Original post: Captator
93
I have some thoughts concerning this subject that I would like to be answered.
This might at first look have nothing to do with the practise of ceremonial magick what so ever. But I feel it does, because I beleive that the work of the magician is all about knowing himself so therefor i'm going to post this here.
I also yearn to all those who have a need for posting not to post if you do not have any experience of the kind that I am soon going to put forward. Does everybody have an experience of it? Well speaking from my own experience I would say no, because of my own experience shows me how truly good I am at hidding things from myself.
Often one reads that one is to know oneself, but never is anything said about the fact what to do when one really gets to know oneself. What to do with the information that one deep inside really is a selfdelluding asshole who have so much negative shit that truly is very scary to know about, the worst part is that when one has started to smell little of it, one gets very frighten by the thought "what might there be else that I am hidding from myself"?
Are the personal things that har hidden inside negative in a objective manner? No imo, but since one is so good at hidding it and seem to do this sometimes in an extreme degree, one sure as hell feel a shame and disgusted by it, and therefor in an subjective manner they are negative to oneself, they are things that one don't want to have, but do have.
I can see all this and so far so good. I can see that they are there and there is not much I can do about them, I can't run from them anymore, there is no return, They can't be hidden from me again. But what the fuck am I to do about the fact that I don't really like them? I'm disgusted by pervert fantasies, I am disgusted by my way of trying to manipulate people, I am disgusted by the fact that I am lying to myself. I can't will myself out of this one, and I don't want too, because I would only try to hide facts about myself again. I know I need to accept them and live with them, but how can one do that? How can I accept that I am a false person inside? I feel I want them to go away, but then I know that is not the right way to go, because those same feelings put them where they are in the first place. So how am I going to accept them?
What did you do?
I might have an answer myself, but I think it's an interesting question and i'm interested in how other people did accept their insides, what did you do about your self?
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Know thyself
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Original post: Captator
Hmm maybe this isn't possible to answer, but I will let the post remain anyways.
Hmm maybe this isn't possible to answer, but I will let the post remain anyways.
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Original post: Ludi
I'm still working on this one myself. I have seen a lot of things in myself, but I have not been disgusted, or rather, have only been ashamed when I was not in my right mind. Otherwise, I have seen these things and said to myself "There is a thing that is interesting." Other people talk of "demons within" but I have not seen them, which makes me think maybe I need to do a lot more work. I've seen sick fantasies, urges to injure or kill others, urges to injure or kill myself, temptations to destroy everything I hold most dear. But I don't feel shame. Should I feel shame? I have in the past, but now I accept these things as part of myself. How did I end up accepting them? By finding, or rather, being shown my path, and seeing that part of my path is to be someone who contains these things, perhaps even expresses them to a greater or lesser degree. Really how this came to be was a mystical experience and as such, can't be expressed to another person very effectively (as you all know). I'll ponder on this and see if I can find some way of expressing how I came to accept this side of myself.
I'm still working on this one myself. I have seen a lot of things in myself, but I have not been disgusted, or rather, have only been ashamed when I was not in my right mind. Otherwise, I have seen these things and said to myself "There is a thing that is interesting." Other people talk of "demons within" but I have not seen them, which makes me think maybe I need to do a lot more work. I've seen sick fantasies, urges to injure or kill others, urges to injure or kill myself, temptations to destroy everything I hold most dear. But I don't feel shame. Should I feel shame? I have in the past, but now I accept these things as part of myself. How did I end up accepting them? By finding, or rather, being shown my path, and seeing that part of my path is to be someone who contains these things, perhaps even expresses them to a greater or lesser degree. Really how this came to be was a mystical experience and as such, can't be expressed to another person very effectively (as you all know). I'll ponder on this and see if I can find some way of expressing how I came to accept this side of myself.
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Original post: fatbastard
Okay, since i`m coming from an alchemical background I will speak
according to it. I sure hope that I will make myself clear.
You have indeed made a courageous step and I as well as the other
members here in the forums I hope, salute you to that.
It will not be a hyperbole to say that you indeed have discovered,
what alchemists refer to, the Stone.
However, do not rush to fall in despair. Do not let yourself criticize
your foundings. Seperate yourself from these things, analyze and attack them with the coldness and detachment that characterizes a sterile scientist. Do not let the substance of yourself who had discovered these things mix with their own substance. If you let this happen, you will be caught in their own game and vortex. Eventually,
you will be defeated and end up in a depressive state of stasis.
Seal them hermetically in a vessel first..
You have began the first alchemical stage, which is the nigredo.
Depression. Call forth the saturnine fires, call forth the mercurial
serpent. Turn them against theirselves. Use their own cunningness
and filth to attack themselves. Do not forget, this process ALWAYS hurts. Do not stand still and idly mourn. Do not try
to escape from the pain. Do not try to escape from death. Only try
not to forget to move on. Feed the fire. Do not idle. When this process ends, you will know it. When this ends the mercurial waters
will fall down and wash the dead matter. When this ends you will see, that the black,cunning filth, is now a bright white weapon.
Ready to be released upon your command. Purified from the initial
gross, remaining only the principle and penetrating force behind it.
When this ends, you will probably cry.
This is the albedo stage.
Move on, with your new understanding, utilize that weapon, release
it to attack itself again, release it to refine yourself again.
When that weapon will be forged in the battleground of application,
it will turn red. That is the rubedo.
Then you will realize, that you are in the same place you were initially.
But something is different. Throw yourself in the saturnine fire again
and repeat the circulation! Forever!
Okay, since i`m coming from an alchemical background I will speak
according to it. I sure hope that I will make myself clear.
You have indeed made a courageous step and I as well as the other
members here in the forums I hope, salute you to that.
It will not be a hyperbole to say that you indeed have discovered,
what alchemists refer to, the Stone.
However, do not rush to fall in despair. Do not let yourself criticize
your foundings. Seperate yourself from these things, analyze and attack them with the coldness and detachment that characterizes a sterile scientist. Do not let the substance of yourself who had discovered these things mix with their own substance. If you let this happen, you will be caught in their own game and vortex. Eventually,
you will be defeated and end up in a depressive state of stasis.
Seal them hermetically in a vessel first..
You have began the first alchemical stage, which is the nigredo.
Depression. Call forth the saturnine fires, call forth the mercurial
serpent. Turn them against theirselves. Use their own cunningness
and filth to attack themselves. Do not forget, this process ALWAYS hurts. Do not stand still and idly mourn. Do not try
to escape from the pain. Do not try to escape from death. Only try
not to forget to move on. Feed the fire. Do not idle. When this process ends, you will know it. When this ends the mercurial waters
will fall down and wash the dead matter. When this ends you will see, that the black,cunning filth, is now a bright white weapon.
Ready to be released upon your command. Purified from the initial
gross, remaining only the principle and penetrating force behind it.
When this ends, you will probably cry.
This is the albedo stage.
Move on, with your new understanding, utilize that weapon, release
it to attack itself again, release it to refine yourself again.
When that weapon will be forged in the battleground of application,
it will turn red. That is the rubedo.
Then you will realize, that you are in the same place you were initially.
But something is different. Throw yourself in the saturnine fire again
and repeat the circulation! Forever!
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Know thyself
Original post: Hoor-paar-Kraat
Never forget that Magick is something that we do to ourselves.
Never forget that Magick is something that we do to ourselves.
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Original post: AHA
[quote=""Jelaluddin Rumi""]"You say 'But I spend my energies on lofty enterprises. I study jurisprudence and philosophy and logic and astronomy and medicine and all the rest.' But consider why you do those things. They are all branches of yourself."
[/quote]
[quote=""AHA""](to a nail-biting magicker)"It's supposed to be KNOW thyself, not GNAW thyself!."
[/quote]
[quote=""Jelaluddin Rumi""]"You say 'But I spend my energies on lofty enterprises. I study jurisprudence and philosophy and logic and astronomy and medicine and all the rest.' But consider why you do those things. They are all branches of yourself."
[/quote]
[quote=""AHA""](to a nail-biting magicker)"It's supposed to be KNOW thyself, not GNAW thyself!."
[/quote]
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Original post: Captator
[QUOTE=Ludi]I'm still working on this one myself. I have seen a lot of things in myself, but I have not been disgusted, or rather, have only been ashamed when I was not in my right mind. Otherwise, I have seen these things and said to myself "There is a thing that is interesting." Other people talk of "demons within" but I have not seen them, which makes me think maybe I need to do a lot more work. I've seen sick fantasies, urges to injure or kill others, urges to injure or kill myself, temptations to destroy everything I hold most dear. But I don't feel shame. Should I feel shame? I have in the past, but now I accept these things as part of myself. How did I end up accepting them? By finding, or rather, being shown my path, and seeing that part of my path is to be someone who contains these things, perhaps even expresses them to a greater or lesser degree. Really how this came to be was a mystical experience and as such, can't be expressed to another person very effectively (as you all know). I'll ponder on this and see if I can find some way of expressing how I came to accept this side of myself.[/QUOTE]
93
I'm not really talking about fantasies, I know many of them and accept them as fantasies, I don't know if i'm delluding myself when I say so, but I accept them at a certain degree I think.
What I am talking about is finding out that you are an asshole who said to yourself, ohh my I love those guys, but in reality, you hate them, You despise everything about them,
And to discover this lie really hurts you, because you don't know what you are anymore, you have told yourself so much crap over the years that you have lost yourself and that is scary, who am I ?
This hurts since I flattered myself of being a nice peace loving understanding person, and to discover that I hate people and are disgusted by them, is a true shock.
Well there is much beneath my personality that has not yet been discovered and so much that needs to be dealt with, and one almost gets second thoughts for chosing this way. Before one started at least one fooled oneself that "I know who I am". But now I understand that I don't know shit! And I understand that I am not a loving person I am a disgusting asshole who has all his life tried to hide all his self hatred toward himself. (notice the last part, I will not change it, I started using "his" instead of "me", this shoes me that I still won't dare to face the truth, to feel all the self-hatred that I think I feel somewhere deep inside me. I Know this since I am still flatted by many of my own dellusional thoughts. They are so much nicer than the thoughts of being an idiot a moron etc And what feels nicer than self-flattery? nothing I have ever felt anyways..
Fatbastard thanks for your answer, I will meditate over it.
93 93/93
[QUOTE=Ludi]I'm still working on this one myself. I have seen a lot of things in myself, but I have not been disgusted, or rather, have only been ashamed when I was not in my right mind. Otherwise, I have seen these things and said to myself "There is a thing that is interesting." Other people talk of "demons within" but I have not seen them, which makes me think maybe I need to do a lot more work. I've seen sick fantasies, urges to injure or kill others, urges to injure or kill myself, temptations to destroy everything I hold most dear. But I don't feel shame. Should I feel shame? I have in the past, but now I accept these things as part of myself. How did I end up accepting them? By finding, or rather, being shown my path, and seeing that part of my path is to be someone who contains these things, perhaps even expresses them to a greater or lesser degree. Really how this came to be was a mystical experience and as such, can't be expressed to another person very effectively (as you all know). I'll ponder on this and see if I can find some way of expressing how I came to accept this side of myself.[/QUOTE]
93
I'm not really talking about fantasies, I know many of them and accept them as fantasies, I don't know if i'm delluding myself when I say so, but I accept them at a certain degree I think.
What I am talking about is finding out that you are an asshole who said to yourself, ohh my I love those guys, but in reality, you hate them, You despise everything about them,
And to discover this lie really hurts you, because you don't know what you are anymore, you have told yourself so much crap over the years that you have lost yourself and that is scary, who am I ?
This hurts since I flattered myself of being a nice peace loving understanding person, and to discover that I hate people and are disgusted by them, is a true shock.
Well there is much beneath my personality that has not yet been discovered and so much that needs to be dealt with, and one almost gets second thoughts for chosing this way. Before one started at least one fooled oneself that "I know who I am". But now I understand that I don't know shit! And I understand that I am not a loving person I am a disgusting asshole who has all his life tried to hide all his self hatred toward himself. (notice the last part, I will not change it, I started using "his" instead of "me", this shoes me that I still won't dare to face the truth, to feel all the self-hatred that I think I feel somewhere deep inside me. I Know this since I am still flatted by many of my own dellusional thoughts. They are so much nicer than the thoughts of being an idiot a moron etc And what feels nicer than self-flattery? nothing I have ever felt anyways..
Fatbastard thanks for your answer, I will meditate over it.
93 93/93
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Original post: Fraulein Meow
The darkest parts of your psyche are where your true power lies. It probably looks like a bit of a dungheap at this point, but you've really found a goldmine. It's just that the gold is currently in a raw, unpolished and unrefined form.
How long has it been since you've felt that hatred before this? The last time you hated passionately is the last time that part of your psyche was allowed to develop - so naturally, it's still in an immature and un-integrated state. It's been left to stagnate while the other parts of you (or at least the parts you've taken responsibility for) have been allowed to flourish and grow. The only way to allow those parts of your psyche (the newly discovered parts you've referred to above) to grow and transform into something useful is to take full responsibility for them.
Nuture them, listen to them and then make your own descisions about how to behave. Even if you had something so dark within you, something that strongly desired to murder people (for instance) - you don't have to do it, just listen to what it tells you and proceed to do what you truly think is best. As long as you remain impartial to them & don't slavishly follow their urgings, the darker parts of the psyche will then adjust themselves in such a way that they'll be more useful to you. This is part (though not all) of what is meant by the transformation of lead into gold.
I've known people who thought they were loving and tolerent in an enlightened way - and when they were able to really see themselves they found out that they were total pushovers with no power of their own. Love and understanding do not equal enlightenment, you need discrimination and aggression as well in order to ever get any real work done. Haven't you ever heard of zen teachers who wield sticks with which to beat their students? If they had only love and understanding they would be impotent as teachers.
Fatbastard has good advice - don't try to escape your pain. In fact, invite it in, let it flow through you with no resistance. This is the way to transform pain. Pain is nothing more than resistance. Why do you think 'enlightened masters' seem to walk around in a state of constant bliss? They have no resistance, everything flows through them naturally - and as a result there is no pain, merely the pleasure which is the constant flow of life and consciousness.
I don't mean to pontificate here - all of what I've written above has helped me tremendously in the past.
FM
The darkest parts of your psyche are where your true power lies. It probably looks like a bit of a dungheap at this point, but you've really found a goldmine. It's just that the gold is currently in a raw, unpolished and unrefined form.
How long has it been since you've felt that hatred before this? The last time you hated passionately is the last time that part of your psyche was allowed to develop - so naturally, it's still in an immature and un-integrated state. It's been left to stagnate while the other parts of you (or at least the parts you've taken responsibility for) have been allowed to flourish and grow. The only way to allow those parts of your psyche (the newly discovered parts you've referred to above) to grow and transform into something useful is to take full responsibility for them.
Nuture them, listen to them and then make your own descisions about how to behave. Even if you had something so dark within you, something that strongly desired to murder people (for instance) - you don't have to do it, just listen to what it tells you and proceed to do what you truly think is best. As long as you remain impartial to them & don't slavishly follow their urgings, the darker parts of the psyche will then adjust themselves in such a way that they'll be more useful to you. This is part (though not all) of what is meant by the transformation of lead into gold.
I've known people who thought they were loving and tolerent in an enlightened way - and when they were able to really see themselves they found out that they were total pushovers with no power of their own. Love and understanding do not equal enlightenment, you need discrimination and aggression as well in order to ever get any real work done. Haven't you ever heard of zen teachers who wield sticks with which to beat their students? If they had only love and understanding they would be impotent as teachers.
Fatbastard has good advice - don't try to escape your pain. In fact, invite it in, let it flow through you with no resistance. This is the way to transform pain. Pain is nothing more than resistance. Why do you think 'enlightened masters' seem to walk around in a state of constant bliss? They have no resistance, everything flows through them naturally - and as a result there is no pain, merely the pleasure which is the constant flow of life and consciousness.
I don't mean to pontificate here - all of what I've written above has helped me tremendously in the past.
FM
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Original post: Captator
93
Finaly I am begining to understand the true understanding of some matters, like the buddists say that you are supposed to observe your thoughts and not put any value to them.
