OccultForum.org

Original post: Venefica

Are there any here that practice Spiritual BDSM? I have found myself very interested in this topic. Using BDSM as a Spiritual paths. There are many ways to do it off course. And I do not know what direction would be right for me, but it is an interesting topic.

The path I have looked at most is one where the submissive serves the Gods or God through service to his or her Master that also serve the Gods. So that you get a Spiritual pecking order so to speak.

But I am not sure how much of this is accepted to speak about on this forum. I have made a quikie forum for discussing this topic and also BDSM magick though. You can find it here: http://spiritualbdsm.forumdes.com/index ... 415c9e3625

Original post: Centrix

Are you speaking of a sexual meaning also? I would be interested in knowing how this benefits you in your perspective.

Original post: Jenfucius

Isnt there a book that deals with the subject?

Original post: Cyrix_777

This Book might be of Interest:

Kink Magic: Sex Magic Beyond Vanilla explores the realm of sex magic from the kinkier side. Authors Taylor Ellwood and Lupa take the intense altered states of consciousness inherent in BDSM and other fetish play and use them to create practical and metamorphic techniques. Detailed explanation of theory gives a solid foundation, while personal stories of their own spiritual adventures illustrate the effectiveness of kink magic. This book presents techniques for everything from casting sigils, to confronting--and banishing--your inner demons, to taking your sexy roleplay and turning it into powerful invocation rituals. Rather than dogmatically elaborating on the "right" way to do it, Taylor and Lupa give you ideas to apply to your own kink and magical practices, regardless of your sexual orientation or relationship status. Whether you're top or bottom, dominant or submissive, or even the most flexible switch, you'll find plenty here to take your practice deeper and farther than ever before.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... /clavicula

Original post: Jenfucius

Thanks Cyrix_777

Another book to add to my library.

Original post: AstralMagickCraft

The path I have looked at most is one where the submissive serves the Gods or God through service to his or her Master that also serve the Gods. So that you get a Spiritual pecking order so to speak.

Vatican baby!

Pecking orders like you wouldn't believe, this cult WORSHIPS death in all forms, martyrdom being the most prominant, and did I mention the self flaggelation of some members of our order? oh, and as for a spritual pecking order, we will have you ON YOUR KNEES. begging for forgiveness, and did I mention you will be stripped of your inherant divinity?

Original post: The_Spirit_of_Truth

Spiritual BDSM is a very interesting subject. Because it is connected with sadomasochism a little, it reminds me one wisdom taken from "The Secret of Love":

"Sadomasochistic leanings show a special state of soul, a strange personality disharmony of such a person and his or her changeable and inconsistent inner attitudes towards good and evil. In some cases can such peculiar attitudes towards good and evil cause a development of a special sense for understanding of contradictions - it is known, that some holy men have had various sadomasochistic leanings.
During sadomasochistic practices it is possible to connect and experience contradictory energies and attain the neutral and in some sense all-embracive feeling between them.
Our whole life is based on joy and disappointment, luck and bad luck, pleasure and pain. Sadomasochism connect in itself pain and pleasure, that is both of these contradictions at the same time into intensive transformation of love energy, but equally also the energy of suffering. Sadomasochist is at the same time happy and unhappy, he experiences pleasure and pain. And this is a valuable transformation of love energy, or - as the case may be - of love and no-love simultaneously."

I personally believe that female spanking can evoke in women deeper feelings and sometimes it can even raise their spiritual level. Here is one proverb:

"Every nice woman needs spanking to stimulate erogenous zones of her bottom, to awake her deeper emotions, to improve her fertility, to make her cease to be cold, to feel deeper, to love more..."

The alternating of spanking with spiritual meditations can develope some persons even also spiritually.

Original post: Always Lost

Uhhh I wouldnt try to spank every women your with. Women are individuals too. Plus choking works alot better for the abusey type.
A light spank (more sound than sensation) works for most but I would only go hard and make it a feature unless she had some childhood issues with it.

Original post: Kath_

I think that many different facets in spirituality could be applied to bdsm (and vice versa).

Many religions teach a sort of masochism IMO, as well as, at times, domination. and of course 'discipline'. Islamo-judeo-christian theology is especially bdsm oriented IMO.

Psychic vampirism can fit into a bdsm setting quite well.

