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I read through The Necronomicon recently, and the spellbook by Simon. I have never had the confidence to summon or invoke spirits before, I thoght I'd need more practice in the basics before taking this step. But Simon's spell book makes it seem fairly easy to summon one of the 50 names. So I'm thinking of going ahead with invoking barashakushu...

It might be a fitting time too, since I'm going through a really bad phase and could use some help. What I'm wondering is, could the fact that Im mentally and emotionally troubled come in the way of calling the spirit or make him angry or something? As much as I really really need help, I dont want to invite more troble... :|

Thank you in advance!

Hello again Darkwing,

I'm sorry to hear about your situation and I hope that whatever it is that is the problem will improve. Regarding working with this system (there are several Necronomicons since it is a modern creation), I will offer you my opinion and my advice.

There has already been something of a discussion on the subject of the Necronomicon and beginning occult practices recently with Nemerian on the following thread, which I post for your consideration: http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... =4&t=35765

I don't think I'm out of line quoting Nahemah (who I admit is more experienced than I) that these systems are not good for beginners. I can't repeat his specific reasons but there are a few things you might want to consider otherwise. The entities of this system, I think we all would agree, are thought-forms or tulpas. So, while they are able to act energetically they are composed of that which is put into them: this is exclusively a more negative energy and destructive programming. I don't doubt there are magicians who can manage such energies and not be effected. Are you sure that's you?

When scientists work with radioactive materials they have specific training and protective equipment which is tested and trusted. Are you sure that a system which claims to be something it is not, pre-Sumerian, and was made to mass market for profit can be trusted as is?

With the right concentration it is possible to get something, but, will you be able to communicate with it and be aware of it? How will you get rid of it? Whatever it is that is motivating you to consider this is obviously problem enough, adding another layer on top of that would seem to be moving in the wrong direction.

I'm not telling you, with some religious morality, that the demons, the dark thought-forms and the rakshashas (notice I omitted the Asura because I like them and they're not bad!) are to be avoided at all times and in all ways. They have their role and their place in the dance of the universe. It is my opinion, shared by the Medieval & Renaissance mages of Europe and many modern masters, that this is a level that one must work towards. I'm sure you can get there but I advise caution at this point.

Asurendra wrote:Hello again Darkwing,

I'm sorry to hear about your situation and I hope that whatever it is that is the problem will improve. Regarding working with this system (there are several Necronomicons since it is a modern creation), I will offer you my opinion and my advice .

thank you so much for replying!

Thing is, the very reason why I turned to occultism was as an escape clause to cope with the problems that have been hovering around for almost 4 years now. Somewhere along the way I got interested in these arts for its own sake and Ive tried to learn the theories, I meditate whenever I get time. And although I know there are no shortcuts and quick fixes, the Necronomicon spellbook made me hope for a while. It specifically stated that beginners could work it.

Also I have a very silly question. When you "invoke" or "summon" deities, gods and goddesses, do they come to you as a real spirit (as happens during a seance) or are they all tulpas, imaginative and spiritual creations?

I know from intuitive feeling that whatever is and has been happening around me is due to some astrological imbalance, or some negativity around our house. But there's no way to convince my family of that. Working my way up to invocations and rituals will possibly take few years. And its getting so hard to deal.. A "magical solution" is what we need! I still feel this desperate urge to ask, is there no working method for establishing peace or preventing hostility that a beginner may attempt? Is witchcraft and hoodoo a suitable or easier alternative?

Thank you once again for all the links and resources. I'll give each one of them a read!

When you "invoke" or "summon" deities, gods and goddesses, do they come to you as a real spirit (as happens during a seance) or are they all tulpas, imaginative and spiritual creations?

When you invoke - you are inviting it in within you. It's not always easy to kick them back out.

When you evoke - you are summoning them. If you don't have the personal power or the fancy ceremonial doodads correct - they don't obey.

Deities are gods and goddesses and they usually don't like being summoned. Summon one that really dislikes being ordered about by mere mortals and you'll end up wishing you were never born.

Some people think that everything out there is a thought form of some type. I'm not one of them. You can create thoughtforms, servitors and egregores (although the former does tend to take on a life of it's own and can be created spontaneously).

There are varying levels of the dead. From echos to interactive and sentient ghosts to full on full on hauntings and possessions.

Spirits and entities- that's a great big area that covers everything from plant or land spirits to beings from other realms that are able to travel through them - including angels and demons.

