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Original post: spiritoflove

Hiya has anyone read this book? Here is the link...just that need to ask some questions regarding the meaning of certain words within it...plus if any of you have read it would love to hear your views....

http://www.supertarot.co.uk/resource/tarotbk.htm

Also do any of you know any good books that like this one give in depth interpretations for the cards and layouts....?

In Profound Peace & Light

SpiritofLove

Original post: Caradoc

I have a signed copy of this book, what do you want to ask? I'm not promising I can give you an answer though, but I'll try

Original post: spiritoflove

Hiya,

I started reading it but got lost with the QBR means cave, etc...plus the Ath and the numbers...how do you make sense of it?

So I started to try and read it and absorb what I could...still on first chapter...

Did you understand it from first reading...also can you enlighten me on this...I would be grateful...if not I will have to email Paul himself...He has signed copies available...which I will get one of them because I feel with this one I have it is gonna be well read...

Thanks

SOL

Original post: Caradoc

My apologies for not replying to you sooner.

I actually haven't read the book. I bought it at the Thelemic centenary conference and started to read it but there is a hideous error in the introduction that put me off*. I had spent over £200 on books that day so I had plenty of others to read in the meantime and never really came back to Tarot and The Magus. I was hoping you were just going to ask for "the meaning of certain words within it..." and I could read the relevant bit of the text and maybe help :lol:

I will try to find some time tonight or tomorrow and read through it. I'll get back to you again when I've done that



* The same paragraph is printed twice in slightly different versions suggesting the author had meant to go back and decide which version to include at a later date. He obviously forgot and the proofreaders never picked up on it either. This put me off as it seems little care was taken over the book.

Original post: spiritoflove

Hiya...

Do U know what? I am sure I noticed some mistakes at the beginning....think it was where it was speaking about the queen of wands or there was no explanation of that card...either way there seemed to be something that never made sense....

lol...the thing is the first page or what I read did in some way open up my knowledge further...yet hs website just blinds me to much to look at....

regards

SOL

Original post: Caradoc

The paragraph at the bottom of page 4 and the following one at the top of page 5:

Chapter 7 presents another reading that concerns that perennial favourite of tarot readings, love, and is a good example of how the Querent is interested in one person but the Tarot presents other people who were not considered previously.

With Chapter 7, another reading that concerns that perennial favourite of tarot readings, love, and is a good example of how the Querent is interested in one person but the Tarot presents other people who were not considered previously.

I'm thinking of getting a job proofreading, I could do it from home and I'm very anal about such things so I would be a good choice... anyone out there wanna hire me?

Original post: Caradoc

spiritoflove wrote:Hiya,

I started reading it but got lost with the QBR means cave, etc...plus the Ath and the numbers...how do you make sense of it?

He doesn't explain this very clearly at all does he?

He is talking about Gematria, a system which takes the numerical values of the Hebrew letters and adds the letters of the word together to obtain a total which can then be compared to other words with the same value.

As the Tarot cards are associated with a Hebrew letter, the author is pairing the cards and adding their letters together to obtain a total which will allow him to analyse the nature of the pairing by comparing the total with other words of the same value.

In the QBR example you questioned, he is working it like this:

The Magus card = the letter Beth = the number 2

The Aeon card = the letter Shin = the number 300

Added together they give the value 302

Now find Hebrew words with the value 302 and see what insights you can glean from them:

ARQA = (A=1) + (R=200) + (Q=100) + (A=1) = 302 : ARQA means Earth

QBR = (Q=100) + (B=2) + (R=200) = 302 : QBR means Cave

RQB = 302 : RQB means To Putrefy. The author further expands on 'To Putrefy', claiming it can also represent the birth of the elements in Chokmah, the descent into matter, the diminishing of their purity.

By the end of the section he says that in this pairing we can see a cycle of creation emanating from the Magus, destroyed by the Aeon. The Hebrew words above are supposed to support this reading.