Erezbet B. had some pretty wild ideas about spirituality and bdsm (snuff specifically). But outside of breaking into sealed document records in Hungary, its hard to find any detailed info.

I'm wondering now, about tantra & bdsm, and how that might interplay. hmm.
__

"female spanking"?
God, chauvanism is way waaay too common in bdsm circles. If I had a nickel for ever Dom I've talked to who didn't understand that 'female' does not equal 'submissive'... I'd have a f*ck of a lot of nickels.

Kath

Original post: Sapiens Vir

[QUOTE=Kath_;343091]

Erezbet B. had some pretty wild ideas about spirituality and bdsm (snuff specifically). But outside of breaking into sealed document records in Hungary, its hard to find any detailed info.

I'm wondering now, about tantra & bdsm, and how that might interplay. hmm.
__

"female spanking"?
God, chauvanism is way waaay too common in bdsm circles. If I had a nickel for ever Dom I've talked to who didn't understand that 'female' does not equal 'submissive'... I'd have a f*ck of a lot of nickels.

Kath[/QUOTE]

As a Dom familiar with tantra I have to say it works quite well, especially if you tend to be the impatient type like myself. As for Countess Bathory there is a really good book called ,The Bloody Countess I forget who wrote it but it is part biography part analysis and comparison of Countess Bathory to Gilles de Rais who once confessed to wanting to murder and eat the dauphin. Excellent read.

And no female does not = submissive. Dom and sub are factors of personality. You either are an Alpha or you're a beta. Those traits apply both male and female. Lots of male subs, I just prefer the idea of my subs being odelisques and well most male subs tend to be the sniveling sort who failed a lot at life and therefore lack the talent necessary to be an odelisque.

Original post: Kath_

I've done a pretty thorough study of Erzebet as I was trying to pry into her magic paradigm recently. And I was preparing to try to evoke her as well, if she's still intact and/or discarnate. Obviously not to use her methods, but just to gain insight into a system which is very much off the beaten paths. I target the non-mainstream in order to achieve the largest possible benefit from paradigm shift and diverse input. The more removed from the common a paradigm is, in terms of place, time, and/or concept, the more I an interested.

hehe, and so true, about the 'odelisque'.

Original post: Sapiens Vir

[QUOTE=Kath_;343993]I've done a pretty thorough study of Erzebet as I was trying to pry into her magic paradigm recently. And I was preparing to try to evoke her as well, if she's still intact and/or discarnate. Obviously not to use her methods, but just to gain insight into a system which is very much off the beaten paths. I target the non-mainstream in order to achieve the largest possible benefit from paradigm shift and diverse input. The more removed from the common a paradigm is, in terms of place, time, and/or concept, the more I an interested.

hehe, and so true, about the 'odelisque'.[/QUOTE]

That book I mentioned actually delves into some of her occult beliefs and the influences on them. Sometimes it does so in a very general and broad way but it makes it clear that her life was saturated in hedge magick and the traditional magical beliefs of Romania and Wallachia. I believe though that it was actually one of her crones, Dorco I believe?, that got her started with the blood bathing ritual and by all accounts it did have some effect. She was purported to have remained remarkably youthful and beautiful long after she should have begun to wither and fade.

Original post: Kath_

Actually a lot of the popular 'information' is folk tale based. She never claimed to, nor was ever accused by anyone, of bathing in blood, and the blood=youth thing actually comes from local folktales as well. Also she got into the idea of killing as a child watching a public execution. Her and her husband were both sadists, and had tortured servant girls together, but her husband was much more a 'lightweight'. Dorko was one of a number of accomplices she actively enlisted. And of the 650+ murders, less than 50 of them were 'illegal' (such was the legal structuring in that day for a hungarian noble torturing peasant girls).

Surprisingly she was one of the best educated people in hungary at the time, being trilingually literate. She loved the sciences, especially astronomy, and corresponded via mail with numerous scientists of the period. And supposedly, she was a good mother (go figure)

She clearly mingled occult practices with her torturing, but nothing strictly ritualized as she seemed to favor creativity in it. Blood was not a critical element at all, some victims were frozen to death for example. She was a very sick puppy. However, I would be curious to see how her occult practices influenced her murderous practices, and vice versa. Whatever the answer to that, I'm sure it wouldn't be anything occulticly 'run of the mill'.

