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I love the book because I believe it gives a complete outlook on Western magic. But I am not into usage of Hebrew language and unnecessary complicated rituals. If anybody here has worked on it what do you think about the book? Is there any good alternative for it sans the complicated rituals, preferably with Demonolatry flavour? TIA.

This book is still the best introductory course to western magick, simply because it is so easy to understand. And it covers pretty much everything you need to know for your first year.
It does have a couple of minor mistakes in it, and not all of the information the author gives you is 100% correct, but it should be a mandatory read.

Alternatives for the book is 'Initiation Into Hermetics' by franz bardon, 'Liber null and the psychonaut' by Peter J. Carroll and 'one year manual' By Israel Regardie.

Out of these 'Liber null' is the easiest to read. That is not to say that it doesn't have some advance parts but if you are looking for simplified rituals; chaos magick is the way to go.

IIH by Bardon is both slightly more complicated and potentially a lot more complicated. To succeed with this program you need a lot of patience and dedication. Bardon wrote 2 other books afterward that ties in to the initial book so it is not a complete course. It is just an initiation for your first 1-3 years of practice.

The one year manual is surprisingly easy to read, it's very practical and not cluttered with too much theory. However I can't recommend it. I don't like his sort/style of magick, and I have some personal doubt about the author as well.

There are other books as well, but these are the most similar to 'Modern Magick' that I can think of at the moment.

Desecrated wrote:IIH by Bardon is both slightly more complicated and potentially a lot more complicated. To succeed with this program you need a lot of patience and dedication. Bardon wrote 2 other books afterward that ties in to the initial book so it is not a complete course. It is just an initiation for your first 1-3 years of practice.

1-3 years of practice? I've been told it is around 5-10 years.

Desecrated wrote:The one year manual is surprisingly easy to read, it's very practical and not cluttered with too much theory. However I can't recommend it. I don't like his sort/style of magick, and I have some personal doubt about the author as well.

As you may have noticed I am delving into GD traditions recently, so I would like to hear your opinion about this book and Regardie.

Desecrated wrote:It does have a couple of minor mistakes in it, and not all of the information the author gives you is 100% correct, but it should be a mandatory read.

Can you provide few examples?

RockDemon wrote:
1-3 years of practice? I've been told it is around 5-10 years.

10 steps, 10 months.
10 steps, 10 years.

As you may have noticed I am delving into GD traditions recently, so I would like to hear your opinion about this book and Regardie.

Crowley was in GD for like 18 months, he never really trained with the others only with Mathers. and then they kicked him out.
Regardie was Crowleys secretary for 2 years and then they had a fight, and crowley kicked him out. I highly doubt any of them had any real knowledge about GD. And whatever version of GD regardie learned it was probably tainted by crowleys teachings.

Napoli wrote:

Desecrated wrote:It does have a couple of minor mistakes in it, and not all of the information the author gives you is 100% correct, but it should be a mandatory read.

Can you provide few examples?

Nope
I cannot for the love of me remember anything specific. But I know when I read the book that I spotted some minor mistakes and was somewhat disappointed.

Desecrated wrote:Alternatives for the book is 'Initiation Into Hermetics' by franz bardon, 'Liber null and the psychonaut' by Peter J. Carroll and 'one year manual' By Israel Regardie.

Not wanting to pick nits or anything, but I've always regarded each of these works as core writings, representative of the development of 20th. Century Western Occultism.
Imho, each of these really ought to be viewed as essential readings rather than alternatives.
.02 [geek2]

TheSeeker wrote:

Desecrated wrote:Alternatives for the book is 'Initiation Into Hermetics' by franz bardon, 'Liber null and the psychonaut' by Peter J. Carroll and 'one year manual' By Israel Regardie.

Not wanting to pick nits or anything, but I've always regarded each of these works as core writings, representative of the development of 20th. Century Western Occultism.
Imho, each of these really ought to be viewed as essential readings rather than alternatives.
.02 [geek2]

I agree with you. If you are interested in understanding magic as a whole they should all be read.
If you on the other hand are interested in finding a good program to work with for a longer period of time you should probably stick to just one of them.
But that doesn't mean that you can't work with the other systems later. They are all close to each other and fairly close to the magic described in modern magick.

Desecrated wrote:

RockDemon wrote:
1-3 years of practice? I've been told it is around 5-10 years.

10 steps, 10 months.
10 steps, 10 years.

As you may have noticed I am delving into GD traditions recently, so I would like to hear your opinion about this book and Regardie.

