original post: sami999x

That's like asking: If no other countries existed, then what good would be Americans? or if Planet Earth didn't exist, what good would be the other planets?

The answers are, if no other countries than America existed, then America could still exist. If planet Earth didn't exist, then every other planets could still exist.

And if we humans didn't worship or call the gods, they could still exist and do their thing. Except we humans just wouldn't be there to see them...

Original post: endor957

Yes but what would be the significance of it if humans didn't existed. They may exists but the importance of their existence means nothing unless you add in the human factor, Gods like to be noticed and or worshipped. That's my two cents.

Original post: UniversalIntelligence51

Hey concerning YHVH and Christ, aren't these two similiar? I have a strange feeling that these two are either connected or there in the same league... Iono if ya get where I am going on this. But I have a strong connection with Christ and got lots of little bastards on the physical plane that are bothersome so I lean towards YHVH to sweep the areas with the LBRP... Either or right?

Original post: sami999x

[QUOTE=endor957;252504]Yes but what would be the significance of it if humans didn't existed. They may exists but the importance of their existence means nothing unless you add in the human factor, Gods like to be noticed and or worshipped. That's my two cents.[/QUOTE]

I don't think so. The benevolent deities mostly like to be loved or paid respects to. Only the Abyssic forms of the gods want you to kneel down and cry and scream and beg.

Original post: Valkyrie

My father noticed when I was 10 that I had a very wicked and firey additude. Not only that I was far too intellegent for a 10 year old and I was a better manipulator than someone of any number of years older than me, with that time of practice.

He said I acted like a follower of Morrigu. I was clueless.

She did pick me. He only helped me to find her. I still call her my patron mother.

Original post: Kath_

[QUOTE=endor957;252386]Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you? -
Good question for a person or a people who're unsure of themselves. To m, if you ask if they choose you, would be inspired from a Christain/Judeo perspective where YHVH choose his prophets. Correct me if I'm wrong, because there are many well verse in the subject but that religion is the only one where their God choose people to rep him/her/it/them/they, etc., Every other god from everywhere else is independent.

So with that shit written, to ask, I answer: choose your own God> MWF once wrote something along the lines of what good are Gods existing outside of us without our interaction. If we didn't exist or had our brains, would their existence matter so much and to who. Gods are represented by us no matter who says otherwise.

Oh and beware of people who claim anything about devilry or satanism when they change belief systems like their underwear. Word up.[/QUOTE]
I agree with the principal of self determinism, choosing your own beliefs, patron, or pantheon, if any. and not just sitting around waiting to be picked, or letting some random godform dictate anything to you... I get it, i do.

But i dissagree on one principal... that just cuz you want to interact with a particular deity, doesn't mean they want to interact with you.

This whole thing hinges on how we define a deity though. If a deity is a super-egregore, then the deity would probably be highly responsive to someone wanting to interact. If however the deity exists as an independent entity, it may be flatly dissinterested in some would-be followers.

my 'patron' doesn't seek worship, disdains the weak minded adoring types, and generally dislikes humans. She, obviously, is not a group construct and is not fueled by the faith of followers.

Kath

Original post: DestroyedBySet

What garbage - does anyone have any proof of a "deity"?



On the other hand though:

[QUOTE=UniversalIntelligence51;252709]Hey concerning YHVH and Christ, aren't these two similiar? I have a strange feeling that these two are either connected or there in the same league... [/QUOTE]

Hmm, you're getting warm.

Original post: Diceman

[QUOTE=Silverback2001;247487]This is something that I've been thinking about for a little while now. I have limited experience with working with deities in a multiple sense, however I have had a lot of experience working with Anubis. The story behind that is..odd to say the least, but my experiences have interested me in looking more deeply at the connection between deity and worshiper.

Who chooses who? Does the God/Goddess choose the person, based on similar characteristics to themselves, and nudge the person in their direction? Does the person just happen to find a God/Goddess that they decide to work with?

I'm asking this, because in my case it seems like it might be a bit of both. I had been hiking along some cliffs in a desert, when the path I was testing gave way, with me on it. I started falling down a cliff, but managed to grab ahold of a fist-sized rock, sticking out of the side. I tried to pull myself up multiple times, but failed. I had turned away from the Christian religion before then, had explored Wicca, but didn't think it was my cup of tea. Not knowing who I should call for divine aid, I started calling out names pantheon by pantheon. I went through the Greek pantheon, and got no reply, Roman, no reply, and was about half-way through what I knew of the Egyptian pantheon, when I finally called out to Anubis. It was strange.. I suddenly felt a surge of confidence, and tried pulling myself up with the rock again. The other times, it had come looser and looser in the sandstone when I tried. This time, it held fast. I managed to pull myself up, and thanked the God who I knew had held the stone in place, and given me the strength I needed.

