The Parting of the Waters

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The Parting of the Waters

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Original post: Mmothra

Origianally posted by I AM:

Many are familiar with the Parting of the Waters that Moses did during the Exodus. An impressive story. However, many do NOT know that an Egyptian Magickian performed the same feat hundreds of years before the time of Moses.

The Bible attributes Moses' powers to God working through him. However, during the same Exodus Moses at one time becomes mad and strikes his staff against a rock and water issues forth. Because he did not do this in God's name he supposedly was punished by not being allowed to go into Canaan.

So, the question is as follows. Did Moses, while growing up in the Royal Household of Egypt learn his magick from Egyptian Magickians?




Quote:
"....Later on in the history of Moses' dealings with the Egyptians we find the account of how "he stretched out his hand over the sea, and the Lord caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided. And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground; and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left." When the Egyptians had come between the two walls of water, by God's command Moses stretched forth his hand over the sea, "and the sea returned to his strength," and the "waters returned, and covered the chariots, and the horsemen, and all the host of Pharaoh that came into the sea after them."

But the command of the waters of the sea or river was claimed by the Egyptian magician long before the time of Moses, as we may see from an interesting story preserved in the Westcar Papyrus. This document was written in the early part of the XVIIIth dynasty, about B.C. 1550 but it is clear that the stories in it date from the Early Empire, and are in fact as old as the Great Pyramid. The story is related to king Khufu (Cheops) by Baiu-f-Râ as an event which happened in the time of the king's father, and as a proof of the wonderful powers of magic which were possessed by the priest called Tchatcha-em-ânkh.

It seems that on a certain day king Seneferu was in low spirits, and he applied to the nobles of his royal household expecting that they would find some means whereby his heart might be made glad; but as they could do nothing to cheer up the king, he gave orders that the priest and writer of books, Tchatcha-em-ânkh, should be brought into his presence immediately, and in accordance with the royal command he was at once brought. When he had arrived, Seneferu said to him, "My brother, I turned to the nobles of my royal household seeking for some means whereby I might cheer my heart, but they have found nothing for me." Then the priest made answer and advised the king to betake himself to the lake near the palace, and to go for a sail on it in a boat which had been comfortably furnished with things from the royal house. "For," said he, "the heart of thy Majesty will rejoice and be glad when thou sailest about hither and thither, and dost see the beautiful thickets which are on the lake, and when thou seest the pretty banks thereof and the beautiful fields then shall thy heart feel happiness." He next begged that the king would allow him to organize the journey, and asked his permission to let him bring twenty ebony paddles inlaid with gold, and also twenty young virgins having beautiful heads of hair and lovely forms and shapely limbs, and twenty nets wherein these virgins may array themselves instead of in their own ordinary garments. The virgins were to row and sing to his Majesty.

To these proposals the king assented, and when all was ready he took his place in the boat; while the young women were rowing him about hither and thither the king watched them, and his heart became released from care. Now as one of the young women was rowing, she entangled herself in some way in her hair, and one of her ornaments which was made of "new turquoise" fell into the water and sank; she ceased to row, and not herself only, but all the other maidens ceased to row also. When the king saw that the maidens had ceased from their work, he said to them, "Will ye not row?" and they replied, "Our leader has ceased to row." Then turning to the maiden who had dropped her ornament overboard, he asked her why she was not rowing, whereupon she told him what had happened. On this the king promised that he would get back the ornament for her.

Then the king commanded that Tchatcha-em-ânkh should appear before him at once, and as soon as the sage had been brought into his presence he said to him, "O Tchatcha-em-ânkh, my brother, I have done according to thy words, and the heart of my Majesty became glad when I saw how the maidens rowed. But now, an ornament which is made of new turquoise and belongeth to one of the maidens who row hath fallen into the water, and she hath in consequence become silent, and hath ceased to row, and hath disturbed the rowing of those in her company. I said to her, 'Why dost thou not row?' and she replied, 'An ornament [of mine] made of new turquoise hath fallen into the water.' Then I said to her, 'I will get it back for thee.'" Thereupon the priest and writer of books Tchatcha-em-ânkh spake certain words of power (hekau), and having thus caused one section of the water of the lake to go up upon the other, he found the ornament lying upon a pot-sherd, and he took it and gave it to the maiden. Now the water was twelve cubits deep, but when Tchatcha-em-ânkh had lifted up one section of the water on to the other, that portion became four and twenty cubits deep.

