Original post: funquie
[QUOTE=White Ghost;374368]Ceremonial magick is associated with old bearded patriarchs. I know of no grimoire written by a woman or that prominently mentions one.
One usually associates witchcraft with women or gay men; and Wicca, despite its having been founded by a man.
Vampyre covens, which may use magick, are often headed by women.
All the chaos writers I know of are men: Carroll, Spare, Hine, Sherwin...
Most of the Satanist churches I know of were founded by men: Lavey, Aquino...[/QUOTE]
This is perhaps the most absurd assertion I've read on this forum.
WhiteGhost, either you are a rabid sexist trying to promulgate a twisted hidden agenda to denigrate women in Magick, or you are completely culturally illiterate when it comes to the contemporary history of Western Magick...
Women in Ceremonial Magick and Chaos Magick:
http://www.goetia-girls.com/homepage.html
http://www.jaqdhawkins.co.uk/Books.php
(BTW, Jaq is perhaps one of the most LUCID current writers on Chaos Magick)
The current incarnation of the Zee List (a Yahoo group) has a LARGE population of active, lucid, and insightful women, who make up a high percentage of the regular posters, and seem to have a really good read on the 21st century Chaos current, and have a lot of good ideas as far as reality-hacking, ritual design, and technique development.
How about the current contributions of women to Satanism/DarkSide Magick? Ever hear of:
Leila Waddell (Lilith/Azazel author), Karla LaVey (Anton's first-borne daughter, and founder of First Satanic Church), Blanche Barton (current head of CoS), or Zeena Schreck (daughter of Anton LaVey and astoundingly lucid author on SexMagick).
Heck, a good argument can be made that Satanism is practically DOMINATED by women these days--most of the "real" Satanists I've ever met are women--most of the men I've met who call themselves Satanists are just wankers and poseurs. (maybe I'm just unlucky that way, but it's been my experience.) I'll admit that my personal experiences ARE anecdotal, but when you look at who is actually RUNNING most of the "official" Satanist groups out there these days, the VAST majority of them that are actually DOING anything are being headed up by Women.
You didn't mention the OTO. I can tell you, and I know this as FACT, that in the US OTO, the ONLY groups that are maintaining active memberships, growing their ranks, and either already own their own property or are working quickly toward that goal are Lodges that are either headed up by Women, or have a majority of women members, like Blake Lodge in the Baltimore MD, and Scarlet Women Lodge in Austin TX. In fact, if it weren't for these two lodges, and their contributions, the Caliphate OTO in the USA would be nearing complete bankruptcy, financially AND Magickally...
As far as Witches and covens being generally associated with Women and Gay Men, then, bro, you have some SERIOUS issues with that perception, or else the covens you've been exposed to are just NOT the norm. I've worked with covens that had bikers, blacksmiths, active-duty Army Rangers, and EMT's. Pretty "manly" by your definition. Most of the covens I've worked with are VERY balanced as far as masculine and feminine energy, and aren't hampered or constrained by these sexist preconceptions of male and female "roles". The Witches I know tend to be pretty open-minded when it comes to societal roles, and don't let things like Victorian Sexist programming set their place in the world, or in their Magickal Circles.
Witchcraft has gotten a bad rap for the last 10 years or so, ESPECIALLY West-Coast Witchcraft in the US, due to it's infiltration by Radical Feminists with their propaganda agenda of Historical Revisionism, which is even MORE historically and factually flawed that the rubbish published by the Victorians that they sought to replace. This feminist propaganda has given the general public the idea that all witches are feminist nutcases, who believe in some sort of Matriarchal Eutopia in the ancient past, and who blame all the ills of modern society on the phallus-waving Patriarchal Rapists who have controlled the whole world for the last 2000 years. If you REALLY look at balanced covens, and practitioners of "traditional" Wicca and well-functioning Eclectic covens, you will find that most of them are pretty balanced as far as sex and gender go, and tend to be more concerned with each individual's powers and skills than some sort of Victorian preconceptions about sex roles and gender placement...
As far as grimoires not being written by women, I'd venture to say that this might have something to do with the fact that most Grimoires were written in the Medieval era, when it was a CRIME punishable by DEATH in most cultures (Chrirstian, Arabic, and even some Jewish cultures) for women to be able to read and write. Perhaps ENFORCED illiteracy has something to do with that, eh? On the other hand, there ARE several Apocryphal books from the New Testament that WERE penned by women, and most of them are pretty magickal, like the Book of Mary. There is also speculation that the accepted gospels of Mark and Luke were penned by women, judging by their subject matter...
I'm not trying to be some sort of neo-feminist historical revisionist, and I CERTAINLY don't believe in the whole "all patriarchy is evil" worldview espoused by some of the more radical Dianic types these days, but your views of women in Magick are simply bizarre, and show that you either have a dangerously sexist agenda, or are sadly culturally illiterate and unaware.
You REALLY need to re-evaluate your positions on sex, gender, societal roles, and social programming. One of these days you're going to make one of these ridiculous statements in front of somebody who is going to take it PERSONALLY, and you're going to get smacked down, either physically or Magickally...
And what is this obsession with the word "manly" anyway? What the hell does "manly" even mean? From the way you've described it, it sounds like "Manly" means some sort of overcompensation for repressed homosexual urges, with regards to your James Bond references, and anti-gay/anti-female remarks. And all that stuff about "integrity, dedication, etc" is just ridiculous. Have you ever seen a mother protecting her child? I think THAT is perhaps the most fearful, powerful, agressive forces in the universe--a mother protecting her child. Now THAT is a force to be reckoned with...
Asking "is Magick Manly" is like asking if penises are gay...
Yes it is (they are), if you want to (or need to) see it that way.
But in and of itself, Magick is no more or less Manly than dancing, blacksmithing, baking, plowing a field, Ikebana, or being able to double-tap a .45acp...
The whole concept of "manly" has no place in the mind of a free-thinking 21st century human, and is PARTICULARLY egregious coming from someone who professes to be a practitioner of Magick--a path that is SUPPOSED to be aimed at personal development, cultural evolution, and personal mind-expansion.
Dude, you need to SERIOUSLY adjust your attitude, and open your mind a little. You've obviously got access to the Internet--maybe you should actually USE IT to look at someting outside of this forum now and then. There is some REALLY interesting stuff out there, and a LOT of it has been created by women...
--Funquie
way too many close ups to the main singerâ??s face. And is that some kind of fake punk/oi band. I find that offensive since Iâ??m an oi punk. . . :mad: