Found this little video on youtube and wanted to see what real Wiccans thought of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcDlUA_i ... ideo_title
Wiccan vs Wiccan
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OccultNoob
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Nahemah
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Re: Wiccan vs Wiccan
That was excellent.
I 'm not Wiccan,lol,but I do know a lot about 'Bicca,the craft of the snarky',as played out all across Neopagan forums for the last few years.
This is when Solitary/Eclclectic Wiccans post about thei beliefs.It is usually followed by derogatory retaliation from a Coven Wiccan,or Initiatory Wiccan,as they are also known.
This eventually leads to a full on flame war,with everybody taking sides and much dramallama ensues.Remedy is usually a swift drop of the banhammer and several flounces from hurt parties on both sides.
Things quiet down for a bit,then the cycle begins again,next time a Solitary pops up with a post in similar vein.
Initiatiory Wicca is different from Ecletic,but it's a complex thing to define,with all the insistance of oathbound secrecy on the Initiatory side against the Solitary side,with Practiioners who'd come from an Initiatory background.Those who shared some 'core' orthpraxies with others who were uninitiated in a Coven sense,thus lending weight to the argument of Eclectic Wicca beind close enough to the practices of Initiatory Wicca to stil be defined as 'Wicca'. With both sides so polarised against the other,it's one that seems set to run on a while longer.
The fluffy stuff is in a class of it's own,but it also stirs up so much argment and strife and it links in with the rise of Eclectic Wicca,in the eyes of many Initiatories.They blame the Eclectics,perhaps a little unjustly for all the rubbish online.
It could be argued that releasing the Oathbound material would sort that problem out.The definitive original doctrine of Wicca,impossible to argue against.Don't see that hapening any time soon,though.
I 'm not Wiccan,lol,but I do know a lot about 'Bicca,the craft of the snarky',as played out all across Neopagan forums for the last few years.
This is when Solitary/Eclclectic Wiccans post about thei beliefs.It is usually followed by derogatory retaliation from a Coven Wiccan,or Initiatory Wiccan,as they are also known.
This eventually leads to a full on flame war,with everybody taking sides and much dramallama ensues.Remedy is usually a swift drop of the banhammer and several flounces from hurt parties on both sides.
Things quiet down for a bit,then the cycle begins again,next time a Solitary pops up with a post in similar vein.
Initiatiory Wicca is different from Ecletic,but it's a complex thing to define,with all the insistance of oathbound secrecy on the Initiatory side against the Solitary side,with Practiioners who'd come from an Initiatory background.Those who shared some 'core' orthpraxies with others who were uninitiated in a Coven sense,thus lending weight to the argument of Eclectic Wicca beind close enough to the practices of Initiatory Wicca to stil be defined as 'Wicca'. With both sides so polarised against the other,it's one that seems set to run on a while longer.
The fluffy stuff is in a class of it's own,but it also stirs up so much argment and strife and it links in with the rise of Eclectic Wicca,in the eyes of many Initiatories.They blame the Eclectics,perhaps a little unjustly for all the rubbish online.
It could be argued that releasing the Oathbound material would sort that problem out.The definitive original doctrine of Wicca,impossible to argue against.Don't see that hapening any time soon,though.
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Clockwork Ghost
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Re: Wiccan vs Wiccan
One thing that always amuses the hell out of me whenever I see anything to do with Wicca is how its made out to be such an old system of beliefs. Its not - Wicca is actually a very modern take on traditional witchcraft and in no way represents what witchcraft was like back in medieval times. Paganism and witchcraft too are so often confused as being the same thing, plus Christian versions of Pagan gods are taken to be true Pagan gods and thusly worshipped by people wanting to follow a Wiccan path, much in the same way people follow Baphomet as the goat headed vision beaten out of the Knights Templar.
The amount of time saved by people wanting to follow a traditional witchcraft paradigm through just doing their homework and studying the history of Wicca as opposed to say Traditional Hedge Witchery would save a lot of people a good deal of heart ache, I reckon. That said, theres nothing wrong with Wicca, just as long as you dont expect it to be the same thing they were doing back in Dark Ages Britain or anything...
The amount of time saved by people wanting to follow a traditional witchcraft paradigm through just doing their homework and studying the history of Wicca as opposed to say Traditional Hedge Witchery would save a lot of people a good deal of heart ache, I reckon. That said, theres nothing wrong with Wicca, just as long as you dont expect it to be the same thing they were doing back in Dark Ages Britain or anything...
Re: Wiccan vs Wiccan
Yeah I have to agree, the whole Margaret Murray theory of 'hidden cults passed down via word of mouth down the centuries' was discredited a long time ago, and I understand the longing to feel like you're part of an ancient tradition, but history just doesn't agree with it.
Not that that discredits wicca as a spiritual or magical path, but some people need to come to terms with the fact that it's a relatively new religion that melts modern and ancient practices and beliefs. Personally I find the idea of Wicca as we know it today going back any further than Gerald Gardner fairly sketchy, it seems most likely to me that he took what he felt were the better practices from ceremonial magic and merged them with what he knew of the pre-christian earth based pagan religions.
And there's nothing wrong with that, every religion or path or paradigm has to start somewhere. Just wish people didn't get so worked up about it.
What really bothers me is when people take the witch trial mania of the 15 - 17th centuries and claim it as some kind of affront against their own religion, the whole 'burning times' thing. Those burned by the inquisition were nothing like modern wiccans or witches. Most of them were just poor women who made the mistake of making the wrong enemy, who then accused them as a way of getting them out of the way, or old isolated women, or occasionally those who dabbled in herb lore or hedge magic who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when a disaster occured and people wanted someone to blame. Not to mention those who had nothing to do with the occult at all, but simply pissed the church off by disagreeing with them on theological grounds and so of course must have been in league with the devil. It had far more to do with paranoia and religious fanaticism in a society which was often beset by plague and poor crops and other misfortunes than some kind of campaign by the church to wipe out hidden cults keeping alive the 'old ways.'
Seeing modern wiccans claim this time period as their own personal holocaust bothers me to no end.
Not that that discredits wicca as a spiritual or magical path, but some people need to come to terms with the fact that it's a relatively new religion that melts modern and ancient practices and beliefs. Personally I find the idea of Wicca as we know it today going back any further than Gerald Gardner fairly sketchy, it seems most likely to me that he took what he felt were the better practices from ceremonial magic and merged them with what he knew of the pre-christian earth based pagan religions.
And there's nothing wrong with that, every religion or path or paradigm has to start somewhere. Just wish people didn't get so worked up about it.
What really bothers me is when people take the witch trial mania of the 15 - 17th centuries and claim it as some kind of affront against their own religion, the whole 'burning times' thing. Those burned by the inquisition were nothing like modern wiccans or witches. Most of them were just poor women who made the mistake of making the wrong enemy, who then accused them as a way of getting them out of the way, or old isolated women, or occasionally those who dabbled in herb lore or hedge magic who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when a disaster occured and people wanted someone to blame. Not to mention those who had nothing to do with the occult at all, but simply pissed the church off by disagreeing with them on theological grounds and so of course must have been in league with the devil. It had far more to do with paranoia and religious fanaticism in a society which was often beset by plague and poor crops and other misfortunes than some kind of campaign by the church to wipe out hidden cults keeping alive the 'old ways.'
Seeing modern wiccans claim this time period as their own personal holocaust bothers me to no end.
"The path of the Sage is called
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"
- DDJ, Verse 27
"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"
- DDJ, Verse 27
"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett