OccultForum.org

JohnTitor wrote:I very much enjoyed reading your additions Eternal. I still think that the issue of WILLING participants has yet to be covered/fixed. Clockwork_Ghost has requested any of us interested in teaching to message about what possible areas said participants may be capable of teaching and to what degree. I think I am going to take an introspective assessment of my own ability and knowledge, and find where it is I am the best suited for helping others learn from STEP 1 It would benefit the site greatly, as well as the discussion if- even those of us who think we aren't fit for teaching still assess their knowledge and ability within each paradigm of practice and study. I do believe that there must be a catalyst to get this to come to fruition, and I hope that as a team and online family of sorts, we can overcome this watcher on the threshold together. Seems to me as though he has been here from the beginning.

Thank you for your kind words. [smile] I'm looking forward to see what you can contribute in the role of teacher, you seem to possess a fine deal of experience.

Well if you keep the doors open to anyone who wants to teach, in the long run there should be a lot of study material. If you are learning about something, you can share your knowledge with others after/during your work.

I believe that if it becomes a part of your magical work it could benefit a lot of people and even you. That seems like a good catalyst. I see a tendency to share some insights and knowledge, so the first step is complete. There only must be a platform and few who will break the ice, make it interesting and enjoyable experience, and I think it could very well work.

A little freedom in teaching and who could teach in addition to teachers lounge (which function would be the assessment of quality, advice giving, and molding the course into good shape) could overcome the issue of willing participants and low quality courses.

Clockwork_Ghost wrote:

EternalReturn wrote: That could be a good user magnet. Hidden board which unlocks after some number of posts written.

I'm a little bit unsure as to what you mean here - do you mean a board that unlocks after it contains a certain number of posts, or a board that is unlocked after a member posts a certain number of times to the forum?

Second one. But when I think about it, it may be counterproductive - it could slow things down.

Clockwork_Ghost wrote:

EternalReturn wrote: Concerning user types, if a Teacher wishes to be a student it doesn't mean you should change his/her's role. Teacher's a teacher, an he can return to the lounge anytime. He has some experience, and his insights might prove valuable to others.

Thanks for clarifying this. It would suggest however that teachers wouldn't be able to post anything in the teachers lounge which could benefit any student, as there will probably be students in the teachers lounge.

Well, teacher's lounge is for the benefit of both groups, so it's okay. But if it is for students, it should be written in student's section, if it is for teachers it should be written in the teachers lounge.

Say if a teacher is a student also, questions asked about some course should be written in student's section, no matter that the user can see posts and write in the teachers lounge.

Clockwork_Ghost wrote:

EternalReturn wrote: This could fit in with the idea that anyone can write out a curriculum. Before publishing the curriculum to the Student's section, someone posts like a "beta" version in the Teachers lounge, so others can say "hey I don't understand this/you missed this/what are prerequisites" etc.

Interesting idea. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. [thumbup]

Thank you for your questions and time spent reading this

Btw guys I am sorry for not participating in this thread for a while. Recently I am working on my University exam. It will keep me busy for a month. Sorry in advance.

Clockwork_Ghost wrote:

EternalReturn wrote: That could be a good user magnet. Hidden board which unlocks after some number of posts written.

I'm a little bit unsure as to what you mean here - do you mean a board that unlocks after it contains a certain number of posts, or a board that is unlocked after a member posts a certain number of times to the forum?

EternalReturn wrote: Second one. But when I think about it, it may be counterproductive - it could slow things down.

Just a comment concerning this - I'll put together something a bit more in depth in regards to your other points a bit later, but this one really jumped out and I thought it best to add to the thread now before I forget.

A lot of other forums use this system - I used to be a part of a Chaos Magick forum that unlocked Liber MMM themed boards the more you posted. The problem was that you got people posting a bazillion comments in 'What's your favourite colour?' or 'Name the first word that springs to mind' style threads, and immediately unlocking the whole forum. Making a forum that is post-count activated is a good way to attract stupid and pointless 'yeah, that's a great idea!' style posts, and stops people who just want to focus on one specific paradigm or idea from advancing as quickly as the people spamming their way through the non-magick themed threads.

EternalReturn wrote: Well, teacher's lounge is for the benefit of both groups, so it's okay. But if it is for students, it should be written in student's section, if it is for teachers it should be written in the teachers lounge.

