OccultForum.org

Hello,

I apologise in advance if you feel like I'm wasting your time. My only view of occultism(I'm deliberately not using the word magic(k) here as it may have different meanings depending who you might ask) has been through fiction only. So you might find what I will ask childish, immature, maybe insulting. I have read many other posts from beginners that face magic with a little skepticism and they were addressed with nothing but anger and disregard. So, just to clarify, you don't have to read this post. You don't have to answer and you most definitely don't have to prove anything unless you want to. I really hope that whoever posts here(if anyone does), they will have taken into account what I said above...

What magic is to me:
1)(What I would like magic(k) to be) A life cheat. Have you played a PC/PS2 game with a cheat console where you can alter gravity, enable invisible mode, add more bullets, kill anyone you want, make yourself invulnerable, watch anyone from a distance, get more weapons, etc. with a few commands? Well, something like that. Examples are telepathy, clairvoyance, astral projection, precognition, teleportation, telekinesis, pyrokinesis, element control(fire, water, earth, wind), shapeshifting, psychic vampirism, immortality, traveling to other dimensions, levitation, cursing, demon summoning, communication with other beings, weather control, resurrection/reanimation, possession, energy projection, matter manipulation, invisibility, mind control, illusions, etc.

Basically: Depending on your knowledge(in the sense of owning public/arcane books and having studied as much as possible) and power(perhaps in the sense of blood, souls or an object of power?), the ability to do anything you want with your mind or mouth...

Fictional Examples: Every depiction of magic in any kind of fiction(Movies, TV Series, Fantasy Books, Comics, etc.).

OR

Even if you're not able to practice the above, at least to be knowledgeable of their existence and capable of manipulating those forces towards your advantage.

Fictional Example: John Constantine[Hellblazer(Vertigo Comics)/DC Comics]

2)What magic(k) probably is. Ok, this may sound insulting... It's just that the vibe I'm getting from everything leads me here... A belief system. An ideology. A way of life. Imagining things that make you feel better. Making rings, bracelets, jewelry as good luck charms and then believing that they helped you. Studying tons of things just to view life differently. Shaping things in your mind but never touching reality... Basically the "Reality is just a matter of perception" theory. Well I am more like a "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."(Nietzsche) type of person.

So: I'm not asking(requesting) you to do anything I have seen in fictional magic or anything I mentioned in the "What I would like magic(k) to be" category. All I'm asking you is:

After one, two or more decades(that some, many or most of you have) of learning and practicing occultism, can you at least:

-Make a speck of dust or a feather fly(with all windows and doors closed and air-conditioning or generally any drift creating devices turned off)

OR

-Light up a match, a cigarette or a candle

OR

-Astral project yourself to another room and watch(+hear) other people

just by thinking or uttering a few words?

P.S. You may call me an idiot. For most of you magic is something highly spiritual and emotional. But I am a pragmatist. A materialist. Replies like "You can't prove magic exists, it's something personal." make me angry. Yes, you can prove magic exists. Snap your fingers and turn a person into stone or turn him into an animal. Is that so hard for someone with real magic? Why would I want magic? To make my life meaningful. I have had some trouble in my personal life for a while and I've been looking for something to help me... Whatever it is. But if magic(k) isn't real(in the way I imagine it to be), then there's no reason why I should waste my time...

Magick does not give you superpowers.

I think what you're asking for is a bit like siddhi. Some people have been said to display powers like these, but in reality these people are few and far between. And, these are people who have trained, not for 10 or 20 years, but entire lifetimes, just to do one "trick". That type of magick is said to exist, but to develop it takes your whole life.

I think it would take several lifetimes to learn enough siddhi to operate anything like a cheatsheet. I guess you'd be wise to start with learning to reincarnate with full prior knowledge And therein lies the problem. If you had total self-awareness, would you even want to learn all those siddhi any more?

We tend to talk more about the subtler arts, shunting probability and manifesting life-changes kinda thing.

I appreciate your replies. Again, I apologise if I sound immature and childish. I understand how I may sound to people like you, who have been seriously involved with magic for years. But as I stated before, I'm not interested in the spiritual content of magic, just it's material applications. So excuse me for that... In that sense, have any of you witnessed something like that? If you were to measure the benefits of magic(k) just as far as your material life is concerned, how much better has your life been since you started learning/practicing it?

In my opinion, the primary area that gets changed as a result of a dedicated study of magic and/or the occult is your own mind. Take me, for example. I suffer from schizophrenia, but keep it under control using mental practices I've learned over the years, all of which can be directly linked to my study of the occult. Yes, a belief in magic could be linked into schizophrenic psychosis, but I personally believe in the reverse - mental illness lead me to study ways to manage psychosis and the occult, and magic, both give you the mental strength needed to break through the cloying tentacles of psychosis, etc.

