Original post: Calintz
Hope the title got your attention, hehe. Since my attempts at astral travel ( i can get to the whole 'omg my hearts about to jump out of my chest' phase but no further, hence my question) I've been learning more and more about the world i'm about to dive head first into. Many occultists speculate (or more specifically claim) that entitys there are beings that gave up their physical bodies long ago, now i'm sure you can guess what my question is. Will we ever do this? Like..the next step of human evolution?
That isn't my only question...i've been wondering (maybe against all hope) if there is any way to remove all those negative energies or beings from the astral...however, upon review i see that there has to be 'evil' which balances out the good...then my question is this...is there no way to push that negative energy out of the way for good? or is it just another fact of life?
Much love an thanks.
A war on the others
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
A war on the others
Original post: Saraqiel
Lol, evil is a figmant imposed on your imagination... Don't give into it, choose the more loving path and it will simply cease to exist!
Lol, evil is a figmant imposed on your imagination... Don't give into it, choose the more loving path and it will simply cease to exist!
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
A war on the others
Original post: bayan
Interesting title , its believed that the war of Armaggedon is currently being being fought on the astral plane , between the angels of light and the anglels of dark. So good luck out their.
Interesting title , its believed that the war of Armaggedon is currently being being fought on the astral plane , between the angels of light and the anglels of dark. So good luck out their.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
A war on the others
Original post: Middle
One way to think of these beings is not that they're "evil" but that they're doing what is in their nature to do. You, wanting to eliminate them, would be "evil" in their books by the same token. If they need to feed off your energy to get by, are they doing something wrong? Immanuel Kant suggested that there is no "good" and "bad", there is only "good intention" and acts can be valued based on whether they are done with "good intention" or not.
If the being does what it does because it thinks it's a good thing to do, then it is. The consequences may be bad, and that sucks, but does that make the entity evil?
IN ANY CASE --
I've read, and experienced, that one of the major fears of people who astral project is never returning to their body. Accept it or not, your physical body IS part of you - and even those who've reached enlightenment (if you believe that any have) remain in their physical form, often through various lifetimes (Dalai Lama).
On the flipside, some people believe that the "cycle" of a spirit is 140 years (something to that effect. 7, which is the amount of years it takes your cells and spirit to renew itself, times 20 for some reaosn) - but when you die at 75 or so, your spirit spends the remaining part of that cycle just BEING - no physical body. Once the cycle renews itself, you regain your physical form.
Is it possible to remain as spiritual force? Would you even want to? A lot of people seem to be of the belief that the physical realm is the realm of experience, and that this is the only realm in which you can learn and grow. Perhaps if there comes a time when there's no more growth one can achieve then there will be no reason to return to the physical plane.
But then, mankind will more than likely be entirely eradicated by that time. Maybe we will take on other forms, or, our bodies lost forever, we will remain spirits. Who knows.
One way to think of these beings is not that they're "evil" but that they're doing what is in their nature to do. You, wanting to eliminate them, would be "evil" in their books by the same token. If they need to feed off your energy to get by, are they doing something wrong? Immanuel Kant suggested that there is no "good" and "bad", there is only "good intention" and acts can be valued based on whether they are done with "good intention" or not.
If the being does what it does because it thinks it's a good thing to do, then it is. The consequences may be bad, and that sucks, but does that make the entity evil?
IN ANY CASE --
I've read, and experienced, that one of the major fears of people who astral project is never returning to their body. Accept it or not, your physical body IS part of you - and even those who've reached enlightenment (if you believe that any have) remain in their physical form, often through various lifetimes (Dalai Lama).
On the flipside, some people believe that the "cycle" of a spirit is 140 years (something to that effect. 7, which is the amount of years it takes your cells and spirit to renew itself, times 20 for some reaosn) - but when you die at 75 or so, your spirit spends the remaining part of that cycle just BEING - no physical body. Once the cycle renews itself, you regain your physical form.
Is it possible to remain as spiritual force? Would you even want to? A lot of people seem to be of the belief that the physical realm is the realm of experience, and that this is the only realm in which you can learn and grow. Perhaps if there comes a time when there's no more growth one can achieve then there will be no reason to return to the physical plane.
But then, mankind will more than likely be entirely eradicated by that time. Maybe we will take on other forms, or, our bodies lost forever, we will remain spirits. Who knows.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
A war on the others
Original post: IconoAnthysta
[QUOTE=Calintz]... Will we ever do this? Like..the next step of human evolution?...[/QUOTE] Probably not.
Should the astral even exist (and I have my doubts about that) evolution would have nothing to do with it. Evolution is simply change over time guided by reproduction and survival.
So unless becoming astral helped humans reproduce more and survive until reproductive age at a better rate than the current one, and therefore spread more genes tending toward astral tendencies or traits, no, evolution will not guide us towards an astral state.
[QUOTE=Calintz]... Will we ever do this? Like..the next step of human evolution?...[/QUOTE] Probably not.
Should the astral even exist (and I have my doubts about that) evolution would have nothing to do with it. Evolution is simply change over time guided by reproduction and survival.
So unless becoming astral helped humans reproduce more and survive until reproductive age at a better rate than the current one, and therefore spread more genes tending toward astral tendencies or traits, no, evolution will not guide us towards an astral state.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
A war on the others
Original post: OndeAander
Middle, you begin to also address the concept of time "in the astral" .. I should think time is perceived differently from that perspective, just a thought for discussion
Middle, you begin to also address the concept of time "in the astral" .. I should think time is perceived differently from that perspective, just a thought for discussion
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
A war on the others
Original post: Middle
OndeAander - are you referring to the years of renewal, or time spent in the astral while your body is at rest?
In either case, sure, time continues on the physical plain while you're a spirit, why not? Doesn't mean it happens at the same perceived speed, but since "years" are a clearly mundane metric (rotation of the earth around the sun) it happens at a regular pace on the physical world.
Also, if you believe you're capable of having non-instantaneous communication with spirits, it's conceivable that they perceive time, if not exactly, in a similar way to us.
OndeAander - are you referring to the years of renewal, or time spent in the astral while your body is at rest?
In either case, sure, time continues on the physical plain while you're a spirit, why not? Doesn't mean it happens at the same perceived speed, but since "years" are a clearly mundane metric (rotation of the earth around the sun) it happens at a regular pace on the physical world.
Also, if you believe you're capable of having non-instantaneous communication with spirits, it's conceivable that they perceive time, if not exactly, in a similar way to us.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
A war on the others
Original post: ChaosTech
Hah, dark ones fighting dark ones, but what's new right?
Sorry friend, but try again. The way of the light is not to fight. Defend yes, war, which implies agression, definately no.
You may think you are of the light, and you are, but not as much as you think. Harmony, equality, love, courage, virtue, etc, these are things of the light.
The power of creation is obviously more powerful than it's opposite of destruction. If it wasn't, nothing would exist, as destruction would have won the beginning it began (to use a linear analogy).
Light does not fight dark. Dark fights dark. Remember this and you will save yourself alot of suffering.
By the grace of light, that is the lifeforce, all things are given existence and continue to exist, good, bad, or otherwise.
By light and dark, I mean forces that harmonise with the cosmic whole, and those which disharmonise, of course. As this is the common western (messed up, illogical, and sexist I might add, but meh..) symbolism.
There are many dark ones like myself, who fancy the cooler more passive energies of the darkness, and even the lower vibrational light like from the stars (additive/projected), and moon (subtractive/reflected), over the warm more active energies of the day, and are certainly not "evil," or "disharmonious."
Symbols are symbols folks. Pure light is no different than pure darkness, in both one is visually dead. When using these concepts for the two poles of the energies of the cosmos, the same is true, except instead of ones eyes being blinded (rendered Null), oneself is.
Evil is usually seen as imbalance. But before you go wanting to whipe out all the imbalances in the cosmos, you should realize that few if any of us are balanced ourselves.
In other words as one member said here not long ago in another topic, "check your own glass house before you go throwing huge fucking boulders at others."
The cosmos is Maat, i.e. a huge balancing machine. Go deep enough into the abyss, and you'll find yourself in heaven, and vice versa. (Btw, this is the whole points of the LHP and RHP initiatory systems in magickal/spiritual traditions, as God, which includes that essence within you and all things, is indeed both the Destroyer and Creator) Great imbalances are always corrected by an equal and opposite great imbalance (eventually), though you may or may not be aware of this totally in ever act you have taken and will take, through this life, the past one (if not a first born) and the next.
The essence within you, called by many, spirit. Exists, has always, and will always. Though the form it is now, that is the conscious human being that is you, can be changed, either into an even higher (more advanced), being, or an even lower (more limited), being. Your choices are the biggest factor which determines this, being a conscious form and all.
Good luck and all, on those astral wars if you choose to do them though. Unless you are some kind of grand master at APing though, you are using the same mentality as a child walking into a battlefield. May the gods, like parents have pity on you.
As a rule of thumb before doing anything involving occultism, more should use common sense. Actions involving the magickal/spiritual and the dos and don't surronding them are no different than similar mundane acts.
Just like walking down the street, you can be harmed, injured, or even killed astral projecting folks, despite what the new age fluffy bunnies say. The likelyhood, just like travelling in the physical is next to nothing, when using your head and staying on the safe routes, finding knowlegable honest guides, asking directions, etc. And for those of you who think APing is some sort of inward hallucination, well, even if it was (it isn't, for too many reasons, but for the sake of arguement), ever seen someone with severe scitzophrenia, or who is permanetly fried from too much acid (LSD)? Or even what happens to the human nervious system in those extreme VR experiments?
Inner, outer, or somewhere inbetween. Yes, stupidity, just like in the physical will and shall be painful (to the least).
Keep working on your APing attempts, and when you finally lift off, my best advice would be to act like an alien in a whole new dimension. In other words, be humble, use you head, and stick to those higher planes. By the time you are ready to battle anything, if you choose, on the astral, hopefully you will have learned that avoidance is better, just like in the physical, and will avoid this whole highly potentially painful, frightening, dangerious, and in general stupid idea.
Astral battles, like "witch wars," are for chumps. If you want real power, do your best to avoid both. The divine favors, and so guides, gifts, protects, etc, those who practice the philosophy of "live and let live, or exist and let exist" trust me.
Be humble, little human. This cosmos is too huge to be filled full of egotism and so excess pride.
Hah, dark ones fighting dark ones, but what's new right?
Sorry friend, but try again. The way of the light is not to fight. Defend yes, war, which implies agression, definately no.
You may think you are of the light, and you are, but not as much as you think. Harmony, equality, love, courage, virtue, etc, these are things of the light.
The power of creation is obviously more powerful than it's opposite of destruction. If it wasn't, nothing would exist, as destruction would have won the beginning it began (to use a linear analogy).
Light does not fight dark. Dark fights dark. Remember this and you will save yourself alot of suffering.
By the grace of light, that is the lifeforce, all things are given existence and continue to exist, good, bad, or otherwise.
By light and dark, I mean forces that harmonise with the cosmic whole, and those which disharmonise, of course. As this is the common western (messed up, illogical, and sexist I might add, but meh..) symbolism.
There are many dark ones like myself, who fancy the cooler more passive energies of the darkness, and even the lower vibrational light like from the stars (additive/projected), and moon (subtractive/reflected), over the warm more active energies of the day, and are certainly not "evil," or "disharmonious."
Symbols are symbols folks. Pure light is no different than pure darkness, in both one is visually dead. When using these concepts for the two poles of the energies of the cosmos, the same is true, except instead of ones eyes being blinded (rendered Null), oneself is.
Evil is usually seen as imbalance. But before you go wanting to whipe out all the imbalances in the cosmos, you should realize that few if any of us are balanced ourselves.
In other words as one member said here not long ago in another topic, "check your own glass house before you go throwing huge fucking boulders at others."
The cosmos is Maat, i.e. a huge balancing machine. Go deep enough into the abyss, and you'll find yourself in heaven, and vice versa. (Btw, this is the whole points of the LHP and RHP initiatory systems in magickal/spiritual traditions, as God, which includes that essence within you and all things, is indeed both the Destroyer and Creator) Great imbalances are always corrected by an equal and opposite great imbalance (eventually), though you may or may not be aware of this totally in ever act you have taken and will take, through this life, the past one (if not a first born) and the next.
The essence within you, called by many, spirit. Exists, has always, and will always. Though the form it is now, that is the conscious human being that is you, can be changed, either into an even higher (more advanced), being, or an even lower (more limited), being. Your choices are the biggest factor which determines this, being a conscious form and all.
Good luck and all, on those astral wars if you choose to do them though. Unless you are some kind of grand master at APing though, you are using the same mentality as a child walking into a battlefield. May the gods, like parents have pity on you.
As a rule of thumb before doing anything involving occultism, more should use common sense. Actions involving the magickal/spiritual and the dos and don't surronding them are no different than similar mundane acts.
Just like walking down the street, you can be harmed, injured, or even killed astral projecting folks, despite what the new age fluffy bunnies say. The likelyhood, just like travelling in the physical is next to nothing, when using your head and staying on the safe routes, finding knowlegable honest guides, asking directions, etc. And for those of you who think APing is some sort of inward hallucination, well, even if it was (it isn't, for too many reasons, but for the sake of arguement), ever seen someone with severe scitzophrenia, or who is permanetly fried from too much acid (LSD)? Or even what happens to the human nervious system in those extreme VR experiments?
Inner, outer, or somewhere inbetween. Yes, stupidity, just like in the physical will and shall be painful (to the least).
