please define 'truth' in the context of your usage. why only 'one' truth?EtuMalku;372502 wrote:Gnostically speaking, there can be only one truth . . .
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Original post: astral projectionist
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Original post: EtuMalku
[QUOTE=astral projectionist;372539]please define 'truth' in the context of your usage. why only 'one' truth?[/QUOTE]Truth as in the altruistic end to everything. For example: there is either God or there is not God, I am not interested in your or my perception of what God is or isn't, only if God exists or doesn't. This is gnosis / Universal truths.
[QUOTE=astral projectionist;372539]please define 'truth' in the context of your usage. why only 'one' truth?[/QUOTE]Truth as in the altruistic end to everything. For example: there is either God or there is not God, I am not interested in your or my perception of what God is or isn't, only if God exists or doesn't. This is gnosis / Universal truths.
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Original post: bellenigma
[QUOTE=EtuMalku;372441]The soul longs for its own purification after physical death, this is not suffering in the sense of how we know it in the Physical, but it is nonetheless a form of suffering while the soul disconnects itself from the materialistic chains that we have bound ourselves by.
Let me add that the stronger the chains we have bound ourselves the greater the task of disconnection and this Karmic event is remembered by the soul upon its reincarnation, hopefully we use it to spiritually grow.[/QUOTE]
Okay, yeah... the soul doesn't need purification. Purification of what? People may have psychological issues that prevent spiritual growth, but once you reincarnate you start over with whatever experience you have from your previous life. When you are reincarnated you keep whatever spiritual growth you do in each lifetime until you either join god if you're light or you individuate if you're dark.
Karma is not something the dark believes in. Who determines that karma? The universe? Your own soul? Nah... That doesn't make sense. Why should your actions during each lifetime need to be punished for in the after life? What you have to worry about is cause and effect.
[QUOTE=EtuMalku;372441]The soul longs for its own purification after physical death, this is not suffering in the sense of how we know it in the Physical, but it is nonetheless a form of suffering while the soul disconnects itself from the materialistic chains that we have bound ourselves by.
Let me add that the stronger the chains we have bound ourselves the greater the task of disconnection and this Karmic event is remembered by the soul upon its reincarnation, hopefully we use it to spiritually grow.[/QUOTE]
Okay, yeah... the soul doesn't need purification. Purification of what? People may have psychological issues that prevent spiritual growth, but once you reincarnate you start over with whatever experience you have from your previous life. When you are reincarnated you keep whatever spiritual growth you do in each lifetime until you either join god if you're light or you individuate if you're dark.
Karma is not something the dark believes in. Who determines that karma? The universe? Your own soul? Nah... That doesn't make sense. Why should your actions during each lifetime need to be punished for in the after life? What you have to worry about is cause and effect.
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Original post: bellenigma
[QUOTE=astral projectionist;372452]multiple paths exist. it doesn't have to be strictly one way or another. and still more paths exist which haven't been listed.[/QUOTE]
lol I get that. Of course multiple paths exist. When I asked what you saw for yourself in the afterlife, I meant you specifically. What path do you follow? I just wanted to know if you planned on reincaranting, living in the astral, or joining god. Not what other people will do... just you.
[QUOTE=astral projectionist;372452]multiple paths exist. it doesn't have to be strictly one way or another. and still more paths exist which haven't been listed.[/QUOTE]
lol I get that. Of course multiple paths exist. When I asked what you saw for yourself in the afterlife, I meant you specifically. What path do you follow? I just wanted to know if you planned on reincaranting, living in the astral, or joining god. Not what other people will do... just you.
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Original post: bellenigma
[QUOTE=Jenfucius;372487]The problem with the concepts of LHP & RHP is that there are some overlapping. Which blurrs everything.
see discussion here:
http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=29669[/QUOTE]
I agree. LHP and RHP do blur... especially considering that many LHPs can be "light" and not "dark". Although some may claim to be dark. Dark paganism is not dark. Satanism is not dark. But both can still be categorized under LHP. You should have read farther than the first line of my post. Dark spirituality as defined to me, is not just an LHP. Dark is not equivalent to LHP in this path.
