The Astral cord...

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Original post: sleepyfrog

Hi, I need to get to the bottom of somthing urgently.
Concerning the Astral cord which binds the astral body to the physical during Astral Projection. There are many opinions surrounding this issue, does the cutting of the cord cause death, does the astral body become lost or is the astral cord unecessary alltogether...
Having accidently Astral Projected a while ago have been practicing meditation teqniques for a time and keep a dream journal and am close to projecting at will. However, this issue over the astral cord concerns me, in search of information i found this chapter in the bible:

ECC:12,6
Or even the silver cord be loosed or the golden bowl be
broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain or the wheel
be broken at the cistern. Then shall the dust retern to the earth as it was
and the spirit shall return unto god who gave it.


I read a message on this forum about death on cutting and it seems the topic is still open to debate, I personally need to be more convinced that should somone cut the cord or should i cut my own cord i will be ok. there seems to be alot of people who think it causes death, and if there is any chance of this i'd rather not Project atall...


can anyone throw more light on this subject.


thanks!

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Original post: Diggit

.... not necesairly grants death.

But cutting the cord seperates your connection to your body. you might not find your body again, you might rather stay astral for ever, and if i'm not mistaken the cord is also the reason why you can just snap back into your body if something nasty is coming for you or is happening.

So may I suggest not to cut it?

Then again, without it you'll be free, you'll be able to go even farther away from the earth spheres. But then again why would you wanne do that? It not exactly safe beyond

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Original post: darkshadow

:twisted: From what I've heard the astral cord is very tough and is not cut easily. The only way the astral cord can be cut is if your physical body dies, it doesn't matter if your projecting or not. :twisted:

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Original post: sleepyfrog

I wouldnt cut my cord intentionaly, im more worried i might cut it accidentaly, like with an imaginary pair of scissors or somthing cos im thinking about it too much, then go...oops!
AP seems amazing and i know i could do it but this whole town is full of demons then darkshadow posts here and the whole thing seems to dangerous...
what are the most important things to look out for? i somtimes wish i'd never began researching this, i reeeealy understand the beauty of ignorance. getting lost in the Astral world sounds soo bad, i'v got unfinished buisness in the physical world...

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Original post: Diggit

ow don't worry bout that. Ya won't cut it accedently.

Anyway, there isn't much to fear out there. And if ya get in trouble, just think: i'm back in my body and you will be(the snapping back I told ya)

but since ya asked, there's vampires(psychic) there not that dangerous, I douth they'll actually kill you but...
er.. maybe a leech or something? there pretty much same as a vampire but not sentient. So there not dangerous at all.(mind you I do not know if these names are universal, I just picked em cause they seemed apropiate)

Now in theory you could run into a demon or an angel or something with power. But changes of that happening are extreemly small. And if it does happen just snap back into your body.

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Original post: sleepyfrog

ok, one more thing...what about black holes? in space i mean...

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Original post: darkshadow

[QUOTE=sleepyfrog]ok, one more thing...what about black holes? in space i mean...[/QUOTE]
:twisted: Well sleepyfrog I don't think you have to worry about black holes. I don't think that they will affect your astral body but I don't know for sure. Maybe there is someone here who has projected close to a black hole that could give you a little bit of insight. Sorry I couldn't help more but I've only projected once before and it was for just a few seconds. I never made it out of my house. :twisted:

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Original post: Samhain

There seems to be a lot of confusion about the subject of astral projection, probably because it's used to refer to both etheric projection and the practice referred to by some occultists as rising on the planes.

If you project your etheric body, it can be injured, which will affect your physical body. If your etheric body is severed from your physical body, you die. However, when you're rising on the planes, I believe that only your mind is travelling, and you're less likely to run into the kind of trouble that can affect your physical body. You can run into problems that could affect your sanity, especially if you're unbalanced to begin with. And if for some reason you never found your way home to your physical body, I imagine that your body would become an empty shell.

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Original post: Diggit

actually I never did see a black hole....

as for not getting injured, that's not really true. I woken up with wounds when I traveled the plains.
(not to scare ya, was my own dumb fault, was to curious.)

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Original post: sleepyfrog

is this Astral Projetion or somthing else...

i was liying on my bed with my arms by my side staring at the celing. a while passed and i felt really relaxed, then i tried to move my arms and they felt really heavy. i brought them up close enough to see them and they werent my physical arms atall, they were sort of white transparent. my real arms were still by my side. I was still in my room and it looked exactly as real life, the situation un-nerved me so i woke myself up...

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Original post: Samhain

[QUOTE=sleepyfrog]is this Astral Projetion or somthing else...

i was liying on my bed with my arms by my side staring at the celing. a while passed and i felt really relaxed, then i tried to move my arms and they felt really heavy. i brought them up close enough to see them and they werent my physical arms atall, they were sort of white transparent. my real arms were still by my side. I was still in my room and it looked exactly as real life, the situation un-nerved me so i woke myself up...[/QUOTE]
You were projecting your etheric body. That's the kind of "astral travel" where it's important to remain linked to your physical body. But the connection doesn't get severed very easily unless you stay out a really long time or something actually cuts the link, which doesn't happen to often.

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Original post: perpetualsound

Now in theory you could run into a demon or an angel or something with power. But changes of that happening are extreemly small. And if it does happen just snap back into your body.

What if you're actually seeking out these beings? Has anyone come into contact with something with a greater power - either an angel or a demon? And if so, what have they learned from the experience?

Just to make this something like on-topic... you mustn't think of the astral cord as a limiter - it's possible to project to the edges of reality and beyond, to the limits of time.

I certainly don't advocate this to anyone else, but when I come into contact with something dangerous or strange I push myself closer to it - not always to my advantage. One experience with definite evil that I have encountered on more than one occasion is in my own house - I try to enter a certain room in my projected form, and once in there I can't escape. It's never been quite clear to me how I've got out of there, but each time I remember real fear. This is something I don't claim to understand, but I do want to know more, so in my projections I keep going in there. Maybe I'll find out eventually why the presences are there in that room - my standard cleansing and banishing ceremonies haven't worked on it; there are things at work there that are above human comprehension. I do know that that room is over the top of a lay line, and my cat will never enter it; neither would my dog while she was alive. Whatever's in there it's beyond my ken. If you want to experience this, seek me out. My projected form is a black shrew.

Arekandru

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Original post: Diggit

er, just go in and ask?

then you'll know.

and why would you wanne meet something that would eat you? your weird

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Original post: siggy79

Hi I would just like to say I had exactly the same thing happen to me. I thought my arms were by my head (but they were by my side)and I lifted them up they weren't my hands. They were my hands but see-through (like the predator in that film) and I looked at the hard. I also lifted my legs up, they were half invisible but I could see my toes when I moved them. I then tried to get up and there was a rushing noise like a train. I got up but I was in a dream after that like astral projection not etheric.

Another time, before that I was half asleep and i tried to etheric project. I got the rushing sound like a train and I lifted myself up. I felt like a spark in my head and it was like a radio disconnecting or detuning and I felt really light and I knew I was out of my body. But when I opened my eyes there was a huge figure towering above me in my room with a skeleton like face in black but it was screaching so loud I couldn't look at it and I went straight back in my body. I vowed that I would never try it again. But I have done since, with not much success.

I have more success with astral projection though I have no cord- nor have I seen a cord. I have always been slightly worried that a spirit may inhabit my body while i'm not there but this has never happened nor do I worry about it when I'm projecting. My mum used to always come round to visit me in the mornings when I was asleep. Countless times a got out of bed and walked to answer the door only to realise halfway there I wasn't in my body and I couldn't open the door!

