Magick & Psionics

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Magick & Psionics

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Original post: Genostar

Hey all,

Alright, I have a relatively personal question involving my spiritual path that I really think ya'll could help out with, if you'll bear with me for a bit.

I come from a Ceremonial Magick background, but recently left it and explored Psionics, which I've also come to love. Now, I'm at a place in my life where I'd like to not choose between those two general paths, but rather incorporate them into a path unique to my own goals, needs, and talents.

Here's the specific problem. I'm trying to marshal my time, because the last time I tried too many things too fast, I burned out and ended up dropping magick and the occult altogether. I was such a wreck from it that I knew I had to go back, because in the occult--in either magick or psionics--I feel more like myself than I ever have in anything else. That being said, my current goal in magick is to begin preparations for evocation and to eventually evoke a spirit, while my current goal in psionics is simply to work on opening my chakras and work on grounding/centering and drawing energy daily, and continue practicing my psionic skills sporadically.

Now, I'm the kind of person who does really well with daily routine: once I get on the ball, I can typically stay on the regimen without fail and I also enjoy it. So what I currently do for my daily routine is to split up magick and psionics: I do chakra and energy work (psi) in the morning, and at night I do the LBRP, BRH, and MP (magick). Unfortunately, there is one very important aspect of my daily routine that is missing, and that's the specific magickal exercise that goes into preparing for evocation or any magickal work--namely concentration, visualization, etc. I know that continual work on psionics and ritual will help me develop my concentration and the like, but this will not necessarily help me specifically for magick or evocation. I really, really like the curriculum laid out in Konstantinos's "Summoning Spirits," for instance, and plan on using his exercises--but these exercises are geared toward evocation, unlike chakra meditation or energy work. The thing is, I would likely need to replace my morning psi work with these magickal exercises. This frightens me, because I feel that this would almost completely remove psi from my life. Conversely, if I spend a lot of time working on psi and chakras, then I almost certainly would not have enough room to develop my mind for evocation.

Here are some of the questions on my mind:


  • Are the LBRP, BRH, and MP sufficient to work on keeping my chakras open and, therefore, to continue practicing psionics? Or are they too different from the usual psi methods of working my chakras and personal energy?
  • Can I somehow incorporate Konstantinos's magickal exercises (such as breathing and concentration) into my morning psi work? This seems difficult to me not because it'd take up too much time, but because it would really ruin my focus to have my spirituality strewn about like that. It's like eating two small meals for breakfast, which seems redundant and messy.
  • In magick, do we learn to develop our astral sight and hearing by opening our third eye, or is that something else altogether? Could this help me figure out how to use psi meditations in magick?
There is really only one question here, though I really needed to flush out the details so you guys could understand my situation. The one question is, for those of you who practice both magick and psi: How do you incorporate magick and psi into your life without conflict of interest or too much time/energy consumption?

So many thanks in advance. I really appreciate any insight anyone can give.

Namaste,
Genostar

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Original post: ChaosTech

Go to the website below and download Initiation into Hermetics. It will answer many of your questions. It's an older book wrote by a magician named Franz Bardon. He mixed psionics with Hermeticism (which is a big part of CM as you probably know) quite well, and should give you not only raw techniques but ideas on what you can personally come up with as well.

http://bardon.freespeechsite.com/


As far as energy burnout goes, let yourself be the judge of that, as it's your mental/emotional (astral) energy as well as the etherical (ki, prana, lifeforce, spiritual) energy you are shaping with it, that you are taxing. Listen to yourself and you will know what is overdoing it.

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Original post: Genostar

ChaosTech, thanks. It's funny that you bring up Bardon because just a few days ago I was starting to read "Initiation into Hermetics." (You can imagine that it's been recommended many times before, for good reason.) I haven't read it all the way through however, the reason being that I was afraid of it pulling me into a curriculum that didn't seem to involve any of the ritual magick with which I feel so comfortable and love. For instance, I was immediately turned off when I didn't see the LBRP anywhere in there or in "The Practice of Magical Evocation."

But I have a misconception about Hermeticism clearly!

I'll take a look at it. In fact, now that I'm actually writing out the reason why I didn't finish the book, I realize how foolish it is of me, so I'll change my mind and go through it.

Thanks!