[QUOTE=Jenfucius;372487]The problem with the concepts of LHP & RHP is that there are some overlapping. Which blurrs everything.
see discussion here:
http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=29669[/QUOTE]
I agree. LHP and RHP do blur... especially considering that many LHPs can be "light" and not "dark". Although some may claim to be dark. Dark paganism is not dark. Satanism is not dark. But both can still be categorized under LHP. You should have read farther than the first line of my post. Dark spirituality as defined to me, is not just an LHP. Dark is not equivalent to LHP in this path.
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Original post: bellenigma
[QUOTE=Jenfucius;372488](respectfully)
It depends on who you talk too.
Some would say Hell are simply different dimension(s).[/QUOTE]
Haha... yeah, everything is relative. Wouldn't want to upset anybody.
Well just so you guys know. In dark spirituality, the concept of "hell" does not exist. But there are a lot of places in the astral and dimensions though. And heaven is something quite different than what Christians, Jews, and Muslims and whatever else I forgot to mention, may imagine it to be.
[QUOTE=Jenfucius;372488](respectfully)
It depends on who you talk too.
Some would say Hell are simply different dimension(s).[/QUOTE]
Haha... yeah, everything is relative. Wouldn't want to upset anybody.
Well just so you guys know. In dark spirituality, the concept of "hell" does not exist. But there are a lot of places in the astral and dimensions though. And heaven is something quite different than what Christians, Jews, and Muslims and whatever else I forgot to mention, may imagine it to be.
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Original post: bellenigma
[QUOTE=EtuMalku;372502]Gnostically speaking, there can be only one truth . . . and who is it that holds this truth?
Ahh, the Mysteries of our lives . . . Eros - Logos - Mythos[/QUOTE]
Yeah, every person has to discover truth for themself. The best way to do that is through first-hand experience.
[QUOTE=EtuMalku;372502]Gnostically speaking, there can be only one truth . . . and who is it that holds this truth?
Ahh, the Mysteries of our lives . . . Eros - Logos - Mythos[/QUOTE]
Yeah, every person has to discover truth for themself. The best way to do that is through first-hand experience.
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Original post: EtuMalku
Em hotep bellenigma:
Of course the soul needs to be purified from its physical attachment. After Death the soul needs to understand it is no longer attached to the physical being and it must rid itself of all the baggage acquired during the beings' physical lifetime.
I never mentioned 'punishment' as you stated, that is an Abrahamic thought.
Would you define what you call 'cause & effect'?
Em hotep bellenigma:
Of course the soul needs to be purified from its physical attachment. After Death the soul needs to understand it is no longer attached to the physical being and it must rid itself of all the baggage acquired during the beings' physical lifetime.
Mortal humans do not retain their previous incarnation lessons, they may be accessible through Akashic records. Whereas you would be incarnated a step up the ladder Spiritually, you would not recall as to how you were, it is from there where you would hopefully move forward and not regress.. . . but once you reincarnate you start over with whatever experience you have from your previous life. When you are reincarnated you keep whatever spiritual growth you do in each lifetime
I would not agree with this. Being an Asetianist I study and follow LHP's and Karmic principles certainly apply. Karmic principles are Universal Laws, yes. Who determines their outcome? Why your Higher-Self does within the Laws set in the Spiritual Plane. You answer to yourself Eros - Logos - Mythos.Karma is not something the dark believes in.
I never mentioned 'punishment' as you stated, that is an Abrahamic thought.
Would you define what you call 'cause & effect'?
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Original post: bellenigma
[QUOTE=EtuMalku;372546]Truth as in the altruistic end to everything. For example: there is either God or there is not God, I am not interested in your or my perception of what God is or isn't, only if God exists or doesn't. This is gnosis / Universal truths.[/QUOTE]
Well everyone's right... it's just they have a different perspective on things. I mean it doesn't really matter if you find truth or not. The world will still be what it is. That's not going to change with knowledge of whether god exists or not. Then again truth is very important for the dark individual since if they don't know, it would be hard for them to individuate as they could not prepare. But I mean people can still figure it out on their own after so many lives. Obviously, since it's been done before.
