Original post: NecroMage
I have been silent around these boards for a very long time, but I have decided to speak up once more. I was a fool and overestimated the level of most of these forum members, and only now do I feel that enough time has passed so that my return will not be plagued with ghosts from the past. I did not manage to say what I wanted in the proper words, but when you fail, it is good to try again. Let us forget the past and move on to the future
Now that we have that out of the way. I find it quite bothersome that people take magic so lightly. This is an art that is more serious and deadly than life itself. I look at this threads concerning astral experiments and mental sex; do people think this is some kind of game? Some seem to think that experimenting with leaving their body and twisting reality(ies) in various ways is allright, and yet I'm positive they would never experiment with what various household cleaners do to their body if ingested, although the former is far more dangerous.
I do not know almost anyone who looks at magic as it really is; something that is the larger part of life and reality. Thoughts?
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Original post: K.A. Malik
I, for one, find life works best when you treat it like a game and stop taking it so seriously. A wonderful attitude when it comes to snubbing reality.
Magic is exactly as serious and deadly as life itself, which isn't really saying much since life has everything both dangerous and harmless as well. Drinking household cleaners to see what it would be like would be akin to learning demonology then summoning and ordering every entity you can think of to possess you for the fun of it, but that metaphor does not apply to experimenting with any field of magic. You aren't courting ancient evils and the worst parts of your true self every time you step out of your body, and treating the entire field of occultism like an H-bomb ready to blow will get you nowhere fast.
There is magic to coincide with every part of life, from murder to hopscotch.
-Some reckless Discordian
I, for one, find life works best when you treat it like a game and stop taking it so seriously. A wonderful attitude when it comes to snubbing reality.
Magic is exactly as serious and deadly as life itself, which isn't really saying much since life has everything both dangerous and harmless as well. Drinking household cleaners to see what it would be like would be akin to learning demonology then summoning and ordering every entity you can think of to possess you for the fun of it, but that metaphor does not apply to experimenting with any field of magic. You aren't courting ancient evils and the worst parts of your true self every time you step out of your body, and treating the entire field of occultism like an H-bomb ready to blow will get you nowhere fast.
There is magic to coincide with every part of life, from murder to hopscotch.
-Some reckless Discordian
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Original post: Ludi
Of course it is a game.
Of course it is a game.
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Original post: Mmothra
Agreed, it is a game...and a very, very serious game. I suggest you explore the hindu concept of "lila" and consider for a moment that you just might be both player and game piece.
Agreed, it is a game...and a very, very serious game. I suggest you explore the hindu concept of "lila" and consider for a moment that you just might be both player and game piece.
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Original post: Ludi
Serious? Maybe, maybe not. What do you mean by "serious?"
Serious? Maybe, maybe not. What do you mean by "serious?"
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Original post: NecroMage
I do in fact agree that in a way it is a game. However, I only agree with that to the metaphorical extent. It is indeed very serious. There are things far worse than death in the multiverse and all of them are magical. Now, of course taking things lightly is a fairly useful philosophy, but not the best. The best would be to take all serious things seriously, but then accept fate as it comes. It is not wise to dwell or waste energy on anything, but taking things not as they are is just as foolish. One must percieve truly and accept it.
I do in fact agree that in a way it is a game. However, I only agree with that to the metaphorical extent. It is indeed very serious. There are things far worse than death in the multiverse and all of them are magical. Now, of course taking things lightly is a fairly useful philosophy, but not the best. The best would be to take all serious things seriously, but then accept fate as it comes. It is not wise to dwell or waste energy on anything, but taking things not as they are is just as foolish. One must percieve truly and accept it.
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Original post: Ludi
But, NecroMage, you're assuming that your view of things is "true." I don't personally accept that. You live in a serious world, I don't. The only time I get in trouble is when I take things seriously. If I get in trouble by not taking them seriously, you folks here at OF will be the first to know. I do my deity a disservice when I take things seriously. Tsk,tsk.
But, NecroMage, you're assuming that your view of things is "true." I don't personally accept that. You live in a serious world, I don't. The only time I get in trouble is when I take things seriously. If I get in trouble by not taking them seriously, you folks here at OF will be the first to know. I do my deity a disservice when I take things seriously. Tsk,tsk.
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Original post: Mmothra
Ludi, by serious I mean it is the only game there is...all others are a subset.
Ludi, by serious I mean it is the only game there is...all others are a subset.