Keep working on your APing attempts, and when you finally lift off, my best advice would be to act like an alien in a whole new dimension. In other words, be humble, use you head, and stick to those higher planes. By the time you are ready to battle anything, if you choose, on the astral, hopefully you will have learned that avoidance is better, just like in the physical, and will avoid this whole highly potentially painful, frightening, dangerious, and in general stupid idea.
Astral battles, like "witch wars," are for chumps. If you want real power, do your best to avoid both. The divine favors, and so guides, gifts, protects, etc, those who practice the philosophy of "live and let live, or exist and let exist" trust me.
Be humble, little human. This cosmos is too huge to be filled full of egotism and so excess pride.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
A war on the others
Original post: Radiant Star
Brilliant post Chaos Tech.
This struggle is one of our biggest; the balancing of our darker and lighter aspects.
A tough call indeed.
Brilliant post Chaos Tech.
This struggle is one of our biggest; the balancing of our darker and lighter aspects.
A tough call indeed.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
A war on the others
Original post: Calintz
Okay, i understand what your saying that G and E (good and evil) can be seen as points of view etc. But how can you justify an entity causing an action which leads to someone elses destruction because it needs that energy? Take for example the malicious entity haunting the man in : http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=13563
Can you really say that's 'ok' because the entity in question -needs- that energy?
And another thing i do not proclaim that i am a frickin 'holy warrior on the path of righteousness' I accept that i am a piece of shit as far as 'god' or the source is concerned, a tiny lil speck of dust (if even that) in its eyes but that doesn't mean that i cannot sympathise or act on other negative acts does it? If i see a negative frightening the living crap out of someone on the astral because it wants a nice juice human drinking fest am i not obliged to help that person and go out of my way to make that thing beg for hell due to what it put that person through?
I am not an arrogant kid, although i may seem to be, but i can't help but question the methods of 'good' in the current situation, sitting back and letting that which may be seen to be evil slap everything up and smear paint over the white canvas. If i do successfully astral project im not going to go seeking things just to kick their ass i am deeply rooted in the 'i attack you if you attack me' philosophy and thats mainly where my post was aimed at. If a negative energy went or tried something with me am i not justified in kicking its ass as opposed to 'letting it slap my other cheek' too?
Is there no line that states 'you will not cross this or ill fucking spank you?' or is it a case of 'hey, sure come on im an easy meal hahey!'
one last thing 'may the gods like parents have pity on you' what in the hell? Why would this 'supreme being whos all loving and all caring' let an egotistical monster like me even live? Surely if he did then his/her/its pity would be reserved for nothing short of the perfect human, or at the very least someone who wasnt, as you imply, 'an arrogant, idiotic, child'
Okay, i understand what your saying that G and E (good and evil) can be seen as points of view etc. But how can you justify an entity causing an action which leads to someone elses destruction because it needs that energy? Take for example the malicious entity haunting the man in : http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=13563
Can you really say that's 'ok' because the entity in question -needs- that energy?
And another thing i do not proclaim that i am a frickin 'holy warrior on the path of righteousness' I accept that i am a piece of shit as far as 'god' or the source is concerned, a tiny lil speck of dust (if even that) in its eyes but that doesn't mean that i cannot sympathise or act on other negative acts does it? If i see a negative frightening the living crap out of someone on the astral because it wants a nice juice human drinking fest am i not obliged to help that person and go out of my way to make that thing beg for hell due to what it put that person through?
I am not an arrogant kid, although i may seem to be, but i can't help but question the methods of 'good' in the current situation, sitting back and letting that which may be seen to be evil slap everything up and smear paint over the white canvas. If i do successfully astral project im not going to go seeking things just to kick their ass i am deeply rooted in the 'i attack you if you attack me' philosophy and thats mainly where my post was aimed at. If a negative energy went or tried something with me am i not justified in kicking its ass as opposed to 'letting it slap my other cheek' too?
Is there no line that states 'you will not cross this or ill fucking spank you?' or is it a case of 'hey, sure come on im an easy meal hahey!'
one last thing 'may the gods like parents have pity on you' what in the hell? Why would this 'supreme being whos all loving and all caring' let an egotistical monster like me even live? Surely if he did then his/her/its pity would be reserved for nothing short of the perfect human, or at the very least someone who wasnt, as you imply, 'an arrogant, idiotic, child'
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
A war on the others
Original post: Ludi
Why do you anticipate negative entities? I guess I'm just so fluffy bunny, I never anticipate meeting any of them anywhere...
Why do you anticipate negative entities? I guess I'm just so fluffy bunny, I never anticipate meeting any of them anywhere...
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
A war on the others
Original post: Calintz
[QUOTE=Ludi]Why do you anticipate negative entities? I guess I'm just so fluffy bunny, I never anticipate meeting any of them anywhere...[/QUOTE]
Because im bipolar and paraoid. I'm freaking worried i'll think 'man..whats it like down in the lower vib levels' and alluva sudden ZAP i'll end up there. Plus it seems to be at a 'safe' level you have to be basically ned flanders.
[QUOTE=Ludi]Why do you anticipate negative entities? I guess I'm just so fluffy bunny, I never anticipate meeting any of them anywhere...[/QUOTE]
Because im bipolar and paraoid. I'm freaking worried i'll think 'man..whats it like down in the lower vib levels' and alluva sudden ZAP i'll end up there. Plus it seems to be at a 'safe' level you have to be basically ned flanders.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
A war on the others
Original post: Ludi
I'm bipolar and paranoid too, but not about entities...
I'm bipolar and paranoid too, but not about entities...
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
A war on the others
Original post: Calintz
nono, me neither. I'm paranoid about different stuff...but entitys i have nothing but anger towards. Pisses me off how they jerk people about so much, thus the topic. I'd prefer a happy medium situation where i dont have to sit on a seesaw and each party can be content. If i saw any that tried something obviousy i would be angered moreso, to an indescribable level...why? Because although i myself am a psy vamp it disgusts me how they act, making people do things they normally wouldn't imo.
this is only heightened by the gung-ho people saying 'hey, just let them smack you up, its all good! to be good you have to sit down and be trampled!'
nono, me neither. I'm paranoid about different stuff...but entitys i have nothing but anger towards. Pisses me off how they jerk people about so much, thus the topic. I'd prefer a happy medium situation where i dont have to sit on a seesaw and each party can be content. If i saw any that tried something obviousy i would be angered moreso, to an indescribable level...why? Because although i myself am a psy vamp it disgusts me how they act, making people do things they normally wouldn't imo.
this is only heightened by the gung-ho people saying 'hey, just let them smack you up, its all good! to be good you have to sit down and be trampled!'
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
A war on the others
Original post: Ludi
Ok, see, I don't have those sorts of opinions about them, because I've never encountered them, the negative ones, as far as I know...
Ok, see, I don't have those sorts of opinions about them, because I've never encountered them, the negative ones, as far as I know...
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
A war on the others
Original post: ages0ne
I also got to agree with ChaosTech here in that 'things' tend to ballance out whether we are able to be aware of it or not. It may happen across town, on the other side of the planet, maybe even on the opposite end of the universe. Hell... who knows, maybe 1000 years into the future. Eitherway, it will ballance out and 0rder will continue to exist. If this were false, ChaosTech was correct in saying The Big Bang would of collapsed on itself before forming the universe and the galaxies held within it.
Does this mean you shouldnt fight the 'good' fight? IMO no. Because to me it would seem only fair in helping 'keep the ballance'. But know that the task you are seeking, is 0ne that has been dancing long before humans ever walked the face of this planet. But I've got this little theory that runs around in my head telling me 0ne side 'wins', and all is quite for about a fraction of a second before another big bang ensues. Birth, Life, Death, and Rebirth. With out this cycle nothing would exist.
[QUOTE=Calintz]And another thing i do not proclaim that i am a frickin 'holy warrior on the path of righteousness' I accept that i am a piece of shit as far as 'god' or the source is concerned, a tiny lil speck of dust (if even that) in its eyes but that doesn't mean that i cannot sympathise or act on other negative acts does it? If i see a negative frightening the living crap out of someone on the astral because it wants a nice juice human drinking fest am i not obliged to help that person and go out of my way to make that thing beg for hell due to what it put that person through?
[/QUOTE]
I just wanna quote from this awesome book I'm reading The Power of Myth with Joseph Campbell and Bill Moyers.
[QUOTE=The Power of Myth]Ironically, to Campbell the end of the hero's journey is not the aggrandizement of the hero. "It is," he said in one of his lectures, "not to identify oneself with any of the figures or powers experienced. The Indian yogi, striving for release, identifies himself with the Light and never returns. But no one with a will to the service of others would permit himself such an escape. The ultimate aim of the quest must be neither release nor ecstasy for oneself, but the wisdom and the power to serve others." One of the many distinctions between the celebrity and the hero, he said, is that one lives only for self while the other acts to redeem society.[/QUOTE]
May I wish you the best of luck on your quest Calintz.
Take care,
-aaron
I also got to agree with ChaosTech here in that 'things' tend to ballance out whether we are able to be aware of it or not. It may happen across town, on the other side of the planet, maybe even on the opposite end of the universe. Hell... who knows, maybe 1000 years into the future. Eitherway, it will ballance out and 0rder will continue to exist. If this were false, ChaosTech was correct in saying The Big Bang would of collapsed on itself before forming the universe and the galaxies held within it.
Does this mean you shouldnt fight the 'good' fight? IMO no. Because to me it would seem only fair in helping 'keep the ballance'. But know that the task you are seeking, is 0ne that has been dancing long before humans ever walked the face of this planet. But I've got this little theory that runs around in my head telling me 0ne side 'wins', and all is quite for about a fraction of a second before another big bang ensues. Birth, Life, Death, and Rebirth. With out this cycle nothing would exist.
[QUOTE=Calintz]And another thing i do not proclaim that i am a frickin 'holy warrior on the path of righteousness' I accept that i am a piece of shit as far as 'god' or the source is concerned, a tiny lil speck of dust (if even that) in its eyes but that doesn't mean that i cannot sympathise or act on other negative acts does it? If i see a negative frightening the living crap out of someone on the astral because it wants a nice juice human drinking fest am i not obliged to help that person and go out of my way to make that thing beg for hell due to what it put that person through?
[/QUOTE]
I just wanna quote from this awesome book I'm reading The Power of Myth with Joseph Campbell and Bill Moyers.
[QUOTE=The Power of Myth]Ironically, to Campbell the end of the hero's journey is not the aggrandizement of the hero. "It is," he said in one of his lectures, "not to identify oneself with any of the figures or powers experienced. The Indian yogi, striving for release, identifies himself with the Light and never returns. But no one with a will to the service of others would permit himself such an escape. The ultimate aim of the quest must be neither release nor ecstasy for oneself, but the wisdom and the power to serve others." One of the many distinctions between the celebrity and the hero, he said, is that one lives only for self while the other acts to redeem society.[/QUOTE]
May I wish you the best of luck on your quest Calintz.
Take care,
-aaron
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
A war on the others
Original post: ChaosTech
Here is a question to anyone reading this. Why did the infinate oneness ever create finateness (i.e. the illusion of seperation, i.e. creation)? This is a highly theological question, and being a human being myself, my guess is good as anyones. Getting that out of the way though. Maybe the infinate one, limited itself in an illusion of finateness to not only experience itself, but because being infinate, unbounded, and one, is lonely to say the least. There are Judaic/Christian/Muslim/Hindu "stories," as well as myths involving the gods in many other religions, that say exactly this. In essence God (or the gods), created creation, because it/they were lonely. Before one dismisses this as human anthropmorphising of the cosmos, it may contain a germ of the truth. Also, the ideal that all things were created out of love, in an esoteric sense, may be more true than one may think as well. Without love, what's the pont of anything? The most miserable people I've met are the one's who never felt loved, felt loved and were betrayed, and or don't know how to express their love. Love on an esoteric level, implies unity, equality, and in essence harmony. The highest planes of existence are said to be realms of pure love. On an intellectual as well as emotional level, this makes perfect sense, as they are closest to literally God (Infinate Oneness). Just as well, the lowest planes of existence are said to be realms of pure hate. Hate seperates one from others, total hatred seperates one from not only everything else, but from oneself. What happens when a self is seperated from itself? It becomes itself again. (- + - = +) This is the secret of the ritual of crossing the abyss. The soul is immortal, but the physical and astral shells are not. Negativity is not a force, but a lack of force. That is lifeforce. Evil, i.e. the wicked, are the weak plain and simple. Wherever there is darkness, there is a lack of light. Perhaps instead of trying to destroy that which is broken, remove that which is defunct, burn away the cancerious cells of the cosmos, we should fix and so heal?
After all there is a teaching which goes:
In the beginning was the Infinate Void.
The Infinate Void expanded to create a space which it was not.
Then contracted to fill that space with itself.
Becoming everything and nothing.
Negativity belongs to the space which God is not. Negativity is simply the lack of God.
Postivity, i.e the lifeforce, spirit, kia, etc, is indeed God.
Negativity is an illusion, a useful one as it allows for seperation, and so this reality, but when taken too far, becomes harmful indeed.
The ones of the "dark," are indeed very underdeveloped, weak, entities. Before destroying them, harming them, etc. Perhaps it would be better to see if one can first help these suffering children, as children (of God), they indeed are.
There is literally no abyss friends. In the words of Tool, "step into my shadow, come on out the other side." The princes and princesses of lies are just that, liers. The King of lies, is God, but unlike the infernal ones, God wants you to know evil is a lie (if it/he/she/neither/all didn't, we wouldn't and couldn't be having the conversation).