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Original post: micdeath

Black holes? yes I have went near one while I was "ethericly" projecting, and YES THEY DO AFFECT YOU! I have only travel into deep space about 18 or so times, I have seen about 3 taht were feeding and 1 that i NEARLY ran right into, and 6 others just idleing by. most of these black holes are near orions belt ( and when i say near i mean BILLIONS of miles near it). Btw doing these travles isn't like liek "2:00 am ok i travle to orion, 2:05 ok im bored lets go back" It took me ALL NIGHT just to get there back, closest i got was as close as seeing the sun teh size of a quater. Also for those who think, "NOTHING can go faster then teh speed of light" Guess what, yer wrong. the faster you go then teh speed of light, the more "laggy" events seem to appear. and for some reason a blueish cloudyish ringed aura appears around you, kind of weird, but it happens. whats also kool is lights thats goign away from you loosk like its laggying like hell, but teh lgiht that GOING to you seems to speed up real good. I have quit my deep space joyriding after i nearly ran right into a black hole. How could i tell it was a black hole? well for one, tehre was no light comming from it, and you'll see a weird light patterns, mostly looking liek it is getting blurred and warped, tahst how i usually stayed away from them, but this one, fk i decied to look to my left and WAM i felt this great heavy disturbance, i stopped and a few million miles ahead of me was sure enough a damn black hole, thank god i was just at the iside its rim of gravitational pull (didn't want to chance it by seeign if i could go in and see what was there, i've read my science books, i read the damn theroys, so i didnt' take a chance) thats when i turned around and hightailed it back home, sinc ethen i,ve just stayed near home when i did "etheric" projecting.

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Original post: lilacsky22

hello I would like to say that the cord is simply a belief, I have astral projected for ten years now and not once have I seen the cord, it is my beleif that we create the cord in order to feel safe as we travel on the astral realms, I do not think we need them, It is a theory it is not fact that we have a cord that we are attached to, also with vibrations many feel them, I have only felt them a few times, and they were illusions, which I have created due to reading about them for so long, I think we set up our saftey nets in our subconscious which is the cord and other things such as guides waiting for us on the other sides, I have yet to find proof that these things are real. but I think like I said that these things help us to feel safe and help us along our spiritual journeys, the astral is a complicated place since our subconscious interferes with it alot, I have noticed that my awareness has grown over the years in these states. So now I lay in my body and just observe the astral realms from there and also the physical effects of it, and I have reallized that vibrations are merely a self creation that helps us through the out of body stages, however it is not nessecary to go through the stages we can learn to skip them, but its like with sounds as well, they are an indication that we have entered a new state of awareness. So the mind creates these things in order for us to gain lucidity and further our ventures through consciousness,
just my thoughts...

lilac

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Original post: Kenaz

I agree wholeheartedly lilacsky22 with Lilacsky22. The whole "silver cord" ideaology is actually a mis-intepretation from a Bhuddist teaching, that somehow has crept into mainstream Western magickal practice as a Truth.

Frankly though, I don't see why people submit to such a belief. One cannot get 'stuck' doing Astral projection. One does not have to have a 'cord' leading back to your physical body. Personally I see Astral workings as less "Astral Projection" and more "Astral Downloading" as such. Think of it like a computer, surfing the internet. Your PC does not move. It does not 'fly out' into the internet and gather information. It stays where it is. The information is sent to it, not the other way around. You cannot get 'stuck' doing an Astral projection as you have not technically gone anywhere. This means that any beings you meet are ones that you yourself have 'downloaded' into your brain so to speak. If something speaks to your first and you don't like it, banish it out! Do the same as you would if someone tried inserting a virus or something to your PC. Just get rid of it, you should always be the first one to speak in an Astral encounter. And remember you cannot get 'stuck' for you only need to 'disconnect'.

The only reason people appear to get 'stuck' in an Astral experience is because thier belief traps them. They believe that they have a cord linking thier Astral self to thier physical body. They believe that something has trapped them, and so they react as if they were trapped. This is by no direct fault of the people, all they know is what they have been taught and have experienced. If they have experienced 'being trapped' before, the experience would seem very real to them and so, for them, it actually happened as they experienced it. This makes it more likely to happen again as thier belief mixes with paranoia and the fear of it happening again, somewhat of a nasty downward spiral that some people unfortunately get pulled into.

Many thanks, and safe Astralling!

Kenaz :p

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Original post: Acid09

Black holes are like roller costers! I came very close to one but it had the opposite affect of being a vaccum and instead sling shot me to an entirely different gallaxy. It was quite exilerating and felt cold as hell. But I think a black hole can be used to travel greater distances than you normally could with out one. Regardless of other people's interpretations, its all subjective anyways, I agree they do affect you, not dangerously though.

As far as the astral cord. I think the cord itself is your consiousness, metaphorically speaking since it really is up to you to believe one way or the other. That if you were to AP and get distracted in the mundane to where you awaken then your cord (consous connection to your astral vehicle) is severed, like someone slapping you in the face or attacking you. Finding that astral body is not impossible and you should seek it cause believe me it will seek you. The longer you go with out it the more junk it will collect (it's self with out mind and can't think to take care of itself) and the harder it will be to accomidate back into yourself and the more dangerous it can become as it can collect parasites since it can't protect itself. In most cases where you awaken while in the astral your mind will automatically return your astral self to you mundane self. I mean how often do wake up with your mind but not your body. Exactly.

If nothing else just remember its all in the head and yourself won't kill you off unless you shoot yourself or something. There are no guns on the astral planes. You will be safe.

Something I would like to address is soul fragmentation. I read reports of rape victims imagining themselves out of their body and away from the situation. This is trauma induced AP and it can have a mental/psychic drain on you if you don't seek to reconcile and deal in yourself and probably with proffessional help the problem at hand. But this is purely for your information since that doesn't seem to be the case here.

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Original post: K.A. Malik

As far as I've been able to tell the astral cord doesn't exist per se as a "thing" which can be "cut" at all. It is an insubstantial (insubstantial reletive to astral pseudomatter even) indicator of the fact that you are located in more than one place, and it disappears when there is no longer any spatial bilocation- when you die. Trying to kill you by "cutting" it is akin to trying to break your computer by covering the green power light with your hand.

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Original post: Löwegeist

[QUOTE=perpetualsound]What if you're actually seeking out these beings? Has anyone come into contact with something with a greater power - either an angel or a demon? And if so, what have they learned from the experience?
Arekandru[/QUOTE]
On the topic of "demons":

My last experience of astral travel involved a very "evil" presence. My few experiences (OBE, astral travel, etc) happened before I even knew about any of this stuff, and were all on accident.

I was laying in my bed one night with the lights on and apparently drifted off to sleep without knowing it (or halfway to sleep). I felt myself separating from my body but still attached (the cord is a relatively close analogy to the feeling but not perfect). If felt like I was in some sort of current, however, and that the connection was in danger of breaking. I also felt a huge fear of this happening, as if I knew it would mean death.

The scary part is that while all this was going on I felt a presence that could only be described as the greatest evil I have ever imagined. I didn't "see" it per se, but I felt that it was there and I could "feel" its form if that makes any sense. The shape had some similarities to the traditional winged demon that we imagine a lot, but it was more complicatd and had no real beginning and end to its form. It also "felt" black, again very hard to explain in words. It was almost as if it was ready to get me if I completely drifted away from my body, or maybe it was even trying to help the process along. When I was a little kid I thought I saw a similar figure at the foot of my bed one night, but did not feel the presence as strongly, it was more a vision.

During this I also turned back, saw my body and the arrangment of my bed sheets as well as my clock. I "snapped back" to reality and was instantly gasping for breath. I was choking on some some mucus from the chest cold I had and was not breathing. I coughed it up and then looked around after recovering my breath. The arrangement of the sheets, the pillow that had fallen to the floor, and the time on the clock were exactly like I saw it in the experience.

One theory I have is that this experience was triggered by my suffocation, rather than the other way around. It has been several years, and I am just now getting the courage to investigate astral travel and maybe try it on purpose. As far as I'm concerned there are "nasties" on the other side, just like there are in our physical world. I for one will not attempt to astral travel again until I learn more out protecting myself and my energy through mediation ahead of time.

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Original post: Qryztufre

Trying to kill you by "cutting" it is akin to trying to break your computer by covering the green power light with your hand.

Ok, I don't know what you're getting on about here but I just tried that and it don't work! *mutters*

As far as I've been able to tell the astral cord doesn't exist per se as a "thing" which can be "cut" at all. It is an insubstantial (insubstantial reletive to astral pseudomatter even) indicator of the fact that you are located in more than one place, and it disappears when there is no longer any spatial bilocation- when you die.

OK, now this I can agree with more or less...though, I do not know from experience so no one take this as FACT. I have read however that if the cord is cut while projecting you are flung back into the material body with enough force to make one ill...so I'm taking it that this process is not all that healthy.

Saddly I believe that the cut cord equalling death is brought about by the playability/compatibility issues with your friendly neighborhood RPG guilds...and IMHO it's a REAL pisser when a game changes something and that change get's trickled back to the Occult. Now don't get me wrong...it makes for a better game with this "rule" so that's not my gripe...it's the damn arm chairist that take the game and incorperate it back into the occult.

Either way, I'd suggest not getting it cut (death or not)....just in case. (and so no one goes off...I was joking about the green light thing )
Q

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Original post: Löwegeist

[QUOTE=Qryztufre]Ok, I don't know what you're getting on about here but I just tried that and it don't work! *mutters*

OK, now this I can agree with more or less...though, I do not know from experience so no one take this as FACT. I have read however that if the cord is cut while projecting you are flung back into the material body with enough force to make one ill...so I'm taking it that this process is not all that healthy.
Q[/QUOTE]
Please elaborate where you have heard or read this. That leads me to a new possible explaination for my exprience when I woke up (see my last post). Could the "cord" have been broken by the experience (the strong current) and then me suddenly waking up (it was almost like falling into my body, btw) caused my breathing to be interrupted?

It is a strong possibilty that the cord could have broken because the force was great and I felt like it was imminently about to break before "snapping" back into my body.

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Original post: Qryztufre

[QUOTE=Löwegeist]Please elaborate where you have heard or read this. That leads me to a new possible explaination for my exprience when I woke up (see my last post). Could the "cord" have been broken by the experience (the strong current) and then me suddenly waking up (it was almost like falling into my body, btw) caused my breathing to be interrupted?

It is a strong possibilty that the cord could have broken because the force was great and I felt like it was imminently about to break before "snapping" back into my body.[/QUOTE]
If it's not in "Far Journey's" (Monroe) then I don't know it's source. About a year ago I googled for AP and was a member of another Astral Forum...as such it was something I retained but was not important enough (to me) to site. Where ever it was, I retained some of it because it did remind me of my D&D days...and it (whatever I was reading) may have pulled from RPG sources as well...I've no way to know (as I've never had to deal with it).

Once while I was OOBE (similar?) I SHOT back into my body so hard I jumped upon awaking and was so startled that it took several moments to regain my breath...I do not know it it is related, but it may have been something similar.

Though, back to the actual Astral Cord, I'm still going with it NOT killing, because if this were the case then I feel there would be a LOT fewer magickians out there
Q

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Original post: K.A. Malik

RPGs, eh? Hmmm..... *Saws at a cord with a Githyanki Silver Sword* Almost... I think I... wait, nope. Damn.

I can't belive I forgot to mention this: The destruction of the astral body. My (meager) experience and most modern research into the mechanics of projection describes it as a process of reflecting or creating a body which travels around, not temporarily detatching your soul/spirit to fly around, leaving your unsentient body open for possession/molestation. A great amount of energy is investing in creating the body, which means you are going to want to get it back, but if it is destroyed completely it is only energy you are losing. If the silver cord is a real connection between your bodies, cutting it would just mean that you've lost your precious artificial energy body.

The reentry effect you (Q) described is whiplash. A large and near-instant change in your consciousness alone is very disorienting. Ever get startled up from a deep sleep and not remember who, what, or where you are for a measurable amount of time? A second cause would be energy loss. Having your astral body cut up and eaten before you return means you will return with less energy, and simply attempting to return to your body too fast can cause a messy reabsorbtion, leaving energy hanging around outside your body. Less energy = retroactively less lunch.

"Energy" and "Mental RAM" is interchangable depending on your cosmology.