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Original post: Wiseone
well i find that taking things serious takes away the fun out of things. i like to take things in a fun way and such. though being to serious, to me, can be an obstacle, for me anyway. i would think that it is different for everyone when it comes to magic.
well i dont know if i made any sense but that is how i feel on thisand i to see magick as a game that needs to be taken serrious somtimes.
well i find that taking things serious takes away the fun out of things. i like to take things in a fun way and such. though being to serious, to me, can be an obstacle, for me anyway. i would think that it is different for everyone when it comes to magic.
well i dont know if i made any sense but that is how i feel on thisand i to see magick as a game that needs to be taken serrious somtimes.
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Original post: Spacejack
Any time a person deals with powerful non-human things (astral stuff, demons, etc.), consequences enact themselves for the positive or negative. For me, life is not quite a game; that would suggest that at the end of it there is supposed to be some sort of "winner" and that doesn't seem to make much sense.
I agree with you when you say that magic is the larger part of life and reality, but I believe that it has existed long before us and knows how to take care of Itself.
Any time a person deals with powerful non-human things (astral stuff, demons, etc.), consequences enact themselves for the positive or negative. For me, life is not quite a game; that would suggest that at the end of it there is supposed to be some sort of "winner" and that doesn't seem to make much sense.
I agree with you when you say that magic is the larger part of life and reality, but I believe that it has existed long before us and knows how to take care of Itself.
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Original post: Mmothra
[QUOTE=Spacejack]Any time a person deals with powerful non-human things (astral stuff, demons, etc.), consequences enact themselves for the positive or negative. For me, life is not quite a game; that would suggest that at the end of it there is supposed to be some sort of "winner" and that doesn't seem to make much sense.
I agree with you when you say that magic is the larger part of life and reality, but I believe that it has existed long before us and knows how to take care of Itself.[/QUOTE]
Not all games are competitive and, if one sees dualisms as illusory (as I do), the concept of "winners" and "losers" evaporates.
Of course, your mileage may vary.
[QUOTE=Spacejack]Any time a person deals with powerful non-human things (astral stuff, demons, etc.), consequences enact themselves for the positive or negative. For me, life is not quite a game; that would suggest that at the end of it there is supposed to be some sort of "winner" and that doesn't seem to make much sense.
I agree with you when you say that magic is the larger part of life and reality, but I believe that it has existed long before us and knows how to take care of Itself.[/QUOTE]
Not all games are competitive and, if one sees dualisms as illusory (as I do), the concept of "winners" and "losers" evaporates.
Of course, your mileage may vary.
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Original post: die before death
You stink of fear of the Unknown.
Sure, its justified fear at times, but thats just how I like it.
Even so, many people resonate with different things for different intended results.
Whats wrong with that?
If indeed many people are going astray in your book, let them fail, say I told you so, and offer something constructive. But Im pretty sure telling them to fear their smiles and curiousities isn't going to be well recieved, eh hey its worth a shot though.
Havent you ever experimented in being silly with yourself, nevermind magic?
Take The Principia Discordia and LSD and a rubber ducky, and call someone else in the morning.
You stink of fear of the Unknown.
Sure, its justified fear at times, but thats just how I like it.
Even so, many people resonate with different things for different intended results.
Whats wrong with that?
If indeed many people are going astray in your book, let them fail, say I told you so, and offer something constructive. But Im pretty sure telling them to fear their smiles and curiousities isn't going to be well recieved, eh hey its worth a shot though.
Havent you ever experimented in being silly with yourself, nevermind magic?
Take The Principia Discordia and LSD and a rubber ducky, and call someone else in the morning.
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Original post: Lucid
:-D I love it, and I'm taking it.
Always a good idea to start with an insult, when you're trying to get people to listen.NecroMage wrote:I was a fool and overestimated the level of most of these forum members,
Take The Principia Discordia and LSD and a rubber ducky, and call someone else in the morning.
:-D I love it, and I'm taking it.
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Original post: Ludi
game 1. an amusement or pastime
I agree.Not all games are competitive
game 1. an amusement or pastime
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Original post: Ceriel Nosforit
Assumption: Duality is an universal principle. Therefore life and death are the same thing.
If I fear death (I mean in this case annihilation.), I fear life. If I fear life I can never truly live, and I am therefore dead. However, if I do not fear death I don't fear life either, and I am truly fearless.
I don't drink drain-cleaner because there is no doubt in my mind that it won't do me any good. However, I explore the astral because I have no idea what is out there. Or in here, depending on your perspective.
