OccultForum.org

I've been lurking for a little while to read some of the threads and created one in the Satanist forum, but I figured I would introduce myself. [smile]

You can call me JC and I'm an author who was raised Catholic - went to Catholic school, went to church 3 times a week, Christmas was a 2 hour long mass, Easter vigil, Palm Sunday, etc. of course, Catholics are taught about and interested in the occult insomuch as protecting your eternal soul from it. We learned that Pagans were basically tree hungers who did drugs and loved sex and Satanists were horribly misguided individuals who were all lured to the faith by Satan himself promising all kinds of goodies. Other than that, we learned almost nothing about other faiths. In fact, when I went to public school for the first time in 9th grade, that was the first time I met a Jew and learned that latkes were not frisbees (though they might as well be, blech). The first time I met a Muslim, I was 17 years old. The first time I met a Wiccan, I was 18 and in college, but I had very little contact with her. I ended up marrying a Jew, which some of my family was rather upset about, hurled antisemitic insults at my then fiancé and refused to attend our wedding. Sadly, there are some in my family who are Holocaust deniers or believe that the murdering of 6 million innocent people was actually a good thing. (I am deeply ashamed of them and can't stop apologizing to my spouse for the horrid treatment from that side of the family)

The others were quite happy to have the diversity in the family (that is how closed off we are, lol) and go to great lengths (much to my embarrassment) to make my spouse feel like one of the family by purchasing Jewish things they don't know what they are and burning latkes in an attempt to fry them on the wrong Jewish holiday. My spouse is religious, believes in God in the non-physical sense, and is open to incorporating some outside ideas into our household. Our household though is predominantly a Jewish household and our children will very likely be raised as Jews at my spouse's request, but will be exposed to other ideas too just to give them a sense of all of the possibilities in the world. So, that is my background.

I consider myself an open-minded skeptic. I don't discount experiences that people have and feel that everyone is entitled to follow their own path, but I am very interested in learning more about the occult now as an adult who has started reading about it. I do not intend to ever practice the Occult, have never felt that I could perform magic, and am not sure was "magic" even means in a practical sense. And that is why I'm here. There is a lot that I don't yet understand about the occult and the people who practice it and I would like to.

I'm not here to cast doubt on anyone's beliefs or persuade anyone to adopt a different set of beliefs, but I do want to ask questions about those beliefs. Please do not take offense as I am careful to not word things in such a way as to suggest that anyone is wrong. In fact, I don't know what the "correct" philosophy is, so I feel that anything is possible.

If anyone wants to message me about their opinions or ranting on anything to do with faith and spirituality, I would love to read it. I'm not here to debate anything, but I will read with an open mind and ask questions. If you want to criticize the Catholic, Christian, or Jewish faiths in a message, go right ahead. Do not worry about offending me! I am here to learn the opinions of those I've had very little contact with throughout my life no matter what those opinions might be.

Hello and welcome to the forum. [grin]

Hello dear and welcome. I'm new here just as you, and looking forward to Get to know you...

Welcome to the forum JC I hope you find what you're looking for.

Your family life sounds a little bit like a sit-com. It's very cool that you're out and about looking for other philosophies and ways of life even without intent to practice aspects of convert at all. Good on ya

Have fun [happy]

Christians crack me up. Christianity came from Judaism, the "Old Testament" is really the Torah. Jesus was a Jew. It's practically the same religion with different rituals, the dogma is basically the same. Christians hating Jews is like someone hating their parents for existing first. I appreciate your interest in learning about others beliefs, but even Wicca is a lot like Christianity. I'm glad you're asking questions about Satanism and Left Hand Path, but if you really want to understand it you will have to throw out all of your ideas about religion. It's completely different. I hope you are open-minded, and seriously looking to educate yourself. If that's not the case this isn't a zoo, and we aren't animals to be gawked at for entertainment. Or are we research for a book?

but even Wicca is a lot like Christianity.

Wat [confused]

Or are we research for a book?

I'd be happy to be researched for a book

Anyway, welcome OP. You'll (hopefully) find most of the people here pretty open minded and open to questions and discussion, and it's always nice to have different perspectives and opinions to contribute. It sounds like you're looking for knowledge and understanding just like the rest of us, so you should fit right in.

Yes Rin, Wicca is a lot like Christianity...in fact I know some Wiccans that are also Christians.

As someone who went to a catholic high school I can appreciate how much the blinders of religious education can restrict one's view of the diversity of the world, but then again when my parents cut the check for my school each month, I know that in the back of their mind that was what they wanted. Uncertainty and fear can be a powerful motivator for a parent to buy the church's "antidote."

Serenitydawn wrote:Yes Rin, Wicca is a lot like Christianity...in fact I know some Wiccans that are also Christians.

How so? Other than both (theoretically) being fairly far RHP, I'd say they're pretty far apart as far as religions go. Both religions definitely have a tendency to attract people for reasons other than a spiritual affinity with the core belief system, which results in a lot of misinterpretation and insincerity, but that doesn't effect the actual core beliefs. Which similarities are you seeing between the two?

