OccultForum.org

Original post: nerdysnob

Greetings everyone,

I am a novice at AP, having become lucid in my dreams for about 5 to 8 times. The 1st guide to AP that I spent a lot of time on was written by Don DeGracias, who makes no distinction between a lucid dream and AP. My preferred method for AP is getting up early in the morning, go the bathroom, then go back to sleep. My cue for knowing that I am in the dream world is the very unique feeling of leaving my body. Usually my "spirit" falls off my body vertically in the bottom direction, but this morning it left my body horizontally through my feet.

When I move my arm in the Astral Plane, I can really feel it moving, and sometimes a strong feeling can also be felt in my brain at the same time. I can sometimes strongly feel my fingers as well. I also have felt the sensation of flying. I have not met the Dweller on the Threshold that DeGracias was talking about. 1 time I was in a snowy area, sun was bright, and I was slowly going through the wall of a stone house, I felt that the dweller might be behind that wall, so I instead flew upwards. Gray clouds started covering the sun, the wind blew on me, my body started spinning, then I woke up.

The more I read Don DeGracias's work (which I have lost due to a computer crash, but I know it could be found again in eMule), the more discouraged I became. In the early text files, DeGracias firmly believed that when you dream, you really are in the Astral Plane. However, in the later files, which seemed to be written when Don was taking classes at University, he became less and less convinced by the occult explanation, and chose to believe the scientific explanation of Stephen LaBerge, a professor at Berkeley and boss of lucidity.com

LaBerge's research made him come to the conclusion that you never really leave your body during an AP/lucid dream, everything goes on in your mind.

I wish to ask for other members to share their AP experiences with me. Is anyone:

-Sure of having reached the Physical Plane when APing
-Has anyone met a friend in the Astral Plane, and after both wake up both recall the extraplanar meeting?
-Has anyone had a serious conversation in the Astral Plane, have you learned something that you didn't know beforehand?

Once, I was in a very yellowish-white bright room, a man was lying ill on the floor. I asked him to give me the definition of a word that I did not know. He said "asshole".

What I desire is proof that this is not solely going on in my mind. I find that AP requires less discipline to perform than other occult disciplines. So if it is really real, I will focus solely on it instead of trying to learn a new skill.
Thanks for any info.

Original post: Isabel

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/097427559X/qid=1095958800/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/102-9109422-5144935?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

This should help you.
The techniques that I have learned from the said literature/school are very useful.
Also, yes, I have had Astral experiences where both myself and a friend were conscious in the astral and had several experiences together. We wrote down our experiences in the morning, compared notes, and realized that we did share the same experience. The experiences in the astral plane depend upon perception. There is objective, conscious perception and subjective un/subconscious perception. The difference in psychological dynamic between these two are deep yet very subtle, especially in the beginning.
The astral plane is an objective dimension, every occultist (who practices and is not just an intellectual) knows this through direct experience. It is HOD on the Kabbalistic Tree of Life.
Anyway, check out the above book and let us know what you think.

Original post: doh

I'm also moving this to the Astral forum here. You'll probably get some answers there. It may be a "beginning" question for you, but usually astral traveling is not something that every "just starts out on".

Original post: nerdysnob

Isabel: That book certainly seems interesting. I will try to order it next Monday. However, as I live in Canada (estimated 3-6 weeks shipping time, maybe more if there are customs delays), it might take some time before I can comment on it

posted by doh
usually astral traveling is not something that every "just starts out on".

I have also practiced Telekinesis, maybe 2-3 times using the techniques explained at psipog.net and I practiced remote viewing once. It seems to me that both of those skills require much more time and effort to achieve some results.

Because I've been daydreaming for years, it's hard for me to clear my mind completely and then focus solely on 1 thing, a skill that is essential to learn tk. And TK requires one to have a good amount of sleep before practice, which I don't always get.

On the other hand, there is a method to achieve AP in which a person has to sleep for 5-6 hours, awaken, then sleep once more. Because of my unhealthy sleeping habits, I already meet that prerequisite without needing to make any effort.