...That is if you want either perspective, rather than just experiencing it as part of your reality.
Assumption: Duality is an universal principle. Therefore life and death are the same thing.
If I fear death (I mean in this case annihilation.), I fear life. If I fear life I can never truly live, and I am therefore dead. However, if I do not fear death I don't fear life either, and I am truly fearless.
I don't drink drain-cleaner because there is no doubt in my mind that it won't do me any good. However, I explore the astral because I have no idea what is out there. Or in here, depending on your perspective.
...That is if you want either perspective, rather than just experiencing it as part of your reality.
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Original post: NecroMage
Allow me to make a slight clarification.
I was not attempting to create a discussion of a philosophy of life and magic. I was intending to make a point about how careless beginner magicians and unfortunately enough most magicians in general are. It does not matter if life/magic is serious or if it is a game, it still has consequences, half of which are bad. These should be avoided, some at any cost. Many magicians fail horribly and end up in a mess that takes several eternities to sort out, and they usually do not return to a level anywhere near to what they started out as.
It was said that I insulted the members of this forum. This is not true at all. I said that I over-estimated the level of most of the members and this is a fact. You cannot argue that it is not a fact because you did not know how I estimated their level in the first place. Specific to the case, I assumed everyone would understand when I spoke about 'rigid body' and 'non-human form'. This was obviously no-where near what happend. Some thought I was speaking physically, most thought I was somehow insane. Of course, it was not prudent of me to speak without assessing my audience. I did not manage to get my point accross at all. However, that is all in the past and buried, so let us move on.
It bothers me somewhat that so many people, with such potential, waste themselves early on by trying some foolish experiment that goes horribly wrong, but perhaps I am a bit too compassionate, after all, it's their lives/existence that they are ruining.
Allow me to make a slight clarification.
I was not attempting to create a discussion of a philosophy of life and magic. I was intending to make a point about how careless beginner magicians and unfortunately enough most magicians in general are. It does not matter if life/magic is serious or if it is a game, it still has consequences, half of which are bad. These should be avoided, some at any cost. Many magicians fail horribly and end up in a mess that takes several eternities to sort out, and they usually do not return to a level anywhere near to what they started out as.
It was said that I insulted the members of this forum. This is not true at all. I said that I over-estimated the level of most of the members and this is a fact. You cannot argue that it is not a fact because you did not know how I estimated their level in the first place. Specific to the case, I assumed everyone would understand when I spoke about 'rigid body' and 'non-human form'. This was obviously no-where near what happend. Some thought I was speaking physically, most thought I was somehow insane. Of course, it was not prudent of me to speak without assessing my audience. I did not manage to get my point accross at all. However, that is all in the past and buried, so let us move on.
It bothers me somewhat that so many people, with such potential, waste themselves early on by trying some foolish experiment that goes horribly wrong, but perhaps I am a bit too compassionate, after all, it's their lives/existence that they are ruining.
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Original post: die before death
Sounds to me like you have had a problem with articulation, with this topic, and the story you just told.
What is alienating you is your own condescension. Take the time to understand that it doesnt automatically mean individuals are on one level or the next simply because they dont readily grasp a concept in a field that is riddled with a huge variety of nomanclature. Nor does it mean that people are lower than you because they are taking a different path, which may have its nessesary bumps and bruises in order to grow, or to sometimes be death defiant.
Why aren't these threads which you detest rampant full of people who have horror stories?
I may be being bold, but it sounds to me as if you are building resentment for what you really do not understand, and that hurts, since you see yourself as understanding quite a lot as it is.
As it is you have brushed off all of the replies in this topic as not the intended answer, or reitteration you were seeking out, so they are simply invalid approaches.
For someone who claims to understand that magic has an unconceivable magnitude, wouldn't it make sense to you that philosophy and magic are crucial to an argument about how one goes about it?
Half of the consequences of magic is bad you say, but isnt the other half still positive then?
Isn't that just like anything in life?
I don't disagree with you completely, since I do know of cases of people dabbling where they shouldn't and messing up their heads. Its good to raise awareness about how magic is a gradual study and process, but some people dont go that route and are either unscathed, or somehow better for it. Don't pretend to know everyones hand before they play it.
Anyways, in my opinion, most of a magicians failure is based on ones inability to adapt to different mental, metaphysical environments, or realities. Those kinds of rigid people, if never touched by magic in their life, are probably schedualed for a mental breakdown by their mid-40s anyhow. So fuck em' anyhow.
