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Help me understand magik
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 3:15 pm
by energy7
I thought I understood magik but the more I read the less about magik I realize I know. I understand at the core, magik is manipulating energy. The difference (in my limited understanding) between types of magik or spells is merely semantics. That is to say, whether you're doing a ceremonial ritual, a jar spell or sigil magik, it's just a different medium in how the energy and intent are utilized. I understand calling on the power of an element or spirit is different, but it would seem basic magik would hold equal power regardless of the method.
I'm beginning to question my understanding though the more I read. Is there more too a sigil or spell? Does the sigil itself hold power? I was thinking how the SOI needs to be phrased correctly. minor differences shouldn't matter as we know what we want when we're putting our intent into it so why would the specific verbiage matter? It seems you could do it by just focusing intent as i draw a random doodle. But it seems it can matter quite a deal.
Reading about jar spells, it seems to be a slower path but once it gets going it has huge momentum. Why would it manifest differently than compared to say, sigil magik?
I assumed that the magik happened solely at a subconscious level. But I'm curious if the physical elements of magik (incense, sigil, jar, herbs etc) help the result happen as well in their own cosmic/astral way.
I'd appreciate any feedback to help me better understand. I realize these are pretty basic questions but I'm at loss on how to progress with my own journey. Thanks in advance.
Re: Help me understand magik
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 3:59 pm
by manofsands
I was pretty much in the same place with magick as you when I started frequenting this forum on a regular basis. As such, I am no expert but possibly one closer to your point of view.
First, of course, people will give different significance to the items in question. It depends on their perspective and where they started from.
From my point of view, you would be right in saying most magick should be as powerful as another... in general. Most magick to me is just visualization and focus (intention and attention). But the methods may vary in effect. A scribble visualization or a sigil may do exactly what you need, where a ceremonial ritual may have more effect because the attention is greater. More symbols are being energized instead of just the one. The focus Is greater and of a longer duration (repetition). Most ceremonial majick seems to be about getting all you correspondences focused on a certain out come. The colors, the symbols, the planets, the entities invoked, the words... all these things would multiple the focus. Some magick is done on certain days or planetary alignments and such. The wait alone allows an unconscious build up of intention to the desired result. Some magick is done with many people, acting out a 'play' or theatrical intention. All this can effect the way the energy is manipulated. However, maybe one who can give supreme intention, attention and repetition to a sigil could have equal effect... but we're talking master level.
Now I say this all tounge in cheek because I've done next to no magick so far and have only come to this conclusion from reading posts, books and a little intuition.
(As far as entity work goes, invoking/evoking, I'm still on the fence. I just don't have much reference. Its like believing in UFOs without having seen one. There is the question of how much is just 'in your mind' vs. 'outside influence'. Only experience can help answer that question. I have little of significance, but many here do).
Re: Help me understand magik
Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 5:21 pm
by energy7
Thanks so much for the reply!
Regarding heading down a path with spirits/daemons/etc is not something I feel confident at this point.
I like your explanation about how some methods require more energy to be put in like a jar spell and the anticipation helps build the energy. That makes perfect sense to me.
I've done only very little magik. While I've seen results it hasn't manifested how I envisioned. This is part of why I'm questioning if there's more to it than purely my intent. I also feel my goals were a but lofty for my skill level. And as I'm researching more, maybe beyond what sigil can (reliably) Accomplish.
So how I'm reading this you're feeling is that it's in the intent and the physical tools don't hold power in themselves?
Re: Help me understand magik
Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 7:03 am
by Desecrated
I'll take an example from hoodoo, because I just finished the book.
Normal method:
Go on a diet, get hungry, break diet.
Hoodoo version:
Go on a diet.
Make your own oil. From scratch.
Find a special candle.
Rub the oil on the candle.
Make another oil.
Take a bath in that oil.
Make your own powder.
Light the candle.
Burn the powder
Say the spell.
Keep the diet.
If you spend that much time and energy on something you want, I don't think you are going to be hindered by a small stepback-. Ceremonial magick can be a way to psych yourself up.
Re: Help me understand magik
Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 12:03 pm
by energy7
Great example desecrated, thank you.
I'm still curious though if any of the physical elements that we put energy into have importance in and of itself. I tried my hand at sigil magik last night for the second time. This time I was more ceremonial about it. Creating the sigil by candlelight of an anointed candle. Verbally spoke my intent including things like why I anointed the candle. A couple prayers during the process. Even
anointing the sigil. What I can say is I felt the energy; after anointing the candle and speaking my intent for doing so, I could feel something in the candle. When I put energy into the sigil I could literally see it glow. Creating the sigil by candlelight even felt different. Now while I'm not convinced it was nothing more than my perception because I put effort into it, I'm also not convinced the candle and sigil now hold some of that energy and intent.