Say if a teacher is a student also, questions asked about some course should be written in student's section, no matter that the user can see posts and write in the teachers lounge.

I see. So where would you post material that can't be seen by any student, even the students who used to be teachers, and therefore have access to the teachers’ lounge? Would such material remain with the teacher until such a time that it is suitable for student-teachers to view it?

EternalReturn wrote: This could fit in with the idea that anyone can write out a curriculum. Before publishing the curriculum to the Student's section, someone posts like a "beta" version in the Teachers lounge, so others can say "hey I don't understand this/you missed this/what are prerequisites" etc.

But if there are ex-teacher students in the teachers’ lounge, wouldn’t that unfairly benefit them as they would be able to have input into development of the material?

Love the ideas - please keep them flowing [thumbup]

Clockwork_Ghost wrote:

EternalReturn wrote: Well, teacher's lounge is for the benefit of both groups, so it's okay. But if it is for students, it should be written in student's section, if it is for teachers it should be written in the teachers lounge.

Say if a teacher is a student also, questions asked about some course should be written in student's section, no matter that the user can see posts and write in the teachers lounge.

I see. So where would you post material that can't be seen by any student, even the students who used to be teachers, and therefore have access to the teachers’ lounge? Would such material remain with the teacher until such a time that it is suitable for student-teachers to view it?

I don't see the point in limiting student-teacher user. Even if he is student of that particular teacher, why shouldn't he give advice about the course if he can? He's a teacher also, and maybe has some experience that could help this particular teacher. Teacher position comes with this "privilege" if you could call it like that. But in practice is meant to keep things simple.

Clockwork_Ghost wrote:

EternalReturn wrote: This could fit in with the idea that anyone can write out a curriculum. Before publishing the curriculum to the Student's section, someone posts like a "beta" version in the Teachers lounge, so others can say "hey I don't understand this/you missed this/what are prerequisites" etc.

But if there are ex-teacher students in the teachers’ lounge, wouldn’t that unfairly benefit them as they would be able to have input into development of the material?

Love the ideas - please keep them flowing [thumbup]

How do you define ex-teacher and why should he be banned from seeing his work again, discussions with other teachers, and work done by them? If he has done his work (as I mentioned above) he has an experience, and his insight might prove valuable.

If he doesn't want to see the section, you place him in the common user group and all's well.

Concerning unfair benefit - I cannot see this as a competition so I don't see how can one benefit more. Even with the input into the development of the material. He still needs to practice it and/or make some homework. The course should be developed to be more clarifying, understandable, easy to read and such cosmetic, and logical additions & changes - which doesn't change much of the core concept.

When I think about that, I see that there is much to be gained and practically nothing lost if the ex-teachers and student-teachers are allowed to see the Lounge.



And I must say, most people tell me to shut up when I start with my ideas (I have a lot of ideas). It's good to have a different opinion also, thank you [thumbup]

EternalReturn wrote:I must say, most people tell me to shut up when I start with my ideas (I have a lot of ideas). It's good to have a different opinion also, thank you [thumbup]

No problem - I love to discuss things with people, especially with people like you who don't get ridiculously defensive when other people question their ideas or ask for an explanation of key points.

I understand where you're coming from now, and agree with you 100%. There are still a couple of really big questions to ask though, namely:

1. How do we attract students? Changes to the board would take Vashta to either do it himself or show me how the mechanics works. Vashta is extremely busy outside of the forum, and his time is very precious. If we are going to rebuild the forum structure then we're going to need a greater buy in from prospective students.

2. Where do we get the teachers from? I have had no responses at all to my call for teaching staff. The Study groups board, which could be considered a Beta Test for the school, has two topics running, neither of which have any replies at all.

First of all, you shouldn't expect large quantity of users and teachers before you even start with this. Or in a few months. This can be a long process, but there are a lot of active users here so I could be wrong [grin]


Concerning these points you made:

1. This could be done with basic content marketing. You have this facebook page? Make a few posts there, ask people to share on their walls, blogs, other social networks. Ask them to like your posts. Make your reach as high as you can and you can do that with paid ads or organic path (likes and shares raise it up).

As for technical part of this - as far as I remember the admin panel of phpbb, it is relatively easy to use. To make this user groups and sections, one should not spend more than half an hour to do so. You could also simply add these sections instead of rebuilding whole forum structure.