Just as well, dissolution into God, is a lie. The soul is immortal, what is there to dissolve into, when one already is what one wishes to be dissolved into?
But of course the ultimate rule for any conscious entity, is do what thou will. Just be prepared for the resulting "accept full responsibility for your actions." To do anything less, is to not just be ignorant, but live in all probability quite painfully. Being as though the mythical Adam and Eve, ate from the tree of knowlege of good and evil, in reality, the majority of us, if not all of us, are innocent, not even ignorant as ignorant implies ignoring what you know, when it comes to alot of "what is the best decision," questions in life, mercy, that is forgiveness is a good pratice to practice upon oneself, as well as others. After all, we were all thrown into this naked, screaming, and knowing not a thing.
This is as always just my own opinions based on my own experiences and learning.
*sigh* I hate mechanical mediums for communication:But how can you justify an entity causing an action which leads to someone elses destruction because it needs that energy? Take for example the malicious entity haunting the man in : http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=13563
Can you really say that's 'ok' because the entity in question -needs- that energy?
Defence meaning both of yourself and any you choose to defend. The whole turn the other cheeck philosophy has it's place as well in certain situations, but remember the guy who taught this, that being Jesus, was the same guy who got out a whip and starting whiping people when he saw them turning his god's temple in a marketplace. The lession being, having a long fuse is a good thing, but a long fuse is not an infinate fuse. Sometimes names must be taken and asses kicked.Sorry friend, but try again. The way of the light is not to fight. Defend yes, war, which implies agression, definately no.
Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law. Compassion is good, wisdom is good, but wisdom without compassion is folly, and compassion without wisdom is folly. This is what the Buddhist teach, and I have found it to be very true. Also, trash the "God hates me attitude," sounds like some kind of Christian, or some other monotheistic religion you have been subjected to, and failed to be integrated into, left over. Anthropmorphising God (the source, Tao, the All, etc) is lame, beyond the magickal/spiritual applications of it (allowing us finate things to interface with the infinate). God is what you make God, as the true God, is both within, without, everywhere and nowhere. God is too, well infinate, to understand totally. So anyway, trash this ideal, it will get you nowhere, as you will continue to fight some phantom image of some god "up there," which is constantly against you, which only really resides in your own soul, and fighting oneself gets beyond exausting.And another thing i do not proclaim that i am a frickin 'holy warrior on the path of righteousness' I accept that i am a piece of shit as far as 'god' or the source is concerned, a tiny lil speck of dust (if even that) in its eyes but that doesn't mean that i cannot sympathise or act on other negative acts does it?
You seem to only read what you like and forget the rest.one last thing 'may the gods like parents have pity on you' what in the hell? Why would this 'supreme being whos all loving and all caring' let an egotistical monster like me even live? Surely if he did then his/her/its pity would be reserved for nothing short of the perfect human, or at the very least someone who wasnt, as you imply, 'an arrogant, idiotic, child'
And btw, I never called you 'an arrogant, idiotic, child.' Where you got this, I have no clue. Relax man, no one is attacking you or anyone. This is just a discussion board, I posted in your thread in an attempt to help answer your questions. The whole point of both this and the other post was, first get to know the astral planes, and what kinds of entities inhabit any area of them, before worrying about fighting anything. You may just find out these astral nasties may not have to be fought at all to rid yourself and others of them.Good luck and all, on those astral wars if you choose to do them though. Unless you are some kind of grand master at APing though, you are using the same mentality as a child walking into a battlefield. May the gods, like parents have pity on you.
Here is a question to anyone reading this. Why did the infinate oneness ever create finateness (i.e. the illusion of seperation, i.e. creation)? This is a highly theological question, and being a human being myself, my guess is good as anyones. Getting that out of the way though. Maybe the infinate one, limited itself in an illusion of finateness to not only experience itself, but because being infinate, unbounded, and one, is lonely to say the least. There are Judaic/Christian/Muslim/Hindu "stories," as well as myths involving the gods in many other religions, that say exactly this. In essence God (or the gods), created creation, because it/they were lonely. Before one dismisses this as human anthropmorphising of the cosmos, it may contain a germ of the truth. Also, the ideal that all things were created out of love, in an esoteric sense, may be more true than one may think as well. Without love, what's the pont of anything? The most miserable people I've met are the one's who never felt loved, felt loved and were betrayed, and or don't know how to express their love. Love on an esoteric level, implies unity, equality, and in essence harmony. The highest planes of existence are said to be realms of pure love. On an intellectual as well as emotional level, this makes perfect sense, as they are closest to literally God (Infinate Oneness). Just as well, the lowest planes of existence are said to be realms of pure hate. Hate seperates one from others, total hatred seperates one from not only everything else, but from oneself. What happens when a self is seperated from itself? It becomes itself again. (- + - = +) This is the secret of the ritual of crossing the abyss. The soul is immortal, but the physical and astral shells are not. Negativity is not a force, but a lack of force. That is lifeforce. Evil, i.e. the wicked, are the weak plain and simple. Wherever there is darkness, there is a lack of light. Perhaps instead of trying to destroy that which is broken, remove that which is defunct, burn away the cancerious cells of the cosmos, we should fix and so heal?