Then there's assorted deities. Local gods and goddesses that have left their local areas as the world got smaller. Odin and Zeus are examples of this and I don't think most people consider them 'small' gods but they did start out in local areas. Jehovah started out in Israel, some believe he branched into the Muslim faith while others think that Allah stands on his own. All of the gods that we know of today started somewhere.

I know from intuitive feeling that whatever is and has been happening around me is due to some astrological imbalance, or some negativity around our house. But there's no way to convince my family of that.

Working my way up to invocations and rituals will possibly take few years. And its getting so hard to deal.. A "magical solution" is what we need!

If I had a dollar for every time I've heard that over the years. If you don't know what you're doing - magic makes it worse. An unbalanced magician who can't deal is a danger to himself and others. I was reminded of this in the last couple weeks when someone came to me for help - to get out of the mess they created while trying to find that 'magical, quick fix solution.' Ugh.

Hmmmm - astrological imbalance -OR- negativity in the house. Those things are so different that they might as well be on opposite ends of the scale. Either the stars are out of alignment or there's a blip of negativity in your house? Hope for the negativity - it's easier to fix. I can also understand why your family's having a hard time being convinced.

I still feel this desperate urge to ask, is there no working method for establishing peace or preventing hostility that a beginner may attempt? Is witchcraft and hoodoo a suitable or easier alternative?

Witchcraft and Hoodoo are full systems within themselves. Neither is 'easy'. I'm not here to debate whether 'everyone' can be a witch. They can't. You're either a witch or you're not. Not everyone is. Not everyone has blue eyes or brown hair. Hoodoo is a magical system that anyone can practice. If you want to learn Hoodoo - go find a rootworker who is willing to mentor you. It's a very involved system. The information you find on the internet is only partial. Rootworkers don't publish all their secrets.

Establishing peace and preventing hostility.

Well, that's easier to work towards if you actually know what is causing it but there are some things that you can do on your own without a whole lot of training.

- Put out some rose quartz - the bigger the better. They are making them as tealight candle holders now (so awesome!)
- Get some white sage/smudge stick and smudge the house and property.
- Toss salt in all the rooms, sweep it towards the center, scoop it up and throw it out in the back corner of your property.
- Anoint some white or pale pink candles to 'promote peace and love in the home' and get in the habit of using them. (Don't work in the negative)
- Light some light to medium blue or violet candles for 'general healing'. If you don't know what it is that's wrong - guessing isn't going to help.
- Make lavender sachets around the house or use lavender incense. It's a very calming scent.

Yes, I know - it's not very 'Ceremonial' but then again - I'm a witch - not a Ceremonial Magician. This is just basic stuff that anybody can do. One does not need to be magically inclined for these methods to work. Crystals, salt, plants, etc. all do their own thing. Sure, you could try charging them or infusing them with intent but there's no need to. These things work the way they do because of the nature of what they are. All you need to do is put it on a shelf and let it do what it does best without any interference. Except for the smudge stick - you actually do have to light that to get the smoke and physically carry it around the house.

I read through The Necronomicon recently, and the spellbook by Simon. I have never had the confidence to summon or invoke spirits before, I thoght I'd need more practice in the basics before taking this step. But Simon's spell book makes it seem fairly easy to summon one of the 50 names. So I'm thinking of going ahead with invoking barashakushu...

It might be a fitting time too, since I'm going through a really bad phase and could use some help. What I'm wondering is, could the fact that Im mentally and emotionally troubled come in the way of calling the spirit or make him angry or something? As much as I really really need help, I dont want to invite more troble... :|

What is it with beginners and the Necronomicon?!?!? ugh! <We need a 'smashing head on a brick wall' smiley>

The fact that you're mentally and emotionally troubled along with the fact that you're inexperienced will bring you more trouble than you could possibly imagine in ways you've never even considered. At best - you'll be serving yourself up for lunch. If you summon something that you cannot control you could, very likely, serve your family up as an all you can eat buffet. If you do it in your house or property (and succeed in summoning) - you just invited in - into your life and the lives of everyone who lives there. If you don't have the personal power, knowledge and skills - you have no hope of controlling it. The havoc that I've seen run through the lives of people that were desperate for a quick fix has been substantial.