Crowley was in GD for like 18 months, he never really trained with the others only with Mathers. and then they kicked him out.
Regardie was Crowleys secretary for 2 years and then they had a fight, and crowley kicked him out. I highly doubt any of them had any real knowledge about GD. And whatever version of GD regardie learned it was probably tainted by crowleys teachings.

I realize this is an old post but I just had to comment. I'm really not sure how you could voice an opinion on something and be so completely wrong about it. Besides the fact as you stated Israel Regardie was personally trained by an original Golden Dawn member Crowley (and Crowley was not "only" trained by Mathers [the LEADER] but Benett and George Cecil Jones for YEARS after] but Israel Regardie was in the Stella Matutina.

Do you not know Israel Regardie wrote "the Golden Dawn" and "Complete Golden Dawn"? Do you not realize NONE of the current Golden Dawn groups would exist without Regardie? Do you not realize EVERY Golden Dawn author has learned from either Regardie or someone ripping him off? Do you realize the current two most knowledgable and important Golden Dawn members chic and tabitha Cicero were personally trained by Regardie?

I have never seen such a bizarre and ignorant statement to someone interested in the golden dawn that you do not "trust" regardie and cannot reccocmended him because he was only crowleys secretarie who was only a member for a few years. It's laughable. Regardie is the ONLY golden dawn author you can fully trust. Personally trained by an original member and a later member of an off shoot closest to the original and had all the papers. Please if you don't know what you're taking about maybe better not to confuse someone new.

Yogizero wrote:
I realize this is an old post but I just had to comment. I'm really not sure how you could voice an opinion on something and be so completely wrong about it. Besides the fact as you stated Israel Regardie was personally trained by an original Golden Dawn member Crowley (and Crowley was not "only" trained by Mathers [the LEADER] but Benett and George Cecil Jones for YEARS after] but Israel Regardie was in the Stella Matutina.

George Cecil Jones is a good point. I'll have to give you that.

Do you not know Israel Regardie wrote "the Golden Dawn" and "Complete Golden Dawn"?

Yes.

Do you not realize NONE of the current Golden Dawn groups would exist without Regardie?

I don't think that's absolutely true. And even if it was. It isn't a very good point to make. None of the modern golden dawn organization has had any impact on the modern magic community since the the original organization went down.

Do you not realize EVERY Golden Dawn author has learned from either Regardie or someone ripping him off?

No, because there were authors who were actual members who wrote about it before regardie.

Do you realize the current two most knowledgable and important Golden Dawn members chic and tabitha Cicero were personally trained by Regardie?

And I don't trust them at all. I think they are complete and utter frauds.

I have never seen such a bizarre and ignorant statement to someone interested in the golden dawn that you do not "trust" regardie and cannot reccocmended him because he was only crowleys secretarie who was only a member for a few years. It's laughable. Regardie is the ONLY golden dawn author you can fully trust. Personally trained by an original member and a later member of an off shoot closest to the original and had all the papers. Please if you don't know what you're taking about maybe better not to confuse someone new.

I simply don't agree.

You have no idea what you're talking about. None of the original Golden Dawn members ever revealed the system before Regardie. Do you realize only a handful of the original members were in the inner order? Do you realize that Crowley was the last one to be admitted and the group split immediately after? From the original group besides Crowley only Mathers really published occult books and not on the Golden Dawn. ALL we know about the Golden Dawn is due to Regardie. No one from the original group has ever published Golden Dawn secrets. Everything you can learn from it is due to Regardie. You are very confused and giving bad advice due to some misinformation or petty grudge you have.

The Golden Dawn was extinct besides Whare Ra which eventually closed too before Regardie releases the Stella Matutina papers which from the original golden dawn as was the other off shoots right after the rift. You saying he "had no knowledge of the GD because Crowley was only in it a few years then he was his secretary and got kicked out" is just WRONG. Most of regardies Golden Dawn knowledge was NOT taught by Crowley do was not "tainted" he taught him magick not the GD System. That came years later.

Yogizero wrote:You have no idea what you're talking about. None of the original Golden Dawn members ever revealed the system before Regardie.

That is partly right. None of them released a golden dawn book like Regardie did. But they did write books about magic. Several ones, by several members.

Do you realize only a handful of the original members were in the inner order?

23 people.

Do you realize that Crowley was the last one to be admitted and the group split immediately after? From the original group besides Crowley only Mathers really published occult books and not on the Golden Dawn.

None of what you just said is correct.