[QUOTE=EtuMalku;372546]Truth as in the altruistic end to everything. For example: there is either God or there is not God, I am not interested in your or my perception of what God is or isn't, only if God exists or doesn't. This is gnosis / Universal truths.[/QUOTE]
Well everyone's right... it's just they have a different perspective on things. I mean it doesn't really matter if you find truth or not. The world will still be what it is. That's not going to change with knowledge of whether god exists or not. Then again truth is very important for the dark individual since if they don't know, it would be hard for them to individuate as they could not prepare. But I mean people can still figure it out on their own after so many lives. Obviously, since it's been done before.
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Original post: EtuMalku
No . . . I am right! KIDDING!!!
I agree with you and I have been sort of agreeing with you, merely posing different angles pf perspective.
Indeed the Truth is not really needed to know for certain as long as you are following a tried and true path that has led to a particular outcome.
Bella please tell me about your 'Light & Dark' concepts?
No . . . I am right! KIDDING!!!
I agree with you and I have been sort of agreeing with you, merely posing different angles pf perspective.
Indeed the Truth is not really needed to know for certain as long as you are following a tried and true path that has led to a particular outcome.
Bella please tell me about your 'Light & Dark' concepts?
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Original post: bellenigma
[QUOTE=EtuMalku;372560]Em hotep bellenigma:
Of course the soul needs to be purified from its physical attachment. After Death the soul needs to understand it is no longer attached to the physical being and it must rid itself of all the baggage acquired during the beings' physical lifetime.
Mortal humans do not retain their previous incarnation lessons, they may be accessible through Akashic records. Whereas you would be incarnated a step up the ladder Spiritually, you would not recall as to how you were, it is from there where you would hopefully move forward and not regress.
I would not agree with this. Being an Asetianist I study and follow LHP's and Karmic principles certainly apply. Karmic principles are Universal Laws, yes. Who determines their outcome? Why your Higher-Self does within the Laws set in the Spiritual Plane. You answer to yourself Eros - Logos - Mythos.
I never mentioned 'punishment' as you stated, that is an Abrahamic thought.
Would you define what you call 'cause & effect'?[/QUOTE]
What does Em hotep mean?
I don't think the baggage from the physical can stay with the spirit. Only the spiritual stuff is brought into the next life. I didn't mean incarnation lessons, I meant spiritual growth. That shouldn't disappear.
Dark spirituality is probably not something you've studied before. So don't expect it to be the same as all LHPs.
I mean by cause and effect as a non-personal law of the universe. If you drop an egg, it breaks. Karma indicates something more personal, not just a simple action with it's consequential effect. Karma means to either educate or even punish or reward the actions of the individual, or both. To those of the Dark, having the ability to track cause and effect 'chain' of results helps the individual evade or counter any negative effects from your actions that would not benefit yourself.
[QUOTE=EtuMalku;372560]Em hotep bellenigma:
Of course the soul needs to be purified from its physical attachment. After Death the soul needs to understand it is no longer attached to the physical being and it must rid itself of all the baggage acquired during the beings' physical lifetime.
Mortal humans do not retain their previous incarnation lessons, they may be accessible through Akashic records. Whereas you would be incarnated a step up the ladder Spiritually, you would not recall as to how you were, it is from there where you would hopefully move forward and not regress.
I would not agree with this. Being an Asetianist I study and follow LHP's and Karmic principles certainly apply. Karmic principles are Universal Laws, yes. Who determines their outcome? Why your Higher-Self does within the Laws set in the Spiritual Plane. You answer to yourself Eros - Logos - Mythos.
I never mentioned 'punishment' as you stated, that is an Abrahamic thought.
Would you define what you call 'cause & effect'?[/QUOTE]
What does Em hotep mean?
I don't think the baggage from the physical can stay with the spirit. Only the spiritual stuff is brought into the next life. I didn't mean incarnation lessons, I meant spiritual growth. That shouldn't disappear.
Dark spirituality is probably not something you've studied before. So don't expect it to be the same as all LHPs.