Any other comments would be absolutely wonderful!

Namaste,
Genostar

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Original post: ChaosTech

Hermeticism is a huge part of trational Ceremonial Magick. As much so as Jewish Mysticism, Arabic, and Christian influences (I could say paganism and specificly Hellenistic schools of thought as well, although all these more recent influences already have these absorbed elements).

Bardon in that book basicly has taken Alchemy (Hermetic symbolism), and applied it to the human psyche not as a way for just spiritual growth like Psychological Alchemy, but for developing psychic abilities as well.

The reason why so many have probably reccomended it to you before was that it is a very sound system psychologically which is where psychic abilities reside in, that being the psyche.

Symbols create order within the mind (psyche), to harness it's normally active as well as hidden (occult) sides. Bardon's system is by far the only symbolic system to develop psionic powers, but as I said it's well put together. Being a Chaote myself, I personally use it as a framework for developing my own personalized symbolic system (for the magickal/psychic side of my psyche), as it's as nicely balanced as Peter Carroll's Alphabet of Desire, but the traditional Heremetic symbolism isn't my thing, so I often replace it's symbolism with my own symbolism of the same meaning but more comfortable and personalized to me. The results are always the same. As symbols are symbols, and mean nothing except what you ascribe to them.

The reason I even mention this is so that if you are having trouble identifying with his symbolism, don't hesitate to personalize it, and even expand upon it, but be sure you understand his symbolism completely and the inner working of his techniques before you do this (which isn't hard, just remember that Hermetic symbology comes from the Hellenic religions it was created from, as well as later Hebrew/Arabic/Christian influences, as well as aristotelian natural philosophy). Common sense is usualy enough to decode it though, as most all symbolic systems come from nature, weither religious, mystical, or not.


Have fun and don't get obsessed with those fluid condensers of his. They are nothing but Hermeticised simple Shamanic/Witchcraft potions. I only mention this as some people get confused on these, when they are the same thing as charging herbs in Magickal Herbalism.

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Original post: Genostar

Hey, I just posted something relevant to this thread in the Off - Topic forum:
http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?p=67098

Thanks for the info, ChaosTech.

I'm considering just dropping all of my rituals and psionics as I've been doing them and throwing myself into a curriculum--not necessarily Bardon's, though as I read more of Initiation into Hermetics, the more I'm thinking that this might be for me. I'm in such a rush to get results ("must practice making psiballs ... must practice telepathy ... must do the LBRP ... must do, must do, must do ..."). I want to go back to the basics and start from a relatively clean slate, because at any rate, there is one thing important to both psionics and magick (including evocation), and that is the amount of mental, psychic, and physical exercise that goes into preparation for both. I feel that a curriculum like Bardon's would be a wonderful way of helping me to slow down, take a breath, and prepare simultaneously for developing psionic skills as well as for evocation.

What do you think, ChaosTech? Your opinion is honored and appreciated.

Thanks!

Namaste,
Genostar

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Original post: ChaosTech

As the old saying goes "why do anything at all if you don't do it right?"

In other words, if you feel you need a clean slate and want to start over, then do what thou will my friend. Magick is personal, it's all about you.

Just don't get all perfectionist when it comes to your magickal practice. This can and will drive you insane. Strive for whatever amount of practice/development you feel comfortable with, but don't over do it to the point where it becomes a major pain in the ass. Disciplen in magick/psi is a good thing, obsession is not (which is what perfectionism is part of).

Also, don't try to be(come) some super powerful high magician to fast. You miss the whole point of magick/psi if you don't enjoy it and have time to learn from it. Infact you would be wise if you have not already to throw away concepts of inferiority and superiority (hierarchial), as they are useless in magick/psi, as the are highly egotistical and will not only rob you of experience, but be a major obsticle on your personal path of magick/psi.

You are talking to an expert on these things. :lol: I have learned the hard way.


Also as far as your Tarot reading on that thread. Aie, learning how to believe in oneself including one's choices (including path), can be a real pain. Stay humble, don't worry about your doubt or faith, and just do what you do. You will learn from your success as well as mistakes like everyone else here. If you get in trouble though magickally/psychicly, call upon Divine help or if you are an atheist, or just uncomfortable with Deific Magick, call upon your higher self, and you will be fine. I know this from hard learned experience as well. :lol:

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Original post: Genostar

[QUOTE=ChaosTech]As the old saying goes "why do anything at all if you don't do it right?"

