Original post: martin
DarkPriest
06-28-2004, 04:21 AM
I have the Aleister Crowley Thoth Tarot Deck. I do the card formation that it says in the instruction manual but I want to do another type of formation. Can anyone tell me or give me pictures and instructions on any other formations?
I also get incomprehensible readings but some of the results are ok but sometimes it doesn't really give me what I am asking for. Can anyone tell me what is wrong?
Tarot Formation
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Tarot Formation
Original post: martin
Qryztufre
06-28-2004, 05:34 AM
Which one is in the Toth deck?
Does that spread have a name?
If it's different the one two I have I'll gladdly post mine. (Assuming the various decks are comparable)
Q
Qryztufre
06-28-2004, 05:34 AM
Which one is in the Toth deck?
Does that spread have a name?
If it's different the one two I have I'll gladdly post mine. (Assuming the various decks are comparable)
Q
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Tarot Formation
Original post: martin
DarkPriest
06-28-2004, 05:40 AM
Well I don't really know but let me check.
DarkPriest
06-28-2004, 05:40 AM
Well I don't really know but let me check.
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Tarot Formation
Original post: martin
DarkPriest
06-28-2004, 05:53 AM
It's a fifteen card layout. Here is an example:
OOO OOO
13 9 5 4 8 12
OOO
2 1 3
OOO OOO
14 10 6 7 11 15
the circles are the cards and the numbers represent the way the cards are place.
DarkPriest
06-28-2004, 05:53 AM
It's a fifteen card layout. Here is an example:
OOO OOO
13 9 5 4 8 12
OOO
2 1 3
OOO OOO
14 10 6 7 11 15
the circles are the cards and the numbers represent the way the cards are place.
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Tarot Formation
Original post: martin
Qryztufre
06-28-2004, 06:13 AM
Hmmm....you'll likely need someone 'better' at this then I am to actually answer...but I'll try to get my layout posted later (maybe this afternoon...I gotta get to work in a few).
I'll post it in ASCII, and I'll try to get your's converted as well.
Here is what I have so far...it's at the top...and at this point does NOT explain what the cards mean. I'll try to get that converted/added later (like I said).
As for the meaning of the cards...it's for the Rider-Waite Deck...and filling those in will be a bit longer then 'later today'.
http://www.geocities.com/neverclan/OF/tarot_ascii.htm (http://www.geocities.com/neverclan/OF/tarot_ascii.htm)
Q
EDIT: If anyone has a link to the MEANINGS of the cards that I can cut & paste into that page it'll save me DAYS of typing...could you PM the link to me, or get it up in the resource stickies...
Qryztufre
06-28-2004, 06:13 AM
Hmmm....you'll likely need someone 'better' at this then I am to actually answer...but I'll try to get my layout posted later (maybe this afternoon...I gotta get to work in a few).
I'll post it in ASCII, and I'll try to get your's converted as well.
Here is what I have so far...it's at the top...and at this point does NOT explain what the cards mean. I'll try to get that converted/added later (like I said).
As for the meaning of the cards...it's for the Rider-Waite Deck...and filling those in will be a bit longer then 'later today'.
http://www.geocities.com/neverclan/OF/tarot_ascii.htm (http://www.geocities.com/neverclan/OF/tarot_ascii.htm)
Q
EDIT: If anyone has a link to the MEANINGS of the cards that I can cut & paste into that page it'll save me DAYS of typing...could you PM the link to me, or get it up in the resource stickies...
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Tarot Formation
Original post: martin
DarkPriest
06-28-2004, 06:17 AM
Wow that's a great start, thanks!
DarkPriest
06-28-2004, 06:17 AM
Wow that's a great start, thanks!
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Tarot Formation
Original post: martin
EccentricSage
06-28-2004, 07:09 AM
My favorite spread is the celtic cross spread...I used to get realy good results with that spread...but then my cards got messed up at school and only recently did I get a new deck, so I don't remember the order of the spread and what the positions stood for.
Qryztufre, the spread you posted actualy looks a little diferent from the Celtic cross my old deck instructed on...I think I had a slightly simplified version...a few less cards...this one looks promising, though...I'll have to give it a shot!
As for meanings of the cards, here's a website that has them listed. I'm not shure what this person's meanings are based on...but I think they look pretty good so far. (haven't read them all on that site) From what I've heard there are some traditions concerning the meanings of the cards...some decs adhere to one tradition more than another, and others diverge from tradition severely enough to even add new cards. I'm still a novice when it comes to the history behind Tarot.
As for your readings not always making sence....
First off, start recording the results of your readings in a journal...that way you can look back and see if they make more sence later. I didn't take tarot completely seriously at first, and since the cards would reveal hiden things sometimes I wouldn't realise what it meant at first. Then things would happen, and I'd be like 'oh shit, so that's what it meant...I should have taken the advice'. And I do tend to like looking at the cards as a source of advice rather than 'this is what the future holds, if you don't like it, sucks to be you'.
My theory is that the cards, when doing celtic cross at least, will reveal one possible path and the outcome of taking that path. If the outcome is bad, then you can learn from the cards what actions and atitudes not to take so that you can change the outcome. If the outcome is good, then take the cards as advice on how to acheive that good end.
When I do my readings, I sit there shufling the cards, turning some upside down at random every now and then....I concentrate on what the subject of my reading it to be...asking open ended questions about the subject..."Why is so-and-so acting strange lately? Is she hiding something from me? Why? What can I do about it?" As I think intently about it, I just try to 'feal' weather the cards are right...following my intuition...if I 'feal' a tingling sensation when a touch a couple of cards, I then move them to eather the front or back of the deck...wichever feals right...soon I've moved quite a few cards to the front, so I touch those...fealing weather one should be in front of another, or turned upside down...When I feal that the cards are in a good order...that they will tell me what I nead to hear, I stop shufling and lay them out. Sometimes shufling them this way takes a couple minutes...on rare ocasions it can take almost half an hour to 'feal right'.
Basicly, I don't feal that the order of the cards are to be leaft to chance. I don't feal that some greater power is seeing to it that they are somehow in the right order. I feal that tarot focuses one's intuition, and that you must use that intuition to put the cards in order yourself. It is not a game of chance. Others may feal diferently, but if you like my theories, give it a few tries, write down the results, and see if they reveal anything to you.
Here's the site with the card meanings:
http://www.madram.bravehost.com/tarot/major.htm
EccentricSage
06-28-2004, 07:09 AM
My favorite spread is the celtic cross spread...I used to get realy good results with that spread...but then my cards got messed up at school and only recently did I get a new deck, so I don't remember the order of the spread and what the positions stood for.
Qryztufre, the spread you posted actualy looks a little diferent from the Celtic cross my old deck instructed on...I think I had a slightly simplified version...a few less cards...this one looks promising, though...I'll have to give it a shot!
As for meanings of the cards, here's a website that has them listed. I'm not shure what this person's meanings are based on...but I think they look pretty good so far. (haven't read them all on that site) From what I've heard there are some traditions concerning the meanings of the cards...some decs adhere to one tradition more than another, and others diverge from tradition severely enough to even add new cards. I'm still a novice when it comes to the history behind Tarot.
As for your readings not always making sence....
First off, start recording the results of your readings in a journal...that way you can look back and see if they make more sence later. I didn't take tarot completely seriously at first, and since the cards would reveal hiden things sometimes I wouldn't realise what it meant at first. Then things would happen, and I'd be like 'oh shit, so that's what it meant...I should have taken the advice'. And I do tend to like looking at the cards as a source of advice rather than 'this is what the future holds, if you don't like it, sucks to be you'.
My theory is that the cards, when doing celtic cross at least, will reveal one possible path and the outcome of taking that path. If the outcome is bad, then you can learn from the cards what actions and atitudes not to take so that you can change the outcome. If the outcome is good, then take the cards as advice on how to acheive that good end.
When I do my readings, I sit there shufling the cards, turning some upside down at random every now and then....I concentrate on what the subject of my reading it to be...asking open ended questions about the subject..."Why is so-and-so acting strange lately? Is she hiding something from me? Why? What can I do about it?" As I think intently about it, I just try to 'feal' weather the cards are right...following my intuition...if I 'feal' a tingling sensation when a touch a couple of cards, I then move them to eather the front or back of the deck...wichever feals right...soon I've moved quite a few cards to the front, so I touch those...fealing weather one should be in front of another, or turned upside down...When I feal that the cards are in a good order...that they will tell me what I nead to hear, I stop shufling and lay them out. Sometimes shufling them this way takes a couple minutes...on rare ocasions it can take almost half an hour to 'feal right'.