Plus, nobody sticks their nose into Cthulus tentacles without knowing they are about to go off the deep end. (No intentional water related puns folks.)
Sounds to me like you have had a problem with articulation, with this topic, and the story you just told.
What is alienating you is your own condescension. Take the time to understand that it doesnt automatically mean individuals are on one level or the next simply because they dont readily grasp a concept in a field that is riddled with a huge variety of nomanclature. Nor does it mean that people are lower than you because they are taking a different path, which may have its nessesary bumps and bruises in order to grow, or to sometimes be death defiant.
Why aren't these threads which you detest rampant full of people who have horror stories?
I may be being bold, but it sounds to me as if you are building resentment for what you really do not understand, and that hurts, since you see yourself as understanding quite a lot as it is.
As it is you have brushed off all of the replies in this topic as not the intended answer, or reitteration you were seeking out, so they are simply invalid approaches.
For someone who claims to understand that magic has an unconceivable magnitude, wouldn't it make sense to you that philosophy and magic are crucial to an argument about how one goes about it?
Half of the consequences of magic is bad you say, but isnt the other half still positive then?
Isn't that just like anything in life?
I don't disagree with you completely, since I do know of cases of people dabbling where they shouldn't and messing up their heads. Its good to raise awareness about how magic is a gradual study and process, but some people dont go that route and are either unscathed, or somehow better for it. Don't pretend to know everyones hand before they play it.
Anyways, in my opinion, most of a magicians failure is based on ones inability to adapt to different mental, metaphysical environments, or realities. Those kinds of rigid people, if never touched by magic in their life, are probably schedualed for a mental breakdown by their mid-40s anyhow. So fuck em' anyhow.
Plus, nobody sticks their nose into Cthulus tentacles without knowing they are about to go off the deep end. (No intentional water related puns folks.)
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Original post: Lucid
Hate to break it to you, but this is a discussion forum.
Actually, most weren't complaining about your rigid body structure, or the fact that you're a half-demon half-human demon hunter. Most were upset that you decided to claim your reality as the one true reality, and anyone who tried to give their own opinion was met with insults to their intelligence and work.
Basicly, what you were saying is that you overestimated us by thinking we were on the same level of understanding as yourself. You now see that we are not even close to your level of magickal knowledge. You're right. That's not insulting at all. :roll:NecroMage wrote: It was said that I insulted the members of this forum. This is not true at all. I said that I over-estimated the level of most of the members and this is a fact. You cannot argue that it is not a fact because you did not know how I estimated their level in the first place.
I was not attempting to create a discussion of a philosophy of life and magic. I was intending to make a point about how careless beginner magicians and unfortunately enough most magicians in general are.
Hate to break it to you, but this is a discussion forum.
I assumed everyone would understand when I spoke about 'rigid body' and 'non-human form'. This was obviously no-where near what happend. Some thought I was speaking physically, most thought I was somehow insane.
Actually, most weren't complaining about your rigid body structure, or the fact that you're a half-demon half-human demon hunter. Most were upset that you decided to claim your reality as the one true reality, and anyone who tried to give their own opinion was met with insults to their intelligence and work.
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Original post: Rin Daemoko
You sound very pessimistic. Have you considered that perhaps the problem isn't the carelessness of other magicins, but rather your own paranoia?
Actually, what you said was something I did find offensive, so it was quite insulting to me.
Foolish experiments. Well, what would have us do, then? If these experiments are foolish and wrong, and bad, and a waste of time, then what should we invest our time and energy in. Hmm?
NecroMage wrote:I was not attempting to create a discussion of a philosophy of life and magic. I was intending to make a point about how careless beginner magicians and unfortunately enough most magicians in general are. It does not matter if life/magic is serious or if it is a game, it still has consequences, half of which are bad. These should be avoided, some at any cost. Many magicians fail horribly and end up in a mess that takes several eternities to sort out, and they usually do not return to a level anywhere near to what they started out as.
You sound very pessimistic. Have you considered that perhaps the problem isn't the carelessness of other magicins, but rather your own paranoia?