In other words, if you feel you need a clean slate and want to start over, then do what thou will my friend. Magick is personal, it's all about you.[/QUOTE] *hug*

Awesome!

[QUOTE=ChaosTech]Just don't get all perfectionist when it comes to your magickal practice. This can and will drive you insane. Strive for whatever amount of practice/development you feel comfortable with, but don't over do it to the point where it becomes a major pain in the ass. Disciplen in magick/psi is a good thing, obsession is not (which is what perfectionism is part of).[/QUOTE] You know, I learned this the hard way. I started training relatively recently, but still for a substantial three- to four-month period starting this year, and I burned out so fast. I also hated every moment of it. I felt like I was fulfilling a duty to some invisible, abstract force whom I could never find.

I'm learning to be comfortable with my practice and let it become more of a habit than obligation, in the sense that eating or breathing are habits and, while necessary, there is no one who would call them "obligations." In fact, once I've been able to let myself eat, breathe, or exercise comfortably and habitually, I find that I learn to truly enjoy them.

(I wasn't saying anything you don't know, ChaosTech. I think that was for me! :D)

So, yes, I will not be a perfectionist. -grin-

[QUOTE=ChaosTech]Also, don't try to be(come) some super powerful high magician to fast. You miss the whole point of magick/psi if you don't enjoy it and have time to learn from it. Infact you would be wise if you have not already to throw away concepts of inferiority and superiority (hierarchial), as they are useless in magick/psi, as the are highly egotistical and will not only rob you of experience, but be a major obsticle on your personal path of magick/psi.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I'm learning to be okay with this too. Yay!

[QUOTE=ChaosTech]You are talking to an expert on these things. :lol: I have learned the hard way.[/QUOTE] And now I vicariously have learned that lesson. Now that's magick!

[QUOTE=ChaosTech]Also as far as your Tarot reading on that thread. Aie, learning how to believe in oneself including one's choices (including path), can be a real pain. Stay humble, don't worry about your doubt or faith, and just do what you do. You will learn from your success as well as mistakes like everyone else here. If you get in trouble though magickally/psychicly, call upon Divine help or if you are an atheist, or just uncomfortable with Deific Magick, call upon your higher self, and you will be fine. I know this from hard learned experience as well. :lol:[/QUOTE] Hahah, awesome. Thank you so much ChaosTech!

Now I'm excited, and now I feel good.

Namaste,
Genostar

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Original post: ChaosTech

Have fun, and I'm glad I could help. :)


Also I wanted to say, I commend you on being a Christian Mystic/Magi. Religions make so much more sense in their mystical forms. Which interestingly enough is present in all religions. Too bad more people wouldn't take the time to actually think about what they believe in (mysticism), than just believe blindly (mass religion).


Take care,
-ChaosTech

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Original post: Genostar

[QUOTE=ChaosTech]Have fun, and I'm glad I could help. :)


Also I wanted to say, I commend you on being a Christian Mystic/Magi. Religions make so much more sense in their mystical forms. Which interestingly enough is present in all religions. Too bad more people wouldn't take the time to actually think about what they believe in (mysticism), than just believe blindly (mass religion).


Take care,
-ChaosTech[/QUOTE] Thanks! You know, I grew up Protestant, and I never associated it with magick, mysticism, or anything "New Age" (I said). But now that I understand that religion does make so much more sense in its mystical form, I can't see how anyone can miss it! When I read the Gospels and the words of Jesus now, all I see is mysticism.

A fellow Christian friend of mine, who isn't explicitly a mystic or magus, told me that the reason why he chose the religion of his childhood--as I did--is because, when he stopped being Christian a while back, he started to see religion for what it is, which is a tool for personal development, enlightenment, and self-discovery. And, he said, when one sees it like that, you appreciate it more. You learn to see it as a tool among many, but a powerful tool nonetheless. He said, "Christianity didn't have to be some trumped-up notion of the one true system for me to follow it. It just has to work. And for me, it does, as I'm sure other things work for other people." That to me is true religion.