Basicly, I don't feal that the order of the cards are to be leaft to chance. I don't feal that some greater power is seeing to it that they are somehow in the right order. I feal that tarot focuses one's intuition, and that you must use that intuition to put the cards in order yourself. It is not a game of chance. Others may feal diferently, but if you like my theories, give it a few tries, write down the results, and see if they reveal anything to you.
Here's the site with the card meanings:
http://www.madram.bravehost.com/tarot/major.htm
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Tarot Formation
Original post: martin
Caradoc
06-28-2004, 09:03 AM
I really wish you coulda remembered the card spread.I have little to do for a short time so I'll post the Celtic Cross spread for you. This is just taken from Waite's The Key to the Tarot :
Select a Significator of the person or thing about whom or which the inquiry is made. Place the Significator in the middle.
FIRST CARD - Cover the significator, saying, "This card covers him." This represents the significator's general environment at the time, the influence with which he is actuated all through.
SECOND - Put it horizontally across the FIRST, saying, "This card crosses him." This represents his obstacles.
THIRD - place above the head of the significator, saying, "This card crowns him." It represents (a) the best he can arrive at, (b) his ideal in the matter, (c) what he wants to make his own, (d) but it is not his own at present.
FOURTH - Place it beneath his feet, saying, "This is beneath him." It is that which is his own - that which he has to work with and and can use.
FIFTH* - Place it on the side that the significator is looking aways from, saying, "This card is behind him." It is the current from which he is passing away, and it may be the past of the matter.
SIXTH* - Place it on the side he is looking towards, saying, "This is before him." It is the current that is coming into action and will operate in the specific matter.
You now have cards placed in the form of a cross. The next four are turned up in succession and placed on your right hand underneath one another.**
SEVENTH - signifies himself, his attitude and relation to the matter.
EIGHTH - signifies his house, his environment in the affair; the influence, people and events about him.
NINTH - signifies his hopes and fears.
TENTH - represents what will come.
Well that is the Celtic Cross as Waite describes it, it's not precisely quoted but all the relevant info is there. I would like to make a couple of points though.
*The FIFTH and SIXTH cards I always place left and right respectively. This is partly because I don't always use a significator anyway, partly because I read the cards from left to right as well as in the order drawn. I'll explain that a little more clearly in the next note.
**The four cards in the pillar I always place from bottom to top. The first of these four is placed level with the FOURTH card, the second level with the central row, the third level with the 'crowning' card and the last above that and higher than all the rest. I like the symbolism of it being higher as it represents the final outcome, something further off than everything else mentioned and something to be reached for (in part).
The way the cards now fall seems to fit much better to my mind. If you now read along from left to right on all the rows you see how they match up: -
Along the bottom row are the FOURTH card which represents "that which he has to work with and and can use," and the SEVENTH card representing "his attitude and relation to the matter." This second is clearly something he already has, his attitude and relation to the matter are already his and constitute, in part, 'that which he has to work with'.
Above this, across the central row, we can read from left to right the past, present and future of the significator in cards 5, 1+2, and 6 respectively. The card in the pillar (the EIGHTH card) relates to all three of these cards very directly (in my thinking anyway).
Above this again we have the THIRD card representing "(a) the best he can arrive at, (b) his ideal in the matter, (c) what he wants to make his own, (d) but it is not his own at present," and the NINTH card representing his "hopes and fears." These two cards are clearly linked also.
I just find it easier to relate all the information if I lay the cards out so I can see the relationships in a single glance.
The Celtic Cross is probably the most commonly used spread as it seems to be included in every 'beginner's' tarot book. This does not diminish it's usefulness in any way, I get more information from using this spread than I ever dare to hope for and it is always a surprise to me. It's very simple and elegant and yet more complex than it appears
Caradoc
06-28-2004, 09:03 AM
I really wish you coulda remembered the card spread.I have little to do for a short time so I'll post the Celtic Cross spread for you. This is just taken from Waite's The Key to the Tarot :
Select a Significator of the person or thing about whom or which the inquiry is made. Place the Significator in the middle.