The magician again uttered certain words of power, and the water of the lake became as it had been before he had caused one portion of it to go up on to the other; and the king prepared a feast for all his royal household, and rewarded Tchatcha-em-ânkh with gifts of every kind. Such is a story of the power possessed by a magician in the time of king Khufu (Cheops), who reigned at the beginning of the IVth dynasty, about B.C. 3800. The copy of the story which we possess is older than the period when Moses lived, and thus there can be no possibility of our seeing in it a distorted version of the miracle of the waters of the sea standing like walls, one on the right hand and one on the left; on the other hand Moses' miracle may well have some connexion with that of Tchatcha-em-ânkh.
"


Offered for thought and comment.

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The Parting of the Waters

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Original post: Mmothra

Originally posted by Black Dragon:

I AM, that was an interesting read. From my little knowledge of ancient magic, I think that Moses may have used one of two spirits in order to part the seas. Where he got his knowledge, was probably from "God", as many figures of that time attributed what they knew to God, or at least that's how it's been Translated. The two spirits I know of are Primeumation and Anaphexeton, or it might be Anapheneton. I think it might be one of those two spirits, but I couldn't possibly be sure.
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The Parting of the Waters

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Original post: Mmothra

Originally posted by Panu Nahka:
As how I understand it is as follows:

To Moses, God represented reality. God had created it, so one who believed in him and carried him in his heart(i.e. understood reality on intuitive level), could call for his God(i.e. his understanding) and impose his will upon the reality. And so Moses called for God to part the waters.

To Tchatcha-em-ânkh the words of power were means to call upon his understanding and to concentrate his will upon the reality. To him the Egyptian pantheon propably represented the reality, and as he understood them(and thus, reality), such feat was possible for him.


And as an obvious answer to your question, no he didn't.

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The Parting of the Waters

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Original post: Mmothra

Originally posted by Kingu:
Just a thought, remember that Moses was raised in court and as royalty had access to the priests and their secrets, even if they were stolen secrets. Lore in a word. The staff to serpent trick was, and still is an old parlor trick using a toxin, (such as tobacco) under the tongue of the snake causing it to seize, when you smack it down on the floor, the impact shock brings it out of its torpur for a few seconds before it stiffens up again, the rest is showmanship. The priest would have had the right amounts and dosages as not to kill the snakes.
As for the Red Sea, (More accurate translation the Reed Sea) try this on for size.
http://www.adam.com.au/bstett/BRedSeaCrossing.htm

Truly, what is more likely?

Regards,

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The Parting of the Waters

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Original post: Mmothra

Originally posted by Albino Crow:
Very interesting topic, and an interesting link Kingu. I'm all for the possibility of the 'parting of the Red sea' as a meteorological phenomenon, but there still remains why the author chose to describe Moses speaking certain words of power. It could very well be that in his awe-struck state he exaggerated the details of the story, or merely succumbed to a sort of bewilderment, but all things considered, in my opinion the entire account of the Bible is left to conjecture, but we'll stick with the story as a theoretical event.

Those words of power, so-called, are long thought to be the 72 names of God uncovered in various segments of The Torah (Old Testament). Now, to play on the aesthetic for a moment, ancient man and modern man are two vastly different beings, though similar in obvious ways. Ancient man isn't bound or 'blinded by science', or consensus reality's standards of the possible and impossible. In ancient times, God was supreme, and miracles were an act of his Will. So let's think for a moment that miracles are a static commodity, and that for them to happen one only needs to believe with 100% conviction that the 'sacred and secret knowledge' they possess will grant them the ability to make miracles.

Now, what confuses me about this story, is if the 72 names of God are thought to be the words of power Moses used, then what does that say of the words Tchatcha-em-ânkh used?

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The Parting of the Waters

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Original post: Mmothra

Originally posted by I AM:
What if Tchatcha-em-ânkh was an actual Magickian in the tradition of Egyptian Magick? Wouln't that be an equally likely explanation? Do we assume that only in the Western Tradition that Magicians existed? Do we asume that Moses learned nothing of Egyptian Magic while living in the Royal Household?

Why are we quick to discount the Magic of the Egyptians? Is it because the Biblical reference in the Exodus makes them look like fakes? It could be that the Egyptian Magicians of Moses's time had lost much of the Magical knowledge of previous Magicians in the Egyptian tradition. It would not be the first time that Magical knowledge had become watered down over the ages. It could also be that the Biblical account is biased by the writer of the account.