WELCOME JC!!! [clown]

it'll be wonderful to have someone here who can act as a sponge and wants to listen to our rants!

and since i do so luuuuuuuuv to talk to people, i think i'll pm you right now! [gz]

^ and on that note RMCP (hey, it's almost RHCP!), drop into the chat room sometime. It's fun to talk shit in realtime

Rin wrote:How so? Other than both (theoretically) being fairly far RHP, I'd say they're pretty far apart as far as religions go. Both religions definitely have a tendency to attract people for reasons other than a spiritual affinity with the core belief system, which results in a lot of misinterpretation and insincerity, but that doesn't effect the actual core beliefs. Which similarities are you seeing between the two?

Well you noted two similarities in your response, but I'll give you another one -- they are so loaded with dogma that to be an adherent of either faith requires one to see the world as they do, to worship in either faith means swallowing a bunch of unexamined biases. It isn't up to the believer to choose how to believe, such important matters are decided for them, they're both ivory tower faiths.

^ and on that note RMCP (hey, it's almost RHCP!), drop into the chat room sometime. It's fun to talk shit in realtime

Heh,I spotted that too,lol.

And please do drop into chat sometimes,I second that. [thumbup]

AmericanWarlock wrote:

Rin wrote:How so? Other than both (theoretically) being fairly far RHP, I'd say they're pretty far apart as far as religions go. Both religions definitely have a tendency to attract people for reasons other than a spiritual affinity with the core belief system, which results in a lot of misinterpretation and insincerity, but that doesn't effect the actual core beliefs. Which similarities are you seeing between the two?

Well you noted two similarities in your response, but I'll give you another one -- they are so loaded with dogma that to be an adherent of either faith requires one to see the world as they do, to worship in either faith means swallowing a bunch of unexamined biases. It isn't up to the believer to choose how to believe, such important matters are decided for them, they're both ivory tower faiths.

Uhh, are we talking about the same Wicca? Wicca is so open ended you have to cling to the edges or you'll fall out. I'm sure certain groups within the religion are dogmatic, but given the lack of official structure, the wide variety of groups and traditions under that label and especially in the last few decades the massive lean towards eclecticism, I just don't see it. All religion requires you to 'see the world as they do' and 'swallow unexamined biases' to a certain extent, that's what religion is, a frame, a worldview you adopt. I'd say wicca does so much less than most mainstream religions, and probably less than a lot of fringe religions too.

What kind of dogma are you talking about? Genuinely curious here, I don't have much experience with Wicca other than a brief teenage fling with it at 13/14 which introduced me to the occult. But I think I know it as well as an outsider can know a religion, and I don't see a lot of dogma in it.

Idk, I think there is a dogma to the extent that they have a certain set of beliefs that are common to all those that call themselves Wiccan. Again it took me two seconds to realize it wasn't for me, so it's been awhile since I've ready anything remotely RHP let alone Wiccan. These opinions were all formed 10 years ago when I actually read their stuff. I mean some of the books I read even talked about angels.

I think there is a dogma to the extent that they have a certain set of beliefs that are common to all those that call themselves Wiccan

That's what a religion is.

Rin wrote:

I think there is a dogma to the extent that they have a certain set of beliefs that are common to all those that call themselves Wiccan

That's what a religion is.

That's why they're all the same. [grin]

The difference is in the nature of those beliefs.

Rin wrote:The difference is in the nature of those beliefs.

Yeah but it's the white light fluffy bunny nature that's the same.

That doesn't make them 'the same,' it means they fall on a similar area of the spectrum (arguably, but we'll accept it now for the sake of debate) on one particular qualifier. Wicca falls much further from the other Abrahamic religions than they do from eachother, are we now saying that Christianity and Judaism and Islam are all the same? Are the religions of the world to be swept up under two broad labels for the sake of simplification?

You seem to have a slanted and vastly simplified opinion of what these two religions entail. Judging Wicca by the crystal queen new age crowd or Christianity by Sunday morning Christians who've never read a Bible isn't much better than those who say that all LHPers are pissy teenagers with too much black makeup, or raping, murdering, cursing, evil satanists bent on stealing your soul and destroying the world.

I do think Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are the same. They have similar dogma, much more so than Wicca. I think they all come from the same thing, well Christianity came from Judaism except for the whole Jesus thing they are the same. They even share a book, as I mentioned in my first post in this thread. Haven't really spent much time on Islam, don't know much about it other than the general dogma is basically the same. One god created everything no other gods exist...angels...demons...blah blah blah. I'm not saying they are exactly the same, but the basics are the same. People just like to concentrate on differences instead of similarities.

My view of Wicca is based on what I've read more than anything. Christianity I've grown up around. Where I live it's everywhere, I have met and am related to a ton of them. I had one uncle that was atheist, everyone else is some degree of Christian so I have plenty of variety to base my opinions of Christianity on.

it sounds like the books you got were some really fluffy, new agey shit :p

Rin wrote:it sounds like the books you got were some really fluffy, new agey shit :p

Could be, idk, the guy who told me to get them was not into that stuff at all. Actually he wasn't even Wiccan, he was Asatru. [lol] And he was into LaVey's writings, luckily for me since he was kinda able to steer me in the right direction.