I mean by cause and effect as a non-personal law of the universe. If you drop an egg, it breaks. Karma indicates something more personal, not just a simple action with it's consequential effect. Karma means to either educate or even punish or reward the actions of the individual, or both. To those of the Dark, having the ability to track cause and effect 'chain' of results helps the individual evade or counter any negative effects from your actions that would not benefit yourself.
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Original post: bellenigma
[QUOTE=EtuMalku;372563]No . . . I am right! KIDDING!!!
I agree with you and I have been sort of agreeing with you, merely posing different angles pf perspective.
Indeed the Truth is not really needed to know for certain as long as you are following a tried and true path that has led to a particular outcome.
Bella please tell me about your 'Light & Dark' concepts?[/QUOTE]
Sure, should have better explained it in the first place. I'll try my best.
Dark seeks individuality, whilst Light seeks unity basically.
Dark and light does not have the same meaning in dark spirituality as it does in other religions. Dark is not negative, it is not an absence of light either. It is an energy equally present as light. The push and pull of both energies, having them in opposition of each other eternally is what makes Manifest be.
I'm not saying that dark and light don't balance each other. We need both for Manifest. The duality and balance of dark and light energies is needed in the cosmos. Yet these two energies still have very different properties. See, like if you get a deck of cards, shuffle them, and then turn them over... you'll find some cards of the same color together. This is the same way in the cosmos. Although there are equal amounts of both energies in the world, some areas can have predominantly one energy than the other. That is why some humans are born dark and others light. I just happen to be made up of dark energy instead of light energy. There is no need to be dark more than light and vice versa. It is just what my nature consists of. On a cosmic level the energies still balance, still depend on each other to make up Manifest.
[QUOTE=EtuMalku;372563]No . . . I am right! KIDDING!!!
I agree with you and I have been sort of agreeing with you, merely posing different angles pf perspective.
Indeed the Truth is not really needed to know for certain as long as you are following a tried and true path that has led to a particular outcome.
Bella please tell me about your 'Light & Dark' concepts?[/QUOTE]
Sure, should have better explained it in the first place. I'll try my best.
Dark seeks individuality, whilst Light seeks unity basically.
Dark and light does not have the same meaning in dark spirituality as it does in other religions. Dark is not negative, it is not an absence of light either. It is an energy equally present as light. The push and pull of both energies, having them in opposition of each other eternally is what makes Manifest be.
I'm not saying that dark and light don't balance each other. We need both for Manifest. The duality and balance of dark and light energies is needed in the cosmos. Yet these two energies still have very different properties. See, like if you get a deck of cards, shuffle them, and then turn them over... you'll find some cards of the same color together. This is the same way in the cosmos. Although there are equal amounts of both energies in the world, some areas can have predominantly one energy than the other. That is why some humans are born dark and others light. I just happen to be made up of dark energy instead of light energy. There is no need to be dark more than light and vice versa. It is just what my nature consists of. On a cosmic level the energies still balance, still depend on each other to make up Manifest.
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Original post: EtuMalku
You seem pretty sure of yourself with your ideas
Em hotep is an Egyptian greeting . . . 'In Peace'
You seem pretty sure of yourself with your ideas
Em hotep is an Egyptian greeting . . . 'In Peace'
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Original post: bellenigma
[QUOTE=EtuMalku;372586]You seem pretty sure of yourself with your ideas
Em hotep is an Egyptian greeting . . . 'In Peace'[/QUOTE]
LOL I don't want to say I'm sure with these ideas. I've only experienced certain aspects of these ideas and think it's a possibility. I would much rather have more in depth experience, maybe be able to see these energies so that I have hard evidence before I go around saying "this is what I believe". Currently, I am in a state of isolation from the spiritual world. I had a kind of spiritual trauma when I was younger which resulted in my loss of psychic abilities. Although I'm sure they're there, just dormant. I just am trying my best to explain these ideas so you can learn and discover for yourself. You should visit the link I posted in my first post if you didn't already.
Haha... I was an occultist before I found dark spirituality. I liked it immediately. It reflected how I had always felt, but I had to have someone else tell me I was "dark". Besides, the obvious dislike for light religions and the simple fact that I had very different ideas on how things worked than most, I didn't really discover for myself that I was dark. But hopefully, I'll be able to astral project and get some answers that way. Or at least get my psychic sight back.