Additionally, do we assume that the magic of Tchatcha-em-ânkh was also attributed to a cosmic or a meteorological phenomenon (Great Link Kingu!)? While I am open minded, remember that these two events occurred at least hundreds of years apart.

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The Parting of the Waters

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Original post: Mmothra

Originally posted by Albino Crow:
Very true. I whole-heartedly share your queries. What puzzles me most, is that if Moses did in fact possess Egyptian Magick, thus allowing him to part the Red Sea, and the perpetuating myth that those words he muttered were God names, then that'd be quite an ironic turn of events, considering the God names are Hebrew. Ha ha ha.

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Original post: Mmothra

Originally posted by She Demon Wolf:
Interesting.

From a more scientific pov, some scientists tried to set a date to the event, and found an event which seemed to coincide.

At around that time, a massive earthquake took Egypt, and as Moses and crew approached the sea, the seismic activity had broken up the ground so that the water form the sea (actually believed to be a river or an estuary) was sucked underground very suddenly, leaving a 'path' for moses and crew to walk along. By the time they had gotten to the other side, the water had filled the new 'hole' caused by the quake, and was flowing normally across the land again.

Also, some say 'red' is a misspelling. What Moses actually crossed, was a 'reed sea', which was nothing more than a boggy marsh. Relics and bones have been found in a marsh possibly corresponding to the place Moses crossed.

There was a program not so long ago on BBC about this, it was entitled 'Moses: man or magician' or something similar. Keep an eye out for it as it may get shown again.

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Original post: Mmothra

Originally posted by I AM:
Would you use the same explanation for what the Egyptian Magickian did? Just curious. That seemed to be magick performed on request for a mundane reason.

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Original post: Mmothra

Originally posted by Caradoc:
The story of Egyptian Magicians parting the Nile or lifting out sections of the Nile was a fairly common one. I have never heard of a Magician named T'chtah em Ankh performing this though. Can I ask where you read this? T'chtah em Ankh is usually an epithet attached to a Pharoah and translates as Forever in Life.


The idea that Moses learned his magic (or religion) in Egypt is, I think, important. I don't think there was ever a question about this "way back when." It's important to Jewish mythology/religion. If you look at the story of the Qabalah you find it being passed to Adam and on down through his family, until the flood, when it is given again to man and carried through Egypt to emerge again with Moses and then on through the Jews. Look also at the Jewish people who wandered the deserts, were taken into Egypt and eventually re-emerged into the world and finally established their homeland. Look also at Jesus who was born in a lowly place and was taken into Egypt as a small child and eventually re-emerged to return to the Jewish lands with new wisdom for the people. Again and again we see the same story, something existing in low circumstances, being nurtured in Egypt, finally achieving its "proper place."

In the Ancient world it was common for any civilisation to claim some influence from Egypt, the Ancient Greeks, for example, claimed to have learned their building skills from Egyptians, because Egypt was seen as the greatest civilisation. I know the Old Testament is very anti-Egyptian yet it seems they go to great lengths to attach their own destiny to that of Egypt at any opportunity, even identifying their own great religious characters with the Magicians of Egypt.

There are many theories regarding the reality of the Moses myth (my particular favourites are the one with the Jews as the Hyksos and the one with the Jews as the followers of Akhenaten) and so the story of the Exodus, along with the parting of the sea, may be entirely symbolic anyway. The story of Moses birth, abandonment and adoption into the royal court is almost a word for word copy of the story of Sauron(?), the first Sumerian king, and has echoes of Egyptian myth also. Perhaps his entire story is pure myth.

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Original post: Mmothra

Originally posted by I AM:
Hey Caradoc!

The Book is Egyptian Magick by E.A. Wallis Budge Chapter One.

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Original post: Mmothra

Originally posted by Caradoc:
Well now I'm embarrassed ops:


I have that book in front of me right now and you're absolutely correct. I must have heard of him before then, I've certainly read the book. Just colour me stupid and forget I said anything



Why doesn't the correct 'embarrassed' smiley come up, even when I choose it from the drop down list?

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Original post: Mmothra

Originally posted by I AM:
Nothing to be embarassed about. While some, like the British Museum, have questioned Budge's translation work, he still remains one of the prolific translator's of his time. And, for his time, he probably was as accurate as possible.