2. This is the tricky one. It should be clear that teaching work is not a waste of time, that it can correlate with your own practices, insight and knowledge, and could be a good practice for all who want to write (or write) books/blogposts about the occult. One can repeat what he learned, so it benefits him also.

This could be investigated further to simply ask those who could teach but choose not to. To find the reasons why and take further actions with their criticism in mind.

Tbh, Study groups is sort of misleading. I've seen these attempts at making the functional magick system based on Elder Scrolls (which is awesome btw), and it didn't cross me as a place where you can learn something, but rather read the experiences and shared knowledge of the members. This is why I'm presenting this idea in a way that teachers make posts in a similar manner as Vsociety.

EternalReturn wrote: First of all, you shouldn't expect large quantity of users and teachers before you even start with this. Or in a few months. This can be a long process, but there are a lot of active users here so I could be wrong [grin]

Yeah, definitely would be. Pick a number between one and 8,517. How many active members? Seriously, not being facetious - how many active members do you reckon we have right at this moment? Also, if you can tell me how to actually find out that number using the forum engine I will let you know the exact number. [grin]

EternalReturn wrote: 1. This could be done with basic content marketing. You have this facebook page? Make a few posts there, ask people to share on their walls, blogs, other social networks. Ask them to like your posts. Make your reach as high as you can and you can do that with paid ads or organic path (likes and shares raise it up).

Yep, advertising on the Occult Forum.org Facebook page, my tarot card page, and on my company website. I keep asking people to share on their walls, not getting anywhere so far as far as I can see. Could be wrong, I can't obviously see everyone's walls. As for paid ads, the cheapest Facebook ad runs at $7, and will basically go out to nobody. None of the staff make any money off this forum, and paying for advertising would come out of our own pockets. I don't know about any other staff members, but I definitely can't afford to pay real money to advertise something that gives me no financial return. There's already a post on the Site discussion board asking people to get the word out there - it's called Getting the word out there.

EternalReturn wrote: As for technical part of this - as far as I remember the admin panel of phpbb, it is relatively easy to use. To make this user groups and sections, one should not spend more than half an hour to do so. You could also simply add these sections instead of rebuilding whole forum structure.

Cool. I'll check it out later.

EternalReturn wrote: 2. This is the tricky one. It should be clear that teaching work is not a waste of time, that it can correlate with your own practices, insight and knowledge, and could be a good practice for all who want to write (or write) books/blogposts about the occult. One can repeat what he learned, so it benefits him also.

Definitely, though time is the issue too - I'm working full time, running the forum, building my own business, running three other Facebook pages, and hosting a development group for my own business. I simply don't have time to also teach in a school.

EternalReturn wrote: This could be investigated further to simply ask those who could teach but choose not to. To find the reasons why and take further actions with their criticism in mind.

I'll start another thread concerning this.

EternalReturn wrote: Tbh, Study groups is sort of misleading. I've seen these attempts at making the functional magick system based on Elder Scrolls (which is awesome btw), and it didn't cross me as a place where you can learn something, but rather read the experiences and shared knowledge of the members. This is why I'm presenting this idea in a way that teachers make posts in a similar manner as Vsociety.

Thank you for continuing to share your thoughts. [thumbup]

About VSociety. One of the problems with that forum is that the magick teachers seemed to be too good. I think they enabled a lot of inexperienced people to have their first authentic magical experiences. The result was a whole forum of students cultishly attached to a couple of teachers, praising (or maybe brown-nosing) very single post they made. It freaked me out, and I don't want our forum to acquire that same cultish vibe. Whether or not it is intended, having a school will change the casual relationships on this forum into teacher-student relationships. If that happens, the teachers need to resist feeling self-important, and the students need stay grounded in reality somehow. That may be difficult to do, since the anonymous nature of Internet forums lends to drama of all sorts.

Clockwork_Ghost wrote:

EternalReturn wrote: First of all, you shouldn't expect large quantity of users and teachers before you even start with this. Or in a few months. This can be a long process, but there are a lot of active users here so I could be wrong [grin]

Yeah, definitely would be. Pick a number between one and 8,517. How many active members? Seriously, not being facetious - how many active members do you reckon we have right at this moment? Also, if you can tell me how to actually find out that number using the forum engine I will let you know the exact number. [grin]

There should be some statistics implemented in the forum. Or was it a addon? [confused]

But there is something about that here: https://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=2158823

Clockwork_Ghost wrote:

EternalReturn wrote: 1. This could be done with basic content marketing. You have this facebook page? Make a few posts there, ask people to share on their walls, blogs, other social networks. Ask them to like your posts. Make your reach as high as you can and you can do that with paid ads or organic path (likes and shares raise it up).