Re: Help me understand magik
Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 12:58 pm
by manofsands
There is no way to answer the question definitively. It is up to you to decide for yourself what you believe. The obvious answer is if it works then it doesn't matter. But the question is still an interesting one to ponder.
In one case, the sigil and tools are just props for your mind and everything happens therein. In the other case these items are actually being charged and add to the total energy output.
The second case has phenomenon of (dang, can't remember the word) where people can read energy from objects (even though it isn't related to majick)... and another case of ghosts, going thru motions of their previous life like a skipping record player, infused into a dwelling. These make me think the second case has more merit. Also, the first case is more bland an explanation.. and majick enjoys theatrics.
As a side note, be careful what you charge, and keep up with those items, because they are a conduit back to you. Even one not wielding magick consciously may have more effect on you with one in their possession.
I personally like the idea of having tools as tattoos. But you have to be sure what you want. I have a sigil tattoo (which actually goes against the way they are normally used) but I haven't officially fired it yet.
Re: Help me understand magik
Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 2:06 pm
by Desecrated
energy7 wrote:Great example desecrated, thank you.
I'm still curious though if any of the physical elements that we put energy into have importance in and of itself. I tried my hand at sigil magik last night for the second time. This time I was more ceremonial about it. Creating the sigil by candlelight of an anointed candle. Verbally spoke my intent including things like why I anointed the candle. A couple prayers during the process. Even
anointing the sigil. What I can say is I felt the energy; after anointing the candle and speaking my intent for doing so, I could feel something in the candle. When I put energy into the sigil I could literally see it glow. Creating the sigil by candlelight even felt different. Now while I'm not convinced it was nothing more than my perception because I put effort into it, I'm also not convinced the candle and sigil now hold some of that energy and intent.
One explanation is that your brain creates the feel of the energy and projects the image of glow because your brain is telling you that you are doing the right thing.
Another explanation is that there really are energy and you just tapped into it.
Re: Help me understand magik
Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 2:58 pm
by energy7
Thank you gents. While I want a definitive answer I suppose there's no clear cut answer. I'd suspect there's people in both camps on the issue. While I can't say with 100% conviction, I tend to believe the tools hold power themselves.
Somewhat related, I definitely feel energy people emit. Not all people and some more than others, but I can sense it. If we have energy we can emit or even force, I would like to assume that can be absorbed by inanimate objects. Of course devil's advocate says I'm picking up in body language and non verbal cues. Which puts me back to square one haha. Regardless good point to ponder none the less as you stated.
Thanks for the input, you've given me some good examples to help me understand and draw parallels [thumbup]
Re: Help me understand magik
Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 3:26 pm
by manofsands
energy7 wrote:
Somewhat related, I definitely feel energy people emit. Not all people and some more than others, but I can sense it. If we have energy we can emit or even force, I would like to assume that can be absorbed by inanimate objects.
Another thing to concider, while 'obvious' nowadays, can still be overlooked... We know that we are, inanimate object are, everything is... Energy. Outside of our eyeballs, which delineate separation, we are just lumps in a connected soup of energy.
Re: Help me understand magik
Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 3:57 pm
by energy7
manofsands wrote:
Another thing to concider, while 'obvious' nowadays, can still be overlooked... We know that we are, inanimate object are, everything is... Energy. Outside of our eyeballs, which delineate separation, we are just lumps in a connected soup of energy.
I think this just broke my brain.
Re: Help me understand magik
Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 6:19 pm
by Desecrated
energy7 wrote:manofsands wrote:
Another thing to concider, while 'obvious' nowadays, can still be overlooked... We know that we are, inanimate object are, everything is... Energy. Outside of our eyeballs, which delineate separation, we are just lumps in a connected soup of energy.
I think this just broke my brain.
E=MC2
"This equation expresses the fact that mass and energy are the same physical entity and can be changed into each other."
For instance, adding 25 kilowatt-hours (90 megajoules) of any form of energy to any object increases its mass by 1 microgram, increasing its inertia and weight accordingly, even though no matter has been added.
Re: Help me understand magik
Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 6:25 pm
by Desecrated
energy7 wrote:Of course devil's advocate says I'm picking up in body language and non verbal cues. Which puts me back to square one haha.
