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I followed every bit of advice in communicating with Goetics efficiently but I can't seem to achieve anything with them or even contact them.

Some praise Goetics but some shun them. Have you ever achieved real success with them? How?

Arckangel wrote:Some praise Goetics but some shun them. Have you ever achieved real success with them? How?

The evocation attempt I made once was successful. Whether I got the results I wanted was questionable, but the Goetic heard me, all right.

That experience caused me to consider, that maybe summoning demons really isn't the most intelligent idea that human beings have ever had. Angel work is still something I consider fine, but it will probably be a very long time before I decide to try my luck on the Goetic roulette wheel again.

There's also a Hindu proverb which, where the Goetia are concerned, is worthy of meditation. It states that Man becomes what he worships. If you spend the bulk of your time associating with demons, guess what that means?

Working with demons has nothing at all in common with worshipping demons. So the proverb doesnt really apply.

Now that you mention it though, Arckangel, there is something there. I have a very high success rate in my magical workings, generally speaking, but when it comes to the beings listed in the Goetia, my performance hasnt been nearly so shiny. And before someone suggests it, no it has nothing to do with the fact that they are demons, i am perfectly well attuned to working with demons and workings with OTHER demons are consistent with my general success rate. It has been suggested before that for the Goetia operations to work one needs to follow the instructions to the letter, personally i have not done this, i take magic very personally and tend to personalise everything i do, so in my case this might have been the case. I do not think it was though because i personalise everything else, including enochian(which is supposedly even more rigid and dangerous, even though it's really the opposite, a beautiful system really) and it works perfectly. Also i have found in magic practice in general that the ceremonial demands in most grimoires are entirely of a dogmatic nature and serve no real purpose whatsoever, except maybe in cases of some weak mages, to convince the mind that this is all real, to help the suspension of disbelief.

So to get to the point, i myself am wondering what is going on with them. Does anyone else have any ideas or experiences with them? Maybe we can make some sort of discovery here.

Arckangel wrote:I followed every bit of advice in communicating with Goetics efficiently but I can't seem to achieve anything with them or even contact them.

Some praise Goetics but some shun them. Have you ever achieved real success with them? How?

First of all, evocation is a high art. Its not that you just follow everything and than the evocation will be a succes immediately. It simply doesnt work like that. All magic takes years to master and evocation is no exception. So you made a evocation and nothing happened. Or did it? What probably happened is that the evocation was a succes but you didn't see, feel or heard it. It's obvious that your astral senses are not developed enough yet. Usually in most cases the first sign of succes is that you feel a presence of something. A invisible presence.

Let me give you a example. I have years of experience with evocation. When I first started nothing happened(at least what I thought back then), the next time nothing happended either and the third time….nothing. I wondered what I did wrong. I felt a little bit dissapointed. I thought about to ask this the next time I talked to a more experienced magician(s)the next week I would meet them. An hour or so I went to bed. I fell asleep and about 15 minutes later I woke up. I heard a loud, dark and harsch voice echoing in my whole mind calling my name, three times. I was excited and I knew it was the demon. I tried to communicate but nothing more happened that night. But that was enough to know I was on the right way.

There are other techniques to perform evocation than the Goetica method. Now I'm not dissing it. It has it's advantages. It has been used for centuries and it does work. And another advantage is that it takes time to perfom it. The more time and effort you put in, the more energy you build up. And energy is what all magic is about. You dont have to believe everything(or nothing)in the Goetica techniques of evocation. But you have to believe in it when you perfom it. Yes things can be substituted or taken away. But you have to know what and how to do it. If not, stick to the strict Goetica method till you know how. Or some other that work. I have another background and dont use circles if I do a evocation. A very stripped down version. But the more stripped down, the more it will demand of the magician. But yes I have done the Goetica way too.

But before doing a evocation, start with meditations and meditate over the spirits symbol for at least 15 minutes up to 30 a couple times each week during a month(And after that month perform your evocation). Mantra the name too. This will create a link to the demon, spirit or whatever you want to evoke. The spirit might appear in a dream the same night or some over night. Eventually it will. You have probably allready figured out by now that you can use the symbol to make the spirit to appear in a dream too. And the answer to that is of course yes. If the spirit appear in a dream, take that as a bonus and not something to strive for yet. This is not the time for that now. Once you have more experience with evocation in the waking state you can proceed with evocations in the sleep. The advantage with evocations during dreams are of course the same as every else magic done in dreams. You dont have a waking conciousness that try to disturb and interfere. But the dissadvantage is that you dont have that safety to stop everything immediately if something goes wrong or get too powerfull that you can’t handle(yet) because you are not grounded as in the physical world. This does not apply to all magic but techniques that open up very strong forces, no matter if they are inner or outer forces, should be learned in the physical waking state first.

Try different techniques too to evoke together with Goetica(or some other). Use a mirror, crystal ball, shadows, candles, pools, lakes etc. Sexmagic is a powerfull technique but leave that until you get enough skilled. Try until you find the right technique(s) for you.

Oh and another thing. Forget those occult writers that try to tell the reader that evocation is simple, safe and and allmost a Saturday night party thing. And they usually also let you know if you do exactly as they tell you to do you are bound to succeed and when you dont you wonder what you did wrong. This is also true too with all those silly follow-my instructionbooks about astral projection. Do extactly this and follow my three month course and you will have a waking consious astral travel. If not, you did something wrong. Yeah right

I think that one should not expect a new magickal discipline one start working on to work right away. Give it some time. I think that far to often I see posts on forums of the type, I tried to do X and I did not get results, why? That is like saying well I bought a oil painting kit but I can not recreate the Mona Lisa on the first try, why? Because you need practice. Have a little patience, for some a discipline works right away, but for others it might take years of hard work to get results. There is no standard for how long it will take. However if something do not immediately work, read more about it, see if there is something you are doing wrong, and then keep at it until you succeed at it.