Yep, advertising on the Occult Forum.org Facebook page, my tarot card page, and on my company website. I keep asking people to share on their walls, not getting anywhere so far as far as I can see. Could be wrong, I can't obviously see everyone's walls. As for paid ads, the cheapest Facebook ad runs at $7, and will basically go out to nobody. None of the staff make any money off this forum, and paying for advertising would come out of our own pockets. I don't know about any other staff members, but I definitely can't afford to pay real money to advertise something that gives me no financial return. There's already a post on the Site discussion board asking people to get the word out there - it's called Getting the word out there.

Yes it is a long process. Only solution to this is to be patient and continue to serve interesting info and all's well. The growth may be seen on 6-month or yearly basis.

I was wondering is it possible to organize a wankhaton to magically help with this [lol] (a joke mind you)

Clockwork_Ghost wrote:

EternalReturn wrote: 2. This is the tricky one. It should be clear that teaching work is not a waste of time, that it can correlate with your own practices, insight and knowledge, and could be a good practice for all who want to write (or write) books/blogposts about the occult. One can repeat what he learned, so it benefits him also.

Definitely, though time is the issue too - I'm working full time, running the forum, building my own business, running three other Facebook pages, and hosting a development group for my own business. I simply don't have time to also teach in a school.

This is the kind of situation I'm talking about (those who can but choose not to). I see you're buried in a lot of work and have no time and energy to do this. It's okay. But I see you like to write, so you might take some time (let it be months, no matter) and write a "textbook" on some type of the magic. There is no need for your interaction anymore after that is complete, and reviewed by other teachers.

I think it could be done like that, but I'm just using your example to try and point out a way to solution - I have no knowledge of your life circumstances. [smile]

Clockwork_Ghost wrote:

EternalReturn wrote: This could be investigated further to simply ask those who could teach but choose not to. To find the reasons why and take further actions with their criticism in mind.

I'll start another thread concerning this.

Fast reaction [thumbup] well done

And I'm just casually pointing out to Frumens's post, 'cause he's right.

Frumens wrote:About VSociety. One of the problems with that forum is that the magick teachers seemed to be too good. I think they enabled a lot of inexperienced people to have their first authentic magical experiences. The result was a whole forum of students cultishly attached to a couple of teachers, praising (or maybe brown-nosing) very single post they made. It freaked me out, and I don't want our forum to acquire that same cultish vibe. Whether or not it is intended, having a school will change the casual relationships on this forum into teacher-student relationships. If that happens, the teachers need to resist feeling self-important, and the students need stay grounded in reality somehow. That may be difficult to do, since the anonymous nature of Internet forums lends to drama of all sorts.

Bugger it. If we get this school off the ground, and I'm not promising we will, I will make time to teach there. I know this sounds like I just want to be worshipped as an all knowing god, but I can assure you that that is not the case. I have no idea how being both an administrator and a teacher would work, but I'm happy to give it a try. [grin]

Clockwork_Ghost wrote:Bugger it. If we get this school off the ground, and I'm not promising we will, I will make time to teach there. I know this sounds like I just want to be worshipped as an all knowing god, but I can assure you that that is not the case. I have no idea how being both an administrator and a teacher would work, but I'm happy to give it a try. [grin]

I think the accidental cult teachers were doing some sort of shaktipat thing. If you can do that, they'll worship you whether you want it or not. By the way, when you say, "I am not a cult leader," that makes you sound like a cult leader. [crazy]

My presence here may lessen drastically in the near future as my current employer just had me sign a document saying that I must abide by a new policy on Internet use. If I don't, I can be instantly dismissed. The policy is probably illegal under New Zealand law, as it's overtly draconian wording sets no clear parameters as to what isn't allowed, but it might change the way I run the forum, and I may have to solely act as an administrator and participate far less.

I've made a few changes to the forum. I will discuss these in detail tomorrow. In the mean time, could someone please tell me which new boards you can see?

Common room. Nothing else new.

Can you also see the three new groups at the bottom of the page?

Yes: Ex-Teachers, Students of Magick, Teachers of Magick.