"But Simon's spell book makes it seem fairly easy"
Of course it does. Mostly because it doesn't teach you the knowledge or skill sets required to handle such a thing. A brief outline of the techniques used - does not for knowledge make. If you manage to get something to appear - are you confident that you can control it? If the answer is no - then the smartest thing is not to do it.

Hello Darkwing,

I'm glad that you're considering what Rose Red aka Miss Moonbeam and I said in our posts. The links that I gave to Nemerian provide a starting point to build the knowledge base and skill set that you need to be successful in the occult. Something else that I mentioned on that thread is that the systems presented in the various Necronomicons are imbalanced. I personally think it is very important to have a strong connection to positive higher powers. You may decide, for magical reasons, that you feel a connection to Christianity or Judaism and want to begin working with the archangels and then the angels in preparation to taking on the demons of the Goetia. Or, maybe you worship Lord Vishnu.

You asked how the spirits appear. First, while I had some very limited clairvoyant ability it took work with the tattwas and trataka yoga to be able to perceive my aura and then these entities. I'm still working & developing. Second, you are dealing here with an event that is on the boarder line where the subjective and objective are blurred and with transcendental beings of consciousness (we're talking about the angels/devas) which are not locked-in to one form. Now the good part. My path to these beings is not the Judeo-Christian forms but the Hindu. So, the the west, for example, I do not have the Archangel Gabriel but Lord Varuna (they are the SAME ENTITY). I will use him as my example.

When I Invoke them on the Almadel or with the pentagram using the fixed gaze, the first thing that happens as I vibrate the name is that the space appears to darken and fold in on itself. There are then bright, flashing phosphene within swirling clouds. These have an electrical or neon characteristic. There are then mixed images with blended perspectives like a wild Picasso that are hard to capture. This 'settles-down' into one form. If I move slightly, I can see this from different angles like a physical object. If I move my eye away, it does not follow my vision but will appear in the periphery vision. I did this as a test (always have a healthy skepticism of yourself). These images are all 3-D.

They do not all show the same view of themselves (but they are all very beautiful & awe inspiring) so I will go back to my example. Lord Varuna sits cross-legged in very simply clothing like a Buddha statue. But he has an ornate headdress. The figure is about 1 foot high and looks like a flashing sculpture of electricity except he moves. Where the shadows would be in the sculpture there is empty space giving the appearance of depth. Finally, their appearance is not simply a visual phenomenon. There is a strong, positive sensation and elation emanating from them. These fake aliens from the Pleiades people channel always have to try and impress upon us how 'advanced' & 'powerful' they are: the devas HAVE NO SUCH NEED. It's obvious.

These are my experiences. Yours may be different, they might appear as luminous geometric shapes, for example or a regular people but with blue skin. I'm not highly advanced, yet, I have a lot to learn and need much more work to fully develop. With the grace of these beings and the Supreme Lord I hope I will have the chance so that I may use my skills to assist others.

Asurendra wrote:These images are all 3-D

You mean, you could take a picture of them?

Hello Urscumug,

I think there are a couple of assumptions behind your question that I disagree with. First, when I am seeing this type of phenomenon I am looking clairvoyantly. There is a whole discussion possible here about the techniques I trained with and focus that is too much for this thread and me after I just walked home 2 hours from work. All I can do is suggest further study and practice on your part.

This leads to number two; I don't think it is helpful to regard what I am seeing as something akin to a rare natural phenomenon like ball lighting that I want to run and get a picture of for Facebook. Consider who and what these beings are. They are aware of your mental and emotional states and for that reason they are part of the process here. In other words, I don't think that it is enough to just learn a technique. The mindset is important too.

I'll use the Forum as an example. People come onto the Forum and they bring their questions and their issues. They do this in many different ways. Sometimes they will say something like "what does this-or-that mean?" with little or nothing else. So, Ramscha might say to them (as he has), "If you're not willing to take the time to give us more info and just make demands we won't take the time to help you" while I might try to draw them out. Or, I might answer people and give them sources to help them move forwards in their practice but they ignore me. There are people on the Forum now who I will no longer bother with for this reason, they repeatedly don't listen. It is the same with these entities: if the mindset is not proper you simply will get nowhere. Some will be more patient but if they are regarded as something akin to the ball lightning I mentioned then the connection will not get far. I'm not accusing you or lecturing to you to worship them, it's just something to think about.