FIRST CARD - Cover the significator, saying, "This card covers him." This represents the significator's general environment at the time, the influence with which he is actuated all through.
SECOND - Put it horizontally across the FIRST, saying, "This card crosses him." This represents his obstacles.
THIRD - place above the head of the significator, saying, "This card crowns him." It represents (a) the best he can arrive at, (b) his ideal in the matter, (c) what he wants to make his own, (d) but it is not his own at present.
FOURTH - Place it beneath his feet, saying, "This is beneath him." It is that which is his own - that which he has to work with and and can use.
FIFTH* - Place it on the side that the significator is looking aways from, saying, "This card is behind him." It is the current from which he is passing away, and it may be the past of the matter.
SIXTH* - Place it on the side he is looking towards, saying, "This is before him." It is the current that is coming into action and will operate in the specific matter.
You now have cards placed in the form of a cross. The next four are turned up in succession and placed on your right hand underneath one another.**
SEVENTH - signifies himself, his attitude and relation to the matter.
EIGHTH - signifies his house, his environment in the affair; the influence, people and events about him.
NINTH - signifies his hopes and fears.
TENTH - represents what will come.
Well that is the Celtic Cross as Waite describes it, it's not precisely quoted but all the relevant info is there. I would like to make a couple of points though.
*The FIFTH and SIXTH cards I always place left and right respectively. This is partly because I don't always use a significator anyway, partly because I read the cards from left to right as well as in the order drawn. I'll explain that a little more clearly in the next note.
**The four cards in the pillar I always place from bottom to top. The first of these four is placed level with the FOURTH card, the second level with the central row, the third level with the 'crowning' card and the last above that and higher than all the rest. I like the symbolism of it being higher as it represents the final outcome, something further off than everything else mentioned and something to be reached for (in part).
The way the cards now fall seems to fit much better to my mind. If you now read along from left to right on all the rows you see how they match up: -
Along the bottom row are the FOURTH card which represents "that which he has to work with and and can use," and the SEVENTH card representing "his attitude and relation to the matter." This second is clearly something he already has, his attitude and relation to the matter are already his and constitute, in part, 'that which he has to work with'.
Above this, across the central row, we can read from left to right the past, present and future of the significator in cards 5, 1+2, and 6 respectively. The card in the pillar (the EIGHTH card) relates to all three of these cards very directly (in my thinking anyway).
Above this again we have the THIRD card representing "(a) the best he can arrive at, (b) his ideal in the matter, (c) what he wants to make his own, (d) but it is not his own at present," and the NINTH card representing his "hopes and fears." These two cards are clearly linked also.
I just find it easier to relate all the information if I lay the cards out so I can see the relationships in a single glance.
The Celtic Cross is probably the most commonly used spread as it seems to be included in every 'beginner's' tarot book. This does not diminish it's usefulness in any way, I get more information from using this spread than I ever dare to hope for and it is always a surprise to me. It's very simple and elegant and yet more complex than it appears
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Original post: martin
DarkPriest
06-28-2004, 09:11 AM
Any pics of the spread?
DarkPriest
06-28-2004, 09:11 AM
Any pics of the spread?
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Tarot Formation
Original post: martin
Qryztufre
06-28-2004, 06:46 PM
Hows this...
The Celtic Cross (http://www.jasnetworks.net/zotiel/OF/tarot/celtic_cross.htm)
I'm still working on card meanings...so those will have to wait.
It's less then 80 characters, so it should be fully printable
If you can get me the layout of different spreads I'll gladdly convert those to ASCII as well.
(note: I'll need what is said as the cards are laid...like that I have in the link)
Q
Qryztufre
06-28-2004, 06:46 PM
Hows this...
The Celtic Cross (http://www.jasnetworks.net/zotiel/OF/tarot/celtic_cross.htm)
I'm still working on card meanings...so those will have to wait.
It's less then 80 characters, so it should be fully printable
If you can get me the layout of different spreads I'll gladdly convert those to ASCII as well.(note: I'll need what is said as the cards are laid...like that I have in the link)
Q