It was said that I insulted the members of this forum. This is not true at all. I said that I over-estimated the level of most of the members and this is a fact. You cannot argue that it is not a fact because you did not know how I estimated their level in the first place. Specific to the case, I assumed everyone would understand when I spoke about 'rigid body' and 'non-human form'. This was obviously no-where near what happend. Some thought I was speaking physically, most thought I was somehow insane. Of course, it was not prudent of me to speak without assessing my audience. I did not manage to get my point accross at all. However, that is all in the past and buried, so let us move on.
Actually, what you said was something I did find offensive, so it was quite insulting to me.
It bothers me somewhat that so many people, with such potential, waste themselves early on by trying some foolish experiment that goes horribly wrong, but perhaps I am a bit too compassionate, after all, it's their lives/existence that they are ruining.
Foolish experiments. Well, what would have us do, then? If these experiments are foolish and wrong, and bad, and a waste of time, then what should we invest our time and energy in. Hmm?
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Original post: p4r4norm4
my opinion on this subject is that indeed there are alot of people that get themselves into something that they do not completely understand, or i should i say they did not do their homework on the specific subject; whatever that might be..
which alot of times it doesn't come out good.. or nothing will happen.. but i must say a few times the person does understand alot better whats going on by themselves (six sense, or however you want to call it..)
i guess that the majority of these people without proper knowledge is the reason due to the fact that they have nobody that can guide them.. which alot of people i know are on a good track and probably also alot of you guys are also selftaught too..
what i think is that anybody interested in this field shouldn't treat it lightly cause simply you never know the "side-effects" that may occur from your actions..
if somebody is interested in a specific subject, should do his/hers research on the topic and i don't mean just to read one article and think they know something about whatever they're trying to do.. they should read as much as possible and then gradually keep what feels right for themselves and create their own techniques and ideas/philosophies on the area of interest; cause nobody is the same, everybody is unique and think differently.. something that might work for somebody, might not work for somebody else cause they might think that it's silly..
magic is a way of life.. and like in life you have to experiment to learn, the same i believe applies for magic..
can you guys remember the first time you had sex..?
can you guys remember the first time you managed to do magic..?
the excitement you had of tasting something new..
the initiation in a new area of life..
you can read all you want to have the basis of something but if you don't experiment and practice; it'll get you nowhere..
just my thoughts on this..
my opinion on this subject is that indeed there are alot of people that get themselves into something that they do not completely understand, or i should i say they did not do their homework on the specific subject; whatever that might be..
which alot of times it doesn't come out good.. or nothing will happen.. but i must say a few times the person does understand alot better whats going on by themselves (six sense, or however you want to call it..)
i guess that the majority of these people without proper knowledge is the reason due to the fact that they have nobody that can guide them.. which alot of people i know are on a good track and probably also alot of you guys are also selftaught too..
what i think is that anybody interested in this field shouldn't treat it lightly cause simply you never know the "side-effects" that may occur from your actions..
if somebody is interested in a specific subject, should do his/hers research on the topic and i don't mean just to read one article and think they know something about whatever they're trying to do.. they should read as much as possible and then gradually keep what feels right for themselves and create their own techniques and ideas/philosophies on the area of interest; cause nobody is the same, everybody is unique and think differently.. something that might work for somebody, might not work for somebody else cause they might think that it's silly..
magic is a way of life.. and like in life you have to experiment to learn, the same i believe applies for magic..
can you guys remember the first time you had sex..?
can you guys remember the first time you managed to do magic..?
the excitement you had of tasting something new..
the initiation in a new area of life..
you can read all you want to have the basis of something but if you don't experiment and practice; it'll get you nowhere..
just my thoughts on this..
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Original post: NecroMage
There seems to be a few things I should explain more clearly. First of all, I do not fear the unknown at all, but I have seen some things that I would never want to experience. I have seen what so called demons do to people, and I would not wish that fate for almost anyone, particularly anyone on this forum. If I have offended anyone, I apoligize, in truth I wish you all well, you are all much more open than everyone else. To be completely honest, no one who has so far replied has made any serious mistake as far as being careless or reckless. At least as far as I can tell.
My rigidity of mind frame or knowledge comes directly from sorcery. As sorcerers, we learn to see things as they really are, their essence, and thus are always right, unless thier feelings or thoughts interfere, which can happen. Whenever I present something as a fact, either I am right because I see it, or I am wrong, because my sight is interefered by my thoughts or feelings, and if the latter is the case (or so you think) then please let me know and I shall double-check.
I do not insult anyone on purpose by saying they are on a lower level. This is true if they cannot understand me, that in a particular subject, at a particular time, and a particular subset of the subject, they are on a lower level. This does not mean anyone is less intelligent or lesser magicians than me at all, just that they are not on the same level as I in that particular area.