Can I make a feather rise from the table in a completely sealed room? I doubt anyone can, and there would be some seriously wealthy people out there if they could, seeing as there is a prize of a million dollars on offer online for anyone who can prove magic is real. That said, I'd much prefer to study ways to make myself a better person and more 'in control', rather than waste years studying how to do tricks.

And you dont need to apologise - its okay, most of us have felt the way you do at some point in their studies.

There are sources out there which claim to teach how to achieve these things, and accounts/videos of them doing so, but the internet being what it is it's impossible to say how valid they are. If you're determined to investigate whether such things are possible, your best bet would be to keep an open mind and give it a serious effort.

Here's one video which is circulated quite a bit when this discussion comes up, obviously there's no way to 'prove' it's validity one way or the other, but it is very interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQZg_DqkIWo

And then there are websites like http://www.psionicsonline.net/ , http://psionguild.org/ and the ever famous http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpent ... ation.html (everything said on that site should be taken with a grain of salt, but most of their meditations and methods are stolen from other more legitimate sources, so with discretion they could probably be sourced).

Honestly, the only person who'll ever answer the question of whether such things are possible is you, it's just a question of whether you'd rather live your life not believing or never knowing, or sink months of effort into a potentially fruitless pursuit. Good luck either way, and do let us know if you achieve anything

Actually i like your way of thinking.. i see myself a bit in that to be fair so i don't take it wrong and it seems a pretty legit topic.
For my experience.. being a very pragmatic and very suspicious person by nature which is natural from very rational point of view, i must say that when i was young i started studying probably because i was fascinated with nature, everything that was outside of this very ugly society, the dreams within magick.. in fact you might say a bit of the first of your option. Not that i was dreaming about being able to fly like superman or see unicorns and stuff.. but more like a search for something that would be better than this rotten society.. even if it would last only a few moments.

I must say i dwelled in the occult with intensity at beggining.. i was really well, i won't say obsessed but being a perfectionist i like to try to be the best i can at everything i do, so i was really into it i must say. And in honesty the most pure and beatiful moments i had in my whole experience was the first year maybe two years.. Everything was new and different i was learning everything i could about theology, the pantheons different theories, famous occultists, magickal systems etc etc everything was fresh and new i didn't even know stuff like that existed. But that feeling of being born again, the changes you feel inside of you, when you look into a tree or a river etc. The way you look to people and see the world definitly changes, but that feeling will go away, you are changed now and the feeling will go much like when you learn to walk and after a while you are running.

Yes i must say i had a few experiences not that many to be honest, at least experiences i can't rationally explain. But after a while it's not new anymore, you've heard about alot of things, most neo systems are combinations of systems you already studied, the new theories are theories you already heard mixed with new age stuff, and you start getting a bit dazed and phisically tired about the path imo.

Even tho i'm a solitary student (gladly) i naturally met a few people in the path.. and it was one of the most disappointing things of the whole experience. 90% of the people i met were dellusional people, they weren't crazy but they were doing what you talked about in the first topic. Almost all of them had in common the fact that they weren't very sucessfull in life, they didn't studied didn't had a good job or a good life, they had lots of problems to resolve and they understood what people were looking for in the occult and were taking advantage of it. They were calling themselves above the average human and they could do anything you can imagine. And the funny stuff is people want so hard to believe in that, that they do. The mind is not to be underestimated, and they actually fooled themselves into belief so they could live up the fantasy, and pay alot of money for the ride.

I've met a few nice people too tho won't deny but the quantity is incredibly small compared to the cited above.

In conclusion because this is already a very big comment, i'm in the phase that i realized that spiritual path is essential if it's taken the right way. Even if you were able to do alot of weird stuff people wouldn't even imagine.. what would it be worth? What will you do with it? You still need to sucessful in your life, have relationships, get a job, develop your intelectual. You won't ascend to the skies or anything. So i believe it can be used to make you a sharper person, a more complete human being prepared to the challenges of the day in this crazy world. Much like you go to gym it's a way to connect with your roots for those who believe in spiritual world.

@Case, I'm glad magic(k)/occultism has benefited you like that.

@Rin, thank you for the links. They were really interesting. As for whether I'm going to find out if what I described is true, I honestly doubt it...

@hobotubbie, thanks for taking the time to share your experiences and beliefs. Indeed, it's sad when people want to believe so bad that they abandon logic...

From what I understand, magic(k) has been really helpful to you, mentally and spiritually. So, I guess, in that sense, it does have real effects. However, as I described above, it just isn't enough for me...

Thanks for taking the time to reply, though. I hope you find everything you're looking for in magic(k)/occultism.