(Hmmm... I don't think I explained it very clearly either :? Any further questions on this, please ask away)

Did you understand it from first reading...also can you enlighten me on this...I would be grateful...if not I will have to email Paul himself...He has signed copies available...which I will get one of them because I feel with this one I have it is gonna be well read...

There are sentences I didn't understand at first reading! The book really is one of the worst written I have picked up in a long while, but if you can wrestle with the terrible grammar and unbelievable lack of proofreading there is really valuable information to be found in there. I just wish someone else had written it

I'm going to continue decyphering the book and will enjoy continuing a discussion on it if you like. I'm happy to try and answer any questions and I'm sure I'll have more than a few myself.

To open this out for others who haven't read the book in question: The main focus of the book, from what I've read so far, is the Golden Dawn's Opening of the Key spread. If anyone has experience of this spread and would like to contribute something, I'm sure it would be welcomed

Original post: spiritoflove

Hiya,

I have decided to read through it without judgement first but I am finding this rather difficult because where it speaks about the two of cups it still looks as though it is on about the two of swords...

this is at the beginning...the thing is you read every review of this book and it is raved over...go to his website and it goes on about pieces missing the thing is do I have the edition with the pieces missing...lol...?

Here is the link... to the left where it says bonus tables and extra tables...god, I just wanted to be able to read the book not have to rewrite the whoel thing...lol..yet I know that once I have mastered this book then I will have confidence to read anywhere...

http://www.supertarot.co.uk/resource/tarotbk.htm

Peace Profound...yet confusion still reigns...lol

Spirit of Love

Original post: spiritoflove

Hiya,

Have you seen that link...I have just looked at it and I am now even more confused...where it goes clockwise/anticlockwise...and the stars, I think these represent the counting...

Surely he could have wrote this book in an easier to understand way...lol

SpiritofLove...

Original post: Caradoc

All those extra tables on the website are a little disconcerting. It's looking more and more like the book was thrown together and rushed into print without much thought at all. Why weren't the tables in the book when it was first released? Why wasn't the time taken to make sure everything was right and everything was included?

If you look at those reviews on Amazon.co.uk again, you will notice that the four of them were written on February 11th, 13th, 14th and 15th, then nothing. Not a single comment since that little flurry of praise. I suspect the author sent out emails or telephoned his associates asking people to post positive reviews around that time. It's quite dishonest if he did do that.

Original post: spiritoflove

Hiya,


Check out this section it might also add extra insights for you... http://www.supertarot.co.uk/astro/12adv.htm

Also if you go to this page... http://www.supertarot.co.uk/resource/resource.htm

Scroll down you will see Prosperos Island...which incidentally is one of the reviewers on amazon uk...
New Angle on an Old Subject, February 13, 2004
Reviewer: prospero_of_kemp_town from Brighton



I have just been speaking to a friend and she tells me when it comes to it in all the best readings she has had the person goes with intuition and for me to be trying to do it all logically is the wrong process...but I know that we need some logic to go forwards...just like studying astrology...lol

Regards

SOL

Ps let me know what you think about all of the above...

Original post: Caradoc

Well intuition is important of course. Having the background knowledge provided by books such as this one does give your intuition more of a base to work from though, if you see what I mean.

Example: I saw a documentary about intuition which examined the case of an experienced fireman who suddenly screamed for all his men to leave the building as a huge backdraught was coming. At the time no-one knew how backdraughts happened and couldn't predict them. The documentary argued that from the fireman's previous experiences he had gathered enough information for his intuition to put the pieces together and suddenly 'click' on the realisation there was a bad situation coming.

So intuition is very important in any area of life, but previous knowledge adds to the accuracy of intuition. I don't think relying on intuition alone is a good way to go with reading for other people, you end up reading body language and the person's response to what you say, instead of reading the cards. Many charlatans work that way and I believe many genuine people work that way without realising that they are doing. I enjoy asking readers what a specific card means after the reading has been done, and then correcting them: it freaks them out :lol: They usually try to argue that their explanation is based on intuition rather than descriptions in books but always sound like cold-readers to me.

I'm not including your friend in either of those categories by the way, I don't know her and wouldn't presume to judge. My best readings are intuitional too, but I have a solid background to feed that intuition.

Another thing about learning from this book is that it's focus is on the magical side of the tarot, though it does discuss a lot of readings and layouts, etc. The back cover even talks about the tarot being used as a tool for attaining the Knowledge and Conversation of the HGA. So there is a lot more to learn from this book than how to successfully 'tell fortunes'.

Original post: spiritoflove

Hiya,

I agree that you need to know the method of the tarot before intuition can come along...

Where does it give explanations about how the words or numbers mean cave etc...do you find that we are going to doing mathematics with it all...but I think if I go by what is explained then this gives the atmosphere environment to the story of the cards...?

Light

SOL

Original post: Caradoc

Where does it give explanations about how the words or numbers mean cave etc...do you find that we are going to doing mathematics with it all...but I think if I go by what is explained then this gives the atmosphere environment to the story of the cards...?

Aleister Crowley's Liber 777 gives lists of Hebrew word by their number. You can find it in the CM Library, Ceremonial Magic forum. I have the book and use it a lot, it's very useful if you are into that sort of thing. You just look up the number and you'll find the Hebrew words listed with their English equivalents.

EDIT - Sorry, I must have been braindead when I wrote the above paragraph. The book with numerical values and corresponding Hebrew words is actually Sepher Sephiroth by Crowley, not Liber 777. I have Sepher Sephiroth in a volume called 777 and Other Qabalistic Writings... that's where the mistake came in. I haven't downloaded the Liber 777 listed in the CM library so I don't know if it includes Sepher Sephiroth but I would guess it doesn't. Try searching for the title with Google and maybe you can find an online version.

Sorry for the confusion

Original post: Caradoc

Sepher Sephiroth in PDF format

http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/liber_d.pdf

Original post: spiritoflove

Dear CaraDoc...

Have you read any other good tarot books - if so do you recommend any?

Also you don't by any chance have the astrological correspondences for all of the cards do you including the minor ones....

I am getting into this book now...

SpiritofLove

Original post: spiritoflove

Hiya,

Is that Liber 777 the whole book?

How does one use that information?

Do I add up the numbers like he says then see what is revealed by that number but then keep totalling it all up to get different meanings than relate them to what the cards are saying?

Hope you can give me a simple answer...lol

Spirit

Original post: Caradoc

spiritoflove wrote:Hiya,

Is that Liber 777 the whole book?

It's Sepher Sephiroth you want. Try the link I posted above

How does one use that information?

Do I add up the numbers like he says then see what is revealed by that number but then keep totalling it all up to get different meanings than relate them to what the cards are saying?

Hope you can give me a simple answer...lol

Spirit

In the book he is adding up the numbers attributed to the cards, through their Hebrew letters, and connecting the number with Hebrew words to give possible further interpretations.

Sepher Sephiroth gives Hebrew words and their numerical value and is useful for all gematrical practices. Gematria is a strange thing with many applications which may or may not have any real value, depending on your view. Here's one example of the interconnectedness of idea encoded (perhaps by accident, perhaps by design) into the Hebrew language:

The Hebrew word for Father is AB. It's value is 3
The Hebrew word for Mother is AM. It's value is 41

Add the numbers for Father and Mother together and you get 44, which is the number of the Hebrew word for Child, YLD. So the math shows how the child is the product of a union between Mother and Father.

Interesting eh?

Original post: Caradoc

spiritoflove wrote:Dear CaraDoc...

Have you read any other good tarot books - if so do you recommend any?

What do you want to learn about the Tarot? I would recommend Aleister Crowley's The Book of Thoth for a good study of tarot, or DuQuette's Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot. Both of these books obviously relate specifically to Crowley's Thoth Tarot, the same cards used in Tarot and the Magus.

If you are looking for something dealing more directly with reading cards for other people, or giving various spreads you can use, I'm not really sure. You could start a new topic asking for recommendations if there isn't one already.

There are several books on Tarot in the CM library you can dowload for free and try out to see what you think.

Also you don't by any chance have the astrological correspondences for all of the cards do you including the minor ones....

I do, yes. When I have more time I'll post the simple method of working out the astrological associations of the cards... or maybe I'll post a table instead... whichever involves less work

Original post: spiritoflove

Hiya,

Are these books like the original ones that I would have to buy off amazon...I speak about Liber777 and Sephiroth...?

I think I need a library...lol...thank god I have enough rooms in my home for everything...'

The other tarot books...well I was coming from this angle...I knew this woman, in fact she looked like and was about the same age as MMe Blavatsky...the way she read cards blew me away she got names places events etc...but maybe this was more clairvoyance?

How did she do this with the cards...here's me someone who's deeply into all of this asking such a simple or maybe complicated question...but it is a question that is more trying to find further information different techniques rather than "how is it done" though that is the question...lol

Thanks

SpiritofLove

Original post: spiritoflove

Hiya,

How does the study of the numbers differe to numerology? Do you or others have links apart from the one that is given on Gematria?

CaraDoc, would say what you did with the mother and father number bringing child...would this work if I add my door numbers up...say what the energy of the house would bring in etc, what about the street name, and people's names would all of this reveal other things...'

I have studied Name Analysis different to Numerology and it is where each name adds up to a number then that gives personality, but then each single letter has a number and dependant upon the name one can be in any letter at various years...Derek, not my name would be in the letter D for the first four years of his life then the letter E...and each letter brings different events....how the person reacts to them events is determined by the whole name number....

What are your views on the above...also another thing or two, you can tell my mind goes way deep because I am now wondering why I put the number two there...lol....

They are what happens if certain numbers keep jumping out at you say in a synchronistic fashion would you read anything into them...plus I was on the bus yesterday and I thought we don't need tarot because the world around us gives us the symbols...looking at a person about to walk into a shop...they have a car on the left a phone box on the right, and say some other things like a poster advertising...plus other things....

Now if we looked at that like a snapshot related the overall scene to the tree of life and in a way the tarot say the car being the chariot, getting deeper symbolism by the colour of the car...and interpreted the way the car was facing to what sphere, and all the same with the other things in the surrounding environment would that give us an insight into that person our energies were focusing on....

Now a lot of people may think I have lost it...but seriously I am very level headed....what do you think on this...

Thanks

In Profound Peace & Light

Spirit of Love

Original post: Caradoc

[QUOTE=spiritoflove]Are these books like the original ones that I would have to buy off amazon...I speak about Liber777 and Sephiroth...?[/QUOTE]
I haven't downloaded 777 so I don't know if it's the same as the book. The version of Sepher Sephiroth I linked to actually has more entries than are included in Crowley's book but is pretty much the same otherwise.

(I just noticed you posted again while I was typing this... I'll read that first before I say anything else )

Original post: Caradoc

CaraDoc, would say what you did with the mother and father number bringing child...would this work if I add my door numbers up...say what the energy of the house would bring in etc, what about the street name, and people's names would all of this reveal other things...'

Well this is why I said it may or may not be valid depending on your view :lol:

Many people believe such things and will even choose a house based on its number, but for others this has no real relevance at all and you could find suitable correspondencies to say whatever you want them to. If you start looking for numbers you will find the same ones everywhere and can always draw significant connections. I think that fact makes me lean toward the idea that a numerical connection has meaning only if you think it does.

... and I thought we don't need tarot because the world around us gives us the symbols...looking at a person about to walk into a shop...they have a car on the left a phone box on the right

I quite agree. Again it comes back to the idea that something has meaning if we feel it strikes a particular chord with us and the only important factor in the equation is what that particular chord leads to. If I saw the same image it might not mean anything to me, but it could lead you to some profound understanding of the nature of the Universe... What matters is the "profound understanding" we reach, not how we get there. Whether we learn something through tarot or gematria or reading tea-leaves, the knowledge is what matters.

You could argue that neither tarot nor gematria mean anything in themselves, but function only as a focus to open the mind to greater levels of perception...

I'm rambling now and not speaking very clearly so I'll shut up and try again later :lol:

Original post: Caradoc

[QUOTE=spiritoflove]Also you don't by any chance have the astrological correspondences for all of the cards do you including the minor ones....[/QUOTE]This looks complicated but it really is very easy to work out when you know how

The suits are related to the elements thus:

Wands = FIRE
Cups = WATER
Swords = AIR
Disks = EARTH

The Zodiac signs are related to the elements too, thus:

FIRE = Aries (Cardinal sign), Leo (Fixed sign), Saggittarius (Mutable sign)
WATER = Cancer (Cardinal sign), Scorpio (Fixed sign), Pisces (Mutable sign)
AIR = Libra (Cardinal sign), Aquarius (Fixed sign), Gemini (Mutable sign)
EARTH = Capricorn (Cardinal sign), Taurus (Fixed sign), Virgo (Mutable sign)

The simple formula for the small cards is this:

The twos, threes and fours relate to the first, second and third decans of the Cardinal signs of their element, respectively. Example: 3 of Disks represents the second decan of Capricorn. (A decan is a period of ten days approx)

The fives, sixes and sevens relate to the first, second and third decans of the Fixed signs of their element, respectively. Example: 7 of Wands represents the third decan of Leo.

The eights, nines and tens relate to the first, second and third decans of the Mutable signs of their element, respectively. Example: 8 of Cups represents the first decan of Pisces.

In that way the cards can reveal approximate dates. The card for today (11th August) would be the 6 of Wands as today falls in the second decan of Leo (2-11 Aug.)

The planetary associations follow a simple(ish) formula too:

Assign one planet to each decan around the wheel of the year (starting at the first decan of Aries) in the following order:

Mars
Sol
Venus
Mercury
Luna
Saturn
Jupiter

And then repeat the pattern until you get to the final decan of the year, Mars

Do you have Microsoft Word? I could draw up the tables and mail them to you if I've not made it clear enough here. I would recommend drawing your own tables, if the information I gave is clear enough to do so, as it will stick in your mind better that way.

Original post: Caradoc

The Court Cards and the Zodiac

The court cards are assigned to the wheel of the year like this:

The Queen of Wands covers the third decan of Pisces and the first two decans of Aries.
The Prince of Disks covers the third decan of Aries and the first two decans of Taurus.
The Knight of Swords covers the third decan of Taurus and the first two decans of Gemini.
The Queen of Cups covers the third decan of Gemini and the first two decans of Cancer.
The Prince of Wands covers the third decan of Cancer and the first two decans of Leo.
The Knight of Disks covers the third decan of Leo and the first two decans of Virgo.
The Queen of Swords covers the third decan of Virgo and the first two decans of Libra.
The Prince of Cups covers the third decan of Libra and the first two decans of Scorpio.
The Knight of Wands covers the third decan of Scorpio and the first two decans of Sagittarius.
The Queen of Disks covers the third decan of Sagittarius and the first two decans of Capricorn.
The Prince of Swords covers the third decan of Capricorn and the first two decans of Aquarius.
The Knight of Cups covers the third decan of Aquarius and the first two decans of Aries.

And the cycle is complete. You should clearly see the repeated patterns if you read the card names upwards - Prince, Queen, Knight - Wands, Cups, Swords, Disks

Now the Court cards are assigned to the wheel of the wheel of the year you should be able to see which cards they rule. For example: the Queen of Swords covers the third decan of Virgo and the first two decans of Libra. The small cards which fall in those decans are 10 of Disks, 2 of Swords, 3 of Swords - so the Queen of Swords is said to rule those cards.

The Princesses are assigned to quadrants of the earth and heavens:

Princess of Disks rules Aries, Taurus and Gemini, and all the cards which fall under those signs.
Princess of Wands rules Cancer, Leo and Virgo, and all the cards which fall under those signs.
Princess of Cups rules Libra, Scorpio and Sagittarius, and all the cards which fall under those signs.
Princess of Swords rules Capricorn, Aquarius and Pisces, and all the cards which fall under those signs.