Anyway, her memoirs, including occult material, and her journal of murder, are sealed documents in Hungary. It seems that 400 years of Hungarian government have all agreed that it is 'inappropriate reading material'. At any rate, the paper is falling apart.

In a way she could be kinda the poster child for this thread's title. Though only in a very extreme, amoral, and illegal sense.

Kath

Original post: Sapiens Vir

Hmm I had always read that the blood baths were fact, although not necessarily the literal pool full of blood but were sometimes given over to simple showers from numerous cuts on a hanging victim. Her education is not at all suprising to me though considering how closely involved she was with the Hapsburgs.

She was also a terribly dutiful wife even though her husband was often away at war. I think the book I read was written by a contemporary or near contemporary French historian which may be why it talks about the blood baths as factual information. Interestingly enough though he also makes mention of her lists and records she used to keep of her victims. She was meticulous about it and even noted some characteristics, next to one girl's name she had written" she was small." So perhaps he was able to review some of her papers and writings before they were sealed away like she was.

Original post: Kath_

Well the only reference to her 'bathing in blood' was from trial confessions by her accomplices who said that sometimes during a particularly fierce beating session, she would become so covered in blood that she would take a recess to change her clothes. And that at times the carpet of her bedchamber would become soggy with blood. That's really the extent of it. The 'blood bathing' and 'blood = youth' stuff (and also the idea that she was 'corrupted' by a witch) is popular hungarian folklore.

The 'she was small' bit, and some other short excerpts of her writing, are from transcripts of the trials of her and her accomplices I believe (which are more publicly known). And um... after studying her quite a bit, I feel fairly confident in saying that "she was small" probably doesn't refer to the victim's height.

There was a very psycho-sexual tone to her killing. All of the victims were young females. All of the accomplices were older females. And Erzabet, though married, was bisexual (and rather fond of her gay aunt I might add). The killings were all 'highly' sadistic, and usually the victims were nude. But unlike most serial killers, she lacked a ritualized routine.

There were a lot of folk tales built around her. Everything from vampire stories, to the popular story of her being the victim of extreme vanity, to just general fear inducing tales of the local pagans, fear of the upper class, the amorality of those who believe science instead of god, etc. All of it a sort of "...and the moral of the story is..." styled stuff. Some of it much more widely known and believed than any of the facts of her case.

She may be the most prolific serial killer ever. And she kinda makes the marquis de sade seem like a sunday school teacher. Unusual for a woman, on both counts.

anyways
Kath

Original post: Sapiens Vir

Another reason I suspect the book to be written by a near contemporary historian is that it makes a big deal of her astrological chart but continues in a very scholarly and formal tone. Contemporary biographers find no significance in the astrological charts of their subjects but at the time it wasn't uncommon to include such information.

Original post: Darkwater

I am big on sex magick,just get no satisfaction or power from delivering or receiving pain.

On reading this thread I remembered was a *game* we used to *play*,extreme violence having featured heavily in my upbringing as well as that of my entire oversoul without exception.

This is something I would tend to avoid unless neccessary try to discourage my sons from,to an extent.

Anyway,me & two of my mates tied one of us to a chair & we would take turns to *interrogate* him,if you cried or blabbed you were disqualified & you had to last 10 minutes or something.

It was different but good fun,until the best fighter was tied firmly into the chair & gagged.He was also the toughest.

Me & another guy knocked the utter fuck out of him,we would remove the gag for the *secret* & he would tell us to fuck off so we really leathered him until his eyes finally began watering involuntarily near the end of his 10 minutes.

I knew throughout what I was doing was*bad* or wrong lolz,it just hit home when it came to untying him.

We kept him in the chair for ages which made him madder,until he *promised* to accept it was only a game & there were no bad feelings.The game was his idea anyway & he encouraged us to be as brutal as we could.

We finally untied one wee corner,one of his hands & he grabbed us,so we leathered him again & ran out of the house.

Unfortunately my wee buddy had to return eventually for he shared a room with the psycho,his big brother.

The younger brother never smoked,drunk to excess,was very sporty & healthy,had a fitness related job........then was diagnosed with cancer before he hit 40.