Namaste,
Genostar

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Original post: Genostar

[QUOTE=Genostar]I'm considering just dropping all of my rituals and psionics as I've been doing them and throwing myself into a curriculum--not necessarily Bardon's, though as I read more of Initiation into Hermetics, the more I'm thinking that this might be for me. I'm in such a rush to get results ("must practice making psiballs ... must practice telepathy ... must do the LBRP ... must do, must do, must do ..."). I want to go back to the basics and start from a relatively clean slate, because at any rate, there is one thing important to both psionics and magick (including evocation), and that is the amount of mental, psychic, and physical exercise that goes into preparation for both. I feel that a curriculum like Bardon's would be a wonderful way of helping me to slow down, take a breath, and prepare simultaneously for developing psionic skills as well as for evocation.[/QUOTE] Actually, on this note, can anyone recommend any books that have curricula on fundamentals like Bardon's? I don't know if IIH appeals to me too much, but I'm looking for other recommendations. I'd like to try a curriculum that I can work on regularly, without taking too long to "see results." That is, I believe an important part of making progress is being able to have some sort of tactile feedback, some way of seeing that you are actually making progress; I have dropped so many practices simply because I didn't see that I was advancing at all. I was thinking of just trying all of the training exercises in Konstantinos's "Summoning Spirits" but I'm wondering if it is way too cursory. Also, the curriculum should specifically help me develop my mental, psychic, and possibly even physical faculties, so that I can simultaneously work on developing psionic skills as well as preparing for evocation.

When I first started with magick, I used Kraig's "Modern Magick," but have since placed it back onto my bookshelf. Besides, MM doesn't really help with psionics.

I'm thinking of reading some more through Bardon's book to see if I can't tweak it for personal use.

Thanks.

Genostar

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Original post: Sjet

did you ever relise that psi IS magick? Your mind is capable of unbeleivable things, so if you did just magick, that would also be psionics, summoning spirits, creating fire, healing, causing death, everything is psionics, its just a different form of psionics but it still comes from the mind. A staff would be something to help focus your mind immensly, such as pointing it at something, or such, that may be most likely why wizards of the old age carried staff's, but it all comes from the mind, and therefore, psi...

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Original post: Genostar

[QUOTE=Sjet]did you ever relise that psi IS magick? Your mind is capable of unbeleivable things, so if you did just magick, that would also be psionics, summoning spirits, creating fire, healing, causing death, everything is psionics, its just a different form of psionics but it still comes from the mind. A staff would be something to help focus your mind immensly, such as pointing it at something, or such, that may be most likely why wizards of the old age carried staff's, but it all comes from the mind, and therefore, psi...[/QUOTE] Yes, yes. :)

I hoped that by my first post, and the description of my background therein, that when I make a distinction between psi and magick, I use "magick" to refer specifically to Western, Hermetic, Qabalistic ceremonial magick, and not magick in its most general form (because one could say that everything we do is magick). I'm well aware that psi is in fact magick-in-general, but my dilemma stems from a desire to reconcile the Psionic system of magick and the Ceremonial Magick system of magick.

It does not suffice for myself to say, "It is all energy and the mind in the end," because I still believe that although ultimately we should come up with our own system, when we are young we should follow a system that has been well-tread and well-recommended by many others, because you wouldn't ask a kindergartener learning arithmetic to come up with his or her own differential equations to solve a mechanics problem: that's all nonsensical at the beginning.

Let's start easy.

The structure of the atom is nothing like what they teach you in elementary school (a nucleus of protons and neutrons surrounded by orbiting electrons; this is called the Bohr model of the atom). Quantum mechanics gives us a very different and more accurate picture. So why do we still teach the Bohr model? Because it is much easier to grasp. It is simply a symbol for what is. But I wouldn't expect anyone in elementary school to understand the true model--in fact, I barely did!

If these systems are like training wheels, then let us use training wheels that are all the same size on the same bike! That doesn't mean we can't customize them, even to a small degree at the beginning, but I'm not yet at a point where I can say, "Psi is magick, and ceremonial is magick, so that's all I need to know."

Many thanks for your comments, Sjet.

Namaste,
Genostar

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Original post: Nero

I have been working on much what you have been talking about. I completly recommend you try out I AM's grounding exercise. Try it and see. It should work well in what you are doing.

http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=7715

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