Hello Asurendra, I made no assumptions, it was just makeing a joke on your validation process. You are presenting the fact that its 3D structure is properly aligned with your clairvoyant eyes, what is this supposed to prove considering we are not talking about physical objects?

I'm not out to prove anything to anyone but myself. My only suggestion to you is to not believe me but learn the operations and experience it for yourself. Not too many years ago I would not have believed it either.

RoseRed wrote:

Well, that's easier to work towards if you actually know what is causing it but there are some things that you can do on your own without a whole lot of training.

- Put out some rose quartz - the bigger the better. They are making them as tealight candle holders now (so awesome!)
- Get some white sage/smudge stick and smudge the house and property.
- Toss salt in all the rooms, sweep it towards the center, scoop it up and throw it out in the back corner of your property.
- Anoint some white or pale pink candles to 'promote peace and love in the home' and get in the habit of using them. (Don't work in the negative)
- Light some light to medium blue or violet candles for 'general healing'. If you don't know what it is that's wrong - guessing isn't going to help.
- Make lavender sachets around the house or use lavender incense. It's a very calming scent.

Yes, I know - it's not very 'Ceremonial' but then again - I'm a witch - not a Ceremonial Magician. This is just basic stuff that anybody can do. One does not need to be magically inclined for these methods to work. Crystals, salt, plants, etc. all do their own thing. Sure, you could try charging them or infusing them with intent but there's no need to. These things work the way they do because of the nature of what they are. All you need to do is put it on a shelf and let it do what it does best without any interference. Except for the smudge stick - you actually do have to light that to get the smoke and physically carry it around the house.

Thank you so much for these tips and for explaining the difference between evoke and invoke. It's no wonder why they don't like being summoned! I believe I've heard of the salt sweeping method before but somehow it wasn't on my mind. I'm going to give it a try and hopefully things will calm down a little.

I'm going to take your advice and stay off spirits and gods for now. I know I'm not ready so there's nothing to argue here. Thing is where I live there isn't a single rootworker for miles so I don't have a choice but to learn from books and online. Thank you again! Now that I know you are a practicing witch I will definitely come to you again for advice!

Asurendra wrote: You asked how the spirits appear. First, while I had some very limited clairvoyant ability it took work with the tattwas and trataka yoga to be able to perceive my aura and then these entities. I'm still working & developing. Second, you are dealing here with an event that is on the boarder line where the subjective and objective are blurred and with transcendental beings of consciousness (we're talking about the angels/devas) which are not locked-in to one form. Now the good part. My path to these beings is not the Judeo-Christian forms but the Hindu. So, the the west, for example, I do not have the Archangel Gabriel but Lord Varuna (they are the SAME ENTITY). I will use him as my example.

When I Invoke them on the Almadel or with the pentagram using the fixed gaze, the first thing that happens as I vibrate the name is that the space appears to darken and fold in on itself. There are then bright, flashing phosphene within swirling clouds. These have an electrical or neon characteristic. There are then mixed images with blended perspectives like a wild Picasso that are hard to capture. This 'settles-down' into one form. If I move slightly, I can see this from different angles like a physical object. If I move my eye away, it does not follow my vision but will appear in the periphery vision. I did this as a test (always have a healthy skepticism of yourself). These images are all 3-D.

Thank you for explaining in such detail. But now it's brought about more questions! I was reading some of the links you sent and it led me to an article that spoke of antaranga trataka and bahiranga trataka or inner and outer trataka. I'm not very regular with meditation but I've been doing it over a very long period of time. Recently I noticed, while focusing on a flame when I close my eyes and concentrate on the mental image of it, after a while I can clearly "see" the flame. It glows yellow and red and sometimes seems to flicker. I cant hold on to this image for very long (I need more practice) but I was wondering, is this what inner trataka is? And while summoning or evoking, is this how the process is supposed to proceed?

Also another thing regarding trataka, I understand that the object I'm focusing on is supposed to disappear after a while, is that right? How long do I have to hold that gaze before I allow myself to 'see' the object again? Right now I'm practising with a half inch black dot. What is the maximum size of an object that can be made invisible thru trataka?

I know I'm asking too many questions!

Thank you again! Now that I know you are a practicing witch I will definitely come to you again for advice!

You're welcome.

You can ask but that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm going to answer.

You're on the right teack, just practice regularly. Just 10 minutes a day should do it. Everyone is different so I don't know how long this will take. I had to work a bit.