This seem like a simple statement, and I thought I knew what it meant,
It is the same thing that is mentioned in Liber Al Vel Legis, there is a passages that goes something like: "Bind nothing for thereby comes hurt". I even understand this passage better now, I allways associated this with material things etc, but now I understand that this comes to feelings and thoughts as well! (btw are feelings and thoughts the same thing?). I have allways bound thoughts and feelings calling them a part of myself, but now it's time to let them flow unhindered and trying to learn that they are not my true self. But as I said earlier, I have a thing for flattering myself with certain thoughts about myself, so this will be tricky, this means being constantly aware of my own thoughts and feeling 24/7. This doesn't seem very easy in a western society, but now I know that this is what has to be done, I need to stop identifying and binding myself to certain feelings and thoughts, for thereby comes hurt.
I am not to analyze a certain thought feeling and dellude myself with the pondering that this is a part of myself. It is not, that is not me, I am neither thought nor feeling, and now I am going to try to get that one pointed awareness that prefers neither pleasure or pain. Easier said than done I suppose, but I feel much better now.
This is the breakthrough that I was looking for! peace people!
I'm not even sure this has anything to do with the question I asked, but I know that his was the answer that I searched. So bear with me
93 93/93
93
Finaly I am begining to understand the true understanding of some matters, like the buddists say that you are supposed to observe your thoughts and not put any value to them.
This seem like a simple statement, and I thought I knew what it meant,
It is the same thing that is mentioned in Liber Al Vel Legis, there is a passages that goes something like: "Bind nothing for thereby comes hurt". I even understand this passage better now, I allways associated this with material things etc, but now I understand that this comes to feelings and thoughts as well! (btw are feelings and thoughts the same thing?). I have allways bound thoughts and feelings calling them a part of myself, but now it's time to let them flow unhindered and trying to learn that they are not my true self. But as I said earlier, I have a thing for flattering myself with certain thoughts about myself, so this will be tricky, this means being constantly aware of my own thoughts and feeling 24/7. This doesn't seem very easy in a western society, but now I know that this is what has to be done, I need to stop identifying and binding myself to certain feelings and thoughts, for thereby comes hurt.
I am not to analyze a certain thought feeling and dellude myself with the pondering that this is a part of myself. It is not, that is not me, I am neither thought nor feeling, and now I am going to try to get that one pointed awareness that prefers neither pleasure or pain. Easier said than done I suppose, but I feel much better now.
This is the breakthrough that I was looking for! peace people!
I'm not even sure this has anything to do with the question I asked, but I know that his was the answer that I searched. So bear with me
93 93/93
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Original post: Captator
[QUOTE=Fraulein Meow]The darkest parts of your psyche are where your true power lies. It probably looks like a bit of a dungheap at this point, but you've really found a goldmine. It's just that the gold is currently in a raw, unpolished and unrefined form.
How long has it been since you've felt that hatred before this? The last time you hated passionately is the last time that part of your psyche was allowed to develop - so naturally, it's still in an immature and un-integrated state. It's been left to stagnate while the other parts of you (or at least the parts you've taken responsibility for) have been allowed to flourish and grow. The only way to allow those parts of your psyche (the newly discovered parts you've referred to above) to grow and transform into something useful is to take full responsibility for them.
Nuture them, listen to them and then make your own descisions about how to behave. Even if you had something so dark within you, something that strongly desired to murder people (for instance) - you don't have to do it, just listen to what it tells you and proceed to do what you truly think is best. As long as you remain impartial to them & don't slavishly follow their urgings, the darker parts of the psyche will then adjust themselves in such a way that they'll be more useful to you. This is part (though not all) of what is meant by the transformation of lead into gold.
I've known people who thought they were loving and tolerent in an enlightened way - and when they were able to really see themselves they found out that they were total pushovers with no power of their own. Love and understanding do not equal enlightenment, you need discrimination and aggression as well in order to ever get any real work done. Haven't you ever heard of zen teachers who wield sticks with which to beat their students? If they had only love and understanding they would be impotent as teachers.
Fatbastard has good advice - don't try to escape your pain. In fact, invite it in, let it flow through you with no resistance. This is the way to transform pain. Pain is nothing more than resistance. Why do you think 'enlightened masters' seem to walk around in a state of constant bliss? They have no resistance, everything flows through them naturally - and as a result there is no pain, merely the pleasure which is the constant flow of life and consciousness.
I don't mean to pontificate here - all of what I've written above has helped me tremendously in the past.
FM[/QUOTE]
93
Yeah I will not escape it, I will try, and I will also try not to run away with my friend called "Dr feel good etc". I think It's all about not identifying oneself with neither good or bad feelings, nothing should dominate one. And this will be tought to learn, but at least now I see it!!
Come forth hideous beast!
93 93/93
[QUOTE=Fraulein Meow]The darkest parts of your psyche are where your true power lies. It probably looks like a bit of a dungheap at this point, but you've really found a goldmine. It's just that the gold is currently in a raw, unpolished and unrefined form.
How long has it been since you've felt that hatred before this? The last time you hated passionately is the last time that part of your psyche was allowed to develop - so naturally, it's still in an immature and un-integrated state. It's been left to stagnate while the other parts of you (or at least the parts you've taken responsibility for) have been allowed to flourish and grow. The only way to allow those parts of your psyche (the newly discovered parts you've referred to above) to grow and transform into something useful is to take full responsibility for them.
Nuture them, listen to them and then make your own descisions about how to behave. Even if you had something so dark within you, something that strongly desired to murder people (for instance) - you don't have to do it, just listen to what it tells you and proceed to do what you truly think is best. As long as you remain impartial to them & don't slavishly follow their urgings, the darker parts of the psyche will then adjust themselves in such a way that they'll be more useful to you. This is part (though not all) of what is meant by the transformation of lead into gold.