[QUOTE=EtuMalku;372586]You seem pretty sure of yourself with your ideas
Em hotep is an Egyptian greeting . . . 'In Peace'[/QUOTE]
LOL I don't want to say I'm sure with these ideas. I've only experienced certain aspects of these ideas and think it's a possibility. I would much rather have more in depth experience, maybe be able to see these energies so that I have hard evidence before I go around saying "this is what I believe". Currently, I am in a state of isolation from the spiritual world. I had a kind of spiritual trauma when I was younger which resulted in my loss of psychic abilities. Although I'm sure they're there, just dormant. I just am trying my best to explain these ideas so you can learn and discover for yourself. You should visit the link I posted in my first post if you didn't already.
Haha... I was an occultist before I found dark spirituality. I liked it immediately. It reflected how I had always felt, but I had to have someone else tell me I was "dark". Besides, the obvious dislike for light religions and the simple fact that I had very different ideas on how things worked than most, I didn't really discover for myself that I was dark. But hopefully, I'll be able to astral project and get some answers that way. Or at least get my psychic sight back.
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Original post: Aurum
Kama Loka - http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/death/de-wqj1.htm
Sorry if you've already answered this question, but what is it you want to survive from? If someone wanted to escape reincarnation, then how would they propose developing spiritually in the context of being a human? If someone was to reunite with God, or it has already happened in the physical plane, I wouldn't see how someone would lose their individuality. The ego is something that gives individuality.
Kama Loka - http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/death/de-wqj1.htm
Sorry if you've already answered this question, but what is it you want to survive from? If someone wanted to escape reincarnation, then how would they propose developing spiritually in the context of being a human? If someone was to reunite with God, or it has already happened in the physical plane, I wouldn't see how someone would lose their individuality. The ego is something that gives individuality.
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Original post: astral projectionist
how can the existence of a God be known for certain?EtuMalku;372546 wrote:I am not interested in your or my perception of what God is or isn't, only if God exists or doesn't. This is gnosis / Universal truths.
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Original post: astral projectionist
my preference would be to enter into a new incarnation prior to physical death, in a context of individuation. does that make sense?bellenigma;372553 wrote:lol I get that. Of course multiple paths exist. When I asked what you saw for yourself in the afterlife, I meant you specifically. What path do you follow? I just wanted to know if you planned on reincaranting, living in the astral, or joining god.
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Original post: EtuMalku
[QUOTE=astral projectionist;372655]how can the existence of a God be known for certain?[/QUOTE]
Well, that is precisely the point I am making, either there is or there isn't and that is what we would all like to know the answer to. Now, the question becomes 'how do we find this out?'
There is a Truth somewhere to this question just as there is a Truth to every question . . . this is gnosis.
[QUOTE=astral projectionist;372655]how can the existence of a God be known for certain?[/QUOTE]
Well, that is precisely the point I am making, either there is or there isn't and that is what we would all like to know the answer to. Now, the question becomes 'how do we find this out?'
There is a Truth somewhere to this question just as there is a Truth to every question . . . this is gnosis.
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Original post: astral projectionist
i believe that this would require omniscience on our part to figure out. we may simply theorize.EtuMalku;372658 wrote:Now, the question becomes 'how do we find this out?'
i'm agnostic in this context.There is a Truth somewhere to this question just as there is a Truth to every question . . . this is gnosis.
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Original post: EtuMalku
[QUOTE=astral projectionist;372661]i believe that this would require omniscience on our part to figure out. we may simply theorize.
i'm agnostic in this context.[/QUOTE]You mean you are Agnostic on this topic until it is proven one way or the other! :evil:
[QUOTE=astral projectionist;372661]i believe that this would require omniscience on our part to figure out. we may simply theorize.
i'm agnostic in this context.[/QUOTE]You mean you are Agnostic on this topic until it is proven one way or the other! :evil:
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Original post: astral projectionist
i'd go a bit further, and say that it can't be proven one way or another short of omniscience. it's impossible for anyone to know.EtuMalku;372662 wrote:You mean you are Agnostic on this topic until it is proven one way or the other!