I didn't think much more of it for another couple of years. Suddenly, Anubis started appearing in my dreams, giving me advice now and then, and treated me more like an old friend, than a potential follower.

Other things happened over time with him, and eventually I started working with him as my patron deity.

Recent meditations have revealed to me that I have a lot more in common with Anubis than I had previously thought. Anubis was never accepted by Set his father/(stepfather?) and the same is really true in regards to the relationship between my parents and I. It's things like that, that led me to take on a very protective mindset when it comes to those I care about. Wanting to help others also led to my interest in healing and herbalism. Anubis is also known as the Patron of Orphans and Lost Souls, as well as a Keeper of Medicinal knowledge.
There are lots of other similarities as well, all prior to when I began my work with Anubis.

So did I choose Anubis? or did Anubis choose me? In the case of the gods being archetypal in nature, did the part of me that resonates with the Anubis archetype get tapped by my Will, and save my life? There are so many things I have yet to understand about working with gods. I love the mysteries, but the fun is in the journey to the answers.

What do you think? What experiences have you had with choosing a deity, or being chosen by them?[/QUOTE]

Uhm... my particular view of deity comes from my experiences, so I guess if I were to put it in your terms, the Gods sent me my experience and then I chose them based on that. Kind of hard for me to think this way. I view things very organically... you could call the Sun Ra, or Helios, or Apollo, but it's still the Sun.

So a "rose by any other name" so to speak. And who I pray to depends on the day. While my Virgo tendency is to organize everything, my Gemini tendency is to just do whatever is on my mind, and when it comes to the spiritual part of my life, rather than the analytical part, I just do whatever is on my mind. Still, there are things that resonate very strongly for me as well, and it gives my beliefs a certain "flavor."

Original post: sami999x

Back when I was 18, I met 2 psychokinetists in South-Asia that told me I was gonna meet my "wife" in my dreams. And then I met a Hindu mystic who said the same thing about my "wife" and about "my wife being an absolute goddess". And then when I was 20, I started meeting my patron deity in my dreams. I was misguided away from Her for a while by a bunch of misguided do-gooders with egos that made them think of themselves as "adepts" that are "on the side of God/gods" and "saving me because I'm a foolish child". And when I reunited with her, I found out that the deity and I were married back in an early life in ancient Europe.

Original post: Beckett

Interesting little thread that's going here, I do think gods choose their followers. I think that ritualism and, prayer does little other then to try to attract the attention of the deity in question. I think this is the reason why some people "follow" a deity but, they get nothing out of it beyond the typical religious feelings.

I haven't talked to or had dreams of a deity yet, or at least I don't remember any communication. I wouldn't mind meeting a deity thought, I always liked Thoth he seems like the kind of deity I could learn quite a bit from.

Original post: Gala

I have always been attracted to the Egyptian pantheon; Set, Isis, Ptah and Anubis in particular. It wasn't until the most perfect, clear, golden dream in which I met both Set and Ptah did I finally feel that it was right. It was just a dream, but it's intensity has given me the confidence to explore it; it was the right time. Maybe our experiences or feelings just resonate us towards particular deities.

Original post: Naomi Chan

You dreamed about Ptah, mind elucidating the dream? I bet it's cool...

Original post: Darkwater

Was Ptah husband of Sekhmet?If so,what a guy.His name sounds kinda unnuterable,wouldn't you say?

Cheers

Andy

Original post: Naomi Chan

I said it, once - right after I kissed death on the lips.

Original post: Semangelof

My humble opinion is that it can works both ways,
but being choosen is probably way better.
But then again I feel it's hard to know the difference,
maybe there is no difference...

Original post: Darkwater

In my case,you do stuff that attracts their attention in Astral.If they think you are ok,want stuff from you & can help you,then you will be groomed & approached,or approached & groomed.

Trade among the Pantheon is good if you do a good job & get paid,or just take stuff you come across(theft by finding not being a crime out there,just yer good fortune)lol

I like inter-pantheon relations too,which is nice.