I've known people who thought they were loving and tolerent in an enlightened way - and when they were able to really see themselves they found out that they were total pushovers with no power of their own. Love and understanding do not equal enlightenment, you need discrimination and aggression as well in order to ever get any real work done. Haven't you ever heard of zen teachers who wield sticks with which to beat their students? If they had only love and understanding they would be impotent as teachers.
Fatbastard has good advice - don't try to escape your pain. In fact, invite it in, let it flow through you with no resistance. This is the way to transform pain. Pain is nothing more than resistance. Why do you think 'enlightened masters' seem to walk around in a state of constant bliss? They have no resistance, everything flows through them naturally - and as a result there is no pain, merely the pleasure which is the constant flow of life and consciousness.
I don't mean to pontificate here - all of what I've written above has helped me tremendously in the past.
FM[/QUOTE]
93
Yeah I will not escape it, I will try, and I will also try not to run away with my friend called "Dr feel good etc". I think It's all about not identifying oneself with neither good or bad feelings, nothing should dominate one. And this will be tought to learn, but at least now I see it!!
Come forth hideous beast!
93 93/93
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Original post: Ludi
Part of what is helping me in the knowing and accepting process is my ritual invocation, in which I invoke Change. I am Change. That means I don't have to be permanently attached to anything I find in myself, it is not my Self, it is just a part of the process of Change. This sounds somewhat contradictory with the idea of accepting oneself with unpleasant aspects, but being Change doesn't mean I necessarily control that Change (though I might, I'm not entirely sure at this point, I think I may). It doesn't mean hiding or running from an aspect - Change doesn't mean running, it just means living.
I wish I were better at discussing these things. I'm afraid I'm not going to say anything very profound because I don't speak the lingo.
Part of what is helping me in the knowing and accepting process is my ritual invocation, in which I invoke Change. I am Change. That means I don't have to be permanently attached to anything I find in myself, it is not my Self, it is just a part of the process of Change. This sounds somewhat contradictory with the idea of accepting oneself with unpleasant aspects, but being Change doesn't mean I necessarily control that Change (though I might, I'm not entirely sure at this point, I think I may). It doesn't mean hiding or running from an aspect - Change doesn't mean running, it just means living.
I wish I were better at discussing these things. I'm afraid I'm not going to say anything very profound because I don't speak the lingo.
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Original post: fatbastard
excuses for beeing what he is at any particular moment. This approach is
gently cultivated and nurtured and not yearned for aggressively, it is the 'sweet fire'. In plain words, dont try TOO MUCH in doing this. Eventually it will bloom and
fruit in its own accord.
And another thing, I've found that emotions generally speak more clearly if
viewed as visiting guests.
Glad to be any of help.
Well, I mostly regard feelings as the weather. The weather doesn't have anyBut as I said earlier, I have a thing for flattering myself with certain thoughts about myself, so this will be tricky, this means being constantly aware of my own thoughts and feeling 24/7.
excuses for beeing what he is at any particular moment. This approach is
gently cultivated and nurtured and not yearned for aggressively, it is the 'sweet fire'. In plain words, dont try TOO MUCH in doing this. Eventually it will bloom and
fruit in its own accord.
And another thing, I've found that emotions generally speak more clearly if
viewed as visiting guests.
Glad to be any of help.
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Know thyself
Original post: Captator
[QUOTE=fatbastard]Well, I mostly regard feelings as the weather. The weather doesn't have any
excuses for beeing what he is at any particular moment. This approach is
gently cultivated and nurtured and not yearned for aggressively, it is the 'sweet fire'. In plain words, dont try TOO MUCH in doing this. Eventually it will bloom and
fruit in its own accord.
And another thing, I've found that emotions generally speak more clearly if
viewed as visiting guests.
Glad to be any of help.[/QUOTE]
93
Yeah I will try not to "try TOO MUCH", this is another problem that I am struggeling with, I allways try too much, and in the end it all falls to dust. Even my name reveals my nature. I hope one day to be able to leave it behind, but I will have to carry it's meaning for a while more.
Thanks m8!
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[QUOTE=fatbastard]Well, I mostly regard feelings as the weather. The weather doesn't have any
excuses for beeing what he is at any particular moment. This approach is
gently cultivated and nurtured and not yearned for aggressively, it is the 'sweet fire'. In plain words, dont try TOO MUCH in doing this. Eventually it will bloom and
fruit in its own accord.
And another thing, I've found that emotions generally speak more clearly if
viewed as visiting guests.
Glad to be any of help.[/QUOTE]
93
Yeah I will try not to "try TOO MUCH", this is another problem that I am struggeling with, I allways try too much, and in the end it all falls to dust. Even my name reveals my nature. I hope one day to be able to leave it behind, but I will have to carry it's meaning for a while more.
Thanks m8!
93 93/93
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Know thyself
Original post: fiat_lux_777
93
"Know Thyself" - the basis of spiritual progress (IMO). The easiest method to start to get to know yourself is to utilise Bardon's Black & White Mirror, wherein you list all your positive and negative attributes. Remember the goal is not to eradicate negatives, but to balance the psyche. Once you have an idea what is "wrong" with you, you can take steps to start to address why you think/feel/behave in this manner. The key is to become "aware". Once you are aware of ingrained responses to certain triggers you can start to change behaviour. You can also (of course) ritualise the process - if I ascertain that my nature is too fiery, and needs balancing, I can perform a ritual based on the Chesed to balance an overabundance of the energies of Geburah.