Yes it did helped me a bit and it hurted me aswell in the process, losing faith is a constant for those who take the path, you will be faced with hard tasks and hard moments but for me it always paid off.
I'm happy in the end and i really feel it's something inherent to myself and even tho i've taken a few breaks from the study because of issues related to it.. it's something i will always carry with me.

I just talked a bit about myself in a somewhat superficial way because it would take a book or something for one to describe all of his experiences, feelings towards the situations etc etc. But i think it's pretty explanatory about the beggining thro my own experience. I understand what you are looking for .. and i didn't went into much detail and i won't either because it's personal but, i had a few experiences i can't describe like i said. I can't find an cientific explanation for those, they were spiritual and can only be seen as manifestations of something that you can call magick. I've done a few things i didn't thought it was possible, but all in all what i was trying to say, those things were something i was eager to see in the beggining but with time they became irrelevant.

I don't want to give you a lecture or anything because this is just my experience and everyone takes it differently like i said and you need to live things to understand them. If you want to know if you will know if magick exists or not, i would say you will. If it will be enough to satisfy you? Only you will find out.

Anyways, why are you so eager for this? I don't want to get it too personal because i don't know a thing about your life, but i hope it's not a way to escape your real life because it won't work like that.

Good luck with your search man, keep us informed.

Anyways, why are you so eager for this? I don't want to get it too personal because i don't know a thing about your life, but i hope it's not a way to escape your real life because it won't work like that.

I've been looking for something to be passionate about for a while. Something to think whenever I wake up, something that will make each day special. Magic(k) fits that category, but only in the way I would like it to be...

Good luck with your search man, keep us informed.

I still don't know if I'm gonna get involved with this, but thanks anyway. Good luck to you too.

1. Magick manifests its results as synchronicities. You do something small like a ritual for money. A white light doesn't suddenly appear and shower you with money. You maybe find a $20 blowing down the street the next day or happen to find a bill in an old wallet. You can't turn a pile of sand in the desert into a pile of fruit with magick. That's miracle working, not magick. That's all I will say regarding magick.

2. The astral plane is something totally different from magick. The two are often intertwined as it's typically much easier to communicate with entities on the astral planes, but the astral planes are simply different perceptions of 'reality' I suppose.

I will post a few things tomorrow when I am on an actual computer that you might want to try as they aren't especially time-consuming.

Sorry for the delay, something unexpected came up.

Anyways, read up on this http://thefoolspeaks.com/showthread.php?t=609 ritual, follow the instructions, and attempt practice at it for about 3 weeks or more if you feel so inclined, preferably missing few days where you are unable to practice it. Your needs are your own, so choose the appropriate ending invocation. Word of advice, if you're looking for a steady income of money, it would be better to perform the invocation for success, imagining you find a good job that provides you a steady stream of income, rather than the invocation for money, as the invocation for money is not going to provide with $908639054890, it simply isn't (probably). But your needs are your own. Do as you choose.

One illustraton I heard. Try to use magic to make a packet of ketchup float toward you on a table? It would take years if at all. Use magic correctly to recieve a packet of ketchup soon - you will end up having one thrown at you from a car. I think that sums it up. Its supposed to be about the universe arranging normal events in your favor.

@Eric, thanks for the link. I don't know if I'm really going to try it, but thank you anyway.

@Mutate, thanks for taking the time to reply. Yes, I believe I now understand what someone should expect from magic(k)...

Thanks everyone...

I think that there is a big connection between magic and the modern self improvement/NLP type scene, but I don't think that dis-credits magic so much as reveals the not often mentioned religious aspect of NLP. And there is one, seeing as (if i remember correctly) the 2 founders of NLP believe in the occult and one claims to have started his research after a book on hypnotism floated out of the shelf in a store and landed in front of him.

Mutate wrote:I think that there is a big connection between magic and the modern self improvement/NLP type scene, but I don't think that dis-credits magic so much as reveals the not often mentioned religious aspect of NLP. And there is one, seeing as (if i remember correctly) the 2 founders of NLP believe in the occult and one claims to have started his research after a book on hypnotism floated out of the shelf in a store and landed in front of him.

Hmyea, good point, I can't see any clear lines between some of this... for example lots of old folk magickish type things seems to work like NLP does. Often in combination with weird items one has to spend time collecting or making, while (probably) thinking a lot about the reason one is going through all this trouble.

If you are into candle magick that uses Head Hoc, I've designed a start of the day ritual. It can be used as an entrance into the day, or into a magick session... visit my site: http://www.scribd.com/doc/118460301/Start-of-the-Day

For more of my thoughts and theories about magick, look here (its rather long, and not fully developed... Stop back for updates): http://www.scribd.com/doc/118460206/Magic-and-Covenants

GG