You may be absolutely correct in your earlier comments about what the name of the Magickian means. And your interpretation is as valid as anyone's.

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Original post: Mmothra

Originally posted by Caradoc:
The translation of the name is accurate, it's the first set of heiroglyphs I learned to read as it appears on the vast majority of inscriptions. I used to drive my friends nuts every time some documentary programme scanned across a line of heiroglyphs by shouting out, "T'chtah em Ankh! Forever in Life!!!" I'm quite a sad man you know

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Original post: Mmothra

Originally posted by She Demon Wolf:
Who knows what it was. Magick always manifests in strange ways, so the earthquake may be related.

Also the quake may explain the 'plagues'. Animals get tetchy before quakes strike (even days before). This could have stirred up the transmition of animal and human diseases that came with the animal's parassites. The 'blood' in the river could have been shifted sediment that was disturbed from an earlier quake in a different region.

All speculation of course. And annoying
.

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Original post: Mmothra

Originally postred by I AM:
Immanuel Velikovsky in "Worlds in Collision" also provides an alternate cause for the Exodus Plagues. His is a cosmic one. It is a thick book and in SMALL print. However it is a provacative read.

Whether or not the Planet Venus actually sprang from the Planet Jupiter or not, the theory that Venus was once a comet is interesting. His predictions about Venus, during a time that Science thought Venus was a sister planet to Earth, were scientific heresy. However, many of his predictions about the planet have so far proven accurate. His collection of myths from around the world to support his theory are fascinating.

Here is a website with some of his stuff.

The Immanuel Velikovsky Archive
http://www.varchive.org/

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Original post: Mmothra

Originally posted by Astral Alien:
While meteorological influences can explain the parting of the seas, there is no proper explanation about how it was re-filled.

Exodus 14:26 says : Then the Lord said to moses, "Stretch out your hands over the sea so that the waters may flow back over the Egyptians and their chariots and horsemen.".

It then describes how the egyptians are drowned. How could there be such a close coincidence!? Take note that none of the Israelites are drowned, only the Egyptians, maybe you could really call it coincidence in relation to some natural influences, however, to me only two possibilities are present :

1) Moses was indeed instructed by God in some way to do this, and a miracle such as this is small enough for a God who created the world to do.

2) He used magic, some way.

Or if any one can point me to any explanation of how the closing was not a coincidence but scientifically explainable. Gladly appreciated

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Original post: Mmothra

Originally posted by PaulS:
Could it be that it was a myth? A story to show that Yahweh protects His people?
Yes it could have been a magikal act or the act of a deity protecting those who worship Him. Could we duplicate it today? Only under similar circumstances could the need for it be enough to justify such an action. It has been my experience that deities can do things through those who honor them when it is imperative to their survival so long as it doesn't interfere with lessons that must be learned.

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Original post: Mmothra

Originally posted by GeNoCyDe:
It could have been annunaki too!lol
Sorry,I couldn't resist.
I was shown an interesting experiment with water once,a plastic rod,rubbed with a wool cloth can stir water without moveing it,you detect the stirring by a small amount of powder sprinkled on the surface,likewise it can pull a stream running from the tap to one side.ain't science neat!

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Original post: Mmothra

Originally posted by Dunhill:
Once again relying on the ever popular TLC, there was a special on the miracles of Moses. Their theory was the 'river to blood' was actually an algae bloom which thereby made all the frogs leave the water. Locust plague - nothing new other than perhaps the timing. In conclusion the main sticking point was the killing of the firstborn male child. That was a good one.

Now was all this some sort of grandiose magical/divine event, dumb luck on the timing or perhaps some independant events struck together by religious zealots or by some paranoid conspiracy buffs? Does the fact that there is an alternate sound non-arcane scientific explanation for an event (or coincidental string of events) make it an any less extraordinary event/story?

Astral Alien - Explanation could be a simple tidal effect for the refilling of the Sea of Reeds. As for the explanation that only Egyptians drowned while all the Jews got away (thinking of the scene in the Ten Commandments) that account would be up to much debate along the lines of assuming that 'all' the Jews left at once and wandered the desert for 40 years.

GeNoCyDe - I have seen similar tricks. Electric charge in the water as well as the rod/wool. It probably wouldn't work with distilled water. Loved Mr Wizard.

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