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Todd
93
"Know Thyself" - the basis of spiritual progress (IMO). The easiest method to start to get to know yourself is to utilise Bardon's Black & White Mirror, wherein you list all your positive and negative attributes. Remember the goal is not to eradicate negatives, but to balance the psyche. Once you have an idea what is "wrong" with you, you can take steps to start to address why you think/feel/behave in this manner. The key is to become "aware". Once you are aware of ingrained responses to certain triggers you can start to change behaviour. You can also (of course) ritualise the process - if I ascertain that my nature is too fiery, and needs balancing, I can perform a ritual based on the Chesed to balance an overabundance of the energies of Geburah.
93 93/93
Todd
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Know thyself
Original post: Panu Nahka
I would say, that tear down the walls of demeanor you have built, and be what you "are" inside. And then, overcome that, step beyond it. See past the illusion of self and eradicate the patterns you cling to.
I would say, that tear down the walls of demeanor you have built, and be what you "are" inside. And then, overcome that, step beyond it. See past the illusion of self and eradicate the patterns you cling to.
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Know thyself
Original post: Captator
93
I know exactly what to do, I will in some way stop identifying myself with my "mind". My theory is that, the more i succed with this, the less I will be dominated by thoughts and feelings. In this way I will stop being "what I think" and I will start using the mind what it's supposed to be used for, a tool for achieving things. I am not my mind, I am something beneath it and that is what I am going to become...
Fiat lux: I have acctually started to observe my own thinking pattern (done this a little in the past aswell, but I didn't really knew that which I know now). And I will continue to do that as much as I can, I will let the thoughts come through, because it seems like that is their true will to do so, but what I understand now, is that the thoughts true will is not to be fullfilled, they just want to get my attention, and what I chose to do with them is another thing, it is then that the ""I"" comes forth and makes them reality if that is what the great """"I"""" wishes to do.
A restless mind, a mind that one is identifying oneself with, is a tool that has taken over ones life. Like a computer is a tool, when it takes over peoples lifes, like it did for me, it just get so very wrong. I believe most people are overhelmed by their own mind, and probably think that the mind itself is what they are. But one are is what one do, not what one thinks, in my opinion. This seems very easy to understand, but this took me two bloody years to really understand
Some of it are just some fancy philosophic thinking, but I will do more than think this over, I will try to achive what I have said that I am trying to achive.
I am not my mind, the mind is a part of me, like the body is a part of me, when I start identifying myself with either of them everything just becomes a mess, and my mind is the biggest mess. But i'm grateful for understanding this now. I will work with them, I will consecrate them to what they should really be consecrated to...the great work itself.
Peace people and thanks!
93 93/93
93
I know exactly what to do, I will in some way stop identifying myself with my "mind". My theory is that, the more i succed with this, the less I will be dominated by thoughts and feelings. In this way I will stop being "what I think" and I will start using the mind what it's supposed to be used for, a tool for achieving things. I am not my mind, I am something beneath it and that is what I am going to become...
Fiat lux: I have acctually started to observe my own thinking pattern (done this a little in the past aswell, but I didn't really knew that which I know now). And I will continue to do that as much as I can, I will let the thoughts come through, because it seems like that is their true will to do so, but what I understand now, is that the thoughts true will is not to be fullfilled, they just want to get my attention, and what I chose to do with them is another thing, it is then that the ""I"" comes forth and makes them reality if that is what the great """"I"""" wishes to do.
A restless mind, a mind that one is identifying oneself with, is a tool that has taken over ones life. Like a computer is a tool, when it takes over peoples lifes, like it did for me, it just get so very wrong. I believe most people are overhelmed by their own mind, and probably think that the mind itself is what they are. But one are is what one do, not what one thinks, in my opinion. This seems very easy to understand, but this took me two bloody years to really understand
Some of it are just some fancy philosophic thinking, but I will do more than think this over, I will try to achive what I have said that I am trying to achive.
I am not my mind, the mind is a part of me, like the body is a part of me, when I start identifying myself with either of them everything just becomes a mess, and my mind is the biggest mess. But i'm grateful for understanding this now. I will work with them, I will consecrate them to what they should really be consecrated to...the great work itself.
Peace people and thanks!
93 93/93
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Know thyself
Original post: Fr. Qim
First of all, remeber that awareness of a problem grows faster than control of it. As you work on a problem it seems to get worse. This is normal. Be patient and give it time, eventually your control will catch up with your sensitivity.
In the second place, you mentioned that you want to devote all to the great work in another post. Remember that an imperfect sacrafice will not be accepted. I commend you on your dedication, but it is sometimes the case that we must improve so called "unrelated" aspects of our lives before we can be ready to offer that life up as tribute to the SELF.
The mind must be calm and equitable. Therefore, do your best to simply let it flow. If you have a desire and IT WILL NOT VIOLATE THE RIGHTS OF ANOTHER than I recommend you indulge in it. You must use your own judgement in this, of course, but false restriction breeds vipers in the blood. Whether you act or do not act try not to dwell on it. Let self deprecating thoughts, or self congratulatory thoughts come and go as they will, simply observe.
Do you practice any regular meditation? I recommend ASANA to start. The basic can be found in Book 4 part 1 & 2 by Crowley. The god posture is easy. Sit in a chair, back straight, hands on thighs or knees. Breath as you will. Now don't move. Start with 5 minutes, build up until you have reached an hour. Don't be concerned if you happen to move. Just record your results in your journal, and try again tomorrow.
First of all, remeber that awareness of a problem grows faster than control of it. As you work on a problem it seems to get worse. This is normal. Be patient and give it time, eventually your control will catch up with your sensitivity.