This morning, I didn't try to have a lucid dream, but I realized I was in one because of the "spirit leaving body" feeling. That was my 1st one in months. So AP is my 1st occult experience mainly because of my background and personality.

Anyway, thanks for moving my post to a more appropriate section. When I saw that beginner forum I kinda got lazy and posted there without looking for a better place Won't happen again.

Original post: Mmothra

Check out Astral Dynamics by Robert Bruce; it is quite comprehensive and you can visit his website at www.astralpulse.com. You should be able to find the book on www.half.com for less than $10.00 US.

Original post: Mmothra

Isabel wrote:http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/097427559X/qid=1095958800/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/102-9109422-5144935?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

This should help you.
The techniques that I have learned from the said literature/school are very useful.
Also, yes, I have had Astral experiences where both myself and a friend were conscious in the astral and had several experiences together. We wrote down our experiences in the morning, compared notes, and realized that we did share the same experience. The experiences in the astral plane depend upon perception. There is objective, conscious perception and subjective un/subconscious perception. The difference in psychological dynamic between these two are deep yet very subtle, especially in the beginning.
The astral plane is an objective dimension, every occultist (who practices and is not just an intellectual) knows this through direct experience. It is HOD on the Kabbalistic Tree of Life.
Anyway, check out the above book and let us know what you think.

Yeah, right.

This is an excerpt from the book Isabel recommends and pretty well sums up what a nutjob this guy is:

http://www.gnosis-usa.com/Courses/dream04a.html

[size=-1]We hear, for instance, that many ignoramuses state that Tchaikovsky, Leonardo Da Vinci and Nero, Emperor of Rome, were homosexuals.[/size]
[size=-1]Yes, we heard many of them saying that all the great men of the past were homosexuals. Why are they asseverating this nonsense? They cannot understand that the brain of the homosexual is filled with the Poisoninoskirian Vibrations. These are emanations or energies resulting from the mixture of the sexual semen with human excrement. This produces a horrible energy that rises to the brain, thereby rotting it completely. Those vibrations belong completely and irrevocably to those realms which share that vibratory level: the abyss, hell, the realm of denegeration and lust and all manner of animal behavior. A person who fills themselves whith those vibrations (through lustufl activity, thought, and word) lowers themselves psychologicall and spiritually into those worlds. Their brain reflects that. A brain thus degenerated cannot develop the necessary spiritual senses in order to bring superior messages (like music and wisdom) from the heavenly places or higher Sephiroth. They simply cannot receive those vibrations, nor can they comprehend them. That is why those degenerated individuals love degenerated music, literature, images, and ways of behaving. [/size]

[size=-1]The great men of the past were great Masters; they never had those types of manias or degeneration, they were men and women who had a very pure, very clean psyche. In order to bring high vibratory knowledge to earth, one must be able to vibrate in affinity with that knowledge. However, it so happens that many such men and women, working on the Path to the Self-realization of the Being, also had to face their own karma, their own egos, so many faced accusations, public ridicule, gossip, etc. Some were accused of homosexuality because of karma, or because their own true love, due to karmic reasons, was incarnated in a body of the same sex, so they could not be married, and instead they had to face that pain. Many were simply defamed by their enemies, and now we only remember them as their enemies want them remembered.[/size]

[size=-1]Now people are repeating that nonsense and believing lies. We are polluting our subconsciousness with lies. It is necessary to clean our subconsciousness of all the garbage we have, especially the type of knowledge we are receiving. [/size]

Original post: Serpentiferous

Actually, I do believe that most of our AP experiences happen in the brain. My belief is that the universe exists both within and without, as well as all the life forms that inhabit our universe. However, you can break away and actually travel on the physical plane outside yourself!

The only witness I have that this can happen are my parents. When I was a kid they watched me climb out of my body and walk through a locked door, then return to bed. At the time, I didn't know that I didn't have my body with me and was so dazed that I didn't think there was anything unusual about walking through a closed door.

The only way I can describe how to tell whether your within your mind or on the physical plane is the level of clarity. When your on the physical plane you don't notice anything different from how you would normally manuver your body and your senses are completely in tact... you just feel a bit drunk. For me this only happens when I get up at night for a drink of water and realize that the glass is too heavy to lift, or I can't turn the switch on my lamp all the way. If I ever get good at doing this type of projecting, intentionally, I do plan to video tape it. lol

I've been able to contact others while astral projecting, but in those cases I believe that it was through the internal universe.