After all there is a teaching which goes:
In the beginning was the Infinate Void.
The Infinate Void expanded to create a space which it was not.
Then contracted to fill that space with itself.
Becoming everything and nothing.
Negativity belongs to the space which God is not. Negativity is simply the lack of God.
Postivity, i.e the lifeforce, spirit, kia, etc, is indeed God.
Negativity is an illusion, a useful one as it allows for seperation, and so this reality, but when taken too far, becomes harmful indeed.
The ones of the "dark," are indeed very underdeveloped, weak, entities. Before destroying them, harming them, etc. Perhaps it would be better to see if one can first help these suffering children, as children (of God), they indeed are.
There is literally no abyss friends. In the words of Tool, "step into my shadow, come on out the other side." The princes and princesses of lies are just that, liers. The King of lies, is God, but unlike the infernal ones, God wants you to know evil is a lie (if it/he/she/neither/all didn't, we wouldn't and couldn't be having the conversation).
Just as well, dissolution into God, is a lie. The soul is immortal, what is there to dissolve into, when one already is what one wishes to be dissolved into?
But of course the ultimate rule for any conscious entity, is do what thou will. Just be prepared for the resulting "accept full responsibility for your actions." To do anything less, is to not just be ignorant, but live in all probability quite painfully. Being as though the mythical Adam and Eve, ate from the tree of knowlege of good and evil, in reality, the majority of us, if not all of us, are innocent, not even ignorant as ignorant implies ignoring what you know, when it comes to alot of "what is the best decision," questions in life, mercy, that is forgiveness is a good pratice to practice upon oneself, as well as others. After all, we were all thrown into this naked, screaming, and knowing not a thing.
This is as always just my own opinions based on my own experiences and learning.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
A war on the others
Original post: ChaosTech
Also as far as worrying about thinking your way to a lower level, this is silly. It's true that in the astral thoughts are alot more powerful, as the astral is more fluidic, and less solidic like here on the physical. Will is the power behind thoughts though, just how thoughts in magick/psi do nothing without will to give them power, the same is true of astral projection. In magick/psi (including OBEs), intent is everything.
Also as far as worrying about thinking your way to a lower level, this is silly. It's true that in the astral thoughts are alot more powerful, as the astral is more fluidic, and less solidic like here on the physical. Will is the power behind thoughts though, just how thoughts in magick/psi do nothing without will to give them power, the same is true of astral projection. In magick/psi (including OBEs), intent is everything.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
A war on the others
Original post: ages0ne
[QUOTE=ChaosTech]Here is a question to anyone reading this. Why did the infinate oneness ever create finateness (i.e. the illusion of seperation, i.e. creation)?[/QUOTE]
IMO, being bored is a very good answer. But, how can 0ne even begin to fathom what the infinite truly is? What I'm getting at is 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 etc. can very well go on forever, but where does 0ne begin counting from? After all, 1 can be divided an infinte number of times as well. So is there even room for a begining an end in the realm of 1nfinite 0neness?
[QUOTE=ChaosTech]Here is a question to anyone reading this. Why did the infinate oneness ever create finateness (i.e. the illusion of seperation, i.e. creation)?[/QUOTE]
IMO, being bored is a very good answer. But, how can 0ne even begin to fathom what the infinite truly is? What I'm getting at is 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 etc. can very well go on forever, but where does 0ne begin counting from? After all, 1 can be divided an infinte number of times as well. So is there even room for a begining an end in the realm of 1nfinite 0neness?
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
A war on the others
Original post: Amhas
There are such things as evil entities, but try to work with them. It may prove beneficial. Having another friend never hurt anyone.
There are such things as evil entities, but try to work with them. It may prove beneficial. Having another friend never hurt anyone.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
A war on the others
Original post: ChaosTech
*grins* Only in an illusion of finiteness of the infiniteness.
So is there even room for a begining an end in the realm of 1nfinite 0neness?
*grins* Only in an illusion of finiteness of the infiniteness.