There seems to be a few things I should explain more clearly. First of all, I do not fear the unknown at all, but I have seen some things that I would never want to experience. I have seen what so called demons do to people, and I would not wish that fate for almost anyone, particularly anyone on this forum. If I have offended anyone, I apoligize, in truth I wish you all well, you are all much more open than everyone else. To be completely honest, no one who has so far replied has made any serious mistake as far as being careless or reckless. At least as far as I can tell.
My rigidity of mind frame or knowledge comes directly from sorcery. As sorcerers, we learn to see things as they really are, their essence, and thus are always right, unless thier feelings or thoughts interfere, which can happen. Whenever I present something as a fact, either I am right because I see it, or I am wrong, because my sight is interefered by my thoughts or feelings, and if the latter is the case (or so you think) then please let me know and I shall double-check.
I do not insult anyone on purpose by saying they are on a lower level. This is true if they cannot understand me, that in a particular subject, at a particular time, and a particular subset of the subject, they are on a lower level. This does not mean anyone is less intelligent or lesser magicians than me at all, just that they are not on the same level as I in that particular area.
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Original post: die before death
[QUOTE=NecroMage] As sorcerers, we learn to see things as they really are, their essence, and thus are always right, [/QUOTE]
Now thats treading some very dangerous territory.
a few things,
quoting old grandaddy Gurdjieff;
"Knowledge by itself does not give understanding. â?¦ Understanding depends upon the relation of knowledge to being."
and,
The true mark of any magician, in any school, is a sense of humor.
And you are pretty damn dry.
Interesting now that I view you as exactly the kind of person you were trying to speak against. Hmmmmmmmmm....
[QUOTE=NecroMage] As sorcerers, we learn to see things as they really are, their essence, and thus are always right, [/QUOTE]
Now thats treading some very dangerous territory.
a few things,
quoting old grandaddy Gurdjieff;
"Knowledge by itself does not give understanding. â?¦ Understanding depends upon the relation of knowledge to being."
and,
The true mark of any magician, in any school, is a sense of humor.
And you are pretty damn dry.
Interesting now that I view you as exactly the kind of person you were trying to speak against. Hmmmmmmmmm....
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Occult Forum Archive
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This Not A Game
Original post: Spes
Uhm levels ... AD&D?;)
Anyways my viewpoint is that magic might be considered serious and hard subject as long as you think there are rules and limits. Many think differently and that's their freedom. We all have unique approach to this matter and doesn't it make it all wonderful? Wouldn't it be real dull if everyone is afraid to take next step in exploration of unknowns?
For me there ain't no limits but I don't take everything lightly either. I don't laugh at things I haven't studied simply because they sound so odd but I don't avoid things simply because someone says it's A or B. But there is magic and magic you know.
Uhm levels ... AD&D?;)
Anyways my viewpoint is that magic might be considered serious and hard subject as long as you think there are rules and limits. Many think differently and that's their freedom. We all have unique approach to this matter and doesn't it make it all wonderful? Wouldn't it be real dull if everyone is afraid to take next step in exploration of unknowns?
For me there ain't no limits but I don't take everything lightly either. I don't laugh at things I haven't studied simply because they sound so odd but I don't avoid things simply because someone says it's A or B. But there is magic and magic you know.
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This Not A Game
Original post: Rin Daemoko
Well, first off, I must thank you, NecroMage, for being so patient and willing to explain and clarify yourself. You have demonstrated a self-discipline which is refreshing to see and admirable. I am grateful that you decided to not leave OF altogether.
Alright, well the apology is accepted. Easily, since you were not intending to insult anyone who has thus far posted in this thread.
This may well be true, but how do you know that you are correct? Reality is a tricky thing, and unless you happen to be a Buddha or an Annointed, then seeing things exactly as they are is going to take some doing. My first instinct is to ask you to prove your argument in an essaic manner, however I'm sure that would take far too much time for you to write, and far too much time for us to read (though I'm sure many are willing to read such work).
Do you have a set of questions against with you are able to verfiy what you think or see as being truthful? I find that when I come into a new probability, I find myself asking a set of questions which are geared at determining if this new probability is viable or accurate. It helps to keep me from slipping into delusive thinking which some on this forum have been known to succumb to every now and then.