-Serpenti

Original post: nerdysnob

Mmothra: thanks for recommending Astral Dynamics. I have enough cash for 2 books, although those high shipping fees kinda bug me Canada isn't that far from the US...

About that homosexual bashing, my motto is live and let live.

However, as long as his book can improve my AP experience, I'm interested. I will just pay more attention to other areas of the book. The reviews given at amazon.com are very positive.

Didn't Charles Darwin consider African people to be inferior? Although he was wrong on that matter, his bird research was a great contribution to science.

posted by Serpentiferous
When your on the physical plane you don't notice anything different from how you would normally manuver your body and your senses are completely in tact... you just feel a bit drunk.

I have never been drunk But being so used to the physical plane I shouldn't have too much trouble realizing where I would be.

Your exploits certainly reinforce my faith in AP.

Does this mean that when you project in the physical plane, you are usually invisible, except for the time that your parents saw you? So you cannot fly or move quickly while projecting in the physical plane right?

I wonder if the video camera can even pick up the presence of an APing person.

Original post: Serpentiferous

Does this mean that when you project in the physical plane, you are usually invisible, except for the time that your parents saw you? So you cannot fly or move quickly while projecting in the physical plane right?

I wonder if the video camera can even pick up the presence of an APing person.

From what I understand, it's like viewing a ghost. Sometimes they're visible and sometimes they're not. I've been leaving various objects out on my desk to manipulate (just to see if they can be moved), but the last few times I was OB I was too distracted to try it out. If I succeed I'll post the results.

Original post: Lucid

[QUOTE=nerdysnob] I find that AP requires less discipline to perform than other occult disciplines. So if it is really real, I will focus solely on it instead of trying to learn a new skill.
Thanks for any info.[/QUOTE]

Try as I might, I've never been able to AP by using relaxation and mind clearing techniques. It always happens to me when I'm asleep. I'll open my eyes sometime during the night, and immediately get thrown into the standing position. It happens so often anymore that I have to do reality tests every time I wake up. The only problem is that I rarely get more than a few feet from my body before I wake up for real, or slip into a dream.
Anyway, if you're looking for a good book on OBE, check out http://www.robertpeterson.org/obebook.html . It's a good read, and it's free. There's also a PDF version in the CM Library.
For lucid dreaming, "The Lucid Dreamer: A Waking Guide for the Traveller Between Worlds" by Malcom Godwin, is a great book.

Original post: nerdysnob

Thanks for the book suggestions. I already have some on my to-buy list, so I might check out Malcom Godwin's book later. I'm browsing the Robert Peterson book right now, chapter 20: "Fantasy Trap" specifically. "Flight School" seems like an interesting chapter too

It seems that you AP into the physical plane, I have never achieved that. I think I might have APed from a relaxation technique once, but I'm not sure if I really fell asleep during my relaxation and then APed or if I APed directly from the relaxing.

Original post: Ceriel Nosforit

[QUOTE=Mmothra]Check out Astral Dynamics by Robert Bruce; it is quite comprehensive and you can visit his website at www.astralpulse.com. You should be able to find the book on www.half.com for less than $10.00 US.[/QUOTE]

For what it's worth, I own this book and have found it very helpful. If I try to find something about the book to complain about I come up with mostly trivialities. Maybe that he has so much experience in the field that he's stopped saying "maybe" and started saying "is".

On the Astralpulse site there are several texts worth reading in the Downloads-section. You might want to check them out first before butting your money on the line.

Original post: Lucid

[QUOTE=nerdysnob]It seems that you AP into the physical plane, I have never achieved that. I think I might have APed from a relaxation technique once, but I'm not sure if I really fell asleep during my relaxation and then APed or if I APed directly from the relaxing.[/QUOTE]

I'm actually not sure. The last time I was actually able to get out of the house, I found myself floating through a purple sky with my house following close behind, and nothing else in sight.