In the second place, you mentioned that you want to devote all to the great work in another post. Remember that an imperfect sacrafice will not be accepted. I commend you on your dedication, but it is sometimes the case that we must improve so called "unrelated" aspects of our lives before we can be ready to offer that life up as tribute to the SELF.
The mind must be calm and equitable. Therefore, do your best to simply let it flow. If you have a desire and IT WILL NOT VIOLATE THE RIGHTS OF ANOTHER than I recommend you indulge in it. You must use your own judgement in this, of course, but false restriction breeds vipers in the blood. Whether you act or do not act try not to dwell on it. Let self deprecating thoughts, or self congratulatory thoughts come and go as they will, simply observe.
Do you practice any regular meditation? I recommend ASANA to start. The basic can be found in Book 4 part 1 & 2 by Crowley. The god posture is easy. Sit in a chair, back straight, hands on thighs or knees. Breath as you will. Now don't move. Start with 5 minutes, build up until you have reached an hour. Don't be concerned if you happen to move. Just record your results in your journal, and try again tomorrow.
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Know thyself
Original post: endor957
this is an interesting thread, but i don't know if i can accept the pain or pain is a thing to be accepted. i mean that's why there are drug addicts and alkies, i mean i know a great deal of thy self and it's not that i hate myself but i feel sorry for myself cuz that part of myself has a serious history that leads up to the present where my faults iz based.
but still, i mustn't let my pity or sympathy place mercy on my faults. the only thing i can do is learn and i learn by busting my ass, hey i'm hard headed and if that's the way than i can do that to.
captator, i think that thoughts and feelings are not the same. feelings is what moves us, and thoughts convey, describe or identify what that movement is and with out thoughts we can add to that movement.
don't feel bad if you identified yourself with your brain, i identify myself with my heart and others...who knows but knowing a thing isn't all that hard but to change it is the real challenge but in my case, to change it to a permanant good is my quest.
this is an interesting thread, but i don't know if i can accept the pain or pain is a thing to be accepted. i mean that's why there are drug addicts and alkies, i mean i know a great deal of thy self and it's not that i hate myself but i feel sorry for myself cuz that part of myself has a serious history that leads up to the present where my faults iz based.
but still, i mustn't let my pity or sympathy place mercy on my faults. the only thing i can do is learn and i learn by busting my ass, hey i'm hard headed and if that's the way than i can do that to.
captator, i think that thoughts and feelings are not the same. feelings is what moves us, and thoughts convey, describe or identify what that movement is and with out thoughts we can add to that movement.
don't feel bad if you identified yourself with your brain, i identify myself with my heart and others...who knows but knowing a thing isn't all that hard but to change it is the real challenge but in my case, to change it to a permanant good is my quest.
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Know thyself
Original post: Captator
[QUOTE=Fr. Qim]First of all, remeber that awareness of a problem grows faster than control of it. As you work on a problem it seems to get worse. This is normal. Be patient and give it time, eventually your control will catch up with your sensitivity.
In the second place, you mentioned that you want to devote all to the great work in another post. Remember that an imperfect sacrafice will not be accepted. I commend you on your dedication, but it is sometimes the case that we must improve so called "unrelated" aspects of our lives before we can be ready to offer that life up as tribute to the SELF.
The mind must be calm and equitable. Therefore, do your best to simply let it flow. If you have a desire and IT WILL NOT VIOLATE THE RIGHTS OF ANOTHER than I recommend you indulge in it. You must use your own judgement in this, of course, but false restriction breeds vipers in the blood. Whether you act or do not act try not to dwell on it. Let self deprecating thoughts, or self congratulatory thoughts come and go as they will, simply observe.
Do you practice any regular meditation? I recommend ASANA to start. The basic can be found in Book 4 part 1 & 2 by Crowley. The god posture is easy. Sit in a chair, back straight, hands on thighs or knees. Breath as you will. Now don't move. Start with 5 minutes, build up until you have reached an hour. Don't be concerned if you happen to move. Just record your results in your journal, and try again tomorrow.[/QUOTE]
93
Can you explain what control over a problem is? What did you have in mind when you wrote that?
I don't know the diffrence between a imperfect sacrifice and a sacrifice, to me there is only whole hearted sacrifice or failure if even trying to half heartedly sacrifice something (but that I think we all do most, until we learn the lesson of the whole hearted sacrifice). I will give an parable to make my self more clear how I think of this. If I try to for instance in my case, straighten out my back since it's crooked, it won't do practising asanas 1 hour a day and then forget about it going around with a bad posture 23/7, it requires to be dedicated to this practise 24/7 until the time it becomes a habit. I must give myself wholeheartedly to this very problem, I must sacrifice bad posture for good posture 24/7, if I don't I will never get better. haha I think my parable can stand for your statement aswell when I look at it. Well then lets move on.
I am currently not trying to overhelm myself and delluding myself with imperfect sacrifices, I have done this ALOT in the past and that has taught me not to do so. But that doesn't mean that I won't do it again, it means that I am aware of the problem. As you said, "awareness grows faster than control". I couldn't agree more.
Don't commend an Idealist! My dedication might be great in my mind, but less in acctually doing something. But then that is the work of the idealist, and that is the work i'm trying really hard to pick up.
There was a time when I enjoyed talking about things. But now is the time when I don't see any progress in talking about matters, when one can experience it. Of course I need knowledge about things, and that can come through discussions. But what I am totaly focused on now is HOW to get my ass out of inertia. And that is more than just thinking over on HOW one is to force onself to do diffrent exercises at special occasion every day, it is struggeling with the acctualy practises themselves.