Exactly, BUT because your brain makes you experience it that way, work with it.
I don't understand the physics behind a computer, but I can operate it.
Try and concentrate on other people and really feel their energy. Where is it coming from? is it constant? does it comes in wave? What part of you is feeling it? your hands? your chakras? Can you concentrate really hard and see their aura?
Re: Help me understand magik
Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 6:28 pm
by energy7
Desecrated wrote:
E=MC2
"This equation expresses the fact that mass and energy are the same physical entity and can be changed into each other."
For instance, adding 25 kilowatt-hours (90 megajoules) of any form of energy to any object increases its mass by 1 microgram, increasing its inertia and weight accordingly, even though no matter has been added.
And a science lesson to boot! LOL, OK I understand what manofsands was referring to now.
This brings me to another reason why I feel the tools hold power; conservation of mass and energy. If I'm forcing/emitting energy, that has to go somewhere. Why not the target its intended for?
Re: Help me understand magik
Posted: Fri May 30, 2014 1:54 am
by RoseRed
I'm still curious though if any of the physical elements that we put energy into have importance in and of itself.
Yes, if you're an animist.
I don't have the time to properly respond to this post. i hope someone can remember to bump it in a week. Life is crazy busy right now.
Re: Help me understand magik
Posted: Fri May 30, 2014 9:03 pm
by energy7
thank you for taking the time to post what you did rosered. I would love to hear what you have to say when life calms down and if you feel so inclined. I am unfamiliar with animist so looks like I have some more reading to do.
Re: Help me understand magik
Posted: Fri May 30, 2014 9:43 pm
by Desecrated
energy7 wrote:thank you for taking the time to post what you did rosered. I would love to hear what you have to say when life calms down and if you feel so inclined. I am unfamiliar with animist so looks like I have some more reading to do.
Animism is the idea that everything has a soul.
So they believe that the energy you are feeling from objects is the soul of that object.
There are also those that believes objects are just dead things, but can be containers for energy. haunted dolls and such things.
Most magicians believe that you can charge an object with energy.
Some differ between energy with a soul and pure soulless energy. Some might believe in both.
Re: Help me understand magik
Posted: Fri May 30, 2014 10:53 pm
by energy7
Thanks for the definition des. I'll still look into it but afraid I don't know is buy into that. Charging an object with energy I'm leaning toward though.
Re: Help me understand magik
Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:32 am
by manonthepath
The best way to understand the different paths is to read about them. Many paths have their similarities and differences. some of these differences are great indeed. To answer your questions in full would require a lot of writing. There are many excellent works out there that can help you if you want to search them out. I have a personal favorite that has been of inestimable value to me over the decades. Some like it and some are quite angered by the work. I can't recommend it highly enough. Here is a link:
http://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Anci ... 0285633163
I have encountered a few people over the years with an unreasonable fear and hatred for this work. Please, for all those out there, who hate this work, just leave me in peace. I'm just trying to help a brother out and am not looking to get into it with anyone. Just allow people to read the book and make judgements for themselves.
Re: Help me understand magik
Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:06 am
by manonthepath
manonthepath wrote:The best way to understand the different paths is to read about them. Many paths have their similarities and differences. some of these differences are great indeed. To answer your questions in full would require a lot of writing. There are many excellent works out there that can help you if you want to search them out. I have a personal favorite that has been of inestimable value to me over the decades. Some like it and some are quite angered by the work. I can't recommend it highly enough. Here is a link:
http://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Anci ... 0285633163
I have encountered a few people over the years with an unreasonable fear and hatred for this work. Please, for all those out there, who hate this work, just leave me in peace. I'm just trying to help a brother out and am not looking to get into it with anyone. Just allow people to read the book and make judgements for themselves.
To be a bit more specific here is an excerpt from an old posting of mine regarding this work:
Zolar explores the essence of many important variables in a logical manner. He quite successfully reconciles Taoist principles with those of the Gnostics and Plato. Of course one has to understand these before one is able to recognize this. The book asks us to challenge our pre-concieved beliefs in the interest of true enlightenment (This is what seems to tick off the haters).The book is not for the closed-minded or those lacking mature analytical capabilities. It is geared more for the advanced practitioner or seeker of truth, but can be helpful to the novice as well. It is not a quick, easy read. For the modern, younger reader, I would suggest reading the chapters in this order for easier understanding of the whole: 9, 6, 5, 3, 10 and then the rest. Understanding this text requires time and work, so if that is your taste, go for it. I wish you good fortune.