ALL we know about the Golden Dawn is due to Regardie. No one from the original group has ever published Golden Dawn secrets. Everything you can learn from it is due to Regardie.

That is simply not true. Both westcott and waite published books. Both of them under different names as well. Both paul foster case and dion fortune was members of the later of branches. Frederick Leigh Gardner, Robert Felkin, Florence Farr, Edmund William Berridge, Charles Bennett, Evelyn Underhill. All published books about magic. And I'm sure I'm forgetting someone.

The Golden Dawn was extinct besides Whare Ra which eventually closed too before Regardie releases the Stella Matutina papers which from the original golden dawn as was the other off shoots right after the rift.

It's a lot more complex then that.

"In 1901, W. B. Yeats privately published a pamphlet titled Is the Order of R. R. & A. C. to Remain a Magical Order?[22] After the Isis-Urania temple claimed its independence, there were even more disputes, leading to Yeats resigning.[23] A committee of three was to temporarily govern, which included P.W. Bullock, M.W. Blackden and J. W. Brodie-Innes. After a short time, Bullock resigned, and Dr. Robert Felkin took his place.[24] (John William Brodie-Innes also published books)

In 1903, A. E. Waite and Blackden joined forces to retain the name Isis-Urania, while Felkin and other London members formed the Stella Matutina. Yeats remained in the Stella Matutina until 1921, while Brodie-Innes continued his Amen-Ra membership in Edinburgh.[25]"

Reconstruction

Once Mathers realised that reconciliation was impossible, he made efforts to reestablish himself in London. The Bradford and Weston-super-Mare temples remained loyal to him, but their numbers were few.[26] He then appointed Edward Berridge as his representative.[27] According to Francis King, historical evidence shows that there were "twenty three members of a flourishing Second Order under Berridge-Mathers in 1913."[27]

J.W. Brodie-Innes continued leading the Amen-Ra temple, deciding that the revolt was unjustified. By 1908, Mathers and Brodie-Innes were in complete accord.[28] According to sources that differ regarding the actual date, sometime between 1901 and 1913 Mathers renamed the branch of the Golden Dawn remaining loyal to his leadership to Alpha et Omega.[29][30][31][32] Brodie-Innes assumed command of the English and Scottish temples, while Mathers concentrated on building up his Ahathoor temple and extending his American connections.[30] According to occultist Israel Regardie, the Golden Dawn had spread to the United States of America before 1900 and a Thoth-Hermes temple had been founded in Chicago.[28][30] By the beginning of the First World War in 1914, Mathers had established two to three American temples.

Most temples of the Alpha et Omega and Stella Matutina closed or went into abeyance by the end of the 1930s, with the exceptions of two Stella Matutina temples: Hermes Temple in Bristol, which operated sporadically until 1970, and the Smaragdum Thallasses Temple (commonly referred to as Whare Ra) in Havelock North, New Zealand, which operated regularly until its closure in 1978.[33][34]

You saying he "had no knowledge of the GD because Crowley was only in it a few years then he was his secretary and got kicked out" is just WRONG. Most of regardies Golden Dawn knowledge was NOT taught by Crowley do was not "tainted" he taught him magick not the GD System. That came years later.

This is my analysis. I feel that Regardies system is tainted by crowleys ideas and don't correspond to the original GD as much as some would think it does.

You are WRONG about ALL of this. None of those people published GOLDEN DAWN RITUALS OR TEACHINGS. NONE of them. ALL of it came from Regaride. Just admit you are wrong and stop confusing people. Specifically the statement that Regardie did not know GD teachings and they were tainted by Crowley. You are saying his book which is literally original GD papers was influenced by crowley? What the hell are you talking about? Link me to where Wescott or ANYONE released golden dawn papers.

You named AE Waite.. who hated the Golden Dawn and created his rosy cross society that did away with magick and was just christiam mysticism. Hm.. kind of not golden dawn. Paul Foster Case who hated enochian magick and completely eliminated it when he created BOTA. Hm.. seems like the inner order was pure enochian.

ALSO you're naming people like Felkin who uh.. WAS IN STELLA MATUTINA. Along with others. Which Regardie RELEASED those papers. So WERE they golden dawn or WERE they not? You're contradicting yourself because you have no idea.

I never said GOLDEN DAWN MEMBERS never WROTE ABOUT ESOTERICISM. But nobody EVER revealed the rituals and the teachings and the papers (ie z1-3) EXCEPT Regardie. You are wrong. The only pure golden dawn teachings are from Regardie. End of story.