I was an emotional plank of wood for so long stuff like that keeps surfacing.

Anyway,since that day I have never tied anyone up or tortured them,nor been tied up.

Although I would happily do it to anyone hurting my close family or a close family member of any of my buddies,as they would do for me.Obvously we have places lined up to undertake such an act,places to dispose of any evidence & some experience.

Helps me sleep really soundly at night.

Does this count,or does it have to be sexual?

Original post: LadyoftheLight

are you looking for the bondage/dominance aspect or the hurt/be hurt aspect?

s&m is a slightly different twist in the lifestyle, neither the sadist or masochist have to be a dom or sub and none of it has to be sexual.

spiritually, i think it'd be easier being the masochist, simply for the fact that the "high" of the pain allows the mind to slip more easily into an altered state of sensation, sadism in the capacity of not seriously harming a person requires to much concentration, expertise and focus to really allow for a detachment from the physical, you have to be in tune with the person your, enlightening particularly being able to read their pain, recognizing safe words and being constantly aware of their tolerance.

the slave/master relationship as some one pointed out is very much like an organized religion where the followers go to a priest to receive their blessings from a god, however in the realm of bdsm it usually suggests a level of connection between two people that one is absolutely passive and the other maintains absolute control, sort of like a cult mentality if it was taken to a spiritual relationship.

it's easy to be a slave, just believe everything a person tells you is required to worship a god, give all your energy to them when they need it and never doubt they have your best interests at heart. Being the dom is harder in my opinion, you have to keep constant control or risk topping from the bottom.

this is from a sub rather than a slave, it all depends on what level of submitting you will do for a person, i like the option of saying no if a person isn't strong enough to master me, but finding people to hurt me, when i need it...isn't such a problem, if i'm willing to trust anyone enough to do anything they want to me.

that's where you have to be careful, once you're bound, your at the binders mercy.

there's some amazing minds, advice and insight here...if your serious about a bdsm lifestyle, on any level.

http://www.bondage.com/bdn/splash.aspx

Original post: Sapiens Vir

[QUOTE=LadyoftheLight;344634]
spiritually, i think it'd be easier being the masochist, simply for the fact that the "high" of the pain allows the mind to slip more easily into an altered state of sensation, sadism in the capacity of not seriously harming a person requires to much concentration, expertise and focus to really allow for a detachment from the physical, you have to be in tune with the person your, enlightening particularly being able to read their pain, recognizing safe words and being constantly aware of their tolerance.
[/QUOTE]


Actually you would be suprised how easy it is to be lifted away in the heat of the moment and still be aware, if you do it often enough and have the right training it's not hard to notice the signs of impending collapse. Though the problem arises that too often you don't have the opportunity to practice it enough. Everyone is different but everyone reacts to pain the same way, whether they like it or not there is only so much the body can take and those signs are pretty obvious. Pupil dialation, heavy breathing, shakey joints, muscle spasms and eventually loss of conciousness. If you draw blood blood flow can be an indicator. Wounds in the extremeties will stop bleeding as much just before someone goes into shock. It's hard to explain. It's like I'm observing my actions from outside myself and can turn away from them at any time I choose and yet I am aware of every blow from inside myself.

Original post: LadyoftheLight

[QUOTE=Sapiens Vir;344744]Actually you would be suprised how easy it is to be lifted away in the heat of the moment and still be aware, if you do it often enough and have the right training it's not hard to notice the signs of impending collapse. Though the problem arises that too often you don't have the opportunity to practice it enough. Everyone is different but everyone reacts to pain the same way, whether they like it or not there is only so much the body can take and those signs are pretty obvious. Pupil dialation, heavy breathing, shakey joints, muscle spasms and eventually loss of conciousness. If you draw blood blood flow can be an indicator. Wounds in the extremeties will stop bleeding as much just before someone goes into shock. It's hard to explain. It's like I'm observing my actions from outside myself and can turn away from them at any time I choose and yet I am aware of every blow from inside myself.[/QUOTE]

that's why i'm the sub.

i get too caught up in the moment to be aware of such details, i doubt i'd be able to know if i was in trouble, much less some one else. I've had psychics tell me i need to spend more time in my body on this world, how do you think i am when i'm intentionally shifting out on a pain high?

the endorphins are nice though.