"but it is sometimes the case that we must improve so called "unrelated" aspects of our lives before we can be ready to offer that life up as tribute to the SELF."
I can't get everything explained in my posts, and this is one of the things that I haven't explained and sure is a very important issue. I did comment about this now in my explaining on how I view the sacrifice. I know that things has to be worked on before they can be sacrificed, but in a sense one can say that is about the great work aswell, since working with thyself, and every aspect of yourself is indeed a part of that work. It is like taking a shower before a ritual, the shower may not be what you acctually plan to achive, but it is the preperation for what one is about to do, and if not prepared properly, things tend to go wrong.
If you have a desire and IT WILL NOT VIOLATE THE RIGHTS OF ANOTHER than I recommend you indulge in it.
Does this mean to indulge in analsex? hehe kidding, well it could be of course
hehe there is a paradox in this, why not violate others? When you are about to violate yourself?
I have practised regular meditation for over a year, but I stoped because of back problems, but now my back is getting in better shape and I will in the future pick up that practise and startover again, but I will not rush this, since I am a lazy man, and when lazy men try to handle to many things at a time, they will eventually drop everything and go back to lazyness
Please forgive me if I am rambling in this post, I don't know if I have even made a point here. But it's nice to practise the writing and understanding of the english language
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[QUOTE=Fr. Qim]First of all, remeber that awareness of a problem grows faster than control of it. As you work on a problem it seems to get worse. This is normal. Be patient and give it time, eventually your control will catch up with your sensitivity.
In the second place, you mentioned that you want to devote all to the great work in another post. Remember that an imperfect sacrafice will not be accepted. I commend you on your dedication, but it is sometimes the case that we must improve so called "unrelated" aspects of our lives before we can be ready to offer that life up as tribute to the SELF.
The mind must be calm and equitable. Therefore, do your best to simply let it flow. If you have a desire and IT WILL NOT VIOLATE THE RIGHTS OF ANOTHER than I recommend you indulge in it. You must use your own judgement in this, of course, but false restriction breeds vipers in the blood. Whether you act or do not act try not to dwell on it. Let self deprecating thoughts, or self congratulatory thoughts come and go as they will, simply observe.
Do you practice any regular meditation? I recommend ASANA to start. The basic can be found in Book 4 part 1 & 2 by Crowley. The god posture is easy. Sit in a chair, back straight, hands on thighs or knees. Breath as you will. Now don't move. Start with 5 minutes, build up until you have reached an hour. Don't be concerned if you happen to move. Just record your results in your journal, and try again tomorrow.[/QUOTE]
93
Can you explain what control over a problem is? What did you have in mind when you wrote that?
I don't know the diffrence between a imperfect sacrifice and a sacrifice, to me there is only whole hearted sacrifice or failure if even trying to half heartedly sacrifice something (but that I think we all do most, until we learn the lesson of the whole hearted sacrifice). I will give an parable to make my self more clear how I think of this. If I try to for instance in my case, straighten out my back since it's crooked, it won't do practising asanas 1 hour a day and then forget about it going around with a bad posture 23/7, it requires to be dedicated to this practise 24/7 until the time it becomes a habit. I must give myself wholeheartedly to this very problem, I must sacrifice bad posture for good posture 24/7, if I don't I will never get better. haha I think my parable can stand for your statement aswell when I look at it. Well then lets move on.
I am currently not trying to overhelm myself and delluding myself with imperfect sacrifices, I have done this ALOT in the past and that has taught me not to do so. But that doesn't mean that I won't do it again, it means that I am aware of the problem. As you said, "awareness grows faster than control". I couldn't agree more.
Don't commend an Idealist!
My dedication might be great in my mind, but less in acctually doing something. But then that is the work of the idealist, and that is the work i'm trying really hard to pick up. There was a time when I enjoyed talking about things. But now is the time when I don't see any progress in talking about matters, when one can experience it. Of course I need knowledge about things, and that can come through discussions. But what I am totaly focused on now is HOW to get my ass out of inertia. And that is more than just thinking over on HOW one is to force onself to do diffrent exercises at special occasion every day, it is struggeling with the acctualy practises themselves.
"but it is sometimes the case that we must improve so called "unrelated" aspects of our lives before we can be ready to offer that life up as tribute to the SELF."
I can't get everything explained in my posts, and this is one of the things that I haven't explained and sure is a very important issue. I did comment about this now in my explaining on how I view the sacrifice. I know that things has to be worked on before they can be sacrificed, but in a sense one can say that is about the great work aswell, since working with thyself, and every aspect of yourself is indeed a part of that work. It is like taking a shower before a ritual, the shower may not be what you acctually plan to achive, but it is the preperation for what one is about to do, and if not prepared properly, things tend to go wrong.
If you have a desire and IT WILL NOT VIOLATE THE RIGHTS OF ANOTHER than I recommend you indulge in it.
Does this mean to indulge in analsex? hehe kidding, well it could be of course
hehe there is a paradox in this, why not violate others? When you are about to violate yourself?
I have practised regular meditation for over a year, but I stoped because of back problems, but now my back is getting in better shape and I will in the future pick up that practise and startover again, but I will not rush this, since I am a lazy man, and when lazy men try to handle to many things at a time, they will eventually drop everything and go back to lazyness
Please forgive me if I am rambling in this post, I don't know if I have even made a point here. But it's nice to practise the writing and understanding of the english language
93 93/93
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Know thyself
Original post: Was I Deleted, Again?
and accept no substitute.
JQP
....though the heavens fall.
a longer post than it appears.
and accept no substitute.
JQP
....though the heavens fall.
a longer post than it appears.