Ah, now it makes sense. "Lower" doesn't mean less able, or less intelligent, it is simply meant to imply a "difference." This is understandable now that you have explained it. Thank you kindly.
Alright, so now that we have these things out of the way, please allow me to ask another question. If magicians are being reckless, and magicks are not being taken seriously, what do you propose we do? How do you propose we react? In that matter, if nothing great is every achieved without risk, when is risk acceptable? To what degree should we experiment?
I suppose you may have asked at one point in time: is progress worth the risk? This is indeed the question which everyone asks (and usually answers) for themself. I personally feel that magickal progress is worth a certain amount of risk. What are your thoughts on this, and the other questions I posed?
NecroMage wrote:There seems to be a few things I should explain more clearly.
Well, first off, I must thank you, NecroMage, for being so patient and willing to explain and clarify yourself. You have demonstrated a self-discipline which is refreshing to see and admirable. I am grateful that you decided to not leave OF altogether.
If I have offended anyone, I apoligize, in truth I wish you all well, you are all much more open than everyone else. To be completely honest, no one who has so far replied has made any serious mistake as far as being careless or reckless. At least as far as I can tell.
Alright, well the apology is accepted. Easily, since you were not intending to insult anyone who has thus far posted in this thread.
My rigidity of mind frame or knowledge comes directly from sorcery. As sorcerers, we learn to see things as they really are, their essence, and thus are always right, unless thier feelings or thoughts interfere, which can happen. Whenever I present something as a fact, either I am right because I see it, or I am wrong, because my sight is interefered by my thoughts or feelings, and if the latter is the case (or so you think) then please let me know and I shall double-check.
This may well be true, but how do you know that you are correct? Reality is a tricky thing, and unless you happen to be a Buddha or an Annointed, then seeing things exactly as they are is going to take some doing. My first instinct is to ask you to prove your argument in an essaic manner, however I'm sure that would take far too much time for you to write, and far too much time for us to read (though I'm sure many are willing to read such work).
Do you have a set of questions against with you are able to verfiy what you think or see as being truthful? I find that when I come into a new probability, I find myself asking a set of questions which are geared at determining if this new probability is viable or accurate. It helps to keep me from slipping into delusive thinking which some on this forum have been known to succumb to every now and then.
I do not insult anyone on purpose by saying they are on a lower level. This is true if they cannot understand me, that in a particular subject, at a particular time, and a particular subset of the subject, they are on a lower level. This does not mean anyone is less intelligent or lesser magicians than me at all, just that they are not on the same level as I in that particular area.
Ah, now it makes sense. "Lower" doesn't mean less able, or less intelligent, it is simply meant to imply a "difference." This is understandable now that you have explained it. Thank you kindly.
Alright, so now that we have these things out of the way, please allow me to ask another question. If magicians are being reckless, and magicks are not being taken seriously, what do you propose we do? How do you propose we react? In that matter, if nothing great is every achieved without risk, when is risk acceptable? To what degree should we experiment?
I suppose you may have asked at one point in time: is progress worth the risk? This is indeed the question which everyone asks (and usually answers) for themself. I personally feel that magickal progress is worth a certain amount of risk. What are your thoughts on this, and the other questions I posed?
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Original post: Ludi
We could ask you questions about your experiences so that we too could have an idea of the "dangers" involved in magic, but I suspect your answers would be so unclear that it would be no help whatsoever. You say you are always right, or at least, I get the strong impression you believe you are always right, and that you somehow know "the truth" about magic. That your personal experiences, whatever they are, somehow reflect the true reality for everyone. How do you know that? How do you know that what you experience is the objective truth? Can you demonstrate it to be true in any way whatsoever?
No, what this means, NecroMage, is that you are incapable of making yourself understood. You are, as far as I can tell, virtually incapable of communicating with others, at least in this venue. Nor, as far as I can tell from the way you present yourself, are you at all interested in trying to communicate clearly.This is true if they cannot understand me, that in a particular subject, at a particular time, and a particular subset of the subject, they are on a lower level.
We could ask you questions about your experiences so that we too could have an idea of the "dangers" involved in magic, but I suspect your answers would be so unclear that it would be no help whatsoever. You say you are always right, or at least, I get the strong impression you believe you are always right, and that you somehow know "the truth" about magic. That your personal experiences, whatever they are, somehow reflect the true reality for everyone. How do you know that? How do you know that what you experience is the objective truth? Can you demonstrate it to be true in any way whatsoever?