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Original post: EtuMalku
You sound as if you are certain of this?
Myself, I have decided along time ago, that what some call God is but the Consciousness of our Universe and nothing more, created through the balance of vibrations that were set into place from the Big Bang.
You sound as if you are certain of this?
Myself, I have decided along time ago, that what some call God is but the Consciousness of our Universe and nothing more, created through the balance of vibrations that were set into place from the Big Bang.
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Original post: bellenigma
[QUOTE=Aurum;372649]Kama Loka - http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/death/de-wqj1.htm
Sorry if you've already answered this question, but what is it you want to survive from? If someone wanted to escape reincarnation, then how would they propose developing spiritually in the context of being a human? If someone was to reunite with God, or it has already happened in the physical plane, I wouldn't see how someone would lose their individuality. The ego is something that gives individuality.[/QUOTE]
The goal is to exist. One must do what it takes to be able to live. I am mostly refering to spiritual survival though. The astral is filled with entities that kill each other to live. It is your energy that they are after. Those dark try to not be the victim in these situations. While you are still living in the physical plane, this gives you time to develop your psychic abilities and spirituality so that you can Individuate or escape the reincarnation cycle, and furthermore survive in the astral. I have been told that you will know when you are capable of Individuating.
You lose your free-will when you join god, therefore your "self". God or heaven is this global consciousness made up of light energy, it accumulates souls and each soul just becomes another countless vote as part of that "whole". They become "one".
When I speak of Individuality, I mean our core essence, our internal awareness, and our free-will.
[QUOTE=Aurum;372649]Kama Loka - http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/death/de-wqj1.htm
Sorry if you've already answered this question, but what is it you want to survive from? If someone wanted to escape reincarnation, then how would they propose developing spiritually in the context of being a human? If someone was to reunite with God, or it has already happened in the physical plane, I wouldn't see how someone would lose their individuality. The ego is something that gives individuality.[/QUOTE]
The goal is to exist. One must do what it takes to be able to live. I am mostly refering to spiritual survival though. The astral is filled with entities that kill each other to live. It is your energy that they are after. Those dark try to not be the victim in these situations. While you are still living in the physical plane, this gives you time to develop your psychic abilities and spirituality so that you can Individuate or escape the reincarnation cycle, and furthermore survive in the astral. I have been told that you will know when you are capable of Individuating.
You lose your free-will when you join god, therefore your "self". God or heaven is this global consciousness made up of light energy, it accumulates souls and each soul just becomes another countless vote as part of that "whole". They become "one".
When I speak of Individuality, I mean our core essence, our internal awareness, and our free-will.
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Original post: astral projectionist
as certain as i can be, although one may argue that every 'fact' which a mind can know is merely theory.EtuMalku;372667 wrote:You sound as if you are certain of this?
i call this the 'metaverse'. it is nonetheless a theory which cannot be proven.Myself, I have decided along time ago, that what some call God is but the Consciousness of our Universe and nothing more,
the 'metaverse' theory may contain the idea that an infinity of universes are born and die with an infinity of big bangs.created through the balance of vibrations that were set into place from the Big Bang.
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Dark Spirituality - Xenognosis
Original post: EtuMalku
[QUOTE=astral projectionist;372670]as certain as i can be, although one may argue that every 'fact' which a mind can know is merely theory.
i call this the 'metaverse'. it is nonetheless a theory which cannot be proven.
the 'metaverse' theory may contain the idea that an infinity of universes are born and die with an infinity of big bangs.[/QUOTE]This is not the virtual world from Neal Stephenson's 1992 science fiction novel Snow Crash I hope?
[QUOTE=astral projectionist;372670]as certain as i can be, although one may argue that every 'fact' which a mind can know is merely theory.
i call this the 'metaverse'. it is nonetheless a theory which cannot be proven.
the 'metaverse' theory may contain the idea that an infinity of universes are born and die with an infinity of big bangs.[/QUOTE]This is not the virtual world from Neal Stephenson's 1992 science fiction novel Snow Crash I hope?